If your team is so impressive that you defeat (or frighten away) other teams quickly then you will have time for more matches. Even if you get lower rewards per match, the ability to play more matches has the potential, it seems, to make up for any reduction.
I mean if you are getting in twice as many matches per hour as a less skilled team then, unless the rewards are reduced by half, you will still be getting more rewards than a less skilled team. This is especially true since that less skilled team may very well, very likely since they could end up facing you after all, lose some matches.
You could do what I saw the other day in my pug PvP.
The other team spotted us about 500 points or so. They basically ran around fighting outside the towers and let us control the towers but once we got over 500 points...bam, they basically steam rolled us and we lost by a couple hundred.
Slightly more challenging for them and basically ensured my team didn't quit at the start.
With the new rewards system, it might be the way to go.
"We are aware that this puts healers at a point disadvantage; we are looking into solutions for a future update."
/dripping sarcasm
Oh I am SO glad of that.
You make it so that I need to do this stupid PvP stuff that I don't really want to do and THEN you have the nerve to give me additional penalties when I already suck at it.
How to totally annoy parts of your playerbase Cryptic.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sports teams have to play a set amount of time regardless of the differences in their skill. They get the same reward for about the same amount of play.
Not every sport is played like that. Volleyball for example.
But you want to get full rewards for playing a match half as long or even shorter? You want more rewards for going up against worse people in addition to the win bonus?
Because I predict that this will simply make the better team ignore the objectives and farm kills instead to make the match seem more equal.
"We are aware that this puts healers at a point disadvantage; we are looking into solutions for a future update."
/dripping sarcasm
Oh I am SO glad of that.
You make it so that I need to do this stupid PvP stuff that I don't really want to do and THEN you have the nerve to give me additional penalties when I already suck at it.
How to totally annoy parts of your playerbase Cryptic.
I didn't say "forced". No one is forced to do anything. With ADs, easy gear, easy xp and all alternate paths are more onerous. And that is irksome. Now they've made PvP mandatory if you want to participate in Gaunt. I don't mind PvP as a kind of serious addendum to a game, but their design choice is that it is to be fundamental to the game. And yet you have this rather large class imbalance for PvP. And then they're rude enough to penalise you for it. Seems a bit unfair really.
My ire from a few hours ago is gone though and I can just now laugh about it cynically.
Watch and wait and see I guess.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
I didn't say "forced". No one is forced to do anything. With ADs, easy gear, easy xp and all alternate paths are more onerous. And that is irksome. Now they've made PvP mandatory if you want to participate in Gaunt. I don't mind PvP as a kind of serious addendum to a game, but their design choice is that it is to be fundamental to the game. And yet you have this rather large class imbalance for PvP. And then they're rude enough to penalise you for it. Seems a bit unfair really.
My ire from a few hours ago is gone though and I can just now laugh about it cynically.
Watch and wait and see I guess.
I still don't see why you need to do gaunt at all. It doesn't provide any better gear than dungeons. Why not just do them?
Well what else do I do if I don't do Gaunt? I guess I've kind of run out of things to do then.
/shrugs
No one will miss me so no loss to anyone
You PvE, thats what you do.
This is a game built from the ground up as a PvE game. PvP was added at the end of the production cycle, yet its got more pvp action than its only real competitor, DDO.
D&D games are going to focus on team play, that's just the way it is.
And for an IP that focuses around team play, its amazing how much you can get done with only one or two players in Neverwinter.
There's more to this game than PvP, far more. If that's all you want to do however is PvP, there may be other games out there that will better cater to your appetite. (No reason why you cant play both!:))
This is a game built from the ground up as a PvE game. PvP was added at the end of the production cycle, yet its got more pvp action than its only real competitor, DDO.
D&D games are going to focus on team play, that's just the way it is.
And for an IP that focuses around team play, its amazing how much you can get done with only one or two players in Neverwinter.
There's more to this game than PvP, far more. If that's all you want to do however is PvP, there may be other games out there that will better cater to your appetite. (No reason why you cant play both!:))
Yes I really like team play. I'm a fairly friendly person and I enjoy chatting. I am somewhat confused that the NWO party system doesn't seem to work and everyone uses zone chat.
I don't associated PvP with team play. If anything it's not really. No one talks, it's just get in and get it done. I do enjoy the team play aspect of it as you work together to get stuff done in there but it's not exactly very friendly really is it? It's very task focused and that's it. I would like more out of a game than that.
All respect to those who enjoy PvP but I don't especially.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
I should start taking screenshots of all the people crying to me, make a collage and post it tomorrow
Pfft, you don't need to be good for that at all.
One day I killed two CW's with a full bar of guard and popping supremacy of steel.......they thought I was hitting them WAY too hard to be legit............................../facepalm.
Bad PVP mechanics, poorly designed maps, and an open beta game that still needs tweaking is why this is happening it has nothing to do with you.
I do my two dominations a day to get the AD and then never queue again, classes are too imbalanced. If you want PVP go play something that focuses on PVP. This isn't the game for it.
Well it is not imbalanced, mate if you are baddie all games will be imbalanced for you! But yea the is not pvp focused game, pvp gears are easy to get and there is not good pvp content, only 2 maps with dc buggs and bots.
The "good pvp'ers" in games like this are often the ones who frequently seek out horrible mismatches, what is more commonly known as "pug farming," which gets them maximal benefits in minimal time and totally ruins the experience for casual players who just drop in for a fun game every once in a while... Trust me, I've been on both sides of the equation before.
This will promote you finding people to play against who are actually a good match. Either that or steamrolling pug groups and just waiting out the timer on lesser rewards... Who am I kidding? The latter is what is going to happen.
While i don't like lesser rewards for losing and for short matches, i'm doing all i can to make the game less enjoyable for premade teams when i see one, just because they're pissing me off when i play my cleric (permastuns, constantly primary). If you don't give them fun they won't be back. :cool:
This is a game built from the ground up as a PvE game. PvP was added at the end of the production cycle, yet its got more pvp action than its only real competitor, DDO.
D&D games are going to focus on team play, that's just the way it is.
And for an IP that focuses around team play, its amazing how much you can get done with only one or two players in Neverwinter.
There's more to this game than PvP, far more. If that's all you want to do however is PvP, there may be other games out there that will better cater to your appetite. (No reason why you cant play both!:))
I suspect that PvP is an integral part of the game's revenue stream.
What drives the need for faster mounts? PvP or PvE?
What drives the need for the best equipment echantments? PvP or PvE?
What's the quickest, surest way to get faster mounts and best equipment enchants, assuming you got the real money budget? Hmmm...
Otherwise, PvP would be treated like it is in DDO. For the laughs, nothing more.
Basically it's risk versus reward.. if the other team left or afk... you're not exactly being challenged so you gain less glory it's not like 0 glory.. just less...
If you are a good PvP players against people that are AFK or the likes, then you probably aren't a good PvPer against active players.
As far as we could know, the AFK players you are fighting against belong you an alternate account of yours and you are using them so that you can gain glory on your actual account. (just an example)
You fight, you get glory, if you don't fight, you get none. It's very simple and fair.
This is a game built from the ground up as a PvE game. PvP was added at the end of the production cycle, yet its got more pvp action than its only real competitor, DDO.
So your only "real comeptitor" is a game that came out in 2006 that almost folded and still has a relatively small population.
Nice. Good to know you folks are aiming so high.
That being said, I'd take DDO active combat over this game's combat any day. Why? Because I can actually move and fight at the same time and not be rooted to the ground because of some arbitrarily lengthy animation attack sequence.
Nothing wrong with the changes, what would be needed is a system that pits premades vs premades. The PvP in this game is fun IMO, one of the better systems since there isnt a bunch of twisting, circling and other cheap "tactics" that favor some classes massivly in other MMOs.
What I wonder however is if Gauntlegrym will "force" PvP on people. It didnt seem like it according to the released info, it seems like you can PvE or PvP if you like, or do a mix of both. Only time will tell.
I cant recall a game where steamrolling PuGs gave you a hefty reward, most games are based around time spent+preformance to calculate rewards. Also, the new thing that you need to activly attack enemies in order to get assist rewards isnt a big deal for healers, clerics MUST do damage to build divinity at a good pace, so you will deal damage.
So your only "real comeptitor" is a game that came out in 2006 that almost folded and still has a relatively small population.
Nice. Good to know you folks are aiming so high.
That being said, I'd take DDO active combat over this game's combat any day. Why? Because I can actually move and fight at the same time and not be rooted to the ground because of some arbitrarily lengthy animation attack sequence.
Silly wabbit. I would be lesliewest_guitargod from the DDO forums. Played DDO since alpha days. I prefer the combat in DDO as well as the character creation. So, why am I hear? because I got tired of the same quests and raids over and over and over and over and over again. Back in the day I ran Shroud 8 times in one day? Why? Because I was a dedicated player and their was no other way to make greensteel (the best loot in the game by far back in the day)
And you know what? The combat and character creation is just barely enough for me to play. And the best part? I never have to repeat the same junk if I dont want.
For me... neither game is the perfect D&D online experience, but I like them both (for different reasons). I love the communities more. Hence, our guild thrives in both.
Finished PvP maps no longer stand a chance of sometimes stranding players without a Leave button.
Players may no longer be kicked from PvP maps unless they are disconnected.
Players must now participate in a PvP match to qualify for its rewards.
Players no longer get points for Assists if they do not deal damage to the target player.
We are aware that this puts healers at a point disadvantage; we are looking into solutions for a future update.
PvP matches that go by much more quickly than expected now give fewer rewards.
The "Match Start" countdown now properly waits until the match is about to begin to start counting down.
The minimap zoom boundaries in both PvP maps have been improved; players should be able to zoom out more.
The rewards for losing a PvP match have been lowered.
While waiting for more players to join a PvP match, the UI now displays that it's waiting for players
I'm kind of curious about the "rewards for losing a PvP match have been lowered".
There is two types of rewards - the in-PvP rewards, and then the rewards from Rhix.
The in-PvP rewards - well who cares really? You end up with so much glory you're glory-capped and glory purchased goods you can barely give away. Look at them on the AH - their value is dropping all the time. Tiny bit of xp is not really worth it when you can do a couple of PvE quests and you're at 60 pretty fast so it doesn't benefit you (or your now dismissed companion ) and an occasional bit of green or maybe even blue loot, meh.
The Rhix rewards - tangible currency that can be used. Only during Arena PvP times. If this is not touched who cares then how badly you play in PvP? Swipe a few times at stuff and then that's it? For someone who doesn't particularly enjoy PvP I still feel obliged to try to do my best because that's only fair to my teammates, but I can totally understand someone who hates PvP piking.
Why not have two queues? The "I hate PvP but I'm just here for my AD" and the "I like PvP bring it on" queues?
Or, and I hesitate to suggest this as it negatively impacts me very much, people who PvP are going to PvP anyway and require no such reward. The rest of us suffer through it only for the AD but wouldn't if there were no AD. So just remove completely the AD reward. Then I can happily ignore it except while leveling
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Basically it's risk versus reward.. if the other team left or afk... you're not exactly being challenged so you gain less glory it's not like 0 glory.. just less...
This and as I mentioned before. They need to make the system eventually so that pugs only go up against pugs and premades only goes up against premades. Premades who disagree with this are hypocrites who are scared of a real challenge.
This and as I mentioned before. They need to make the system eventually so that pugs only go up against pugs and premades only goes up against premades. Premades who disagree with this are hypocrites who are scared of a real challenge.
Pretty much. Every game with match based PVP has gone through this cycle. Yet oddly no game ever seems to anticipate the problem and has to fix it later. Then the gravy train premades whine about not being able to farm pugs anymore. While the good ones welcome the challenge of fighting other premades.
If you're on the gravy train your whining about suddenly getting less gravy is going to fall on deaf ears. ;p
Mixing PVE and PVP in a game always leads to fail.
Not always. DaoC's Darkness Falls was fantastic. But that was a game that really fostered a community and DF itself really fostered team spirit. You opened DF for your realm, then the pvpers moved into DF to protect their lowbies and pvers from the other two realms. Use to be great fun. People reporting enemy sightings, games of cat and mouse, protecting your newbie players from ebil stealthers, etc.
Pretty much. Every game with match based PVP has gone through this cycle. Yet oddly no game ever seems to anticipate the problem and has to fix it later. Then the gravy train premades whine about not being able to farm pugs anymore. While the good ones welcome the challenge of fighting other premades.
If you're on the gravy train your whining about suddenly getting less gravy is going to fall on deaf ears. ;p
Yup. I was disheartened by this in SWTOR. I had a very successful pvp group that was well known on my server. Know what most groups did? They'd scout. If they saw my premade or some of the other "top premades." They wouldn't participate. These same premades also argued vehemently on the forums against the idea of being forced to fight other premades. Go figure. I ran into the same situation on WoW where people would use the same method before disserter. The scout joins the match and they give their group the "all clear" if it wasn't our warlord group. If it was.. the scout would drop out and they'd re-que. Most premades who call themselves "pvpers" want to grind pugs for easy victories. The idea of an actual challenge makes them shiver and sweat at their keyboard in sheer and utter terror.
Yup. I was disheartened by this in SWTOR. I had a very successful pvp group that was well known on my server. Know what most groups did? They'd scout. If they saw my premade or some of the other "top premades."
Yeah, it was really irksome in SWTOR. In WoW it pretty much became a lost cause. For SWTOR especially though it actually had pretty decent pvp variety and wasn't wildly gear or level dependent.
But, same thing seems to happen in every game. Its always fun at first when everyone is still leveling and learning. But a month or so in the elitist premades and guilds really start to rear up. Then the game gets changed to stop them from ruining it for everyone else. Then they whine. Then they move on to the next new game and do it again. Then it gets fixed. Then they whine.
It's the circle of life.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
Silly wabbit. I would be lesliewest_guitargod from the DDO forums. Played DDO since alpha days. I prefer the combat in DDO as well as the character creation. So, why am I hear? because I got tired of the same quests and raids over and over and over and over and over again. Back in the day I ran Shroud 8 times in one day? Why? Because I was a dedicated player and their was no other way to make greensteel (the best loot in the game by far back in the day)
And you know what? The combat and character creation is just barely enough for me to play. And the best part? I never have to repeat the same junk if I dont want.
For me... neither game is the perfect D&D online experience, but I like them both (for different reasons). I love the communities more. Hence, our guild thrives in both.
Whatever floats yer boat as they say!
/waves hi
The only reason I am here is because of the new path DDO seems to be taking..but I love the community there..Here, wow, i can't believe how downright nasty people are. I suspect that if the LFM system was more like DDO there would more accountability for people's actions.
As to PvP
I think that this is a good change...Bots and Afkr's from the start are rampant. I never really liked PvP in any game, but I do it here for the Daily Astrals and I have had quite a lot of fun doing it--when it's more of an equal match and all 10 people are playing. While some people like to steamroll pugs, surely they can see that if it is not fun, the pugs will stop coming, and thus no more steamrolling will happen:)
Comments
I mean if you are getting in twice as many matches per hour as a less skilled team then, unless the rewards are reduced by half, you will still be getting more rewards than a less skilled team. This is especially true since that less skilled team may very well, very likely since they could end up facing you after all, lose some matches.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
The other team spotted us about 500 points or so. They basically ran around fighting outside the towers and let us control the towers but once we got over 500 points...bam, they basically steam rolled us and we lost by a couple hundred.
Slightly more challenging for them and basically ensured my team didn't quit at the start.
With the new rewards system, it might be the way to go.
/dripping sarcasm
Oh I am SO glad of that.
You make it so that I need to do this stupid PvP stuff that I don't really want to do and THEN you have the nerve to give me additional penalties when I already suck at it.
How to totally annoy parts of your playerbase Cryptic.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Not every sport is played like that. Volleyball for example.
Because I predict that this will simply make the better team ignore the objectives and farm kills instead to make the match seem more equal.
Why are you forced to do it?
I didn't say "forced". No one is forced to do anything. With ADs, easy gear, easy xp and all alternate paths are more onerous. And that is irksome. Now they've made PvP mandatory if you want to participate in Gaunt. I don't mind PvP as a kind of serious addendum to a game, but their design choice is that it is to be fundamental to the game. And yet you have this rather large class imbalance for PvP. And then they're rude enough to penalise you for it. Seems a bit unfair really.
My ire from a few hours ago is gone though and I can just now laugh about it cynically.
Watch and wait and see I guess.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
I still don't see why you need to do gaunt at all. It doesn't provide any better gear than dungeons. Why not just do them?
Well what else do I do if I don't do Gaunt? I guess I've kind of run out of things to do then.
/shrugs
No one will miss me so no loss to anyone
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
You PvE, thats what you do.
This is a game built from the ground up as a PvE game. PvP was added at the end of the production cycle, yet its got more pvp action than its only real competitor, DDO.
D&D games are going to focus on team play, that's just the way it is.
And for an IP that focuses around team play, its amazing how much you can get done with only one or two players in Neverwinter.
There's more to this game than PvP, far more. If that's all you want to do however is PvP, there may be other games out there that will better cater to your appetite. (No reason why you cant play both!:))
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Yes I really like team play. I'm a fairly friendly person and I enjoy chatting. I am somewhat confused that the NWO party system doesn't seem to work and everyone uses zone chat.
I don't associated PvP with team play. If anything it's not really. No one talks, it's just get in and get it done. I do enjoy the team play aspect of it as you work together to get stuff done in there but it's not exactly very friendly really is it? It's very task focused and that's it. I would like more out of a game than that.
All respect to those who enjoy PvP but I don't especially.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Volleyball is still a Bo5. And you kind of do get only 1 "point" for winning a set, whether you stomp the other team or not.
So instead of winning 2 matches of about 400 glory each, you want to play 1 long, boring match for about the same glory?
Pfft, you don't need to be good for that at all.
One day I killed two CW's with a full bar of guard and popping supremacy of steel.......they thought I was hitting them WAY too hard to be legit............................../facepalm.
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Well it is not imbalanced, mate if you are baddie all games will be imbalanced for you! But yea the is not pvp focused game, pvp gears are easy to get and there is not good pvp content, only 2 maps with dc buggs and bots.
This will promote you finding people to play against who are actually a good match. Either that or steamrolling pug groups and just waiting out the timer on lesser rewards... Who am I kidding? The latter is what is going to happen.
I suspect that PvP is an integral part of the game's revenue stream.
What drives the need for faster mounts? PvP or PvE?
What drives the need for the best equipment echantments? PvP or PvE?
What's the quickest, surest way to get faster mounts and best equipment enchants, assuming you got the real money budget? Hmmm...
Otherwise, PvP would be treated like it is in DDO. For the laughs, nothing more.
As far as we could know, the AFK players you are fighting against belong you an alternate account of yours and you are using them so that you can gain glory on your actual account. (just an example)
You fight, you get glory, if you don't fight, you get none. It's very simple and fair.
So your only "real comeptitor" is a game that came out in 2006 that almost folded and still has a relatively small population.
Nice. Good to know you folks are aiming so high.
That being said, I'd take DDO active combat over this game's combat any day. Why? Because I can actually move and fight at the same time and not be rooted to the ground because of some arbitrarily lengthy animation attack sequence.
What I wonder however is if Gauntlegrym will "force" PvP on people. It didnt seem like it according to the released info, it seems like you can PvE or PvP if you like, or do a mix of both. Only time will tell.
I cant recall a game where steamrolling PuGs gave you a hefty reward, most games are based around time spent+preformance to calculate rewards. Also, the new thing that you need to activly attack enemies in order to get assist rewards isnt a big deal for healers, clerics MUST do damage to build divinity at a good pace, so you will deal damage.
Silly wabbit. I would be lesliewest_guitargod from the DDO forums. Played DDO since alpha days. I prefer the combat in DDO as well as the character creation. So, why am I hear? because I got tired of the same quests and raids over and over and over and over and over again. Back in the day I ran Shroud 8 times in one day? Why? Because I was a dedicated player and their was no other way to make greensteel (the best loot in the game by far back in the day)
And you know what? The combat and character creation is just barely enough for me to play. And the best part? I never have to repeat the same junk if I dont want.
For me... neither game is the perfect D&D online experience, but I like them both (for different reasons). I love the communities more. Hence, our guild thrives in both.
Whatever floats yer boat as they say!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
I'm kind of curious about the "rewards for losing a PvP match have been lowered".
There is two types of rewards - the in-PvP rewards, and then the rewards from Rhix.
The in-PvP rewards - well who cares really? You end up with so much glory you're glory-capped and glory purchased goods you can barely give away. Look at them on the AH - their value is dropping all the time. Tiny bit of xp is not really worth it when you can do a couple of PvE quests and you're at 60 pretty fast so it doesn't benefit you (or your now dismissed companion
The Rhix rewards - tangible currency that can be used. Only during Arena PvP times. If this is not touched who cares then how badly you play in PvP? Swipe a few times at stuff and then that's it? For someone who doesn't particularly enjoy PvP I still feel obliged to try to do my best because that's only fair to my teammates, but I can totally understand someone who hates PvP piking.
Why not have two queues? The "I hate PvP but I'm just here for my AD" and the "I like PvP bring it on" queues?
Or, and I hesitate to suggest this as it negatively impacts me very much, people who PvP are going to PvP anyway and require no such reward. The rest of us suffer through it only for the AD but wouldn't if there were no AD. So just remove completely the AD reward. Then I can happily ignore it except while leveling
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
This and as I mentioned before. They need to make the system eventually so that pugs only go up against pugs and premades only goes up against premades. Premades who disagree with this are hypocrites who are scared of a real challenge.
Pretty much. Every game with match based PVP has gone through this cycle. Yet oddly no game ever seems to anticipate the problem and has to fix it later. Then the gravy train premades whine about not being able to farm pugs anymore. While the good ones welcome the challenge of fighting other premades.
If you're on the gravy train your whining about suddenly getting less gravy is going to fall on deaf ears. ;p
Not always. DaoC's Darkness Falls was fantastic. But that was a game that really fostered a community and DF itself really fostered team spirit. You opened DF for your realm, then the pvpers moved into DF to protect their lowbies and pvers from the other two realms. Use to be great fun. People reporting enemy sightings, games of cat and mouse, protecting your newbie players from ebil stealthers, etc.
Yup. I was disheartened by this in SWTOR. I had a very successful pvp group that was well known on my server. Know what most groups did? They'd scout. If they saw my premade or some of the other "top premades." They wouldn't participate. These same premades also argued vehemently on the forums against the idea of being forced to fight other premades. Go figure. I ran into the same situation on WoW where people would use the same method before disserter. The scout joins the match and they give their group the "all clear" if it wasn't our warlord group. If it was.. the scout would drop out and they'd re-que. Most premades who call themselves "pvpers" want to grind pugs for easy victories. The idea of an actual challenge makes them shiver and sweat at their keyboard in sheer and utter terror.
Yeah, it was really irksome in SWTOR. In WoW it pretty much became a lost cause. For SWTOR especially though it actually had pretty decent pvp variety and wasn't wildly gear or level dependent.
But, same thing seems to happen in every game. Its always fun at first when everyone is still leveling and learning. But a month or so in the elitist premades and guilds really start to rear up. Then the game gets changed to stop them from ruining it for everyone else. Then they whine. Then they move on to the next new game and do it again. Then it gets fixed. Then they whine.
It's the circle of life.
/waves hi
The only reason I am here is because of the new path DDO seems to be taking..but I love the community there..Here, wow, i can't believe how downright nasty people are. I suspect that if the LFM system was more like DDO there would more accountability for people's actions.
As to PvP
I think that this is a good change...Bots and Afkr's from the start are rampant. I never really liked PvP in any game, but I do it here for the Daily Astrals and I have had quite a lot of fun doing it--when it's more of an equal match and all 10 people are playing. While some people like to steamroll pugs, surely they can see that if it is not fun, the pugs will stop coming, and thus no more steamrolling will happen:)
moops