seems more like the thing to do would be find another team that wants to battle you and have a fair fight with them instead of pwning random noobs, thinking you are good.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
Ok, this discussion needs to become a lot less insulting towards each other.
Well, anytime gaming starts being called work, I wonder if people are doing it wrong...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What it comes down to is not everyone does Premades, so they are balancing around that. You shouldnt be rewarded the same as a group in which all 10 players are trying to compete.
Not everyone does premade dungeons groups yet they are balancing around that. They should balance them around pug groups with no cleric.
I just doing it for the Daily. Even then I can barely bring myself to play PvP. The mechanics are just so badly designed. There needs to be a way of properly balancing the teams.
This is something that is basic and should have been included from the start. If both teams are neck and neck and the game lasts 30 minutes the teams should be rewarded for their valiant efforts. Teams which simply steamroll other teams will, of course, be rewarded in something which is adequate for their time put into the match.
That's nothing new. It's something which really should have been there from the beginning.
You are incorrect.
What is pretty basic and should've been from the begining is a separate queue for parties with slightly different rules and a bit more rewards: Tournaments.
Mixing premades and pugs is the design flaw.
Your "fix" will be annoying as all are diminishing returns mechcanics. It will mean if I get with good players even on a PUG we'll have to start playing conciously worse to avoid hiting the diminishing return point. This is not good design that should've been from the begining. Some form of this already happens as better teams just have players fighting among themselves for points and first place.
Why not take the time to code a basic tournament thing? It would solve all issues an provide an interesting endgame pvp environment, with none of the many disadvantages of your bandage.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
Except it's not a diminishing return.
Shorter games result in less rewards but ideally the same rewards over the same amount of time.
This is the concept which dominates most PvP Games. League of Legends, for instance, gives more rewards for more time played. That's how this system is.
This is really nothing new. It simply prevents exploiting the system in an attempt to gain faster returns by either winning or losing quickly.
You are rewarded based on your performance and the time you put into it. If you have a challenging match you get a reward fitting of your victory or loss. If you don't you get a reward befitting the time and effort you put into the match
Shorter games result in less rewards but ideally the same rewards over the same amount of time.
This is the concept which dominates most PvP Games. League of Legends, for instance, gives more rewards for more time played. That's how this system is.
This is really nothing new. It simply prevents exploiting the system in an attempt to gain faster returns by either winning or losing quickly.
You are rewarded based on your performance and the time you put into it. If you have a challenging match you get a reward fitting of your victory or loss. If you don't you get a reward befitting the time and effort you put into the match
If you manage to pull it of in a way that works as you described, I will swallow my words.
Nothing to say regarding tournaments though?
And it is a little of a diminishing return, as if I'm wining really fast I can just afk for a few mins and my score won't change so at least it doesn't force me to play at max effectiveness.
I run my own premades but they need to implement something where if someone ques alone they only get paired up with others that qued alone. Whereas if you que with a group you get paired up with other organized groups.
This is something that is basic and should have been included from the start. If both teams are neck and neck and the game lasts 30 minutes the teams should be rewarded for their valiant efforts. Teams which simply steamroll other teams will, of course, be rewarded in something which is adequate for their time put into the match.
That's nothing new. It's something which really should have been there from the beginning.
I don't pvp, but I have to ask if they match players by any criteria other than level? Do they use GS in determining where to send someone in the queue if they pug, and do they match up groups by average GS?
If you manage to pull it of in a way that works as you described, I will swallow my words.
Nothing to say regarding tournaments though?
And it is a little of a diminishing return, as if I'm wining really fast I can just afk for a few mins and my score won't change so at least it doesn't force me to play at max effectiveness.
You not playing to your max effectiveness is not a diminishing return though.
Your games are shorter with a smaller reward, but you can get into more games per hour. Congrats you just made as much glory/xp as someone who played as long as you just with less games as theirs were longer.
It would certainly make sports more 'interesting' if a winning team only got 1 point if they completely trash the other team.
Cute, a completely pointless analogy.
Sports teams have to play a set amount of time regardless of the differences in their skill. They get the same reward for about the same amount of play.
But you want to get full rewards for playing a match half as long or even shorter? You want more rewards for going up against worse people in addition to the win bonus? You want to get 1400+ glory at level 60 for winning 2 5-minute matches and only 700+ glory for 1 10-minute match?
The change does not seem like much of a slap in the face. A 10 minute match should not get as big a reward as a 20 minute match. Or, to put it in PvP terms, a team of great warriors facing another team of equally great warriors will receive more glory from their people when they return victorious than a team of great warriors that returns after pillaging a village of women and children. The greater the challenge the more glorious the victory.
Anyone that knows basic math knows the rewards will work out to about the same over a length of time played in PvP, regardless if you get less glory because you win too fast.
Bad PVP mechanics, poorly designed maps, and an open beta game that still needs tweaking is why this is happening it has nothing to do with you.
I do my two dominations a day to get the AD and then never queue again, classes are too imbalanced. If you want PVP go play something that focuses on PVP. This isn't the game for it.
To be fair to the OP, Neverwinter seems to have PvP as an afterthought. It isn't well realized as the focus seems to be the PvE aspects.
I'm not sure this will improve soon, but if it does, I hope that PvP is kept in its isolated and contained little space and not in general public. Those that seek PvP in all areas at all times only exist to spread misery and hurt on others bred from a sense of low self-worth or inadequacy with themselves or their own lot in life. If its kept to an arena, then that is fine as all who go to participate are doing so willingly.
Comments
Because then you would have something to look at while you stroke your e-peen lovingly instead of having to imagine it?
Not crying, I will probably continue making people afk / leave matches in pvp but now I will have fewer rewards for my hard work :-/
Funny, in a few months time all you will do is pvp against bots with that attitude of yours.
"Hard Work"
seems more like the thing to do would be find another team that wants to battle you and have a fair fight with them instead of pwning random noobs, thinking you are good.
Well, anytime gaming starts being called work, I wonder if people are doing it wrong...
Not everyone does premade dungeons groups yet they are balancing around that. They should balance them around pug groups with no cleric.
It would certainly make sports more 'interesting' if a winning team only got 1 point if they completely trash the other team.
You are incorrect.
What is pretty basic and should've been from the begining is a separate queue for parties with slightly different rules and a bit more rewards: Tournaments.
Mixing premades and pugs is the design flaw.
Your "fix" will be annoying as all are diminishing returns mechcanics. It will mean if I get with good players even on a PUG we'll have to start playing conciously worse to avoid hiting the diminishing return point. This is not good design that should've been from the begining. Some form of this already happens as better teams just have players fighting among themselves for points and first place.
Why not take the time to code a basic tournament thing? It would solve all issues an provide an interesting endgame pvp environment, with none of the many disadvantages of your bandage.
Shorter games result in less rewards but ideally the same rewards over the same amount of time.
This is the concept which dominates most PvP Games. League of Legends, for instance, gives more rewards for more time played. That's how this system is.
This is really nothing new. It simply prevents exploiting the system in an attempt to gain faster returns by either winning or losing quickly.
You are rewarded based on your performance and the time you put into it. If you have a challenging match you get a reward fitting of your victory or loss. If you don't you get a reward befitting the time and effort you put into the match
If you manage to pull it of in a way that works as you described, I will swallow my words.
Nothing to say regarding tournaments though?
And it is a little of a diminishing return, as if I'm wining really fast I can just afk for a few mins and my score won't change so at least it doesn't force me to play at max effectiveness.
I run my own premades but they need to implement something where if someone ques alone they only get paired up with others that qued alone. Whereas if you que with a group you get paired up with other organized groups.
I don't pvp, but I have to ask if they match players by any criteria other than level? Do they use GS in determining where to send someone in the queue if they pug, and do they match up groups by average GS?
You not playing to your max effectiveness is not a diminishing return though.
Your games are shorter with a smaller reward, but you can get into more games per hour. Congrats you just made as much glory/xp as someone who played as long as you just with less games as theirs were longer.
Cute, a completely pointless analogy.
Sports teams have to play a set amount of time regardless of the differences in their skill. They get the same reward for about the same amount of play.
But you want to get full rewards for playing a match half as long or even shorter? You want more rewards for going up against worse people in addition to the win bonus? You want to get 1400+ glory at level 60 for winning 2 5-minute matches and only 700+ glory for 1 10-minute match?
lol please l2p, kthxbye
I'm not sure this will improve soon, but if it does, I hope that PvP is kept in its isolated and contained little space and not in general public. Those that seek PvP in all areas at all times only exist to spread misery and hurt on others bred from a sense of low self-worth or inadequacy with themselves or their own lot in life. If its kept to an arena, then that is fine as all who go to participate are doing so willingly.
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