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Balance and Gameplay Update - post your feedback here!

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    devlinnedevlinne Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'm so happy with the patch! Omg my GWF is actually FUN to play now.
    I'm a pvper....and i LOVE the new changes. Thanks so much.
    PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
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    mordikaymordikay Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    By killing cleric you killed the game. Noone runs the harder T2 now and prices on AH skyrocket as we speak. It's great the GF and GWF can now get grps but it doesn't help much when you killed the only healing class in the game. Even before with 100% uptime on AS you still needed to dodge and block stuff. Now with the cleric nerf (that wasn't that great before patch) you just killed endgame.
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    shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hurry up and patch! lol, i wanna try the new changes.
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    rangurenranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2013
    they change the D&D from Dungeons and Dragons to Divide and Dominate (PvP Domination style) .... even open the Preview for "test the major patch" yet they shifted the update from June 20th to June 13th. hmmm ... why I wonder
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    mackehmackeh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The healing DCs do just isn't enough .. in fact it seems horrific.

    I really like all the other changes I've seen, and think they add a lot to the game. But please .. hotfix DCs or something, before they all roll GWF and we're left with more pug groups with no healers.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?347462-Cleric-healing-broken-since-new-patch
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    eggsneggsn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 69
    edited June 2013
    Overall I think the changes are good and makes sense for the most part. I'm glad that the devs are listening and a lot of changes are happening or being fixed! It's tough balancing act for sure. Here are my 3 comments:

    1. Gaunt is going to be challenging, people will most likely leave if they are in the loosing side. Not quite a fan of combining PVP and PVE like that though it is interesting. I'm curious if we're all going to have rezz effects for all phase 1 and 2 deaths?

    2. I'm a cleric. I picked it because I like the healing class and the Devoted Cleric video says healing is one of the biggest jobs of the DC. That being said, AS double stacking - I'm glad it's gone, it is OP and really a cheat! All the other nerf for the AS, that I think is worrisome. I'm seeing lots of posts from healer class lovers out there thinking cleric is now becoming useless. I see their point. Lack of burst healing have always been an issue for me since closed beta. I was happy when I got to try AS as I felt I can actually heal in dungeons with it but not in a pure healer priest kind of way. We already suck as semi-healers as it is until AS. AS is the only thing that made me feel useful in my class. Maybe the Devs think they would adjust people's expectations but that's not what's happening. People still expect good healing from DC and they should, not a player who's just there so they can save some pots.

    Would love to hear from a Dev who plays cleric, as their primary class, regarding this issue and talk to the clerics about play-ability in the tough epic dungeons. I could be wrong in my worries and I hope I am.

    3. Follow-up with #2 above is "righteousness". Why is this even here? The answer originally was pots and gold. Funny thing is it's very hard to kite massive amounts of mobs with a -40% to your own heal and using pots. I have to use stones, cold hard cash to do it even with good gear. Will the threat fix make this a non-issue? I hope so. Comments on this would be nice.
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    hit68hit68 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    hmmm i dot know where to start im a rogue lvl 60 in full epic t2 gear i got over1.5k def and deflect and see here is my problem when i started the game the rogue was said to be the top dmg dealer on 1 target it said the on game web paige and on forms but i see now its all a lie you cut the dmg by 60% of the best skill we got but what you dont look at is i have ben 1 hit by a gf witch is supposed to be the tank in the last 9 years of my game playing i have never seen a tank out dmg the dmg class same a gwf i have ben 1 hit by them to and what do you do you make them stronger and give them skills to heal them self that is what the healer is for so all your doing is making the rogue the worst class to play in pvp all a gf has to do is block till someone comes to help him same like today i ran 15 to 20 pvp matches and in one a gwf had 4 of us on him and could not kill him you talk about balance when you take something away from one side and put it on the other that is not a balance cause now the other side is stronger and the cw got the bad end of the deal to got some friends talking about leaving the game cause of what you did to the cw and the rogue skill to where we port behind ppl sucks because when we do port we r so close to them that the target icon still picks us up and they hit us with out having to turn around = fail if your going to keep are dmg this way then give us stuns we don't have any that realy stuns ppl all the ones we got only disables there skills but in short all your going to do is make ppl stop playing the rogue class or even leave game and it is one of the best games i have played in the last 9 years just hope your ideas don't kill it byby
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    wildswannwildswann Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Overall it doesn't seem so bad I play CW and DC.. pve so no comments on pvp. It requires some adjustment in mindset and play both individual and group and it will take a while and a lot of complaining for ppl to realise this. It's true clerics can no longer make tanks of any class and it's true you can no longer stand in aoe be healed through and not get burned. CWs are pretty much as good as they ever were once once you learn to deal with what was previously non exsistent aggro. What the changes do highlight most is just what a nightmare friendly targeting is.
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    lordvonkrauserlordvonkrauser Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    My main is a Devoted Cleric , and i have to say , im really , really happy with the changes. The threat issue for us is gone, i did about 10 epic runs tonight and i cant believe i dont have to keep running for my life around the room anymore!! Now i can really focus on healing ppl. the AS change is ok for me too , i had to change a little the way i heal , but in my opinion for better.

    In this patch we got A LOT of amazing changes!!
    Thank you Cryptic , for creating and keep improving this amazing game!!!

    Regards
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    mhblis1mhblis1 Member Posts: 167 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I like what youve done now all you need to do is add mechanics to the dungeons that actually require you to do more than move out of a big red circle. As it stands GF still aren't needed.

    Right now having run a number of DDs after the patch I've really seen just how poorly some people play their class because of previous AS stacking. So many people are going to need to learn to use pots and to dodge that I can see why people hate DC's right now. On the flip side running with my normal group was great and we all felt the boost in control from the GWF and GF. Still at the end of the night we all still felt a second CW or TR could have done the job just as well as the GF. IT's the mechanics of the fights not the class.
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    mackehmackeh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Thanks to your DC changes, my guild lost 3 awesome healers who were between 103 and 11.6 gear score (some re-rolling, some quitting altogether because they now feel incapable to heal .. terrific). Thanks for destroying our fun with your ridiculous DC changes, or not balancing the damage well to make it a challenge, but doable. Christ knows why I'm bothering to type this at all .. it's not like you guys couldn't have tested it and found it out for yourselves? Or are we, the community, going to always be doing your testing for you at every stage of the laborious journey to 'acceptable'? I suppose professionalism went out in a past rebalancing exercise of idiocy ..

    There's so much good about the game, I mean that, and so much good about these recent changes .. but fundamentally you've ballsed it up. Grats.
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    shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    GF, especially the protector tree builds needs a lot more work done. The defense of a conqueror should not be nearly as close to a protector.

    So far, good job on ray of enfeeblement nerf, it was ridiculous to be dotted for 5k+ dps. Frankly i dont see much of a point nerfing the rogue ulti as its an ulti and can only be used once after a long time. Instead the dps of their other skills should have been nerfed.
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    damianessdamianess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 283 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    shajib1234 wrote: »
    GF, especially the protector tree builds needs a lot more work done. The defense of a conqueror should not be nearly as close to a protector.

    So far, good job on ray of enfeeblement nerf, it was ridiculous to be dotted for 5k+ dps. Frankly i dont see much of a point nerfing the rogue ulti as its an ulti and can only be used once after a long time. Instead the dps of their other skills should have been nerfed.

    Duelist's furry got nerfed big time.
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    savagedeaconsavagedeacon Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    tapp3r wrote: »
    The nerf on Trickster Rogues and Control Wizards aren't big enough in PvP aspects. They'll still be overpowered.

    In no MMO game should an attack like Daze be an AoE attack and last for like 3 seconds. Especially as there's no PvP trinkets or anything like that.
    Instead of nerfing the rogue why don't you cancel the class wholly? because like it is now is totally useless. And for those that cry for the DC. I have a rogue with a lvl 60 purple weapon and i happened to have dropped to me a lvl 56 green Devoted Cleric weapon. Guess what ? The Cleric weapon added more power and had more dps than my rogue's. Something is seriously wrong when a healer can outdamage a dps class
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    morsitansmorsitans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,284 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Um. Don't rogues get two weapons, though? I don't know, I've not played them, but every single dagger I've ever found has had roughly half the damage of an equivalent weapon from any other class.
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    bushitsubushitsu Member Posts: 2
    edited June 2013
    ReaI feel like my cleric is after as nerf useless. I tried two t2 dungeons after patch and everything what i was suposed to do was lure adds and kite them all the time, noone cared if there is as or no on the ground. So i have to run circles all boss fight? Devs please did u ever tried play any your dungeon with cleric? Why cant do dps dmg warriors hold mobs from us? Thats not about astral shield. i dont care if its 10 or 15 s i eat arround 20-30 pots one boss fight so actualy i dont care if all party does the same because i dont use any healing ability on myself. Fix game mechanic no skills. Sorry for bad english thanks if u read it.
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    rangahatetemangorangahatetemango Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Too much adds in dungeons ! cant really enjoy the boss fight , its like we are fighting a endless horde of monsters !
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    shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I find the nerf of cw against rogues very imbalanced. The most important cw spell which is ray of enfeeblement, allowed it to take down rogues fast when they come very close to them, got heavily nerfed. A rogue can take out 3/4 of a cw life in 1 hit using lashing blade and can finish the cw off using impossible to catch. If cw is to be nerfed so heavily, rogues ought to be heavily nerfed too.

    For any dnd game, the hardest hitting character is always the wizard, not rogues. Wizards are meant to be glass cannons. Rogues are meant to do moderate amount of damage, but with plenty of tricks.
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    khelchacwkhelchacw Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You can adjust the Class which you think lack of power/DPS or what ever you want to call it... but dont nerf any class... Bring back the OLD Ray Of Enfeeblement or more CW will quit the game...
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    shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The fact is it is very difficult for a cw to beat a rogue with descent skills now, even if the rogue isnt heavily geared. Infact it takes bout 2-3 hits to take down a cw now. Like i said before cw is supposed to have the highest dps not rogues.
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    noniussnoniuss Member Posts: 43
    edited June 2013
    good job on nerfing the cw's...
    Rogues can still kill me in 5 seconds, i dont really see the point of nerfing their lashing strike dmg from 35k to 20k...yeah big deal since i have around only 24-26k hp, lol.

    GWF, GF and TR now have undoubtedly better CC (at least 1v1) capabilities in PvP than CONTROL (emphasis on that) Wizards. Seems Legit. They can lock me down from full HP to 0 in no time while i only can run around like headless chicken without any chances for escape and unable to use any skills.

    GWF are no so OP compared with CW's - if i see one even looking my way i'm runing away fast. Why? Since they can win 1v2 CW's easily now. Fair, right? I mean several times today when engaging 2v1 on GWF's (me and a TR/GF) they either run away laughing at us while my CONTROL (emphasis on that again) powers are unable to stop or slow them down whatsoever, (Fun, isnt it?) Or they just kill both of us (especially if we are 2 CW's). Srsly, even GF's cant survive, let alone kill, 2 CW's. Ofc this doesnt happen all the time and depends on how good the GWF is, but it takes about 10-20 seconds to kill them now and if they are trying to run its certain that even if I succeed at killing them, their teammates will jump me by the time i'm done killing him.

    Okay, i realise that i am ranting like a rager, but i am upset with this patch. And no, its not about the nerfs - i would be ok with them (except eith RoE - it deals around 40-60% of damage it used to, the mitigation debuff is pathetic if it isnt used in TAB slot), as long as we would have actually have gotten any fixes for our skills/feats that are broken. Now, instead of creating more "balanced and varied" gameplay, they have simply nerfed CW's most popular setups hard, without creating anything viable to replace it. Ok, the class is not as unplayable as i feared it might turn out to be, but it's certainly less fun now - PvP is managable, if i have decent team, but PvE content is ridiculously hard and annoying (especially solo) - i've always been squishy and i was ok with that, but now it sucks balls - at the end-game areas the mobs are killing me easier and dealing more damage to me than other players in PvP. Seems legit.
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    mikemce101mikemce101 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    PLZ fix CW shield it is no longer effected by stacks of arcane mastery perm 13 sec cooldown and we now get more agro and the shield is a nice way of not being one shot all the time ps you owe me 32 kits xD
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    capainjfulsescapainjfulses Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Having gone through the rotations i normally do with my 5 characters (Foundry, PVP,Skirmishes,Dungeons, Questing), here are my thoughts on the latest patch/balance attempt.
    Everything takes longer, queing for anything and even solo stuff like the foundry (with the cleric). My experience so far in using all my characters, though only 3 are 60, is that this patch is not a good one. In solo play my companion dies just as fast, extra damage does nothing really. In solo stuff did not notice much change between classes other than the cleric, which is horrible now. Pvp is a disaster imo, i have never been in so many ridiculous matches ever. Now when i stick it out 3vs 5, i get nothing, even though i keep going at the other team and trying my best. On the winniing team, same stick it out for no rewards after the other team bails. Can not even kick bots lol, unreal.. Using all the classes in pvp seemed to be okay, again except for the cleric, which i do not care to elaborate.

    From the start of open beta the GWF has always been my favorite, going through the rotations i noticed not much of any difference, maybe a slight change in pvp. I sped up my rotations just to test out the changes. Normally i only cycle through 3 or 4 char, then alternate. The cleric will now become a professions maker for me. I will use it for dungeons, as the nerfs do not seem to effect me there to much when you have a good group, however time is important to me, and if the cleric is out of the rotation, i do not see much use in playing it. Now i understand the stacking of AS being stopped, however the nerf should have only happened in pvp realm, not everywhere. My advice is to make changes for PVP and PVE separate. It works in plenty of other games, amazed this was not implemented. I rarely post here and probably will not increase my activity to much, though i think the dev team is trying.

    My first impressions at open beta launch was not a good one, if not for a friend and his son getting into NWO, i probably would have quit. I am amazed at the lack of options. I stared at my dwarf GF for days wondering how come i can not use an axe right away, or even a helmet until lvl 20 or 22 and for the GF it looks silly and repulsive, not to mention the rouge, sheesh. 17k to change appearance at low level is another gripe. 60k at level 60..eh...i was able to do it, but much to my contempt. That goes for most of the characters, they all seem cookie cutter to me. In time i came to like the combat and for me the Foundry drew me in.
    i will stay as i rotate my games also,STO, Eve, LOTRO,DCUO all have my attention and are keeping it for now. I understand this is open beta and close to launch so i will be even more understanding with the changes and processes you must go through. These are my thoughts as of now, good luck in future patches and changes, i will be eagerly waiting to see the feedback results. I am impressed at the sale on zen items and the reduction of other items upon launch, good one there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    shajib1234shajib1234 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    CW does not need anymore fix, rogues do.
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    nadaclosnadaclos Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Que estimated time 45min...........IM still waiting and i have been play more than 1hour.

    Great fix....
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    bardstale001bardstale001 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 18
    edited June 2013
    Dear Developer,

    I'll tell you your biggest mistake. It wasn't so much about the nerfing, or making drastic changes in the game.

    A lot could have been avoided, at least eased, by just sending us all a direct, more personal (as opposed to robotic) email message with some heads up on the coming changes.
    It's the difference between amateur and professionalism.

    See our point of view? One day we are playing (maybe for many hours like me) and are having fun.
    Then the next day we come back to our game to play and find a lot of things weren't as they were.
    My Cleric skill(s) no longer work like they used to.
    Now I die much easier (a lot less chance to go just unconscious), etc., in what looks like some push to sell res scrolls.
    Also I wasn't even informed about a free respect until I came to the forums and read some posts.

    You could have given me some heads up and say:
    "Dear player,
    Tomorrows patch is going to bring some relatively big changes.
    Please bear with us as we attempt to balance and tweak the game to make your playing experienced more fun and enjoyable for all.
    We felt the changes are drastic enough you might want to change your build so here is a free respec token for your troubles." And so on expanded..

    What email did I get? A single email asking to buy more zen (about a 15% bonus just today).

    If someone would have thought to be at least a bit considerate and send out a community email message, it might have made a lot of difference..
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    pickygamerpickygamer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Dear Developer,

    I'll tell you your biggest mistake. It wasn't so much about the nerfing, or making drastic changes in the game.

    A lot could have been avoided, at least eased, by just sending us all a direct, more personal (as opposed to robotic) email message with some heads up on the coming changes.
    It's the difference between amateur and professionalism.

    See our point of view? One day we are playing (maybe for many hours like me) and are having fun.
    Then the next day we come back to our game to play and find a lot of things weren't as they were.
    My Cleric skill(s) no longer work like they used to.
    Now I die much easier (a lot less chance to go just unconscious), etc., in what looks like some push to sell res scrolls.
    Also I wasn't even informed about a free respect until I came to the forums and read some posts.

    You could have given me some heads up and say:
    "Dear player,
    Tomorrows patch is going to bring some relatively big changes.
    Please bear with us as we attempt to balance and tweak the game to make your playing experienced more fun and enjoyable for all.
    We felt the changes are drastic enough you might want to change your build so here is a free respec token for your troubles." And so on expanded..

    What email did I get? A single email asking to buy more zen (about a 15% bonus just today).

    If someone would have thought to be at least a bit considerate and send out a community email message, it might have made a lot of difference..

    I understand you wanted an email, but are you too inept to check forums daily? If not the forums even just the main page and you would of known about this change. I understand the forums are littered with BS but there is information here (and again, the main page would of been sufficient for this) that is useful and updates are posted here. I believe the class change patch has been on the main page or at least linked on the forums for the past week (or close to it).

    Also, have you not talked to anyone in game at all and heard mention of the changes? Your point seems pretty moot atm.
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    osadamaskosadamask Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pickygamer wrote: »
    I understand you wanted an email, but are you too inept to check forums daily? If not the forums even just the main page and you would of known about this change. I understand the forums are littered with BS but there is information here (and again, the main page would of been sufficient for this) that is useful and updates are posted here. I believe the class change patch has been on the main page or at least linked on the forums for the past week (or close to it).

    Also, have you not talked to anyone in game at all and heard mention of the changes? Your point seems pretty moot atm.
    True, but I'm surprised they wouldnt use the patch as an attempt to bring back inactive players.

    My feels on the balance patch:
    Skills in PVP should be different than skills in PVE. Or maybe we should try +75% more hp while in pvp.
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    pickygamerpickygamer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    osadamask wrote: »
    True, but I'm surprised they wouldnt use the patch as an attempt to bring back inactive players.

    My feels on the balance patch:
    Skills in PVP should be different than skills in PVE. Or maybe we should try +75% more hp while in pvp.

    Completely agree that pvp and pve should be handled seperately in terms of skill balance and scaling. Seems almost too logical i guess lol
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