I think a shadowrun game would be silly now, why not just make a life game. I mean really netlinks are just cell phones, most of the things in shadowrun is modern world stuff now lol.
I am liking the progress of Greed Monger however.
The problem today is all the kiddies want cool graphics and could care less about the gameplay itself. Example perfect example is Savage, Savage 1 (or Savage xr) is much better than savage 2, they went the pretty but who cares about play <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in savage 2.
Don't hate on my shadowrun! I still play the pen & paper!
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narathkorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Sadly DAoC was one of the best games ever. They killed it with a great expansion, the only problem was the expansion forced people out of pvp (RvR) and back into pve for months, this was not good for a game based around its PVP aspects so people left. Then even more sad, the original idea man tried to get funds to make camelot unchained and it did not get kickstarted.
Yeah right. When arcade games was hard as ****, that was just for the love of challenge, that had nothing to do with the fact that you had to pay everytime you died,right? When Capcom released like 15 different versions of Street Fighter 2, they only did it to offer a better and more balanced experience to their lovely players, right?
Warcraft was a great game up until Lich King or the months right before its release. In fact, probably the best era of gaming I ever enjoyed... outside of UO/EQ1 and one of the MUDs I played for years before that.
Nothing will ever replace the guild I was in and the hours we spent tackling MC/BWL/Naxx. Good times indeed. Sadly most of us are still chasing that pipe dream we will find those days again. The games change, but the people don't.
Everything has been going downhill since then.
No its really not downhill from there. It's just different. WoW captured a competitive PVE play style that no one else has been able to replicate to the same extent. The problem is not every MMO in the industry is even trying to compete on that level, but there is a group of players that assume every game MUST be trying to do that. When they find out that things aren't balanced or the hardcore content isn't there, then it MUST be a fail game. When in fact they just are trying to tease out something that may not even be a part of the game.
You can have foot races from Stormwind to Darnassus if you want, but then you can't complain that some people have epic mounts and others don't. Unless Blizzard put in the contest they have no obligation to make it balanced. PVP and PVE has no "ranking" associated with it in NW so why are people saying that it is competitive play?
This actually never happened. People always complained about video games, and the developers. The only difference is the internet gives wider audience than just your circle of friends.
Not really, Back when Wizardry and Ultima were the only two games of their kind, we were too busy playing the hell out of them to write to Richard Gariot or the guys at Sir-Tech we loved the games because we knew what it was like not to have ANY computer games
NOW it is all ***** ***** *****, especially since F2P has started...whiny people who have never produced anything for mass consumption whining instead of going and making something on their own...... which is I suppose the real difference....Richard G MADE Ultima, Greenberg and Woodhead invented Wizardry....if you dont like the games available to you...go code your own and see how well people like it It is still doable.
But then I come from the generation that created the Digital computer so my philosophy is not shared by younger types.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
I remember a time when people made video games for money. They still do.
If people made video games just for the fun of it then I wouldn't have had to pay $60 for them and then deal with the ****ty DRM. Chalk this thread and the OP up to #rosecoloredglasses.
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narathkorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
PVE playstyle, I remember a certain boss in a certain game where before he got nerfed one of the best strategies was to feed him your squishies till he leveled at least 8 times and became more vulnerable to melee. Anyone name that boss and game?
And I already looked at some of those games you listed previously, especially the Numeria one looked like something for me.
What to see on GoG...lol look through it there are a lot of games, no DRM, all updated to work well on modern computers and a lot of newer content too....there are games there I over looked at the time they came out but are still fun to play now.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
0
jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's a fancy and long way of saying, "Yeah, you are right."
Right but there is much more nuance than what you said in your one liner statement. The problem isn't that there is a wider audience it is that noisy people can make it seem like some problem is much bigger than it is. People don't bother vetting anything that people say and just repeat it over and over again. Hell people deny that they could possibly be wrong even in the face of evidence and fact.
The short of it is I enjoy this game...but it feels like PWE is doing everything they can to make the game unenjoyable for me unless I spend lots of money. I'm the type of person that if I'm pushed, I will dig in my heels. That is why I haven't spent any money on the game, or likely ever will.
You said you feel ripped off by just playing, so it sounded like you were not having fun.
I can't fully relate to having to spend a lot of money to have fun here, but my perspective may be skewed due to the benefits of the HotN pack. Still, the only thing my alts use is the T3 mount. I only bought a bag for my main character, which is now mostly empty. I bought 15M AD during headstart, but haven't spent them. What I did get are cats, though also probably needless because I haven't done many T2 runs lately (waiting for guildies to catch up) and I just level alts, do low level PvP, stuff like that.
I did buy some dyes, but those were cheap. I think if I had not purchased the founder packs, I would really only have bought an account-wide mount, maybe $10 for dyes, and a couple respec tokens. So $60, which is what I pay for most games (that I often don't play). I want to say ADs for a cat too, but I made much more than 1M in the AD, selling low/mid level crafting materials.
How much would you need to spend to fully enjoy the game?
I remember a time when people made video games for money. They still do.
If people made video games just for the fun of it then I wouldn't have had to pay $60 for them and then deal with the ****ty DRM. Chalk this thread and the OP up to #rosecoloredglasses.
Umm there has been DRM for as long as there has been Computer Games......I remember a popular DRM method back in 1980 that you had to tinker with your floppy drives inner electronics calibrations to even get some games working. And others had printed manuals with look up phrases, and then color coded plastic to reveal the password....I think you are the one who hasn't been around long enough to claim rose colored glasses.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
Not really, Back when Wizardry and Ultima were the only two games of their kind, we were too busy playing the hell out of them to write to Richard Gariot or the guys at Sir-Tech we loved the games because we knew what it was like not to have ANY computer games
NOW it is all ***** ***** *****, especially since F2P has started...whiny people who have never produced anything for mass consumption whining instead of going and making something on their own...... which is I suppose the real difference....Richard G MADE Ultima, Greenberg and Woodhead invented Wizardry....if you dont like the games available to you...go code your own and see how well people like it It is still doable.
But then I come from the generation that created the Digital computer so my philosophy is not shared by younger types.
Its not the game itself that bothers me. Im perfectly fine with the game. Its the major attitude change that happened in the new MMO era. There are two extremes. 1. Those who tell everyone else if they dont like it simply dont play. It shouldnt be too hard to understand that someone can provide feedback on what they think can be done better without being a complete hater. The other extreme is 2. If I dont get my way Im quitting. Many of these folks quit often and loudly only to tab back in and continue playing. They also quit repeatedly. This open beta/live stage is just over 2 weeks old now, and there are already people who have quite multiple times.
The major issue is that some have an extreme personality, and they expect everyone else to also have that extreme personality where everyone is either a complete fanboi or a complete hater. What they dont see is that the other 98% of folks who play are in this huge gray area in the middle, where they like the game but also feel compelled to post on how the experience can be better for them. This doesnt make them haters who should just go away if they dont like it.
Its not the game itself that bothers me. Im perfectly fine with the game. Its the major attitude change that happened in the new MMO era. There are two extremes. 1. Those who tell everyone else if they dont like it simply dont play. It shouldnt be too hard to understand that someone can provide feedback on what they think can be done better without being a complete hater. The other extreme is 2. If I dont get my way Im quitting. Many of these folks quit often and loudly only to tab back in and continue playing. They also quit repeatedly. This open beta/live stage is just over 2 weeks old now, and there are already people who have quite multiple times.
The major issue is that some have an extreme personality, and they expect everyone else to also have that extreme personality where everyone is either a complete fanboi or a complete hater. What they dont see is that the other 98% of folks who play are in this huge gray area in the middle, where they like the game but also feel compelled to post on how the experience can be better for them. This doesnt make them haters who should just go away if they dont like it.
Ok I can agree with that...its a fair assessment.
I will say I chalk a lot of the attitude up to poor parenting
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
I really hope that Kickstarters become successful, just seems to be a win-win situation and could really be an environment where devs can create some really interesting and quality titles.
What to see on GoG...lol look through it there are a lot of games, no DRM, all updated to work well on modern computers and a lot of newer content too....there are games there I over looked at the time they came out but are still fun to play now.
I'm very cautious when it comes to re-playing old games because often they are better in my mind than they are now on my computer. I recently re-opened my 1997 UO account, and the feeling just wasn't there. I miss the UO times, but I think what I really miss is the innocence, the sense of adventure, the newness. UO was a "Woah!" kind of never-seen-before experience back then. Like the first woman, or the first man. It may have sucked in many ways, but it was nevertheless memorable. (I think perhaps I just miss being in my 20s. Life seemed easier.)
There are many games like that for me. Dungeon Master, Elite, North & South, Dune, Stygian Abyss, many more. But if I look at them today, or even remakes like Legend of Grimrock, that "feel", that "pull", it's just not there. Civilization is probably the exception. I can play the original and still have a blast. (But I also like board games and play Go/Weiqi/Baduk, so abstract stuff works for me.) Sometimes I think that I have just become jaded, but then games like Borderlands 2 or Neverwinter hit me and I spend obscene, irresponsible amounts of time playing them, just like back then.
I recently bought Planescape: Torment on GoG. One of the greatest games I recall ever playing. But I'm almost afraid to play it again because I'm pretty sure it won't live up to my memories of it.
No its really not downhill from there. It's just different. WoW captured a competitive PVE play style that no one else has been able to replicate to the same extent. The problem is not every MMO in the industry is even trying to compete on that level, but there is a group of players that assume every game MUST be trying to do that. When they find out that things aren't balanced or the hardcore content isn't there, then it MUST be a fail game. When in fact they just are trying to tease out something that may not even be a part of the game.
You can have foot races from Stormwind to Darnassus if you want, but then you can't complain that some people have epic mounts and others don't. Unless Blizzard put in the contest they have no obligation to make it balanced. PVP and PVE has no "ranking" associated with it in NW so why are people saying that it is competitive play?
You can't go 5 minutes in Wow now without encountering some unpleasant human being in some way, shape or form. The first 2 years that was definitely not the case. Wow was actually quite pleasant all things considered at first. Yes, you had the occasional ninja-looter, or pvp griefer, or guild loot drama but nothing on a scale that it is today.
I'm very cautious when it comes to re-playing old games because often they are better in my mind than they are now on my computer.
Oh yeah I tend not to reply games I pled at the time, Like MoO or The Ultimas and Wizardries...I played them too much at the time but the games I skipped are kind of fun to run through when I have a bit of time and nothing better to do.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
Wow Kesemi.....Unfortunately I was out of the country for a number of years when that came out and CompuServe got rolling ..places that did not have good landlines for those old modems...but man Muds and Moos and those old games.....blast from the past for sure.
The comment from on person about "Unpleasant humans in MMOs" is the primary reason I tend to stick to single player games.
But when I can get a good group of friends together for things on line its a great night too.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
You can't go 5 minutes in Wow now without encountering some unpleasant human being in some way, shape or form. The first 2 years that was definitely not the case. Wow was actually quite pleasant all things considered at first. Yes, you had the occasional ninja-looter, or pvp griefer, or guild loot drama but nothing on a scale that it is today.
I call that downhill.
Also, standards rise when something is added to an overcrowded market, if people are expecting the "next world of warcraft" it's because that's the standard that has been set. You don't reinvent the wheel, but make it square, and made of cardboard because it's cheaper to do so.
As for the rise in unpleasantness, you can attribute that to the cross server technology, neutering the communities ability to deal with problem players without developer interference, if you were a known muppet back in old WOW, you were going to be told where to stick it if you tried to get into a group. Now you just queue up and never have to worry about the repercussions of being horrid.
I remember when I figured out I could slide under blocks in Super Mario Brothers. It blew my mind. Then I figured out the infinite 1up turtle on stair trick. My universe imploded.
Omg, I remember that too XD Getting so many lives the game used random graphics for them. And somehow as a kid, you knew what the random graphics meant for numbers.
I imagine many people never got the chance because it was obscenely expensive to play. At the time I was working for a publisher of German gaming/computer magazines, running their CS forums, and they provided me with a sponsored account. This allowed me to play LoK for free! My virtual bills were in the $2000/month range! I loved that game. Sadly, UO killed it. It actually had a friendly community too. I remember on my first day I was welcomed by a bunch of people who gave me free stuff and accompanied me to the first floors.
Are any of you playing Spiderweb Software's games? Those are a bit similar and old school. I keep meaning to finish Avalon, but somehow I keep getting distracted.
Yes when it was about proving you can create a world that is beyond anything anyone has seen before. It was like creating art or writing books. We have lost that an games now are just fast ways for corporations to make money and no pride in the art work involved.. Both gamers and corporations are at fault here.
This reminds me, I need to go back and play the original XCOM games. I thought the reboot was a decent modern game and missed out on those for some reason.
Comments
Don't hate on my shadowrun! I still play the pen & paper!
The Sins of the Father NW-DLN6BC8NX
A Name For Yourself NW-DRBWMCFL4
Click Here To Visit The Official Thread
No its really not downhill from there. It's just different. WoW captured a competitive PVE play style that no one else has been able to replicate to the same extent. The problem is not every MMO in the industry is even trying to compete on that level, but there is a group of players that assume every game MUST be trying to do that. When they find out that things aren't balanced or the hardcore content isn't there, then it MUST be a fail game. When in fact they just are trying to tease out something that may not even be a part of the game.
You can have foot races from Stormwind to Darnassus if you want, but then you can't complain that some people have epic mounts and others don't. Unless Blizzard put in the contest they have no obligation to make it balanced. PVP and PVE has no "ranking" associated with it in NW so why are people saying that it is competitive play?
I got to play P&P once. It was glorious
Not really, Back when Wizardry and Ultima were the only two games of their kind, we were too busy playing the hell out of them to write to Richard Gariot or the guys at Sir-Tech we loved the games because we knew what it was like not to have ANY computer games
NOW it is all ***** ***** *****, especially since F2P has started...whiny people who have never produced anything for mass consumption whining instead of going and making something on their own...... which is I suppose the real difference....Richard G MADE Ultima, Greenberg and Woodhead invented Wizardry....if you dont like the games available to you...go code your own and see how well people like it
But then I come from the generation that created the Digital computer so my philosophy is not shared by younger types.
If people made video games just for the fun of it then I wouldn't have had to pay $60 for them and then deal with the ****ty DRM. Chalk this thread and the OP up to #rosecoloredglasses.
The Sins of the Father NW-DLN6BC8NX
A Name For Yourself NW-DRBWMCFL4
Click Here To Visit The Official Thread
What to see on GoG...lol look through it there are a lot of games, no DRM, all updated to work well on modern computers and a lot of newer content too....there are games there I over looked at the time they came out but are still fun to play now.
Right but there is much more nuance than what you said in your one liner statement. The problem isn't that there is a wider audience it is that noisy people can make it seem like some problem is much bigger than it is. People don't bother vetting anything that people say and just repeat it over and over again. Hell people deny that they could possibly be wrong even in the face of evidence and fact.
You said you feel ripped off by just playing, so it sounded like you were not having fun.
I can't fully relate to having to spend a lot of money to have fun here, but my perspective may be skewed due to the benefits of the HotN pack. Still, the only thing my alts use is the T3 mount. I only bought a bag for my main character, which is now mostly empty. I bought 15M AD during headstart, but haven't spent them. What I did get are cats, though also probably needless because I haven't done many T2 runs lately (waiting for guildies to catch up) and I just level alts, do low level PvP, stuff like that.
I did buy some dyes, but those were cheap. I think if I had not purchased the founder packs, I would really only have bought an account-wide mount, maybe $10 for dyes, and a couple respec tokens. So $60, which is what I pay for most games (that I often don't play). I want to say ADs for a cat too, but I made much more than 1M in the AD, selling low/mid level crafting materials.
How much would you need to spend to fully enjoy the game?
Umm there has been DRM for as long as there has been Computer Games......I remember a popular DRM method back in 1980 that you had to tinker with your floppy drives inner electronics calibrations to even get some games working. And others had printed manuals with look up phrases, and then color coded plastic to reveal the password....I think you are the one who hasn't been around long enough to claim rose colored glasses.
Its not the game itself that bothers me. Im perfectly fine with the game. Its the major attitude change that happened in the new MMO era. There are two extremes. 1. Those who tell everyone else if they dont like it simply dont play. It shouldnt be too hard to understand that someone can provide feedback on what they think can be done better without being a complete hater. The other extreme is 2. If I dont get my way Im quitting. Many of these folks quit often and loudly only to tab back in and continue playing. They also quit repeatedly. This open beta/live stage is just over 2 weeks old now, and there are already people who have quite multiple times.
The major issue is that some have an extreme personality, and they expect everyone else to also have that extreme personality where everyone is either a complete fanboi or a complete hater. What they dont see is that the other 98% of folks who play are in this huge gray area in the middle, where they like the game but also feel compelled to post on how the experience can be better for them. This doesnt make them haters who should just go away if they dont like it.
Hmm can't name it wasnt one I played but it had to be at least late 1980s
Ok I can agree with that...its a fair assessment.
I will say I chalk a lot of the attitude up to poor parenting
I really hope that Kickstarters become successful, just seems to be a win-win situation and could really be an environment where devs can create some really interesting and quality titles.
I'm very cautious when it comes to re-playing old games because often they are better in my mind than they are now on my computer.
There are many games like that for me. Dungeon Master, Elite, North & South, Dune, Stygian Abyss, many more. But if I look at them today, or even remakes like Legend of Grimrock, that "feel", that "pull", it's just not there. Civilization is probably the exception. I can play the original and still have a blast. (But I also like board games and play Go/Weiqi/Baduk, so abstract stuff works for me.) Sometimes I think that I have just become jaded, but then games like Borderlands 2 or Neverwinter hit me and I spend obscene, irresponsible amounts of time playing them, just like back then.
I recently bought Planescape: Torment on GoG. One of the greatest games I recall ever playing. But I'm almost afraid to play it again because I'm pretty sure it won't live up to my memories of it.
That was Legends of Kesmai. I played that on CompuServe, prior to UO. I don't remember any names, though.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
You can't go 5 minutes in Wow now without encountering some unpleasant human being in some way, shape or form. The first 2 years that was definitely not the case. Wow was actually quite pleasant all things considered at first. Yes, you had the occasional ninja-looter, or pvp griefer, or guild loot drama but nothing on a scale that it is today.
I call that downhill.
Oh yeah I tend not to reply games I pled at the time, Like MoO or The Ultimas and Wizardries...I played them too much at the time but the games I skipped are kind of fun to run through when I have a bit of time and nothing better to do.
The comment from on person about "Unpleasant humans in MMOs" is the primary reason I tend to stick to single player games.
But when I can get a good group of friends together for things on line its a great night too.
Also, standards rise when something is added to an overcrowded market, if people are expecting the "next world of warcraft" it's because that's the standard that has been set. You don't reinvent the wheel, but make it square, and made of cardboard because it's cheaper to do so.
As for the rise in unpleasantness, you can attribute that to the cross server technology, neutering the communities ability to deal with problem players without developer interference, if you were a known muppet back in old WOW, you were going to be told where to stick it if you tried to get into a group. Now you just queue up and never have to worry about the repercussions of being horrid.
Omg, I remember that too XD Getting so many lives the game used random graphics for them. And somehow as a kid, you knew what the random graphics meant for numbers.
hahahahah I remember this game.. I forget the name though, was it "Thief"?
I imagine many people never got the chance because it was obscenely expensive to play. At the time I was working for a publisher of German gaming/computer magazines, running their CS forums, and they provided me with a sponsored account. This allowed me to play LoK for free!
Are any of you playing Spiderweb Software's games? Those are a bit similar and old school. I keep meaning to finish Avalon, but somehow I keep getting distracted.
Rogue.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD