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True MMORPG gaming has come to an end.

taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013 in Off Topic
Crafting an experience that complements the game without overwhelming the wallets and expectations of their customer base — is well and truly dead in 2013.

http://games.on.net/2013/05/boycotting-dlc-why-we-need-to-stop-paying-for-extras-we-should-have-got-in-the-first-place/


Not really sure where MMORPG gaming will go from here, but it is clear that true to life MMORPG gaming is coming to a end.

Sad thing is, that it matters not wether we as gamers boycott the industry in hopes to push it to new heights which I think most of know, it can if a company that can combine an experience that overwhelmes us plus $$$. Even if we did boycott in massses, what will it achieve? Nothing, because they will just shift thier attention to consoles, app based games, flash based games and the stinking cess pool of DLC gaming and F2P cash shop grabs like NW for example.

These companies are so focused on profit and revenue that they are stubborn enough to go, “Well, the life of MMORPG’s have come to and end, time to focus on Action based RPG’s online with cash shops and DLC……/rubbing hands together evily while seeing $$”. This has a compounding negative effect that will scare any company and investors off in the future in an attempt to possibly rebuild or release any future titles. They will simply, wipe their hands of it.

Defining success is but a mere matter of opinion. For me, I don’t see where the MMORPG industry has gone over the past 15 years as a ongoing success. I see it as a stagnat mess, a cess pool for companies to abuse us knowing full well that most people out there are simply too blind to see the forest through the trees.

Do not even attempt to take me out of context, I am sure no one wishes to go back to the days of grinding 5 million monsters to gain a level, content is king and that is the point here. The sheer lack of content on title releases today is what is killing this industry. Title after title that gets released has minimal content and they continue to ask for premimum costs for access to these titles or ingame features.

Where will true to life MMORPGaming go from here? I see its death and demise. One can argue that just because we have a online AH, the game is a MMORPG. Because we can chat in open channels, that is what defines a MMORPG. Because we can make a group of 2 – 5 people who don’t even require to communicate with each other on any level, this is a MMORPG. But we can join a server with thousands of online players, and not require to interact with them, ever, this is MMORPG?

To me, these examples are not true to life MMORPG’s, they are cash grabs, money making machines with no depth or soul to them. They are simply not MMO, they are nothing more then small scale online RPG’s with a hint of social interaction if you *choose*. There is simply little to no need to even group or join a guild to gain access to the MMO side of things.

We need a group of highly motivated and dedicated individuals to band together and Kickstart an a immense program to bring back the MMO to MMORPG gaming.

Kickstarting is the only saviour for MMORPGaming at this present point in time, no company or shareholders are interested in the gamer.

/pray for Kickstarter to produce something for us gamers who wants games designed by gamers for gamers.
Post edited by taemekeg on

Comments

  • noshiznoshiz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    MMO, Massive Multiplayer Online, is the game that is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. It has nothing to do with how they socialize with each other. So technically any game that can support like 1 thousand people simultaneously is an MMO.

    I am pretty sure that what u wanted to say is something else.
    fs_49316d8a5de21281b0f4fc8f0089006b.png
  • koyvarkoyvar Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    taemekeg wrote: »
    http://games.on.net/2013/05/boycotting-dlc-why-we-need-to-stop-paying-for-extras-we-should-have-got-in-the-first-place/


    Not really sure where MMORPG gaming will go from here, but it is clear that true to life MMORPG gaming is coming to a end.

    Sad thing is, that it matters not wether we as gamers boycott the industry in hopes to push it to new heights which I think most of know, it can if a company that can combine an experience that overwhelmes us plus $$$. Even if we did boycott in massses, what will it achieve? Nothing, because they will just shift thier attention to consoles, app based games, flash based games and the stinking cess pool of DLC gaming and F2P cash shop grabs like NW for example.

    Defining success is but a mere matter of opinion. For me, I don't see where the MMORPG industry has gone over the past 15 years as a ongoing success. I see it as a stagnat mess, a cess pool for companies to abuse us knowing full well that most people out there are simply too blind to see the forest through the trees.

    Do not even attempt to take me out of context, I am sure no one wishes to go back to the days of grinding 5 million monsters to gain a level, content is king and that is the point here. The sheer lack of content on title releases today is what is killing this industry. Title after title that gets released has minimal content and they continue to ask for premimum costs for access to these titles or ingame features.

    Where will true to life MMORPGaming go from here? I see its death and demise. One can argue that just because we have a online AH, the game is a MMORPG. Because we can chat in open channels, that is what defines a MMORPG. Because we can make a group of 2 - 5 people who don't even require to communicate with each other on any level, this is a MMORPG. But we can join a server with thousands of online players, and not require to interact with them, ever, this is MMORPG?

    To me, these examples are not true to life MMORPG's, they are cash grabs, money making machines with no depth or soul to them. They are simply not MMO, they are nothing more small scale online RPG's with a hint of social interaction if you choose. There is simply little to almost no need to even group or join a guild to gain access to the MMO side of things.

    We need a group of highly motivated and dedicated individuals to band together and Kickstart an a immense program to bring back the MMO to MMORPG gaming.

    If anyone could kindly give me some further info on how to organize something like this, please send me a PM.

    I disagree. NW is the perfect example of a game where you definitely don't need to buy anything from the cash shop in order to play a fun game. Sure, there are a few limits that might be annoying, but that's just incentive so you will buy something ;) But still, if you spend like 15 bucks per month (like, the subscription fee in other games) you will have a premium experience. AT LEAST in NW (and STO) this is a lot better thank in for instance SWTOR, which is way more P2W than NW or STO.

    Keep in mind that companies running these online games are commercial; of course they want to make money! Don't blame them for that. Nothing is truly free.

    I also disagree with the statement that there is not enough content. I've played since closed beta and I still haven't seen everything (my highest character has level 50 right now) so.. I don't know? Of course I play casual, meaning something 8-16 hours per week. I can imagine that if you play for 16 hours per day you will run out of content pretty soon. But I'm sure that that game was not designed to support players that much and offer a long term original experience.

    For me it's how Wikipedia describes it: "games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world". So I kinda missed the definition of "MMO" in your post, what does a "true to life MMORPG" mean for you?
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    No, I meant to say exactly what I said in the context I said it in.

    Playing games today simply requires no interaction with anyone, you are essentially playing a RPG online with the ability to see other people. This takes away from the MMO aspect.

    MMO's today are nothing but a gimmick people are clinging on to, nothing more, regardless how you want to chalk it up.

    The issue is not in the fact that games require little to no interaction or socialization with one another, it is in the fact that games today lack the content to support an MMO. Thats what the issue is. So its actually the other way around. Hence why I quoted this particular part:
    Crafting an experience that complements the game without overwhelming the wallets and expectations of their customer base — is well and truly dead in 2013.


    Companies are not interested in putting in the hard yards because they lack the grit, skill and self awareness to push their developers to produce something great. They rather release some sub-par produce that millions of people are willing to pay for but they continue to claim it as a triple A grade title.

    Content is king at the end of the day, run out of content = lose players, no amount of cash shop itemization or DLC will save you from that, unless of course the DLC has content in it, but then what kind of content are you getting access too and how long will it last then compound this with the fact that people won't continue to pay for DLC if they are not impressed with thier first or second purchases.

    Anyways, the MMORPG industry is failing, hard because companies have found a way to mooch the player base and they are all too none the wiser, which I do not expect them to be.

    So all we can do is hope that a kickstarter will come along and breath some fresh air into this MMORPG industry and release a game that warrants it being classed as a true MMORPG, not a gimmick.
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    koyvar wrote: »
    For me it's how Wikipedia describes it: "games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world". So I kinda missed the definition of "MMO" in your post, what does a "true to life MMORPG" mean for you?


    Emphasised.

    This games does not require that, at all. No game seems to anymore and most people can make thier way through the game without looking in another persons direction, at all.

    The simple fact remains that socializing and interaction is not the issue, the issue falls upons companies not releasing enough content to support an MMO, thats what the underlining issue is here.
  • vindlethvindleth Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I also live in a real world with lots of other ppl and i dont interact with them unless i want/need to. Why should I be forced to interact with someone in MMO just because it is a MMO.
  • noshiznoshiz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    vindleth wrote: »
    I also live in a real world with lots of other ppl and i dont interact with them unless i want/need to. Why should I be forced to interact with someone in MMO just because it is a MMO.

    +1

    If you want to socialize go ahead and do it, but don't force others to do so.
    fs_49316d8a5de21281b0f4fc8f0089006b.png
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    vindleth wrote: »
    I also live in a real world with lots of other ppl and i dont interact with them unless i want/need to. Why should I be forced to interact with someone in MMO just because it is a MMO.
    noshiz wrote: »
    +1

    If you want to socialize go ahead and do it, but don't force others to do so.

    Which only further reinforces my point of view.

    If you want single player gaming, go play a single player game.

    If you want social interaction, people play MMO's, thats been part and parcel of MMO gaming since the day is was born and its been its niche, hence wikipedia's definition supporting what I am saying.

    Again, let me clarify, the issue is not solely upon socializing and interaction, it is also the fact that there is not enough content implemented to support a MMO title in todays genre.

    Anyways, you guys are taking this out of context, compairing it to real life? Really? Read that post linked in the OP for a better understanding.
  • noshiznoshiz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    The thing is that just because is MMO it doesn't mean that u have to run around and talk/socialize with everyone, you will get to meet a few people and keep contact with 1 or 2 of them, and that's it. That's how it was and that's how it will be. It has nothing to do with the game itself, but it has to do with the human and his interactions with others.

    What i can understand that you are asking is content that will require some basic communication between players so they can manage and get through it, e.x talk about tactics on a boss/quest/pvp/whatever, and maybe after than content is done, become friends or team or move to the next one.

    If that's what you are saying, i will agree with you that everything is too easy and requires zero communication (if ofc you already know what to do) so maybe something harder (haven't really been in Castle Never too see if it requires or not communication) should be implemented later into the game and even maybe a raid with 10 ppl.

    If that's not what you are saying, then i am sorry but i still didn't get your point.
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  • noshiznoshiz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    taemekeg wrote: »
    Which only further reinforces my point of view.

    If you want single player gaming, go play a single player game.

    If you want social interaction, people play MMO's,
    thats been part and parcel of MMO gaming since the day is was born and its been its niche, hence wikipedia's definition supporting what I am saying.

    Again, let me clarify, the issue is not solely upon socializing and interaction, it is also the fact that there is not enough content implemented to support a MMO title in todays genre.

    Anyways, you guys are taking this out of context, compairing it to real life? Really? Read that post linked in the OP for a better understanding.

    Also, you are wrong at these points. When i want to play single player, i do so, but by playing MMO doesn't mean i want to socialize, not that much at least, talk to a friend or a few ppl that i might have to cooperate, yes, but nothing more than that.
    fs_49316d8a5de21281b0f4fc8f0089006b.png
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    You are starting to get my point.
  • e11ze11z Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    i agree that some of the games coming out are becoming increasingly awful.

    But I don't believe you technically NEED to join a guild.

    For me it's a place where you meet random people when out on your adventure and you then have the decision whether to interact or not.

    And yesterday i had that where 2 people came up to me and was asking if i had seen a certain mob.

    I didn't know so i asked if they could share the quest and then we spent a good hour looking for the mob.

    in the end they went afk and i found it, and killed it :)

    The thing that sucks so much and is such a simple mistake on the devs part, is that there are no REAL OPEN WORLD INCENTIVES.

    I mean how hard is it to put mobs out in the world where some are soloable - and some are not that give REAL decent loot.

    It's the way the devs encourage you to stand in cities waiting for Matchmaking. where instead they could put the same loot as in the Dungeons, and stick them on mobs in the open world.

    You will notice the difference in games where there are incentives in the open world and those where there are none.

    Aion for example - had world bosses where you NEEDED at least 5 people to do it. It was recommended to do it with 20. And it gave good stuff.

    Also theres no open world PVP incentive. And this would be great for the PVP community. But again - if it ain't there, you ain't getting the interaction that people enjoy.
    The enemies and the allies and the revenge or the saviors.

    2 simple things that would make an MMO a really fun one, would be just to add usable loot in the open world, and open world pvp that comes with rewards.

    Both of which are difficult and pointless to exploit. Since if you do it properly, it's no quicker then going in a dungeon with a premade and farming a well planned dungeon.
    The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
  • jjb828jjb828 Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For me, MMO's died around 2010/2011. I had fun with Guild Wars (1, not 2, for you people who don't know) up until almost 2012, which is when my comp crapped on me basically. That game had a lot of interaction. between Missions, PvP, and Farming for good gear. For most missions, you could have about 4 to 8 people. For PvP, you could have 4 people, or in Hall of Heroes/Guild Battles, you could have 8 people. Farming, you could have up to 8 also.

    Usually, it required you and your team to work together and know eachother's builds. It was actually fun, and kept me well for years (Despite having a max level of 20, the amount of skills and build combos were golden). Builds aren't needed in this game as there's a total of 20ish skills per class, while Guild Wars had hundreds for each class...

    I base my MMO experience on my past experiences, and none has been as good as some of my first experiences. Sad, really, as things should get better over time
    Check out the Neverwinter/ESO guild Rogue's Gallery! While you're at our forums, submit an application and join our glorious regime!
  • rictrasrictras Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 239 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Did you notice the article you linked to is not about mmos?
    The meaning of life, is to give life meaning.
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Don't see much relation between the article and the OP. DLC are a completely separate issue from F2P models, and certainly a more complex one than the article states. DLC vary in nature, size and type, so you can't just condemn all of it. The consideration of "value for money" is as alive in this age as it was in the age of expansions.

    As for the rest, OP seems to want to force everyone to play his way or not play at all. Doesn't work like that. Besides, good devs will expand, not restrict, players' options. Variety is always good.
  • elawynelawyn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Forced interaction doesn't work too well.

    'Encouraged' interaction does.
  • undeadcrabbundeadcrabb Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    taemekeg wrote: »
    If you want single player gaming, go play a single player game.
    I, as a player who often goes solo, strongly disagree, and here's why:
    1.)I chose to play an mmo, so I can play with my friends. I am a very shy person, and I don't feel comfortable comunicating with strangers. So, in short - I group only with friends, not with strangers(unless it is necessary). And, since I'm a shy person, I don't have many friends. And they can't be alvays online. But I like the game, so I go solo. If I play a singleplayer game, I won't be able to play with my friends.
    But why do I choose toplay an mmo, when my friends are offline? Because I like it! The game is interesting! It has nice content and it has foundry! I can make my own quests, I even have started to make one, and I can play other peoples quests! Isn't it the best thing about NW? How many MMO's can alow you to do that?
    3.)When you are saying, that because I like to solo, I shouldn't play an MMO, you are ignorant to the fact, that there are many people who like MMO's not for interactions with other players, but for the game's content! I could go and play a singleplayer game, but I don't want to, because Neverwinter is awesome!
    Folow me on Deviant art! ;)
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    rictras wrote: »
    Did you notice the article you linked to is not about mmos?

    Just because he uses games such as Sims and Starcraft as examples does not mean there is no correlation between the entire context of what he is refering too as Sims and Starcraft can easily be considered MMO's to some extent given that people in this thread have also acknowledged that MMO gaming = playing online with others.

    That is beside the point, DLC is in MMO gaming just as much as it is with consoles and PC gaming for single player titles, the only difference is, it is classed as a cash shop or content updates which again, fits in to what he is refering too when companies tend to mooch us.
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I, as a player who often goes solo, strongly disagree, and here's why:
    1.)I chose to play an mmo, so I can play with my friends. I am a very shy person, and I don't feel comfortable comunicating with strangers. So, in short - I group only with friends, not with strangers(unless it is necessary). And, since I'm a shy person, I don't have many friends. And they can't be alvays online. But I like the game, so I go solo. If I play a singleplayer game, I won't be able to play with my friends.
    But why do I choose toplay an mmo, when my friends are offline? Because I like it! The game is interesting! It has nice content and it has foundry! I can make my own quests, I even have started to make one, and I can play other peoples quests! Isn't it the best thing about NW? How many MMO's can alow you to do that?
    3.)When you are saying, that because I like to solo, I shouldn't play an MMO, you are ignorant to the fact, that there are many people who like MMO's not for interactions with other players, but for the game's content! I could go and play a singleplayer game, but I don't want to, because Neverwinter is awesome!

    No one is saying that there should be a harsh mandatory requirement to group up.

    What I, and many are seeing in my post is, that the content currently being constantly spewed out on us revolves around solo game play now and because of this lack of content, these titles are simply not worth being classes as MMORPG's anymore.

    Lack of content is what is killing these genre of MMO gaming in a fantasy setting.
  • taemekegtaemekeg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 298 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    elawyn wrote: »
    Forced interaction doesn't work too well.

    'Encouraged' interaction does.


    Agree 100%.
  • undeadcrabbundeadcrabb Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    On that, I do agree. Most content, except dungeons, is made for one player and a companion. I think I even read it in the game tips, that are shown during NW loading screen.
    Folow me on Deviant art! ;)
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