yes but kickstarter is bad for the people kickstarting because they aren't really investing in endeavors, and instead giving out money for stupid perks. it's a fiasco really.
You obviously have been part of the wrong Kickstart programs....if you have in fact been part of any.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
0
cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Ah, I do. But there are still devs who make video games for the love of us. In fact I'm sure many of them work for Cryptic. The only problem is the publishers who love to wring out the most profit from their work. So instead of something reasonable and morally sound, we have $200 founder packages and people who spend $500 within the in-game shop.
Some of it is the fault of the consumer, some of it is the fault of the publisher. But I sure do miss the days when developers published their own work and didn't dedicate thousands of man hours to planning profit strategies. Simpler times. Heck, I even remember when developers sold computer games in zip lock bags for a one-time fee. I kid you not. Now the trend and craze is F2P with micro-transactions that are becoming more like macro-transactions. *sigh*
devs that do it for enjoyment get squashed by big business just ask 38studios about that one all of them had a passion for games and brought out a great enjoyable game but because they were up against some of the biggiest names they didnt make enough to stay afloat
Warcraft was a great game. So I'm not sure what are you getting at. If any one is to blame it's consoles. Dumping down games for larger crowd. If you seriously blame Blizzard for spoiling gaming world. Well, wake up.
They still tend to produce highest quallity games at market and even if they fail to deliver such product. They rush with patches and try to minimize damage done to community.
I maybe sound as Blizzard fanboy, but I'm not. It's simply fact that they are one of few gaming companies that actually care. While EA and similar to them just throw junk out every few months and call it a game.
Warcraft was a great game up until Lich King or the months right before its release. In fact, probably the best era of gaming I ever enjoyed... outside of UO/EQ1 and one of the MUDs I played for years before that.
Nothing will ever replace the guild I was in and the hours we spent tackling MC/BWL/Naxx. Good times indeed. Sadly most of us are still chasing that pipe dream we will find those days again. The games change, but the people don't.
I think a shadowrun game would be silly now, why not just make a life game. I mean really netlinks are just cell phones, most of the things in shadowrun is modern world stuff now lol.
I am liking the progress of Greed Monger however.
The problem today is all the kiddies want cool graphics and could care less about the gameplay itself. Example perfect example is Savage, Savage 1 (or Savage xr) is much better than savage 2, they went the pretty but who cares about play <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in savage 2.
Hey, at leats in shadowrun's world I can get paid to do blackops by megacorps instead of the real world where megacorps demand I pay them :P
I remember when I figured out I could slide under blocks in Super Mario Brothers. It blew my mind. Then I figured out the infinite 1up turtle on stair trick. My universe imploded.
This actually never happened. People always complained about video games, and the developers. The only difference is the internet gives wider audience than just your circle of friends.
You said something that is correct, but are interpreting incorrectly. Yes people complained, but their sphere of influence was small. Now you can have just a few people all yelling and screaming about something and make it sound like everyone agrees when in reality they are just a very tiny noisy minority.
There is no polling, there is no evidence that everyone is complaining, but everyone who is complaining immediately tries to speak for everyone else. The reality is a minority of players actually even go to the forums. Its common knowledge that people will go well out of their way to complain about something, but not do so to praise it. To make matters worse often times people who do praise the game get flamed by those that don't like it because they are fanboys. When they are doing exactly what the complainer is doing, expressing their individual opinion.
Warcraft was a great game up until Lich King or the months right before its release. In fact, probably the best era of gaming I ever enjoyed... outside of UO/EQ1 and one of the MUDs I played for years before that.
Everything has been going downhill since then.
Still majority enjoyed later products and latest SC2 expansion was huge sucess. I never got into SC games before but SC2 expansion pack was really fun to me. But yeah, "blame" consoles and Asian rushed games. It's pretty much them who spoiled gaming community. Though gamers always have been same.
Also even back at 90's early 2000 there have been many, many trolls, ragers, flamers, immature players. It's just that not every one had Internet as people do nowdays. So take that into credit. Gamers are still same but point is there is just wider crowd.
I did kickstarter a few things, and funnily enough...I never ever felt ripped off. This game I feel ripped off just playing, and not spending any money.
Why are you here? It's a genuine question, not a thinly veiled "Get out.". (You sound interesting enough, so feel free to stay!) Why play a game, why participate in its community, if you don't enjoy it? I don't get this mindset. What a terrible waste of precious time when there are numerous games out there that you could be playing and having fun with right now! Why not find something that excites you, makes you feel enthusiastic? Why is it so hard to walk away from something so non-essential? Is it just fun to wallow in negativity, drag down others, validate through moaning?
"I complain, therefore I am."?
Recently, I wasted $90 on Defiance. I played a few days and didn't have fun after the first night. The next day I hung out on the forum, slowly growing more resentful. Suddenly it hit me. What was I doing there, really? Then I walked away and chalked up the money and the time.
You don't get your time back by spending MORE time on something you don't enjoy.
I think a shadowrun game would be silly now, why not just make a life game. I mean really netlinks are just cell phones, most of the things in shadowrun is modern world stuff now lol.
I am liking the progress of Greed Monger however.
The problem today is all the kiddies want cool graphics and could care less about the gameplay itself. Example perfect example is Savage, Savage 1 (or Savage xr) is much better than savage 2, they went the pretty but who cares about play <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in savage 2.
Don't hate on my shadowrun! I still play the pen & paper!
narathkorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Sadly DAoC was one of the best games ever. They killed it with a great expansion, the only problem was the expansion forced people out of pvp (RvR) and back into pve for months, this was not good for a game based around its PVP aspects so people left. Then even more sad, the original idea man tried to get funds to make camelot unchained and it did not get kickstarted.
Yeah right. When arcade games was hard as ****, that was just for the love of challenge, that had nothing to do with the fact that you had to pay everytime you died,right? When Capcom released like 15 different versions of Street Fighter 2, they only did it to offer a better and more balanced experience to their lovely players, right?
Warcraft was a great game up until Lich King or the months right before its release. In fact, probably the best era of gaming I ever enjoyed... outside of UO/EQ1 and one of the MUDs I played for years before that.
Nothing will ever replace the guild I was in and the hours we spent tackling MC/BWL/Naxx. Good times indeed. Sadly most of us are still chasing that pipe dream we will find those days again. The games change, but the people don't.
Everything has been going downhill since then.
No its really not downhill from there. It's just different. WoW captured a competitive PVE play style that no one else has been able to replicate to the same extent. The problem is not every MMO in the industry is even trying to compete on that level, but there is a group of players that assume every game MUST be trying to do that. When they find out that things aren't balanced or the hardcore content isn't there, then it MUST be a fail game. When in fact they just are trying to tease out something that may not even be a part of the game.
You can have foot races from Stormwind to Darnassus if you want, but then you can't complain that some people have epic mounts and others don't. Unless Blizzard put in the contest they have no obligation to make it balanced. PVP and PVE has no "ranking" associated with it in NW so why are people saying that it is competitive play?
This actually never happened. People always complained about video games, and the developers. The only difference is the internet gives wider audience than just your circle of friends.
Not really, Back when Wizardry and Ultima were the only two games of their kind, we were too busy playing the hell out of them to write to Richard Gariot or the guys at Sir-Tech we loved the games because we knew what it was like not to have ANY computer games
NOW it is all ***** ***** *****, especially since F2P has started...whiny people who have never produced anything for mass consumption whining instead of going and making something on their own...... which is I suppose the real difference....Richard G MADE Ultima, Greenberg and Woodhead invented Wizardry....if you dont like the games available to you...go code your own and see how well people like it It is still doable.
But then I come from the generation that created the Digital computer so my philosophy is not shared by younger types.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
I remember a time when people made video games for money. They still do.
If people made video games just for the fun of it then I wouldn't have had to pay $60 for them and then deal with the ****ty DRM. Chalk this thread and the OP up to #rosecoloredglasses.
0
narathkorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
PVE playstyle, I remember a certain boss in a certain game where before he got nerfed one of the best strategies was to feed him your squishies till he leveled at least 8 times and became more vulnerable to melee. Anyone name that boss and game?
And I already looked at some of those games you listed previously, especially the Numeria one looked like something for me.
What to see on GoG...lol look through it there are a lot of games, no DRM, all updated to work well on modern computers and a lot of newer content too....there are games there I over looked at the time they came out but are still fun to play now.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
0
jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's a fancy and long way of saying, "Yeah, you are right."
Right but there is much more nuance than what you said in your one liner statement. The problem isn't that there is a wider audience it is that noisy people can make it seem like some problem is much bigger than it is. People don't bother vetting anything that people say and just repeat it over and over again. Hell people deny that they could possibly be wrong even in the face of evidence and fact.
The short of it is I enjoy this game...but it feels like PWE is doing everything they can to make the game unenjoyable for me unless I spend lots of money. I'm the type of person that if I'm pushed, I will dig in my heels. That is why I haven't spent any money on the game, or likely ever will.
You said you feel ripped off by just playing, so it sounded like you were not having fun.
I can't fully relate to having to spend a lot of money to have fun here, but my perspective may be skewed due to the benefits of the HotN pack. Still, the only thing my alts use is the T3 mount. I only bought a bag for my main character, which is now mostly empty. I bought 15M AD during headstart, but haven't spent them. What I did get are cats, though also probably needless because I haven't done many T2 runs lately (waiting for guildies to catch up) and I just level alts, do low level PvP, stuff like that.
I did buy some dyes, but those were cheap. I think if I had not purchased the founder packs, I would really only have bought an account-wide mount, maybe $10 for dyes, and a couple respec tokens. So $60, which is what I pay for most games (that I often don't play). I want to say ADs for a cat too, but I made much more than 1M in the AD, selling low/mid level crafting materials.
How much would you need to spend to fully enjoy the game?
I remember a time when people made video games for money. They still do.
If people made video games just for the fun of it then I wouldn't have had to pay $60 for them and then deal with the ****ty DRM. Chalk this thread and the OP up to #rosecoloredglasses.
Umm there has been DRM for as long as there has been Computer Games......I remember a popular DRM method back in 1980 that you had to tinker with your floppy drives inner electronics calibrations to even get some games working. And others had printed manuals with look up phrases, and then color coded plastic to reveal the password....I think you are the one who hasn't been around long enough to claim rose colored glasses.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
Not really, Back when Wizardry and Ultima were the only two games of their kind, we were too busy playing the hell out of them to write to Richard Gariot or the guys at Sir-Tech we loved the games because we knew what it was like not to have ANY computer games
NOW it is all ***** ***** *****, especially since F2P has started...whiny people who have never produced anything for mass consumption whining instead of going and making something on their own...... which is I suppose the real difference....Richard G MADE Ultima, Greenberg and Woodhead invented Wizardry....if you dont like the games available to you...go code your own and see how well people like it It is still doable.
But then I come from the generation that created the Digital computer so my philosophy is not shared by younger types.
Its not the game itself that bothers me. Im perfectly fine with the game. Its the major attitude change that happened in the new MMO era. There are two extremes. 1. Those who tell everyone else if they dont like it simply dont play. It shouldnt be too hard to understand that someone can provide feedback on what they think can be done better without being a complete hater. The other extreme is 2. If I dont get my way Im quitting. Many of these folks quit often and loudly only to tab back in and continue playing. They also quit repeatedly. This open beta/live stage is just over 2 weeks old now, and there are already people who have quite multiple times.
The major issue is that some have an extreme personality, and they expect everyone else to also have that extreme personality where everyone is either a complete fanboi or a complete hater. What they dont see is that the other 98% of folks who play are in this huge gray area in the middle, where they like the game but also feel compelled to post on how the experience can be better for them. This doesnt make them haters who should just go away if they dont like it.
Comments
You obviously have been part of the wrong Kickstart programs....if you have in fact been part of any.
Some of it is the fault of the consumer, some of it is the fault of the publisher. But I sure do miss the days when developers published their own work and didn't dedicate thousands of man hours to planning profit strategies. Simpler times. Heck, I even remember when developers sold computer games in zip lock bags for a one-time fee. I kid you not. Now the trend and craze is F2P with micro-transactions that are becoming more like macro-transactions. *sigh*
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
And I already looked at some of those games you listed previously, especially the Numeria one looked like something for me.
Warcraft was a great game up until Lich King or the months right before its release. In fact, probably the best era of gaming I ever enjoyed... outside of UO/EQ1 and one of the MUDs I played for years before that.
Nothing will ever replace the guild I was in and the hours we spent tackling MC/BWL/Naxx. Good times indeed. Sadly most of us are still chasing that pipe dream we will find those days again. The games change, but the people don't.
Everything has been going downhill since then.
Hey, at leats in shadowrun's world I can get paid to do blackops by megacorps instead of the real world where megacorps demand I pay them :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
You said something that is correct, but are interpreting incorrectly. Yes people complained, but their sphere of influence was small. Now you can have just a few people all yelling and screaming about something and make it sound like everyone agrees when in reality they are just a very tiny noisy minority.
There is no polling, there is no evidence that everyone is complaining, but everyone who is complaining immediately tries to speak for everyone else. The reality is a minority of players actually even go to the forums. Its common knowledge that people will go well out of their way to complain about something, but not do so to praise it. To make matters worse often times people who do praise the game get flamed by those that don't like it because they are fanboys. When they are doing exactly what the complainer is doing, expressing their individual opinion.
Still majority enjoyed later products and latest SC2 expansion was huge sucess. I never got into SC games before but SC2 expansion pack was really fun to me. But yeah, "blame" consoles and Asian rushed games. It's pretty much them who spoiled gaming community. Though gamers always have been same.
Also even back at 90's early 2000 there have been many, many trolls, ragers, flamers, immature players. It's just that not every one had Internet as people do nowdays. So take that into credit. Gamers are still same but point is there is just wider crowd.
Why are you here? It's a genuine question, not a thinly veiled "Get out.". (You sound interesting enough, so feel free to stay!) Why play a game, why participate in its community, if you don't enjoy it? I don't get this mindset. What a terrible waste of precious time when there are numerous games out there that you could be playing and having fun with right now! Why not find something that excites you, makes you feel enthusiastic? Why is it so hard to walk away from something so non-essential? Is it just fun to wallow in negativity, drag down others, validate through moaning?
"I complain, therefore I am."?
Recently, I wasted $90 on Defiance. I played a few days and didn't have fun after the first night. The next day I hung out on the forum, slowly growing more resentful. Suddenly it hit me. What was I doing there, really? Then I walked away and chalked up the money and the time.
You don't get your time back by spending MORE time on something you don't enjoy.
Don't hate on my shadowrun! I still play the pen & paper!
The Sins of the Father NW-DLN6BC8NX
A Name For Yourself NW-DRBWMCFL4
Click Here To Visit The Official Thread
No its really not downhill from there. It's just different. WoW captured a competitive PVE play style that no one else has been able to replicate to the same extent. The problem is not every MMO in the industry is even trying to compete on that level, but there is a group of players that assume every game MUST be trying to do that. When they find out that things aren't balanced or the hardcore content isn't there, then it MUST be a fail game. When in fact they just are trying to tease out something that may not even be a part of the game.
You can have foot races from Stormwind to Darnassus if you want, but then you can't complain that some people have epic mounts and others don't. Unless Blizzard put in the contest they have no obligation to make it balanced. PVP and PVE has no "ranking" associated with it in NW so why are people saying that it is competitive play?
I got to play P&P once. It was glorious
Not really, Back when Wizardry and Ultima were the only two games of their kind, we were too busy playing the hell out of them to write to Richard Gariot or the guys at Sir-Tech we loved the games because we knew what it was like not to have ANY computer games
NOW it is all ***** ***** *****, especially since F2P has started...whiny people who have never produced anything for mass consumption whining instead of going and making something on their own...... which is I suppose the real difference....Richard G MADE Ultima, Greenberg and Woodhead invented Wizardry....if you dont like the games available to you...go code your own and see how well people like it
But then I come from the generation that created the Digital computer so my philosophy is not shared by younger types.
If people made video games just for the fun of it then I wouldn't have had to pay $60 for them and then deal with the ****ty DRM. Chalk this thread and the OP up to #rosecoloredglasses.
The Sins of the Father NW-DLN6BC8NX
A Name For Yourself NW-DRBWMCFL4
Click Here To Visit The Official Thread
What to see on GoG...lol look through it there are a lot of games, no DRM, all updated to work well on modern computers and a lot of newer content too....there are games there I over looked at the time they came out but are still fun to play now.
Right but there is much more nuance than what you said in your one liner statement. The problem isn't that there is a wider audience it is that noisy people can make it seem like some problem is much bigger than it is. People don't bother vetting anything that people say and just repeat it over and over again. Hell people deny that they could possibly be wrong even in the face of evidence and fact.
You said you feel ripped off by just playing, so it sounded like you were not having fun.
I can't fully relate to having to spend a lot of money to have fun here, but my perspective may be skewed due to the benefits of the HotN pack. Still, the only thing my alts use is the T3 mount. I only bought a bag for my main character, which is now mostly empty. I bought 15M AD during headstart, but haven't spent them. What I did get are cats, though also probably needless because I haven't done many T2 runs lately (waiting for guildies to catch up) and I just level alts, do low level PvP, stuff like that.
I did buy some dyes, but those were cheap. I think if I had not purchased the founder packs, I would really only have bought an account-wide mount, maybe $10 for dyes, and a couple respec tokens. So $60, which is what I pay for most games (that I often don't play). I want to say ADs for a cat too, but I made much more than 1M in the AD, selling low/mid level crafting materials.
How much would you need to spend to fully enjoy the game?
Umm there has been DRM for as long as there has been Computer Games......I remember a popular DRM method back in 1980 that you had to tinker with your floppy drives inner electronics calibrations to even get some games working. And others had printed manuals with look up phrases, and then color coded plastic to reveal the password....I think you are the one who hasn't been around long enough to claim rose colored glasses.
Its not the game itself that bothers me. Im perfectly fine with the game. Its the major attitude change that happened in the new MMO era. There are two extremes. 1. Those who tell everyone else if they dont like it simply dont play. It shouldnt be too hard to understand that someone can provide feedback on what they think can be done better without being a complete hater. The other extreme is 2. If I dont get my way Im quitting. Many of these folks quit often and loudly only to tab back in and continue playing. They also quit repeatedly. This open beta/live stage is just over 2 weeks old now, and there are already people who have quite multiple times.
The major issue is that some have an extreme personality, and they expect everyone else to also have that extreme personality where everyone is either a complete fanboi or a complete hater. What they dont see is that the other 98% of folks who play are in this huge gray area in the middle, where they like the game but also feel compelled to post on how the experience can be better for them. This doesnt make them haters who should just go away if they dont like it.
Hmm can't name it wasnt one I played but it had to be at least late 1980s