GF doesn't need better aoe agro until the class can actually survive aoe agro without astral shield.
GF either needs damage and party utility to ensure no one really cares that the class can barely tank or GFs need to take drastically reduced damage taken compared to what they do now. 45% DR and I still get hit by kobolds or zombie adds for ~1k with barely 30k hp.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
0
narathkorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
YES PLEASE remove righteousness! It makes clerics self heals 40% less effective so your in a dungeon group and can heal everyone but yourself. This is the stupidest thing I have ever come across.
My cleric is low level so correct me if I am wrong.
Doesn't the righteousness only apply when you heal yourself only. I.E. When you get the backlash heal from healing other players (most of your heal spells heal yourself too) doesnt that work at full strength?
My cleric is low level so correct me if I am wrong.
Doesn't the righteousness only apply when you heal yourself only. I.E. When you get the backlash heal from healing other players (most of your heal spells heal yourself too) doesnt that work at full strength?
I think it effects all healing done to you by you in any fashion. I asked a friend what my heals were when I hit him with Healing Word, and he said he ticked about 150 each, while I only ticked about 90.
here we go again with another NERF this class cause I suck at PVP or playing the class thread.
Actually the nerf is being called for the fact the we DO know how to play the class. We know how to stack Astral Shield, and we see it as being over powered, so we are calling for a nerf.
Actually the nerf is being called for the fact the we DO know how to play the class. We know how to stack Astral Shield, and we see it as being over powered, so we are calling for a nerf.
If you knew how to play the class then you would know that 2 stacking shields isnt necessary to clear T2 content.
Makes me /lol inside when I think of what kind of rediculous whine emo cutter threads you guys are going to make when/if they actually do nerf AS. You'll be crying to nerf every single Dungeon cuz you wont be able to do anything without the shields.
I <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in your general directions!
I think it effects all healing done to you by you in any fashion. I asked a friend what my heals were when I hit him with Healing Word, and he said he ticked about 150 each, while I only ticked about 90.
More or less so, though I am curious if it also affects life steal.
Im not sure what Cryptic was thinking. or where people were during beta not to notice this. This is why beta should be reserved for serious players that test this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Im not sure what Cryptic was thinking. or where people were during beta not to notice this. This is why beta should be reserved for serious players that test this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The healing agro and cleric healing nerf? It was tested, it was reported, it was complained about, it was considered to be working as intended.
The astral shields stacking? Someone in this thread already said that is misinformation and not actually true.
The GF agro skills only working on 5 targets? No idea on that 1 what happened.
Clerics and GF take about the same damage from mobs. The small hp advantage GFs get is negated by the healing from the circle a lot of the time. If the GF tries to tank more then the boss in the circle, it actually increases the DC agro past any point where the GF can reliably hold it. Trying to tank outside the circle means taking more damage, receiving less healing, and makes tanking anything but the boss for extended periods of time suicidal.
If the current mechanics are as intended there is no reason to take 1 GF and 1 DC over 2 DC. Even if Astrals didn't stack, the area covered by astral shield is now doubled. One shield full of aoe circles? go to the empty one. GFs are pathetic tanks at the moment and completely unnecessary. GFs not set up to be dps are just holding their group back out of pride.
It's not a cleric problem, it's a GF problem.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
The cash shop is open and there will be no refunds or wipes. It's called a beta to avoid serious criticism.
Nice tinfoil hat. Purchases are optional and major changes will be made to the game. Beta is Beta. Money paid goes to support the development, as games are not made without cost.
Nice tinfoil hat. Purchases are optional and major changes will be made to the game. Beta is Beta. Money paid goes to support the development, as games are not made without cost.
My tinfoil hat is made of tangible cynicism and industry experience. The alternative is to give in to the idea that all MMOs are always in beta which doesn't do the discussion any good.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Is the real issue with Tanking, that the GF Threat mechanics are borked, so GFs don't pull threat like they are supposed to?
GF cannot survive aoe threat without astral shield and have miserable aoe threat. Even single target threat is only so so. GFs just have terrible survivability when not supported by a DC and if you have a DC they do the job better anyway while bringing more to the group.
To a lesser extent, the disparities support group decisions to forgo inviting a GF at all because there is little reason to not take another cleric or dps.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
GF cannot survive aoe threat without astral shield and have miserable aoe threat. Even single target threat is only so so.
but is that because the class is designed weak period, or because something is screwy in the code, and the numbers aren't adding up the way they are supposed to be?
but is that because the class is designed weak period, or because something is screwy in the code, and the numbers aren't adding up the way they are supposed to be?
Lots of GF feats are broken so it's hard to say what the actual problem is but the class is just designed poorly for tanking.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Is the real issue with Tanking, that the GF Threat mechanics are borked, so GFs don't pull threat like they are supposed to?
Half that, and half encounters being not threat-friendly.
1) Marks disappear once they successfully hit a GF. Since marks are a significant source of threat (double to triple based on feat), they essentially only helps non guard-specced GFs to gain, not hold, aggro.
2) Guard spec Guardian means not damage spec, so they do less aggro even if they stab the target.
3) Enforced threat max 5 enemy cap.
In the end, it mostly boils down to how well a GF can dodge attacks or time marks between attacks, along with realizing that that can't reliably hold everything at a time anyway. Though for single target GF is actually very strong, thanks to all the damage multipliers a GF can get.
Didnt even know this was a thing. With bosses spawning upwards of 20 minions, they REALLY need to pull aggro for alot more. Whats the point of pulling 5 mobs when the cleric still has 10 or more attacking him.
You could also fix this by actually designing good boss fights instead of spamming wave after wave of junk to artificially inflate difficulty.
First of all: I'm in love with this game, so this post is intended to be constructive. I think I've made my point clear in other posts. I know every game has flaws, and making them clear while adding suggestions on how to solve them helps the game.
There is a huge problem that threatens Neverwinter, and when I mean huge, I mean gamebreaking.
The Cleric.
There is absolutely no reason to play a Guardian Fighter. He can only pull 5 mobs at once. He does no damage compared to the rest of the classes. He is basically, a waste of slot when you can pick a second Cleric.
For people that don't know, a double Cleric comp can do the tanking job much better. It is because of a power the Cleric has: Astral Shield. It mitigates damage. Two Clerics can cast two Astral Shields that STACK. Also, Clerics can draw aggro of ALL THE MOBS due to their broken aggro ratings. Cleric tanks. You heard it. Clerics who tank better damage than a GF, who deal more damage, can heal, and... basically turn a whole class into complete uselesness in the endgame.
I don't think it's fair. It's an exploit, quit with the "meta speech". This isn't League of Legends, nor 3.5 where you can multiclass. GFs SHOULD be better tanks than a Cleric.
I have three suggestions to solve this problem:
- Nerf heal aggro from the Cleric. Really, it's dumb how it is at the moment.
- Hotfix the Astral Shield stacking. They shouldn't stack. Period.
- Remove the 5 mob aggro cap from the GF's taunt. It's just silly. Ot give him more single target damage if his purpose is to tank the boss. Currently a Rogue does the job better...
I don't play a GF, by the way. I'm concerned with their situation, however. I want Neverwinter to be a better game, hence the purpose of the post. This is a core issue that should be adressed asap.
You could also fix this by actually designing good boss fights instead of spamming wave after wave of junk to artificially inflate difficulty.
This may be true, but being a free game with limited resources, you cant expect a whole lot from boss fights being extravagant 'Shadow of the Colossus' styled epic center piece dramatic events.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
GF should have a passive (for those who want to tank) or a toggle that once it is on, EVERY attack can generate aggro PERIOD. You can put points into it and generate bonus aggro.
this include any AoE skills and even have AoE taunt (which should be any mobs in a given area) heck give them TWO taunts type. PBAoE and Ground targetable AoE (the boss will be taunted by attacks with built in aggro builder)
You could also fix this by actually designing good boss fights instead of spamming wave after wave of junk to artificially inflate difficulty.
I think Dracolich is a good fight because the adds make it hard. Just because it has tons of adds doesn't instantly make it artificially difficult, there is plenty of real difficulty there. The add swarm style definitely fits the gameplay, because healers mostly have the tools to deal with it, and it gives Control Wizards a role since bosses can't be CC'd.
Having all bosses share this add swarm mechanic is lame, though.
Well, except you know that the tank can't actually tank because everything is chasing the cleric.
GF can't aoe tank without cleric support and cleric support means instant agro because GF aoe agro is terrible. All that is missing is some Benny Hill music.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Which leads to the point: GF is NOT supposed to AoE tank.
GF: Tanks critical enemies.
GWF: Tanks the rest.
CW: Control enemies to make all that tanking easier (since marks don't fall off until you get hit, and enemies which are being controlled can't attack..) (also, controlled enemies don't do damage, hence lowering pressure on DC.)
DC: Heals and buffs.
TR: Poke stuff, and help with aggro redirection, since they can also reliably manage single enemies (not so much when multiple enemies are involved)
Comments
GF either needs damage and party utility to ensure no one really cares that the class can barely tank or GFs need to take drastically reduced damage taken compared to what they do now. 45% DR and I still get hit by kobolds or zombie adds for ~1k with barely 30k hp.
My cleric is low level so correct me if I am wrong.
Doesn't the righteousness only apply when you heal yourself only. I.E. When you get the backlash heal from healing other players (most of your heal spells heal yourself too) doesnt that work at full strength?
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I think it effects all healing done to you by you in any fashion. I asked a friend what my heals were when I hit him with Healing Word, and he said he ticked about 150 each, while I only ticked about 90.
Actually the nerf is being called for the fact the we DO know how to play the class. We know how to stack Astral Shield, and we see it as being over powered, so we are calling for a nerf.
If you knew how to play the class then you would know that 2 stacking shields isnt necessary to clear T2 content.
Makes me /lol inside when I think of what kind of rediculous whine emo cutter threads you guys are going to make when/if they actually do nerf AS. You'll be crying to nerf every single Dungeon cuz you wont be able to do anything without the shields.
I <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in your general directions!
Cheers
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Astral shield life steal...not sure, havent tested that yet. Not sure if it matter though, cleric dont really do alot of dmg anyway.
Not sure what your idea of "alot of damage" is, but I've done over 14mil in the Icy T2.....Its all how ya play buddy
The healing agro and cleric healing nerf? It was tested, it was reported, it was complained about, it was considered to be working as intended.
The astral shields stacking? Someone in this thread already said that is misinformation and not actually true.
The GF agro skills only working on 5 targets? No idea on that 1 what happened.
If the current mechanics are as intended there is no reason to take 1 GF and 1 DC over 2 DC. Even if Astrals didn't stack, the area covered by astral shield is now doubled. One shield full of aoe circles? go to the empty one. GFs are pathetic tanks at the moment and completely unnecessary. GFs not set up to be dps are just holding their group back out of pride.
It's not a cleric problem, it's a GF problem.
The cash shop is open and there will be no refunds or wipes. It's called a beta to avoid serious criticism.
Nice tinfoil hat. Purchases are optional and major changes will be made to the game. Beta is Beta. Money paid goes to support the development, as games are not made without cost.
My tinfoil hat is made of tangible cynicism and industry experience. The alternative is to give in to the idea that all MMOs are always in beta which doesn't do the discussion any good.
GF cannot survive aoe threat without astral shield and have miserable aoe threat. Even single target threat is only so so. GFs just have terrible survivability when not supported by a DC and if you have a DC they do the job better anyway while bringing more to the group.
To a lesser extent, the disparities support group decisions to forgo inviting a GF at all because there is little reason to not take another cleric or dps.
but is that because the class is designed weak period, or because something is screwy in the code, and the numbers aren't adding up the way they are supposed to be?
Lots of GF feats are broken so it's hard to say what the actual problem is but the class is just designed poorly for tanking.
Half that, and half encounters being not threat-friendly.
1) Marks disappear once they successfully hit a GF. Since marks are a significant source of threat (double to triple based on feat), they essentially only helps non guard-specced GFs to gain, not hold, aggro.
2) Guard spec Guardian means not damage spec, so they do less aggro even if they stab the target.
3) Enforced threat max 5 enemy cap.
In the end, it mostly boils down to how well a GF can dodge attacks or time marks between attacks, along with realizing that that can't reliably hold everything at a time anyway. Though for single target GF is actually very strong, thanks to all the damage multipliers a GF can get.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
You could also fix this by actually designing good boss fights instead of spamming wave after wave of junk to artificially inflate difficulty.
This may be true, but being a free game with limited resources, you cant expect a whole lot from boss fights being extravagant 'Shadow of the Colossus' styled epic center piece dramatic events.
this include any AoE skills and even have AoE taunt (which should be any mobs in a given area) heck give them TWO taunts type. PBAoE and Ground targetable AoE (the boss will be taunted by attacks with built in aggro builder)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I think Dracolich is a good fight because the adds make it hard. Just because it has tons of adds doesn't instantly make it artificially difficult, there is plenty of real difficulty there. The add swarm style definitely fits the gameplay, because healers mostly have the tools to deal with it, and it gives Control Wizards a role since bosses can't be CC'd.
Having all bosses share this add swarm mechanic is lame, though.
GF can't aoe tank without cleric support and cleric support means instant agro because GF aoe agro is terrible. All that is missing is some Benny Hill music.
GF: Tanks critical enemies.
GWF: Tanks the rest.
CW: Control enemies to make all that tanking easier (since marks don't fall off until you get hit, and enemies which are being controlled can't attack..) (also, controlled enemies don't do damage, hence lowering pressure on DC.)
DC: Heals and buffs.
TR: Poke stuff, and help with aggro redirection, since they can also reliably manage single enemies (not so much when multiple enemies are involved)
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.