Why don't you understand the posters anger? If it would've sold for 2AD's but legit, without AH being down and timers not, then yes. You're right, he would've took the risk and lost.
Because this is an OPEN BETA. In BETAS all kind of very bad things will happen. And please, don't come with the argument this isn't a BETA any longer. It is printed directly on the main page above the download button. Even the most ignorant people cannot deny that the words are there.
Do not use any of your money in an OPEN BETA. Do not expect perfect functionality and stability. **** will happen, all the time. And they have the right, in an BETA, to wipe you at any given time, if they need to. They have to reset your Zen, but that is all they have to do.
And again. DO NOT SPEND YOUR MONEY IN THIS GAME NOW.
What the poster can do now is simple: Post this behavior of the AH as BUG. It has to be fixed. So they cannot wiggle out of it, if it happens again, in the released version.
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frozenxileMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes, because holding people accountable for their actions is illogical, especially in an MMO where people swore up and down they were going to quit if the server didn't get wiped for the exploits, and then follow it up by supporting yet another exploit. Peace.
You have no idea what the word exploit means, it's not some label you can go applying to everything. Listing at 1 AD is not an exploit, it's a risk. A risk that shouldn't have ever included 90% of the auction's latter end not being available for bid.
Actually, no. His MO for auctioning? List it really low to save money, and if he doesn't get the bid he wants, pull it. That's exploiting the AH. Once a bid is placed, the item should be locked in for sale. This will, as I stated earlier, force people to list at prices they would be comfortable with getting, just in case. So, if the item sold, somebody bid, and he should have been locked out of reclaiming it, no matter how long the auction ran. Sorry, but an exploit is an exploit.
Even if you couldn't take your auction down once a bid was made, it changes nothing.
The auctioneer (PWE/Cryptic) froze his auction with time remaining, and when they unfroze his auction they simply declared it over.
The issue here is that the auctioneer allowed the time to expire on the seller's action without allowing people to bid on that auction. I don't know what part of the world you live in, but where I come from that is very much illegal.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
You are wrong, it has everything to do with my post, because according to your flawed logic duration has no meaning, that is what you gonna get in 10 mins of auctioning a product equals to 3 months of auctioning the same product.
That's not really the point. It's not his fault either. That complaint is pretty valid.
That absolutely is the point. It's called a "minimum bid" for a reason. It's the minimum amount you're willing to settle on. The amount that will leave you feeling like you still came out ahead on your sale. Everything above that is just gravy. That's the number you set the minimum at and not a penny less. If you do, that's on you.
If people actually did this, threads like this wouldn't exist. It doesn't matter if the auction house went offline and the clock kept running (which I'm pretty sure happens in every MMO I've ever played), or if there was just an unsurprising lack of interest in the product. Use the minimum price correctly (rather than as a sneaky way to save on listing fees) and you won't have this problem.
What you're not getting is that the auction transpired over the weekend, a high activity time frame. Due to the AH's closure, the auctions ended with the last bid prior to the AH getting shut down. There were potential customers unable to view the bid, potential higher profits for the OP. It's not the OP's fault the devs allowed the AH bid time to lapse despite them shutting down. Does this need further explanation? I didn't suffer any losses, but I can at least emphathize with his.
You're mistake is in assuming I'm not "getting it". I'm well aware that auctions continue to run even when the auction house is taken offline, even when the entire game is down for maintenance. We have had more than enough maintenance windows for anyone to be well aware that the timer continues to run on the auction house regardless of whether the server and/or auction house is accessible or not. It works this same way in more than a few MMOs, including "the big one".
What you're not "getting" is that my point still stands regardless of your complaint. You're supposed to set the minimum bid at a price you're willing to live with, where anything beyond that price is just bonus. That way, whether the minimum bid is barely met because only a few people bothered to bid, or the auction house was locked down and preventing further bids, you end up getting - at a minimum - your minimum asking price, which we have already established you should set at a price you can be happy with.
Chew on this for a while: When someone sets their minimum bid at "1" AD in order to avoid paying listing fees, and the item sells for 100 AD - that's 100x the amount the seller suggested he would settle for. Now, if in reality he really wanted the item to sell for at least a minimum of 100,000 AD, then he should have set the minimum bid at 100,000 AD! The tools are there to get exactly what you want regardless of surprises. Use them properly or risk getting screwed by something you weren't counting on. It's that simple.
Because if he would have posted for an amount that he would have been happy with receiving, the AH going down would be a non-issue, like it is for those who use it as it was intended.
You're defending Cryptic by saying it was the players fault. Thus, if it wasn't Cryptic's fault, they did it right and should do it the same way again if they have to.
My gamble is that the item will not receive any bids OVER 5 DAYS! NOT 2 hours. Are you honestly this stupid?
What I, who posted my auctions about 2h before the rollback, missed out on:
1) 98,3% of the intended auction time. <- Please try to comprehend this.
2) The possible bids of everyone that sorts auction by TIME REMAINING, to get good deals.
So no, that's not my fault. It's the fault of a company who obviously can't handle running a game.
I'm not the one who put a unrealistic low minimum bid on an item I was selling! It is totally your fault you did not protect your investment. E-Bay unofficial axiom let the Seller beware!
You are wrong, it has everything to do with my post, because according to your flawed logic duration has no meaning, that is what you gonna get in 10 mins of auctioning a product equals to 3 months of auctioning the same product.
Umm... reread the post. All I said is if he posts an item at a price that is acceptable to him, then he will always be happy with his income from it, and any downtime or AH errors would have no effect on it.
You're defending Cryptic by saying it was the players fault. Thus, if it wasn't Cryptic's fault, they did it right and should do it the same way again if they have to.
Or did I just misinterpret your post?
I have not defended cryptic at all, I am just admonishing posters for using shady tactics to circumvent the AH price.
I have not defended cryptic at all, I am just admonishing posters for using shady tactics to circumvent the AH price.
How do they circumvent it? You can't retract an auction if someone bids.
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quietqMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Really....... are you kidding me. 16 pages of replies about a fictitious item in a fictitious AH in a fictitious game. GET OVER IT. Go kill some more fictitious monsters or better yet go take a walk and get familiar with a real world just outside your game cave.
Really....... are you kidding me. 16 pages of replies about a fictitious item in a fictitious AH in a fictitious game. GET OVER IT. Go kill some more fictitious monsters or better yet go take a walk and get familiar with a real world just outside your game cave.
Look at this guy, he's better than everybody else!
Is the money people put into this game fictitious too?
Umm... reread the post. All I said is if he posts an item at a price that is acceptable to him, then he will always be happy with his income from it, and any downtime or AH errors would have no effect on it.
You are wrong, that is not how the auctioning system works.
I have not defended cryptic at all, I am just admonishing posters for using shady tactics to circumvent the AH price.
If it's shady or not shouldn't be the question. I agree that he could've played safe by setting the min bid to a higher value. But as I said, he had no chance of getting higher bids due to the AH being down. That's why I think in this particular case, it's Cryptic's fault that he lost.
You have no idea what the word exploit means, it's not some label you can go applying to everything. Listing at 1 AD is not an exploit, it's a risk. A risk that shouldn't have ever included 90% of the auction's latter end not being available for bid.
PWE ****ed up, stop being an apologist.
LOL. I'm not being an apologist. I am simply stating that, in my opinion, which according to the NW forums means law, listing an item on the AH for megacheap, and then removing it because nobody bid what you wanted is an exploit. So much so that most of the games I've played don't allow people to pull items that have been bid on off the AH. This should be a feature here too. The definition of exploit I'm using:
2
: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>
Really....... are you kidding me. 16 pages of replies about a fictitious item in a fictitious AH in a fictitious game. GET OVER IT. Go kill some more fictitious monsters or better yet go take a walk and get familiar with a real world just outside your game cave.
Discussions are healthy. At the very moment you stop discussing and share your opinion, you're done.
If it's shady or not shouldn't be the question. I agree that he could've played safe by setting the min bid to a higher value. But as I said, he had no chance of getting higher bids due to the AH being down. That's why I think in this particular case, it's Cryptic's fault that he lost.
I understand that the outage limited the amount of time that people were able to bid, but if he set a higher minimum bid, then the outage would not have caused him to lose a valuable item for very little AD. Cryptic is not free of blame, but circumventing the AH fee with the Low min (could be seen as exploiting if he uses an alt to counterbid it higher) is what I see as causing the loss.
Even if you couldn't take your auction down once a bid was made, it changes nothing.
The auctioneer (PWE/Cryptic) froze his auction with time remaining, and when they unfroze his auction they simply declared it over.
The issue here is that the auctioneer allowed the time to expire on the seller's action without allowing people to bid on that auction. I don't know what part of the world you live in, but where I come from that is very much illegal.
-Travail.
...and, if he had listed it for a price he was comfortable with, it would, as somebody else pointed out, have been a non-issue. Instead, we're here hearing all about how it's unfair that his preferred method of listing, and then pulling before the auction ends if he doesn't get that min amount is unfair. If one is going to play the market like that, one takes that chance. The lesson here isn't that Cryptic/PW screwed him, it's that he screwed himself attempting to circumvent charges for listing the item. It's no more complicated than that. I, myself, completely lost an item I had listed, but not to a sale, it's just gone.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Right after the paragraph that says that everything in a beta is wipeable.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I understand that NOW it is PWE fault (AH shutdown) so the OP is asking PWE for compensation.
I don't think he should/can ask since he did not post the min bid like he should.
The seller could "lost connection" for various of reason. Right now it is PWE, what if he lost power for a week? natural disaster? ISP issue?
What if his ISP is out? ISP will normally compensate with "free days" or "gift cards" but I'm sure the ISP will NOT refund LOST AD from a game that the player couldn't log into would he?
I understand that I am giving broad explanation, but the OP has to understand that there is a minimum bid in place just in CASE ANYTHING were to happen (i.e. he can't use a mule to pump up the bid not saying that he did)
I understand that NOW it is PWE fault (AH shutdown) so the OP is asking PWE for compensation.
I don't think he should/can ask since he did not post the min bid like he should.
The seller could "lost connection" for various of reason. Right now it is PWE, what if he lost power for a week? natural disaster? ISP issue?
What if his ISP is out? ISP will normally compensate with "free days" or "gift cards" but I'm sure the ISP will NOT refund LOST AD from a game that the player couldn't log into would he?
I understand that I am giving broad explanation, but the OP has to understand that there is a minimum bid in place just in CASE ANYTHING were to happen (i.e. he can't use a mule to pump up the bid not saying that he did)
Comments
When did I say that?
Because this is an OPEN BETA. In BETAS all kind of very bad things will happen. And please, don't come with the argument this isn't a BETA any longer. It is printed directly on the main page above the download button. Even the most ignorant people cannot deny that the words are there.
Do not use any of your money in an OPEN BETA. Do not expect perfect functionality and stability. **** will happen, all the time. And they have the right, in an BETA, to wipe you at any given time, if they need to. They have to reset your Zen, but that is all they have to do.
And again. DO NOT SPEND YOUR MONEY IN THIS GAME NOW.
What the poster can do now is simple: Post this behavior of the AH as BUG. It has to be fixed. So they cannot wiggle out of it, if it happens again, in the released version.
You have no idea what the word exploit means, it's not some label you can go applying to everything. Listing at 1 AD is not an exploit, it's a risk. A risk that shouldn't have ever included 90% of the auction's latter end not being available for bid.
PWE ****ed up, stop being an apologist.
Back at you.
WAAAHAHAAHAHAAHA I lost pretty pixels!!!!
Seriously I understand both sides.
Let me say --- Nothing is going to happen.
Sure you can use the forums to post and throw a fit about it, decompress and lose the emotional energy.
Let me repeat...NOTHING will happen.
Even if you couldn't take your auction down once a bid was made, it changes nothing.
The auctioneer (PWE/Cryptic) froze his auction with time remaining, and when they unfroze his auction they simply declared it over.
The issue here is that the auctioneer allowed the time to expire on the seller's action without allowing people to bid on that auction. I don't know what part of the world you live in, but where I come from that is very much illegal.
-Travail.
You are wrong, it has everything to do with my post, because according to your flawed logic duration has no meaning, that is what you gonna get in 10 mins of auctioning a product equals to 3 months of auctioning the same product.
What you're not "getting" is that my point still stands regardless of your complaint. You're supposed to set the minimum bid at a price you're willing to live with, where anything beyond that price is just bonus. That way, whether the minimum bid is barely met because only a few people bothered to bid, or the auction house was locked down and preventing further bids, you end up getting - at a minimum - your minimum asking price, which we have already established you should set at a price you can be happy with.
Chew on this for a while: When someone sets their minimum bid at "1" AD in order to avoid paying listing fees, and the item sells for 100 AD - that's 100x the amount the seller suggested he would settle for. Now, if in reality he really wanted the item to sell for at least a minimum of 100,000 AD, then he should have set the minimum bid at 100,000 AD! The tools are there to get exactly what you want regardless of surprises. Use them properly or risk getting screwed by something you weren't counting on. It's that simple.
You're defending Cryptic by saying it was the players fault. Thus, if it wasn't Cryptic's fault, they did it right and should do it the same way again if they have to.
Or did I just misinterpret your post?
Umm... reread the post. All I said is if he posts an item at a price that is acceptable to him, then he will always be happy with his income from it, and any downtime or AH errors would have no effect on it.
I have not defended cryptic at all, I am just admonishing posters for using shady tactics to circumvent the AH price.
How do they circumvent it? You can't retract an auction if someone bids.
Look at this guy, he's better than everybody else!
Is the money people put into this game fictitious too?
You are wrong, that is not how the auctioning system works.
If it's shady or not shouldn't be the question. I agree that he could've played safe by setting the min bid to a higher value. But as I said, he had no chance of getting higher bids due to the AH being down. That's why I think in this particular case, it's Cryptic's fault that he lost.
LOL. I'm not being an apologist. I am simply stating that, in my opinion, which according to the NW forums means law, listing an item on the AH for megacheap, and then removing it because nobody bid what you wanted is an exploit. So much so that most of the games I've played don't allow people to pull items that have been bid on off the AH. This should be a feature here too. The definition of exploit I'm using:
Source
And the transaction is invalid if the AH is down for longer than 80% of the duration of the auction.
Discussions are healthy. At the very moment you stop discussing and share your opinion, you're done.
with a set specific requirements for minimum bid accepted?
To make sure you don't lose your item to a low balling bid?
Cause that is how Auctions seem to work when I have seen them or set them up on E-Bay.
I understand that the outage limited the amount of time that people were able to bid, but if he set a higher minimum bid, then the outage would not have caused him to lose a valuable item for very little AD. Cryptic is not free of blame, but circumventing the AH fee with the Low min (could be seen as exploiting if he uses an alt to counterbid it higher) is what I see as causing the loss.
No, you lost 500k because you made a risky decision, probably many many times, and once it didn't work out. That's why it's called "risk".
Where in the ToS is this stated?
...and, if he had listed it for a price he was comfortable with, it would, as somebody else pointed out, have been a non-issue. Instead, we're here hearing all about how it's unfair that his preferred method of listing, and then pulling before the auction ends if he doesn't get that min amount is unfair. If one is going to play the market like that, one takes that chance. The lesson here isn't that Cryptic/PW screwed him, it's that he screwed himself attempting to circumvent charges for listing the item. It's no more complicated than that. I, myself, completely lost an item I had listed, but not to a sale, it's just gone.
Right after the paragraph that says that everything in a beta is wipeable.
I don't think he should/can ask since he did not post the min bid like he should.
The seller could "lost connection" for various of reason. Right now it is PWE, what if he lost power for a week? natural disaster? ISP issue?
What if his ISP is out? ISP will normally compensate with "free days" or "gift cards" but I'm sure the ISP will NOT refund LOST AD from a game that the player couldn't log into would he?
I understand that I am giving broad explanation, but the OP has to understand that there is a minimum bid in place just in CASE ANYTHING were to happen (i.e. he can't use a mule to pump up the bid not saying that he did)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I think you may be playing the wrong game.
He lost it because of PWE's incompetence.
Isn't that a reason for a refund?