Several people I talked to in game couldn't understand why they lost all the items and xp recently acquired (because they don't keep up with the forums). If you just wiped their characters I am pretty certain the game would lose almost all credibility in the eyes of the many players that don't have the time or inclination to hang out here.
To be honest the exploiters haven't impacted me at all except for the rollback and extended server downtime. As long as the exploits are patched, in time the economy will right itself.
Sadly the few of us who seem to be trying to be the voice of reason here on the forums are in a minority, I 100% agree with the above
He is actually talking about the community as a whole.. he stated to read the news sites etc.. not just the forum goers.. looking on twitter and facebook as well, you have those that are wanting it as well..
...and how many of those are unique to the forums? All of them? None of them? Is this another 1k total votes is a vast majority thing?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
I'm a paying customer and I do not want a wipe. I wanted a rollback, which we got. I wanted them to look carefully in the AD issue, and they did (exchange and AH are still disabled). I hoped people would get banned, and they did/are getting banned.
I do not want, or see any need for, a server wipe.
Agreed.
The one thing that really amuses me is that many people actually demand a wipe, because of all the other big and small exploits happening on top of the AH bug, which are still going on. Skipping 2nd boss in the pirate king's lair, getting the spider queen to suicide jump and what have you. These exploits are there, they're probably gonna be used a whole LOT until they get fixed, yet people see them as a reason to ask for a wipe right here and now. And then what? Those who used these exploits in the first place will use them again. And find new ones. And still make millions of astral diamonds, control the auction house and set the prices. It's hilarious how some people seem to consider a server wipe some kind of magical solution to all exploit problems. Sure, it'll take care of these fabled mule account with a hundred million diamonds each, but it won't stop the exploitation of all the many broken and flawed gameplay mechanics, which are still in there and are going to remain in this game for quite some time. A wipe might reset that for a week or so before exploiters flood the AH with the best gear all over again, set the prices, control the market, yada, yada, yada. Screaming for a wipe is so shortsighted...
..they wont wipe because..They will lose money, all the people who bought founders packs and stuff will be a lot more selective with there Zen,instead of spending it like drunken sailors like I did lol. There by actualy extending there need not too buy more if ever
THAT'S what patch notes for an open beta are supposed to look like. What does NW have to show for it? Some fixes that were not even important at all? While the devs and the game were pretty much aware of the AH bug, GF 1shot bug, CW million damage bug, etc. since the beginning of the game.
What do they patch? Let me bring back some stuff from last patch notes.
Click detection on touch screens is now much more consistent.
Professions now consistently gray out tasks above the player's level and show eligible tasks normally.
The Date column in Mail now sorts properly.
The 10-minute Auction consignment duration has been removed from the mobile layout.
The mobile auction house no longer has the "All Categories" option.
The mobile layout now uses "infinite scrolling" rather than pagination for the guild roster and profession task list.
The Professions filter is now more usable in the mobile layout.
Tooltips have been added to confirmation dialogs (and other dialogs of that type).
When hiding Profession tasks above your level, the filter description now matches the game.
When the Gateway page updates, the Professions Search box now maintains focus if the player already had focus on it.
Nothing more to say really, if you're aware of so many high priority glitches and errors (tickets have been submitted since the start), why would you pursue these fixes when the others are way more gamebreaking?
Why did the AH bug carry over from Cryptic's old game Star Trek Online to Neverwinter? I mean obviously they copy pasted the code, but clearly it was old code, because they even failed to copy/paste the right version. -_-
Absolutely ridiculous. Cryptic and PWI deserve to fail together.
A lot of people on the forums wanted a wipe, true. Some said that they'd quit if Cryptic did not perform a wipe. I, my self, said that I'd quit if they did perform a wipe.
Yet, the people that said they'd quit if a wipe wasn't performed, are still here demanding a wipe. OMG. Why are they still here if they said they'd quit. JUST QUIT! Why bother visiting the forums if you quit? It's pointless to still demand a wipe when you know it won't happen.
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forumralcoreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited May 2013
Asking for a wipe isn't "nearsighted" (I assume you mean shortsighted) at all. Its thinking about the effects down the line, in the long term. Calling for NO wipe is shortsighted, trying to save at best a few weeks gaming time. And trust me, this effects everyone. You can't turn AD into Zen if nobody buys Zen for conversion, due to lack of faith in the economy. I thought about this on my drive home, about what all the players would say if polled upon logging into the game; I keep hitting the problem where people simply don't realize how deep this issue runs. So, I ask you all this:
If, upon logging into Neverwinter, every account (once per IP) had to vote WIPE or NO WIPE, what do you honestly think the response would be? Before you answer, there's one catch. Before a vote can be entered, each user is presented with graphs, charts, and explanations of ALL the ACTUAL, REAL data DIRECTLY from PWE which DETAILS the FULL EXTENT of the damage from this exploit and the general state of the economy in a way everyone could clearly understand.
Personally, I think some people might change their minds if they really understood what is at stake.
You must be one of those simple people, there were 5 polls. In total over 20k votes, with an overwhelming 78% average for a complete wipe.
Yes, and we know the polls are SO accurate, even though people have multiple accounts to vote and skew the polls. Nevermind, that the people in the forums are not representative of the whole player base, the majority of which do not visit the forums.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
You must be one of those simple people, there were 5 polls. In total over 20k votes, with an overwhelming 78% average for a complete wipe.
you don't count all the votes together from 5 polls. That is the same people voting 5 times. Seriously, like I said before no poll done on the forums is representative of the whole player base. When one group of people want something they feel effects their ability to play they flood the forums. The problem with this is the group for the other side most are busy playing not paying attention to forums, therefore are not represented as they should be. Until Cryptic does a game wide poll any poll on the forums means <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
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forumralcoreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
Yes, and we know the polls are SO accurate, even though people have multiple accounts to vote and skew the polls. Nevermind, that the people in the forums are not representative of the whole player base, the majority of which do not visit the forums.
How do we know people AGAINST the wipe aren't so desperate that they created multiple accounts in an attempt to make the polls seem less overwhelming? That argument can go both ways. There's also no way to prove its NOT representative of the whole player base; while obviously not all players voted, it could easily come out to the same numbers. Point is, there's no way of knowing, so why assume the polls we DO have are wrong? Because they don't back up your argument, that's why.
How do we know people AGAINST the wipe aren't so desperate that they created multiple accounts in an attempt to make the polls seem less overwhelming? That argument can go both ways. There's also no way to prove its NOT representative of the whole player base; while obviously not all players voted, it could easily come out to the same numbers. Point is, there's no way of knowing, so why assume the polls we DO have are wrong? Because they don't back up your argument, that's why.
Yes, you are right. So, those polls are worthless.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
How do we know people AGAINST the wipe aren't so desperate that they created multiple accounts in an attempt to make the polls seem less overwhelming? That argument can go both ways. There's also no way to prove its NOT representative of the whole player base; while obviously not all players voted, it could easily come out to the same numbers. Point is, there's no way of knowing, so why assume the polls we DO have are wrong? Because they don't back up your argument, that's why.
See you can't trust the polls.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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forumralcoreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm starting to like the idea of a new Server more and more. It seems like the only way to please both sides. It would be nice if Founders or all people who used real money had the option to have their Zen (or Founders AD) restored and their accounts reset, and reroll on the fresh servers, free of this disaster.
I'm starting to like the idea of a new Server more and more. It seems like the only way to please both sides. It would be nice if Founders or all people who used real money had the option to have their Zen (or Founders AD) restored and their accounts reset, and reroll on the fresh servers, free of this disaster.
What's the point? All shards will be merged into one. Cryptic stated that plan long ago.
Several people I talked to in game couldn't understand why they lost all the items and xp recently acquired (because they don't keep up with the forums). If you just wiped their characters I am pretty certain the game would lose almost all credibility in the eyes of the many players that don't have the time or inclination to hang out here.
To be honest the exploiters haven't impacted me at all except for the rollback and extended server downtime. As long as the exploits are patched, in time the economy will right itself.
One of the guys in my guild noticed he had lost levels. He ranted for 5 minutes before asking why the roll-back and then continued to rant for another 30 minutes before logging off to go for a walk - this was only over 7 hours of progress and apparently the fact there were exploiters and the world was coming to an end didn't matter to him, he wanted his progress back! And then there was the rage in zone chat, the streaming of rage over a 7 hour roll back in zone chat..... It has settled a lot now and people are just eager to see what kind of present they get for the roll back. I myself favored a wipe only marginally and that was because I regret spending my zen on a pet, and I accidentally gave my wizard companion a girl's name because I thought it would be a girl and I'm too cheap to spend AD to rename him.
The people on the forums only represent a fraction of the people that actually play. The people that actually play are too busy having fun and they will continue to spend money on this game no matter how stupid some people say they are, because they don't care/notice what those people say.
Paying players, f2p players, and more than Cryptic / NWI wants to admint about wiping the servers.
Cryptic / NWI, take the time today to go out and read some of the news sites, your game is in EPIC FAIL category of the year all over the place!!
Nice 7 hour roll back with a few thank you cards that wont amount to anything.
All over the inet there is proof of your knowledge of the exploits, the reports made about the exploits weeks ago, even on your own forums you removed posts detailing the exploits and had to post a thread dated back on May 11th telling people not to post about the exploits!
For you to come out and say that Sunday morning you guys found out about an exploit and had to shut down the servers is an absolute lie to our faces.
All the flame gear is on so go ahead and start your little remarks about how this is not the case and all that **** you guys put out here, but I have one question for Cryptic / NWI, its the same question that most of the news sites are trying to find out right now, as quoted from them in these threads like this;
Why not wipe the servers if the public is asking for it, your game is still in open beta?
When the company(ies) come forward and answer that question, then perhaps this FUBAR can be put behind us!!
Because many people oppose the wipe as well. Sorry
Also many of those that go to those "sites." are people that want the wipe. They're simply the loud minority. The economy is fine. I keep saying that people laugh at this statement but I challenge them to list items that are worth way more than the zen equivalents or explain what exactly is so valued for the time it takes to farm the astrals. No one can do it. No one can explain to me how before this big explosion the economy is bad. Even epics are reasonably priced. Priced well enough that even casuals can afford to buy them from simply doing dailies. Let alone actually putting stuff up from the epic dungeons as well.
The major exploit is gone. The economy is fine.
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akikisaragiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Paying players, f2p players, and more than Cryptic / NWI wants to admint about wiping the servers.
Cryptic / NWI, take the time today to go out and read some of the news sites, your game is in EPIC FAIL category of the year all over the place!!
Nice 7 hour roll back with a few thank you cards that wont amount to anything.
All over the inet there is proof of your knowledge of the exploits, the reports made about the exploits weeks ago, even on your own forums you removed posts detailing the exploits and had to post a thread dated back on May 11th telling people not to post about the exploits!
For you to come out and say that Sunday morning you guys found out about an exploit and had to shut down the servers is an absolute lie to our faces.
All the flame gear is on so go ahead and start your little remarks about how this is not the case and all that **** you guys put out here, but I have one question for Cryptic / NWI, its the same question that most of the news sites are trying to find out right now, as quoted from them in these threads like this;
Why not wipe the servers if the public is asking for it, your game is still in open beta?
When the company(ies) come forward and answer that question, then perhaps this FUBAR can be put behind us!!
You paid for virtual goods. This "public" you mention is who? The fraction of the 5% of the community that posts on the forums? Do you seriously believe that whatever the number on the poll was the "public"?
You know, the OP could solve his own issue entirely merely by deleting his characters & uninstalling the game.
Seems like the perfect solution to me I know I'll be happier.
Bori - Renegade Drow - 40 Trickster Rogue - Mindflayer Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
So in all I read 2 reasons for a wipe or rather 2 rolled into one.
1. Mule accounts that stashed up AD to be flooded back later. I'm no expert but as several people pointed out the game has only been live for a few weeks, backlogs of all transactions should exist and a fresh acc with that much cash would be traceable and have no legitimate way of having said cash.Those accs can be banned, now or once they surface.
2. The economy is irrepairably damaged. The economy can stabilize itself, most people who made that argument stated that in a few months the economy would crash because off the mule accounts, however the game-economy much like the real one is subject to inflation and a lot of it, AD is created from thin air (daily quests) at a pretty high rate. Sinks like AD NPC merchants and Zen excange will only take a small part of that. AD will inflate, in a few months people flooding the market will have already lost much of the value that they cheated through the glitch.
I don't know enough about the companies involved to say if they clean up the issue as much as they should but I will give them the benefit of the doubt. If they wipe the servers, so be it. If I don't like where the game is going I'll stop playing nobody is forcing me to do so.
(before you jump on any spelling mistakes I might have made, this is not my native language. and bashing on spelling and grammar is lazy anyways and in no way proves your intelligence, it just means you pull all the stops to discredit someone)
So in all I read 2 reasons for a wipe or rather 2 rolled into one.
1. Mule accounts that stashed up AD to be flooded back later. I'm no expert but as several people pointed out the game has only been live for a few weeks, backlogs of all transactions should exist and a fresh acc with that much cash would be traceable and have no legitimate way of having said cash.Those accs can be banned, now or once they surface.
2. The economy is irrepairably damaged. The economy can stabilize itself, most people who made that argument stated that in a few months the economy would crash because off the mule accounts, however the game-economy much like the real one is subject to inflation and a lot of it, AD is created from thin air (daily quests) at a pretty high rate. Sinks like AD NPC merchants and Zen excange will only take a small part of that. AD will inflate, in a few months people flooding the market will have already lost much of the value that they cheated through the glitch.
I don't know enough about the companies involved to say if they clean up the issue as much as they should but I will give them the benefit of the doubt. If they wipe the servers, so be it. If I don't like where the game is going I'll stop playing nobody is forcing me to do so.
(before you jump on any spelling mistakes I might have made, this is not my native language. and bashing on spelling and grammar is lazy anyways and in no way proves your intelligence, it just means you pull all the stops to discredit someone)
Comments
Sadly the few of us who seem to be trying to be the voice of reason here on the forums are in a minority, I 100% agree with the above
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
...and how many of those are unique to the forums? All of them? None of them? Is this another 1k total votes is a vast majority thing?
The one thing that really amuses me is that many people actually demand a wipe, because of all the other big and small exploits happening on top of the AH bug, which are still going on. Skipping 2nd boss in the pirate king's lair, getting the spider queen to suicide jump and what have you. These exploits are there, they're probably gonna be used a whole LOT until they get fixed, yet people see them as a reason to ask for a wipe right here and now. And then what? Those who used these exploits in the first place will use them again. And find new ones. And still make millions of astral diamonds, control the auction house and set the prices. It's hilarious how some people seem to consider a server wipe some kind of magical solution to all exploit problems. Sure, it'll take care of these fabled mule account with a hundred million diamonds each, but it won't stop the exploitation of all the many broken and flawed gameplay mechanics, which are still in there and are going to remain in this game for quite some time. A wipe might reset that for a week or so before exploiters flood the AH with the best gear all over again, set the prices, control the market, yada, yada, yada. Screaming for a wipe is so shortsighted...
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/patch-notes
THAT'S what patch notes for an open beta are supposed to look like. What does NW have to show for it? Some fixes that were not even important at all? While the devs and the game were pretty much aware of the AH bug, GF 1shot bug, CW million damage bug, etc. since the beginning of the game.
What do they patch? Let me bring back some stuff from last patch notes.
Click detection on touch screens is now much more consistent.
Professions now consistently gray out tasks above the player's level and show eligible tasks normally.
The Date column in Mail now sorts properly.
The 10-minute Auction consignment duration has been removed from the mobile layout.
The mobile auction house no longer has the "All Categories" option.
The mobile layout now uses "infinite scrolling" rather than pagination for the guild roster and profession task list.
The Professions filter is now more usable in the mobile layout.
Tooltips have been added to confirmation dialogs (and other dialogs of that type).
When hiding Profession tasks above your level, the filter description now matches the game.
When the Gateway page updates, the Professions Search box now maintains focus if the player already had focus on it.
Nothing more to say really, if you're aware of so many high priority glitches and errors (tickets have been submitted since the start), why would you pursue these fixes when the others are way more gamebreaking?
Why did the AH bug carry over from Cryptic's old game Star Trek Online to Neverwinter? I mean obviously they copy pasted the code, but clearly it was old code, because they even failed to copy/paste the right version. -_-
Absolutely ridiculous. Cryptic and PWI deserve to fail together.
wipe the game (even tho you wont) but u should
Yet, the people that said they'd quit if a wipe wasn't performed, are still here demanding a wipe. OMG. Why are they still here if they said they'd quit. JUST QUIT! Why bother visiting the forums if you quit? It's pointless to still demand a wipe when you know it won't happen.
If, upon logging into Neverwinter, every account (once per IP) had to vote WIPE or NO WIPE, what do you honestly think the response would be? Before you answer, there's one catch. Before a vote can be entered, each user is presented with graphs, charts, and explanations of ALL the ACTUAL, REAL data DIRECTLY from PWE which DETAILS the FULL EXTENT of the damage from this exploit and the general state of the economy in a way everyone could clearly understand.
Personally, I think some people might change their minds if they really understood what is at stake.
You must be one of those simple people, there were 5 polls. In total over 20k votes, with an overwhelming 78% average for a complete wipe.
Yes, and we know the polls are SO accurate, even though people have multiple accounts to vote and skew the polls. Nevermind, that the people in the forums are not representative of the whole player base, the majority of which do not visit the forums.
Like you can't game an internet poll in 3 seconds.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How do we know people AGAINST the wipe aren't so desperate that they created multiple accounts in an attempt to make the polls seem less overwhelming? That argument can go both ways. There's also no way to prove its NOT representative of the whole player base; while obviously not all players voted, it could easily come out to the same numbers. Point is, there's no way of knowing, so why assume the polls we DO have are wrong? Because they don't back up your argument, that's why.
Yes, you are right. So, those polls are worthless.
See you can't trust the polls.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What's the point? All shards will be merged into one. Cryptic stated that plan long ago.
One of the guys in my guild noticed he had lost levels. He ranted for 5 minutes before asking why the roll-back and then continued to rant for another 30 minutes before logging off to go for a walk - this was only over 7 hours of progress and apparently the fact there were exploiters and the world was coming to an end didn't matter to him, he wanted his progress back! And then there was the rage in zone chat, the streaming of rage over a 7 hour roll back in zone chat..... It has settled a lot now and people are just eager to see what kind of present they get for the roll back. I myself favored a wipe only marginally and that was because I regret spending my zen on a pet, and I accidentally gave my wizard companion a girl's name because I thought it would be a girl and I'm too cheap to spend AD to rename him.
The people on the forums only represent a fraction of the people that actually play. The people that actually play are too busy having fun and they will continue to spend money on this game no matter how stupid some people say they are, because they don't care/notice what those people say.
Because many people oppose the wipe as well. Sorry
Also many of those that go to those "sites." are people that want the wipe. They're simply the loud minority. The economy is fine. I keep saying that people laugh at this statement but I challenge them to list items that are worth way more than the zen equivalents or explain what exactly is so valued for the time it takes to farm the astrals. No one can do it. No one can explain to me how before this big explosion the economy is bad. Even epics are reasonably priced. Priced well enough that even casuals can afford to buy them from simply doing dailies. Let alone actually putting stuff up from the epic dungeons as well.
The major exploit is gone. The economy is fine.
You paid for virtual goods. This "public" you mention is who? The fraction of the 5% of the community that posts on the forums? Do you seriously believe that whatever the number on the poll was the "public"?
Seems like the perfect solution to me
Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance ? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
1. Mule accounts that stashed up AD to be flooded back later. I'm no expert but as several people pointed out the game has only been live for a few weeks, backlogs of all transactions should exist and a fresh acc with that much cash would be traceable and have no legitimate way of having said cash.Those accs can be banned, now or once they surface.
2. The economy is irrepairably damaged. The economy can stabilize itself, most people who made that argument stated that in a few months the economy would crash because off the mule accounts, however the game-economy much like the real one is subject to inflation and a lot of it, AD is created from thin air (daily quests) at a pretty high rate. Sinks like AD NPC merchants and Zen excange will only take a small part of that. AD will inflate, in a few months people flooding the market will have already lost much of the value that they cheated through the glitch.
I don't know enough about the companies involved to say if they clean up the issue as much as they should but I will give them the benefit of the doubt. If they wipe the servers, so be it. If I don't like where the game is going I'll stop playing nobody is forcing me to do so.
(before you jump on any spelling mistakes I might have made, this is not my native language. and bashing on spelling and grammar is lazy anyways and in no way proves your intelligence, it just means you pull all the stops to discredit someone)
wat iz dis bad spellin' mon defawk ?!