Run away or Die. What problem with that?
You have no problem with the reverse being fine...
I wonder how CW's would feel if their Ice Knife damage was nerfed 60% and was switched so it could be blocked or avoided? Oh the reverse is fine though? See what I did there?
Oh BTW they can open up with Ice Knife to nuke 80% of my health, and SE you have to wait till someone is almost dead to even think about using it.
But hey I am not starting threads QQ'ing about it.
I wonder how CW's would feel if their Ice Knife damage was nerfed 60% and was switched so it could be blocked or avoided? Oh the reverse is fine though? See what I did there?
Oh BTW they can open up with Ice Knife to nuke 80% of my health, and SE you have to wait till someone is almost dead to even think about using it.
But hey I am not starting threads QQ'ing about it.
IDK, you'd have to ask a PvP CW about that.
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thread highlights (from reading the posts):
People do not wish for a nerf but a proper counter to perma-sealth builds.
Atleast that's what I am understanding from those posts
True perma-stealth builds are very, very hard to make. You have to pump INT, keep your distance, and be amazingly precise on your rotation.
Most of the stealth builds you see are pseudo-stealth builds. Mine sure is. I hit stealth, then Shadow Strike, then B&S, and top it off with a Smoke Bomb (Visible), and two dodges (visible), back to stealth. But there are so many things that can and do go wrong. I hit the wrong button, someone hits me with a AOE KD, a wizard hits me with EF from a distance when I'm visible, another rogue drops a Smoke Bomb, etc. It's never perfect.
That all being said, there are ways to deal with Stealth. GWF and GF, if they see my shimmer and get me in a KD rotation, I'm out.
Run away or Die. What problem with that?
You have no problem with the reverse being fine...
There's a huge amount of difference between a rogue using a stealth mechanic with a cooldown and a ranged attack with limited charges, and a CW using at-wills with no such issues.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I don't know damage-wise, I think basically the damage is fine, just that it scales way out of proportion with certain gear. That could be more fine-tuned without affecting base mechanics or general gear too much.
I think if CoS does damage, the TR should be as visible to the other player the same way as when he's hitting from melee range..
This is less appealing. I already sort of hate how visible stealthed characters are in PvP. I can't name the number of times I've been swinging away at someone while in stealth, just for them to look right at me and start hitting me back. Seems like it defeats the purpose, honestly. That combined with the fact that Lurker's Assault stops working the second you're stunned, and fighting at melee can be a real hassle. Fun though.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I wonder how CW's would feel if their Ice Knife damage was nerfed 60% and was switched so it could be blocked or avoided? Oh the reverse is fine though? See what I did there?
Oh BTW they can open up with Ice Knife to nuke 80% of my health, and SE you have to wait till someone is almost dead to even think about using it.
But hey I am not starting threads QQ'ing about it.
Ice knife can be blocked and dodged...
And to get that dmg they have to do RoE twice otherwise the Ice knife is a waste dmg wise.
This is less appealing. I already sort of hate how visible stealthed characters are in PvP. I can't name the number of times I've been swinging away at someone while in stealth, just for them to look right at me and start hitting me back. Seems like it defeats the purpose, honestly. That combined with the fact that Lurker's Assault stops working the second you're stunned, and fighting at melee can be a real hassle. Fun though.
If the proc-rate and scaling on every hit are too much, maybe that can be tweaked, I dunno.
And I was frustrated at first too when I was happily stealth strolling along when I got a huge smack in the face. The frustrating part, for me anyway, was not knowing when my stealth was down and I could be seen. The thing is though, when playing against TR's it does make sense. And it's kind of the same frustration too
It's just not the same as invisibility, it really is stealth. And when I start slashing into somebody...that should be less stealthy than skulking about.
I do agree that too many effects are messing with stealth, it's so hard to miss that big red cross running around.
0
nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
More insults. Please save me the trouble of reporting you, and just leave the thread if you cannot behave in a mature manner.
I've made several points in this thread and others, you've just made it clear than you have no intention of addressing them. And you continue to show your lack of an argument with your baseless speculation and accusations. Your deduction is wrong and pointless. My rogue is an Executioner, not a permanent-stealth. I rarely use Clouds of Steel, and when I do, it's usually because there's an AoE surrounding a capture node and there's no other way for me to dish out damage until it evaporates.
At the end of the day, you're going to accuse anyone who disagrees with you as being a "fanboy" or "mediocre player who needs the build", so what's the point of this conversation? What facts have you brought up? What rebuttals to my claims have you offered? You've provided nothing to argue against except insults and accusations.
Here are some actual facts: The vast majority of these complaints are from people who don't know what they're talking about. They are clearly describing encounters with Executioner rogues using stealth, and not the perma-stealth build they are criticizing. So yes, they are ignorant of the class and how it works. Otherwise they would know that the damage output for perma-stealth builds are extremely low, because the build prioritising recovery and INT over power/armor pen and crit. The only damage-dealing feats the build has, are all relating to dealing damage within stealth and at-wills. Lashing blade is useless in this build, as our Dailies such as Shocking Execution and Bloodbath. The only time if which this build does acceptable damage is with At-Will attacks, and it still isn't enough to provide the types of damage you people are describing. What's actually happening is that you're simply being killed in stealth by Executioner rogues spamming CoS. And I do not personally see this as a problem. CoS has limited range and limited charges when compared to the proper ranged attack of the CW, and this is the balance of it. What is the point of making it less damaging on top of that? The main problem people seem to have is that it's used in stealth, which is nothing but whining, because this class is built around using At-Wills in stealth. In the end, these complaints are nothing more than people being upset that the class is working as intended. Cloud of Steel is about half as powerful as Sky Flourish, they both can be used in stealth without canceling it, and they both benefit from the same feats. The only difference is that it's a ranged attack, which rogues sorely need, considering they don't have the defensive capabilities to withstand AoE/stuns for very long.
No, I don't think there's a problem with CoS as it works currently. That's because I've played the rogue to completion several times, and understand the ins and outs of the class. I know it's limitations and strengths, and I know how to best utilize it to accomplish its role in PvE and PvP. The rogue is single-target DPS, and all of his attacks should be high-damaging. I'm not disagreeing with you because I lack skill or knowledge. I'm disagreeing with you because what you're saying simply isn't true or meaningful.
Don't bother responding. I already know, "blah blah man touched you, blah blah rogue fanboy", I'm not interested. I'd be happy to hear any salient arguments from other people in this thread that are actually interested in discussing this intelligently.
Wow, tl;dr it all.. but skimming over it your "rebuttal" to my comment is almost something I didn't see coming. The long winded part that I didn't read all of makes me I already said you're invoking the statement of "I'm right and you're wrong in all your posts regardless of other peoples points." And you turn it around on me by saying I'm wrong (almost didn't see that one coming!) and I'm the one saying other people are wrong and I'm right. This build is going under the knife despite you and your fellow misguided compadres best efforts to downplay the actual effectiveness..
and I'm right you're wrong... or wait are you're right I'm wrong and anybody else that plays an end game rogue that doesn't agree with you doesn't know ****.. Oh well, keep mouth breathing and write me another novel to tl;dr.
IDK i am waiting for a rogue fanboi to address the question that has been raised Perma stealth rogues are they a reasonable build.
Im not talking about just about a COS in stealth.
The problem is the word perma which implies that a rogue can permanently be stealthed. The short answer is yes, however; this does not mean that the rogue can dish out massive damage, they can't. But that doesn't stop players who are unaware of the details from stopping there and complaining about it. A rogue can arrange their powers in a way that allows them to remain stealthed and once stealth ends to actually pop back in but their damage takes a huge hit and it takes them for ever to kill anything with this method.
But that is not even the whole issue that the whiners don't like. They simply do not like a character who is "invisible". Almost every single pvp game that has a stealth character eventually get's nerfed to the point that they remove stealth completely so the devs don't have to constantly hear crying from the whiners. I am more than certain they will eventually remove stealth from the rogue completely but neglect to actually make up for this loss with redoing over half of the rogues powers. It will make the class unplayable but at least the crying will stop for a short time until the gwfs and gfs start in on the cw nerfing.
http://youtu.be/hQwWaWFjd0Y?t=1m
This is pretty much how you counter it.
Well, its what works for me on cleric(I just die moments later because you know, POS class that can't even self heal).
I think they should just ban TR's from being playable. Or completely remove their stealth. Then, when people move on to another class to demand the nerfbat on, they can ban that or completely remove that classes main edge from the game. Then, they can add Panda's as a race, and force everyone to reroll as a Kung Fu Panda Monk for the sake of balance.
IDK i am waiting for a rogue fanboi to address the question that has been raised Perma stealth rogues are they a reasonable build.
Im not talking about just about a COS in stealth.
I take it if you don't like the answer you'll resort to accuse people of being fanboiz....
But yes, it's a reasonable build...more stealth=less damage. It's that simple. You don't need to lump the Saboteur perma-stealth and the Executioners insane crit rate together to come up with some fictional uberTR you can cry 'nerf' about.
I take it if you don't like the answer you'll resort to accuse people of being fanboiz....
But yes, it's a reasonable build...more stealth=less damage. It's that simple. You don't need to lump the Saboteur perma-stealth and the Executioners insane crit rate together to come up with some fictional uberTR you can cry 'nerf' about.
Seriously full tenes perma stealth is a reasonable build. You so say low damage i say you are wrong having faced well geared perma rogues. They are a serious harrasser build. One that cant be seen and chews through your health and forces you away.
Dont forget each COS i chew increases the damage. Now i have left they own the cap and turn to the next and the next and the next.
I dont think youve seen a real one. I dont think youve seen a geared one. I think you underestimate my gear and my experience. I dont care about stealth i dont care about exe builds. A rogue that is constantly stealth AND can burn you down is just not a reasonable mechanic and yet you still defend it.
It's simply unbelievable that something can kill you without being counterable, because whatever you say starting hidden is already an enormous advantage. It's like being invulnerable AND dealing damage without having any risk of getting out of this invulnerability. The skill/build should give you higher burst and much much less defenses, IE you will get out of stealth after dealing more than 30% dmg or smth. This is the first game I've ever seen where a stealth class can hit and stay stealthed for such a long time. And people who cry should know that rogues vulnerabilities are mostly because they can abuse this iwin combo.
Defending this is just plain denial.
Originally Posted by kashimaa1
The funny thing is, you dont realy need INT to achieve perma stealth :-)
Originally Posted by kevinf08
Pretty much this.
You don't need to sacrifice stats to achieve perm stealth, you do need to sacrifice 2 encounter slots for SS and bait and switch though.
Or at least that's my experience on my Str rogue with 1100 recovery.
When we talk about "Perma-Stealth", that means your rogue can stay in stealth 100% of the time (as long as theres a target to use Shadow Strike) and not be seen.
The reason why you would need INT is because you wont have enough recovery to have a high enough Recharge Speed to complete the Perma-Stealth rotation, alternating between "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" while one is on cool down the other should be ready in time to refill stealth before stealth runs out, in doing so you'll need 30% recharge speed.
Without it, kevinf08's rogues perma stealth rotation would have to be...
1. In Stealth
2. Shadow Strike
3. Bait and Switch
4. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
"Use Lurker's Assault"
5. Shadow Strike
6. Bait and Switch
7. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
However, with the 30% recovery. You would do a different rotation
1. In Stealth
2. Bait and Switch
3. Shadow Strike
4. Bait and Switch
5. Shadow Strike
x. continue rotation endlessly, no need for Lurker's Assault
Without 30% recharge speed and if you'd try this rotation, you'll just stop after the first Shadow Strike (that is why you'd use Shadow Strike first if you don't have enough recharge speed)
*By focusing on INT and Recovery, you wont see a single high amount of damage, the damage comes from accumulated attacks, with Poisons, Nimble Blade Procs, Greater Tene Procs (if you have any), and Bonus damage from continued attacks from CoS, that is what makes the damage.
I think my best KDR was 28 kills and 0 deaths in a single match, the build isn't about one shotting an enemy then running away because TR's are squishy. It's about focusing on those who are squishy, targeting CW's and TR's, killing runners, as well as holding the enemies capture point, keeping it contested while 3-4 enemies try to find you (doing so makes capturing middle point a lot easier for your team), with the build you can 1v1 and 1v2 with no problems that's why the enemy team would have to send 3+ or the whole team to take you out.
Discuss. Personally i cant wait for Pink to come defend this. Low damage lol. All the oposition does is run from him. What else can you do. He burns through their health.
Seriously full tenes perma stealth is a reasonable build. You so say low damage i say you are wrong having faced well geared perma rogues. They are a serious harrasser build. One that cant be seen and chews through your health and forces you away.
Dont forget each COS i chew increases the damage. Now i have left they own the cap and turn to the next and the next and the next.
I dont think youve seen a real one. I dont think youve seen a geared one. I think you underestimate my gear and my experience. I dont care about stealth i dont care about exe builds. A rogue that is constantly stealth AND can burn you down is just not a reasonable mechanic and yet you still defend it.
You just like to foam a bit more at the mouth, but that's alright.
Perma-stealth is NOT the problem... the problem is perma-stealth AND the way CoS is stacking with runepowers.
Now, good job patting yourself on the head, here, have a cookie.
It's simply unbelievable that something can kill you without being counterable, because whatever you say starting hidden is already an enormous advantage. It's like being invulnerable AND dealing damage without having any risk of getting out of this invulnerability. The skill/build should give you higher burst and much much less defenses, IE you will get out of stealth after dealing more than 30% dmg or smth. This is the first game I've ever seen where a stealth class can hit and stay stealthed for such a long time. And people who cry should know that rogues vulnerabilities are mostly because they can abuse this iwin combo.
Defending this is just plain denial.
It is counterable. AOEs, getting close to see their shimmer and lock them into a KD/Stun rotation.
Can someone post how much a true perma-stealth with full tene's setup would cost in AD and/or real world dollars? (here is a hint: its a @#$% load.) If you spent that much money on your toon, you'd be face rolling people too. The highest level enchantments have the potential to make several builds across several classes absolutely insane. Stop calling for a class Nerf because the guy with the million dollar toon just dominated you...
If I am not mistaken, most of the greater enchantments are about million AD (or more), and the Swashbuckling armor for a full set is pretty pricey too. I think if you are lucky you can get a set for about 1.5 million AD on the cheap side. Ancient weapons are equally pricey... So on the cheap side I am guessing if you spent about 7 million AD you might get these type of insane rogues.
Can someone post how much a true perma-stealth with full tene's setup would cost in AD and/or real world dollars? (here is a hint: its a @#$% load.) If you spent that much money on your toon, you'd be face rolling people too. The highest level enchantments have the potential to make several builds across several classes absolutely insane. Stop calling for a class Nerf because the guy with the million dollar toon just dominated you...
they should be paired against other toons equally geared up and not allowed in lower geared matches (unless they gear down)... this is why a ranking PvP system is needed, they would get into the high rated matches and could go for top positions on the charts even if they have to wait a long time for their matches or even schedule them (their alternative if they wish to PvP more is to rank and gear down), but in turn wouldn't be killing PvP for everyone else
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
so the problem is the enchantments and not the stealth cause you would have died either way
/thread
This.
Stealth + Cloud does damage to Wizards and only wizards - against every other class it's pittance damage. Unless you're loaded with the brokenly powerful stacking tenebrous enchants.
Can someone post how much a true perma-stealth with full tene's setup would cost in AD and/or real world dollars? (here is a hint: its a @#$% load.) If you spent that much money on your toon, you'd be face rolling people too. The highest level enchantments have the potential to make several builds across several classes absolutely insane. Stop calling for a class Nerf because the guy with the million dollar toon just dominated you...
There are two ways to get Perma-Stealth
1. Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike, stacking INT and Recovery (Safest play style)
2. Bait and Switch, Shadow Strike, Gloaming Cut, Sneaky Stabber. Does not require INT or Recovery, however it requires the player to be more aggressive to keep the Perma-Steath
I just did a price check on what you need for a perma-stealth build with tenes. (Not a true perma-stealth as it requires recovery gear instead, however it will be cheaper but will have less damage. With this set up you can be a very tanky rogue that has perma-stealth and lots of damage)
6 Offensive Slots = [Tenebrous Enchantment] (upgrade version of lesser) 2.1mil (350K each)
3 Defensive Slots = [Radiant Enchantment, Rank 7] 504K (168K each)
3 Utility Slots = None (not required as your already fast in stealth, slot it with dark if rich)
Armor = PvP Set (No AD Cost)
Weapon = PvP Weapons (No AD Cost)
Neck = [Cloak of the Erupting Volcano] 3.8K
Waist = [Grand Necromancer's Belt of Undeath] 4.4K
Ringx2 = [Ancient Priest's Ring of Burning Light] 30K (15K each)
Shirt = [Gemmed Exquisite Shirt] 340K
Pants = [Gemmed Exquisite Pants] 300K
Total Price = 3,282,200 AD (around 3.3mil)
Stats
Health:
+6760 from gear + enchantment
9% health from feat
Average rogues health 20K
Total average health: 29,168 (almost 30K health)
*Gear also has Defense and Deflection, tanky rogue.
*Use Gloaming Cut for Perma-Stealth (must be aggresive).
*Tene's Proc for 583 or more damage
Originally Posted by kashimaa1
The funny thing is, you dont realy need INT to achieve perma stealth :-)
Originally Posted by kevinf08
Pretty much this.
You don't need to sacrifice stats to achieve perm stealth, you do need to sacrifice 2 encounter slots for SS and bait and switch though.
Or at least that's my experience on my Str rogue with 1100 recovery.
When we talk about "Perma-Stealth", that means your rogue can stay in stealth 100% of the time (as long as theres a target to use Shadow Strike) and not be seen.
The reason why you would need INT is because you wont have enough recovery to have a high enough Recharge Speed to complete the Perma-Stealth rotation, alternating between "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" while one is on cool down the other should be ready in time to refill stealth before stealth runs out, in doing so you'll need 30% recharge speed.
Without it, kevinf08's rogues perma stealth rotation would have to be...
1. In Stealth
2. Shadow Strike
3. Bait and Switch
4. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
"Use Lurker's Assault"
5. Shadow Strike
6. Bait and Switch
7. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
However, with the 30% recovery. You would do a different rotation
1. In Stealth
2. Bait and Switch
3. Shadow Strike
4. Bait and Switch
5. Shadow Strike
x. continue rotation endlessly, no need for Lurker's Assault
Without 30% recharge speed and if you'd try this rotation, you'll just stop after the first Shadow Strike (that is why you'd use Shadow Strike first if you don't have enough recharge speed)
*By focusing on INT and Recovery, you wont see a single high amount of damage, the damage comes from accumulated attacks, with Poisons, Nimble Blade Procs, Greater Tene Procs (if you have any), and Bonus damage from continued attacks from CoS, that is what makes the damage.
I think my best KDR was 28 kills and 0 deaths in a single match, the build isn't about one shotting an enemy then running away because TR's are squishy. It's about focusing on those who are squishy, targeting CW's and TR's, killing runners, as well as holding the enemies capture point, keeping it contested while 3-4 enemies try to find you (doing so makes capturing middle point a lot easier for your team), with the build you can 1v1 and 1v2 with no problems that's why the enemy team would have to send 3+ or the whole team to take you out.
Discuss. Personally i cant wait for Pink to come defend this. Low damage lol. All the oposition does is run from him. What else can you do. He burns through their health.
oh wow, crazy video.... nerf nerf nerf please
0
nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm halfway tempted to roll a rogue with this spec/build just to get in on a few lawlz before the nerfhammer comes down on it.
Comments
I wonder how CW's would feel if their Ice Knife damage was nerfed 60% and was switched so it could be blocked or avoided? Oh the reverse is fine though? See what I did there?
Oh BTW they can open up with Ice Knife to nuke 80% of my health, and SE you have to wait till someone is almost dead to even think about using it.
But hey I am not starting threads QQ'ing about it.
True perma-stealth builds are very, very hard to make. You have to pump INT, keep your distance, and be amazingly precise on your rotation.
Most of the stealth builds you see are pseudo-stealth builds. Mine sure is. I hit stealth, then Shadow Strike, then B&S, and top it off with a Smoke Bomb (Visible), and two dodges (visible), back to stealth. But there are so many things that can and do go wrong. I hit the wrong button, someone hits me with a AOE KD, a wizard hits me with EF from a distance when I'm visible, another rogue drops a Smoke Bomb, etc. It's never perfect.
That all being said, there are ways to deal with Stealth. GWF and GF, if they see my shimmer and get me in a KD rotation, I'm out.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
There's a huge amount of difference between a rogue using a stealth mechanic with a cooldown and a ranged attack with limited charges, and a CW using at-wills with no such issues.
This is a very sensible suggestion.
This is less appealing. I already sort of hate how visible stealthed characters are in PvP. I can't name the number of times I've been swinging away at someone while in stealth, just for them to look right at me and start hitting me back. Seems like it defeats the purpose, honestly. That combined with the fact that Lurker's Assault stops working the second you're stunned, and fighting at melee can be a real hassle. Fun though.
Ice knife can be blocked and dodged...
And to get that dmg they have to do RoE twice otherwise the Ice knife is a waste dmg wise.
If the proc-rate and scaling on every hit are too much, maybe that can be tweaked, I dunno.
And I was frustrated at first too when I was happily stealth strolling along when I got a huge smack in the face. The frustrating part, for me anyway, was not knowing when my stealth was down and I could be seen. The thing is though, when playing against TR's it does make sense. And it's kind of the same frustration too
It's just not the same as invisibility, it really is stealth. And when I start slashing into somebody...that should be less stealthy than skulking about.
I do agree that too many effects are messing with stealth, it's so hard to miss that big red cross running around.
Wow, tl;dr it all.. but skimming over it your "rebuttal" to my comment is almost something I didn't see coming. The long winded part that I didn't read all of makes me
and I'm right you're wrong... or wait are you're right I'm wrong and anybody else that plays an end game rogue that doesn't agree with you doesn't know ****.. Oh well, keep mouth breathing and write me another novel to tl;dr.
Im not talking about just about a COS in stealth.
The problem is the word perma which implies that a rogue can permanently be stealthed. The short answer is yes, however; this does not mean that the rogue can dish out massive damage, they can't. But that doesn't stop players who are unaware of the details from stopping there and complaining about it. A rogue can arrange their powers in a way that allows them to remain stealthed and once stealth ends to actually pop back in but their damage takes a huge hit and it takes them for ever to kill anything with this method.
But that is not even the whole issue that the whiners don't like. They simply do not like a character who is "invisible". Almost every single pvp game that has a stealth character eventually get's nerfed to the point that they remove stealth completely so the devs don't have to constantly hear crying from the whiners. I am more than certain they will eventually remove stealth from the rogue completely but neglect to actually make up for this loss with redoing over half of the rogues powers. It will make the class unplayable but at least the crying will stop for a short time until the gwfs and gfs start in on the cw nerfing.
that made me LOL so hard man xD
It's sad I bet a bunch of people clicking on that link don't even know who the original song he is basing his version off of.
I take it if you don't like the answer you'll resort to accuse people of being fanboiz....
But yes, it's a reasonable build...more stealth=less damage. It's that simple. You don't need to lump the Saboteur perma-stealth and the Executioners insane crit rate together to come up with some fictional uberTR you can cry 'nerf' about.
Seriously full tenes perma stealth is a reasonable build. You so say low damage i say you are wrong having faced well geared perma rogues. They are a serious harrasser build. One that cant be seen and chews through your health and forces you away.
Dont forget each COS i chew increases the damage. Now i have left they own the cap and turn to the next and the next and the next.
I dont think youve seen a real one. I dont think youve seen a geared one. I think you underestimate my gear and my experience. I dont care about stealth i dont care about exe builds. A rogue that is constantly stealth AND can burn you down is just not a reasonable mechanic and yet you still defend it.
Defending this is just plain denial.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?355032-Rogue-builds-still-stealth-in-combat
Originally Posted by kashimaa1
The funny thing is, you dont realy need INT to achieve perma stealth :-)
Originally Posted by kevinf08
Pretty much this.
You don't need to sacrifice stats to achieve perm stealth, you do need to sacrifice 2 encounter slots for SS and bait and switch though.
Or at least that's my experience on my Str rogue with 1100 recovery.
When we talk about "Perma-Stealth", that means your rogue can stay in stealth 100% of the time (as long as theres a target to use Shadow Strike) and not be seen.
The reason why you would need INT is because you wont have enough recovery to have a high enough Recharge Speed to complete the Perma-Stealth rotation, alternating between "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" while one is on cool down the other should be ready in time to refill stealth before stealth runs out, in doing so you'll need 30% recharge speed.
Without it, kevinf08's rogues perma stealth rotation would have to be...
1. In Stealth
2. Shadow Strike
3. Bait and Switch
4. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
"Use Lurker's Assault"
5. Shadow Strike
6. Bait and Switch
7. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
However, with the 30% recovery. You would do a different rotation
1. In Stealth
2. Bait and Switch
3. Shadow Strike
4. Bait and Switch
5. Shadow Strike
x. continue rotation endlessly, no need for Lurker's Assault
Without 30% recharge speed and if you'd try this rotation, you'll just stop after the first Shadow Strike (that is why you'd use Shadow Strike first if you don't have enough recharge speed)
*By focusing on INT and Recovery, you wont see a single high amount of damage, the damage comes from accumulated attacks, with Poisons, Nimble Blade Procs, Greater Tene Procs (if you have any), and Bonus damage from continued attacks from CoS, that is what makes the damage.
I think my best KDR was 28 kills and 0 deaths in a single match, the build isn't about one shotting an enemy then running away because TR's are squishy. It's about focusing on those who are squishy, targeting CW's and TR's, killing runners, as well as holding the enemies capture point, keeping it contested while 3-4 enemies try to find you (doing so makes capturing middle point a lot easier for your team), with the build you can 1v1 and 1v2 with no problems that's why the enemy team would have to send 3+ or the whole team to take you out.
*my 2 cents*
Perma-Stealth PvP Montage video #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0
Discuss. Personally i cant wait for Pink to come defend this. Low damage lol. All the oposition does is run from him. What else can you do. He burns through their health.
You just like to foam a bit more at the mouth, but that's alright.
Perma-stealth is NOT the problem... the problem is perma-stealth AND the way CoS is stacking with runepowers.
Now, good job patting yourself on the head, here, have a cookie.
so the problem is the enchantments and not the stealth cause you would have died either way
/thread
It is counterable. AOEs, getting close to see their shimmer and lock them into a KD/Stun rotation.
It's really not that hard to do.
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they should be paired against other toons equally geared up and not allowed in lower geared matches (unless they gear down)... this is why a ranking PvP system is needed, they would get into the high rated matches and could go for top positions on the charts even if they have to wait a long time for their matches or even schedule them (their alternative if they wish to PvP more is to rank and gear down), but in turn wouldn't be killing PvP for everyone else
This.
Stealth + Cloud does damage to Wizards and only wizards - against every other class it's pittance damage. Unless you're loaded with the brokenly powerful stacking tenebrous enchants.
There are two ways to get Perma-Stealth
1. Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike, stacking INT and Recovery (Safest play style)
2. Bait and Switch, Shadow Strike, Gloaming Cut, Sneaky Stabber. Does not require INT or Recovery, however it requires the player to be more aggressive to keep the Perma-Steath
I just did a price check on what you need for a perma-stealth build with tenes. (Not a true perma-stealth as it requires recovery gear instead, however it will be cheaper but will have less damage. With this set up you can be a very tanky rogue that has perma-stealth and lots of damage)
6 Offensive Slots = [Tenebrous Enchantment] (upgrade version of lesser) 2.1mil (350K each)
3 Defensive Slots = [Radiant Enchantment, Rank 7] 504K (168K each)
3 Utility Slots = None (not required as your already fast in stealth, slot it with dark if rich)
Armor = PvP Set (No AD Cost)
Weapon = PvP Weapons (No AD Cost)
Neck = [Cloak of the Erupting Volcano] 3.8K
Waist = [Grand Necromancer's Belt of Undeath] 4.4K
Ringx2 = [Ancient Priest's Ring of Burning Light] 30K (15K each)
Shirt = [Gemmed Exquisite Shirt] 340K
Pants = [Gemmed Exquisite Pants] 300K
Total Price = 3,282,200 AD (around 3.3mil)
Stats
Health:
+6760 from gear + enchantment
9% health from feat
Average rogues health 20K
Total average health: 29,168 (almost 30K health)
*Gear also has Defense and Deflection, tanky rogue.
*Use Gloaming Cut for Perma-Stealth (must be aggresive).
*Tene's Proc for 583 or more damage
oh wow, crazy video.... nerf nerf nerf please