First of all: I'm pissed that dungeon running groups pick you guys instead of the character I leveled and instead of doing my best to make my toon the best I can, I'd rather come here to your forum and bad mouth your class in the hopes that the developers will nerf clerics into the ground and make people pick me for their dodgeball....I mean T2 dungeon running team. I'd like to start out my "constructive" post by talking about how your class breaks the game and finish again by talking about how your guys are breaking the game.
I think I translated that correctly...
Our "broken" class spends most of every bossfight running in circles from 40 mobs and you want them to nerf our main healing ability....go back to your bridge troll.
Why does everybody keeps nagging about cleric circle stack? I want you to try the facts the you guys actualy speak about.
GO ahead , and do CN with no astral shield. Just do it. Then come back to forum and say what you have to say about circle and stacking circles. What ppl dont understand is that CLERIC is a GROUP MEMBER that makes YOUR dps class be able to output that DMG , its not a OMG wtf unbalanaced char that just roll over others. I hope one day , they remove the circle from the game and see you all in tears , coming back to forum asking to remove mobs from dungeons cause you can't kill them now.
You should not think about nerfing everything that works decent , meanwhile try to think on how to improve the things that are not goning as intended.
As for the "cleric tank" , tanking better then a GF its just non-sense. Put a GF into the astra shield and check if you cand handle more mobs then the GF. And you say , he only taunt 5mobs , yea , 5mobs makes a great diffrence sometimes. He has other skills , if played good , can help a lot his party. Yes indeed they are not very usefull at this moment as they can be replaced in most of the dungeons but , nerfing others for the sake of GF is not the way to go.
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lhvdlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Underestimating GF's. Threat issue should be fixed i agree but actually there are still many ways to hold aggro. Tbh sometimes only with dpsing i can hold the aggro of the mobs. Hıgh dps with right class features and feats are crucial though. And for dps part if there are not alot throwing mobs out of cliffs, gfs can easly be first or second in the dps. It is just much more diffucult to optimize ur gameplay comparing to TS. And % 50 increase in action point recharge rate is freakin awesome(GF has that buff). It considerably increase the dps and cc control abilities of the party. And tanking becomes less relevant then. Because overall ccing capacity of the party increase dramaticaly.
I dont know but i guess the biggest problem is at the moment that we players still coulndt find out what to do:) and how to make the best set-up for our classes.
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renegaderadeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Why does everybody keeps nagging about cleric circle stack? I want you to try the facts the you guys actualy speak about.
GO ahead , and do CN with no astral shield. Just do it. Then come back to forum and say what you have to say about circle and stacking circles. What ppl dont understand is that CLERIC is a GROUP MEMBER that makes YOUR dps class be able to output that DMG , its not a OMG wtf unbalanaced char that just roll over others. I hope one day , they remove the circle from the game and see you all in tears , coming back to forum asking to remove mobs from dungeons cause you can't kill them now.
You should not think about nerfing everything that works decent , meanwhile try to think on how to improve the things that are not goning as intended.
As for the "cleric tank" , tanking better then a GF its just non-sense. Put a GF into the astra shield and check if you cand handle more mobs then the GF. And you say , he only taunt 5mobs , yea , 5mobs makes a great diffrence sometimes. He has other skills , if played good , can help a lot his party. Yes indeed they are not very usefull at this moment as they can be replaced in most of the dungeons but , nerfing others for the sake of GF is not the way to go.
If you honestly think you HAVE to run with 2 clerics to clear CN then you are running with **** clerics. I can solo Cleric CN full clear easily.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I thought I'd take a crack at translating the OP's post:
I think I translated that correctly...
Our "broken" class spends most of every bossfight running in circles from 40 mobs and you want them to nerf our main healing ability....go back to your bridge troll.
Or you could build with Regen gear and tank them yourself. It's what people doing now. Heck, it's how I'm building my DC.
No need for GFs when you can bring a second AS and at the same time, pull mobs better and offer general utility. It doesn't matter if the GF has a blockrate, who needs it when you can outheal any damage taken?
If you guys think the current DC is okay and my post it's just a whine, you either don't have friends who play GF or they've had extreme luck with their groups. In reality, the GFs of my guild get kicked all the time from PUGs. We'll do runs when we manage to level up a group, but the current situation isn't "okay".
I'm glad that this post managed to bring up a debate, though, and Devs confirmed they're looking at it.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Underestimating GF's. Threat issue should be fixed i agree but actually there are still many ways to hold aggro. Tbh sometimes only with dpsing i can hold the aggro of the mobs. Hıgh dps with right class features and feats are crucial though. And for dps part if there are not alot throwing mobs out of cliffs, gfs can easly be first or second in the dps. It is just much more diffucult to optimize ur gameplay comparing to TS. And % 50 increase in action point recharge rate is freakin awesome(GF has that buff). It considerably increase the dps and cc control abilities of the party. And tanking becomes less relevant then. Because overall ccing capacity of the party increase dramaticaly.
I dont know but i guess the biggest problem is at the moment that we players still coulndt find out what to do:) and how to make the best set-up for our classes.
Being able to use a GF doesn't mean it's optimal. That's the problem. Class stacking (2 DCs, 2 CW, 2 TR) seems a viable option now and tend to leave the GF and sometimes the GWF out of the equation. This means that these three classes are more atractive, they have some kind of absolute advantage that the other two lack. So to make them competitive, you both need to tone down the main unorthodox build (Cleric Tanks) and buff a bit the other two, so they can become viable alternatives.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
So yes kids despite what the guides say you DONT need 100% blue AS uptime to be an effective healer.
Agreed. Half the time it's knowing and using the right set of encounters to slot that makes the biggest difference in play... for you as a player and your build. That applies to all classes.
I've learned to master targeting party member with Healing Word now that they fixed the pet issue in closed beta (PVP is also a good practice ground for targeting). I'm not a fan of Forgemaster's Flame. But HW, SB, Bastion, HG, can do just fine. In some cases, there's not AS at all cause you have to kite the adds. I don't know about the agro regarding AS. I have less agro in some cases by playing it differently even with AS. Party members not zerging is key to that half the time. I don't know if we have the agro issue, or rather I think the Guardian Fighter has the issue. I've known good GFs who knows how to play their class suddenly get out-tanked by a pet tank you get from a quest... Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
I'l agree 100% here. Even when you factor in righteousness the main issue here is threat generation period, not an op ability per se. If GF could hold threat more reliably on multiple things this wouldnt be an issue as it would encourage you to take a more diverse group. As-is though, you'll be hard-pressed to find a GF that can pull the job of tank off well. It is sad that a cleric generates threat better than a tank, and a cleric doesn't even have to try at all to get it which is the crazy part. I understand if I heal 50% of everyone's health at once things might not like that but when passive effects peel everything off of the tank..yeah something needs adjusting. This isn't a cleric issue. This is a threat gen issue. I don't even care about righteousness at the end of the day as it would be pretty balanced in general if I weren't tanking everything already, while trying to do 100% of the healing, while trying to max my damage for d/ap gen all the while potting on cd and kiting. Don't get me wrong; I love the challenge. However, I do not love trying to do all three tasks of the holy trinity just because i hit HW a few times.
Comments
I think I translated that correctly...
Our "broken" class spends most of every bossfight running in circles from 40 mobs and you want them to nerf our main healing ability....go back to your bridge troll.
GO ahead , and do CN with no astral shield. Just do it. Then come back to forum and say what you have to say about circle and stacking circles. What ppl dont understand is that CLERIC is a GROUP MEMBER that makes YOUR dps class be able to output that DMG , its not a OMG wtf unbalanaced char that just roll over others. I hope one day , they remove the circle from the game and see you all in tears , coming back to forum asking to remove mobs from dungeons cause you can't kill them now.
You should not think about nerfing everything that works decent , meanwhile try to think on how to improve the things that are not goning as intended.
As for the "cleric tank" , tanking better then a GF its just non-sense. Put a GF into the astra shield and check if you cand handle more mobs then the GF. And you say , he only taunt 5mobs , yea , 5mobs makes a great diffrence sometimes. He has other skills , if played good , can help a lot his party. Yes indeed they are not very usefull at this moment as they can be replaced in most of the dungeons but , nerfing others for the sake of GF is not the way to go.
I dont know but i guess the biggest problem is at the moment that we players still coulndt find out what to do:) and how to make the best set-up for our classes.
If you honestly think you HAVE to run with 2 clerics to clear CN then you are running with **** clerics. I can solo Cleric CN full clear easily.
Or you could build with Regen gear and tank them yourself. It's what people doing now. Heck, it's how I'm building my DC.
No need for GFs when you can bring a second AS and at the same time, pull mobs better and offer general utility. It doesn't matter if the GF has a blockrate, who needs it when you can outheal any damage taken?
If you guys think the current DC is okay and my post it's just a whine, you either don't have friends who play GF or they've had extreme luck with their groups. In reality, the GFs of my guild get kicked all the time from PUGs. We'll do runs when we manage to level up a group, but the current situation isn't "okay".
I'm glad that this post managed to bring up a debate, though, and Devs confirmed they're looking at it.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Being able to use a GF doesn't mean it's optimal. That's the problem. Class stacking (2 DCs, 2 CW, 2 TR) seems a viable option now and tend to leave the GF and sometimes the GWF out of the equation. This means that these three classes are more atractive, they have some kind of absolute advantage that the other two lack. So to make them competitive, you both need to tone down the main unorthodox build (Cleric Tanks) and buff a bit the other two, so they can become viable alternatives.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Agreed. Half the time it's knowing and using the right set of encounters to slot that makes the biggest difference in play... for you as a player and your build. That applies to all classes.
I've learned to master targeting party member with Healing Word now that they fixed the pet issue in closed beta (PVP is also a good practice ground for targeting). I'm not a fan of Forgemaster's Flame. But HW, SB, Bastion, HG, can do just fine. In some cases, there's not AS at all cause you have to kite the adds. I don't know about the agro regarding AS. I have less agro in some cases by playing it differently even with AS. Party members not zerging is key to that half the time. I don't know if we have the agro issue, or rather I think the Guardian Fighter has the issue. I've known good GFs who knows how to play their class suddenly get out-tanked by a pet tank you get from a quest... Anyhow, just my 2 cents.