and **** you with your roll back first lose all the time i put into cause your worried about the economy that shouldve fixed itself with the bans. Not like that ad wouldve gone anywhere if you reallydid catch the ppl who had their part in it. And now im done quite a few lvls and for some reason the roll back actually made me go back to the same ad i had when i logged off. So where is my missing ad that i spent on some good gear for when i hit 60. so yea **** you
I just find it astonishing that the bug even existed in the first place. One of the first things you test when you accept any user input in software, is that the input has a valid value. Quite clearly testing that the input value was not null, not negative and was an integer should have been primary testing points - don't companies test their code anymore?
If they can't get something as critical to their revenues as that right, how are people supposed to have faith that their web site and payment gateways are not wide open to cross site scripting, SQL Injections and buffer overflow exploits? How secure are your credit card details - do you really trust a company that allows such an elementary bug to sit in their code base for so long?
It really was inexcusable and I wouldn't trust them with any sensitive data after such a monumental screw up.
And as said in my previous post - the 7 hour rollback was a joke, dozens of people still selling cats which were bought to launder AD. Wake up PWE and Cryptic, your fix is broken.
Sadly anonymity through the internet allows for people to bring out their alter egos, immaturity, irrational side, as well as show they simply are only concerned with themselves.
My wish is that the legal ramifications for people who cheat/steal from an online games (or companies) would be the same as someone stealing IRL. Could you imagine if you opened a local deli and knew that you would have to deal with the same sort of attacks consistently as online entities do?
Yah because someone using a terminal is much worse than being beaten or threatened with a gun to get your money.
Probably far older than you so no need to be condescending...
The exploit was public for way more than 12 hours before they took the servers down and has been around since launch, you do the math here. Exploiters tend to try and keep things like this a secret as long as they can for a reason, to be able to exploit it for as long as possible.
When the bug has been around since Alpha and according to some reported, not to mention that it's been fixed in STO, yes, yes it is...
**** man, condescending and insulting in the same post, going for a record here. The worst thing about this game is the horrible design of some systems and the constant push towards the cash shop, sure it's fun in the short term but once you look deeper it's just not that great. Allowing what surely will be hundreds of millions of duped AD to remain in the economy surely doesn't help and is the final straw that makes it not worth sticking around to see if things improve.
There are enough games on the market these days to chose from as a customer, hence mistakes like this is really not acceptable, especially not when they don't get fixed.
It is being fixed. People need to stop expecting a magic wand to be waved to fix it instantly on the spot lol
PWI have destroyed this game from the onset by not wiping the servers. The economic system has now been damaged beyond repair as many of us know this exploit has been around for a lot longer than 7 hours.
I had wondered how the gold sellers had made so much in game cash in a few hours to be selling it, Now we know and they have been on the servers since day 1.
Because they are only rolling back 7 hours it really makes me wonder if the gold sellers as part of PWI or people within the company out to make more money just like the britcoin mining con that happened at another large gaming company not so long ago, It really does make you wonder sometimes.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
this is all just going down the drain... all of the comments are in contradictory to each other, Let JUST HAVE A POLL FOR IT & USE THE OUTCOME AS WHAT TO DO NEXT.. it won't solved anything if we just argue at each other...
Half-Elf Devoted Cleric-Divine Oracle Build, Powers and Feats:V1.0, V2.0
If it is true that the exploit was known since day 1, then we were managing an already compromised economy. A roll back of 7 or 70 hours won't make a difference, the game is crippled anyway. This is against my own interests, but given the situation, it would have probably been better to wipe everything and have a fresh start. I don't have much time to play, so it would be really annoying for me to start over, but when you apply features involving real money in the game, you need to be sure that they work 99.9%. Honestly, having the market so compromised, I would feel like a puppet buying and selling stuff in the AH, I would feel like not worth it to spend money to get an item or a companion or whatsoever, since there will be someone else wh ocan get the same thing, just tweaking the AH.
Regarding the exploiters, they are low life form and deserve to be banned from several planes of existence. No doubt about it.
I have a question:
What happened with items listed by users in the AH?
I logged into the game to see if everything was allright (taking the rollback into account already). At first everything seemed fine till I checked the AH (where 2 of my items were listed). Aaaaand they are gone. I also didnt have them in my inventory (I acquired them way before the rollback took place)
It wouldnt be that bad if one of the items werent the "rare profession asset - skinner" (25% Bonus speed) which was unfortunately sold at the time of the rollback. I do not possess the astral diamonds from the transaction (which is understandable) but I should at least have this item back in my inventory.
Are those items lost for good?
Does anybody have the same problem?
Sure, maybe the game doesn't have a ton of content yet as it is rather new, and you have to pay a small amount of money to enjoy it, much like subscription-based MMOs. I never understand why people always seem to think that cash shop MMO = completely free MMO to enjoy completely for no money.
There's no such thing as a free lunch in capitalist America and Cryptic has to eat too!
That guy? You mean the guy that doesn't like it when everyone is hysterical over what is going to be essentially rendered nothing because log files exist and the exploit involves extremely strange AH behavior? I'm that guy too. You're that guy telling people they're that guy for telling people to calm down.
1 - I logged now and checked my ingame mail. There were mails of outbid and sold items from AH. The mails with outbid had the AD in them to be collected, but the mails with sold items didn't. Were they bought using exploit money and therefore I didn't receive the money and if so, will I get my items back after AH restarts?
2 - What happens to all the bids ppl made to AH items? When the AH returns, will ppl that had the last bid in the auctions that finished during this time have the item?
That guy? You mean the guy that doesn't like it when everyone is hysterical over what is going to be essentially rendered nothing because log files exist and the exploit involves extremely strange AH behavior? I'm that guy too. You're that guy telling people they're that guy for telling people to calm down.
No, that naive guy that think this will all be fixed.
Lets say that they trace any and all occurrences of this exploit since launch, then they have to trace the AD through AH, trades, Zen exchange, then they have to trace what happened to those items gained, then they have to go to the next line in the web and start all over.
It's as impossible as trying to remove drug money from the streets of America...
Hey i lost around 180k of AD that where selling during the exploit and the item that i was selling is also gone ??
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karaavareMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
well i just logged in and saw that the 2 items i bought for 8.4k glory and posted to ah worth nearly 80k AD + 2 previously pulled items from epics worth 40k AD are gone from AH and i dont have them in my inventory and im pretty sure that i got them before the roll back time zone also even if got them during the time that they rolled back where the F.. is my glory? so here is the bill for me 120k worth items earned via playin the game so worth my precious 12 hours of game play so ty perfect world for coming up with the brilliant idea of making a game with real money related dimonds and making them usable in ah during the open beta i mean really what were u thinking that there wont be any exploiters? all i can say is go check some other MMO'S ull se how they operate u might get some advices from them.
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darkallahMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
1 - I logged now and checked my ingame mail. There were mails of outbid and sold items from AH. The mails with outbid had the AD in them to be collected, but the mails with sold items didn't. Were they bought using exploit money and therefore I didn't receive the money and if so, will I get my items back after AH restarts?
2 - What happens to all the bids ppl made to AH items? When the AH returns, will ppl that had the last bid in the auctions that finished during this time have the item?
Thank You and keep up the good work.
Valid queries. I think the 7h RB was a fine compromise. The chicken littles going on about how the economy is forever borked must not have played many MMOs in the past...such an influx in a new economy will self regulate over relatively brief intervals. There will be some long term effect, but not game-breaking. And judging by the people who are acting like losing 7 hours of gameplay is equivalent to someone rolling them in the street, rolling back much more than that would have left too many people soured on the game. I dearly hope that there is some form of accountability for those caught perpetrating the exploit, but if not, meh, doesn't really effect me either way.
Probably far older than you so no need to be condescending...
The exploit was public for way more than 12 hours before they took the servers down and has been around since launch, you do the math here. Exploiters tend to try and keep things like this a secret as long as they can for a reason, to be able to exploit it for as long as possible.
When the bug has been around since Alpha and according to some reported, not to mention that it's been fixed in STO, yes, yes it is...
**** man, condescending and insulting in the same post, going for a record here. The worst thing about this game is the horrible design of some systems and the constant push towards the cash shop, sure it's fun in the short term but once you look deeper it's just not that great. Allowing what surely will be hundreds of millions of duped AD to remain in the economy surely doesn't help and is the final straw that makes it not worth sticking around to see if things improve.
There are enough games on the market these days to chose from as a customer, hence mistakes like this is really not acceptable, especially not when they don't get fixed.
Maybe you are a mature adult, and yes, I lumped you in with the forum whiners, perhaps unfairly given your response. I really doubt you're older than me though And if you are, you have my commiserations.
Once the exploit was "public knowledge" opportunities to abuse were gone though. As I said before, 7 hours is a compromise, and like all compromises, it will suit nobody perfectly.
I'm sorry, I just refuse to believe that an accurately reported bug that could affect the economy so adversely (which is the lifeblood, as far as the devs are concerned) was ignored. You clearly believe otherwise, so we'll just have to differ on that. Is the STO team the same as the NW team? Probably not - hopefully if they've learned anything from this fiasco it is to communicate internally on bugs, where shared code is in use.
Has the bug been fixed yet? If not, will it be fixed? Of course. Nobody deliberately creates bugs in their code, but they are an inevitable part of software, anyone denying that has no business commenting on the creation of commercial software. We're not sending Voyager to Jupiter here, we're playing games.
I was not directing my feelings toward you specifically, yours was the post I chose to quote. I was commenting generally on the negativity that exists on these forums, not trying to insult you individually. The content of some of these forums reminds me of nothing so much as SWTOR, a community that is utterly impossible to please. Like you say though, lots to choose from right now, it is a golden age (of choice, if not quality) for MMO gamers. Sadly, the communities they generate only seem to be getting worse. Thank goodness for guilds.
No, that naive guy that think this will all be fixed.
Lets say that they trace any and all occurrences of this exploit since launch, then they have to trace the AD through AH, trades, Zen exchange, then they have to trace what happened to those items gained, then they have to go to the next line in the web and start all over.
It's as impossible as trying to remove drug money from the streets of America...
No, it's not, because in America, the problem is that there isn't a log of all of these things. It isn't naive to believe that Cryptic is capable of fixing pretty much everything -- in fact, it's a fact! It's a matter of work for them and I'm sure some will make it through, but the obvious nature of the exploit in their log files will surely make it quite easy to in fact catch literally everyone who did this since launch, and punish them and take away stuff they added to the economy accordingly.
Much like money laundering, the AD went into several forms, all of which can be traced. The game is free, but at Cryptic, they are doing a job! It's easy to forget that at times, but I've got quite a bit of faith that quite literally all of this (except a few benefits probably accrued by randoms just due to being around these very few people who had good gear because of this) will be fixed pretty soon, haha.
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starlitenlMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited May 2013
Am I the only one that keeps reading AH/AD as AD/HD?
And thanks Cryptic for finally giving me a good nights sleep by shutting the servers down just before bedtime
I think rolling back a couple of hours was the best way to go, rolling back longer or a full wipe would have been madness imho.
BTW: Props to cryptic for providing continuous information via the forums, twitter etc. A lot of companies can learn from this (*cough* blizzard *cough*)
No, that naive guy that think this will all be fixed.
Lets say that they trace any and all occurrences of this exploit since launch, then they have to trace the AD through AH, trades, Zen exchange, then they have to trace what happened to those items gained, then they have to go to the next line in the web and start all over.
It's as impossible as trying to remove drug money from the streets of America...
Just because you cant do it, doesnt mean someone better cant lol. Im not the naive one. The game will be fixed, then all you negative minded people can eat a fresh hot helping of humble pie
Well i sold an enchantment before server went down for 1.4 m AD. So where will be my AD, now it's gone... with the rollback will i get my enchantment back or what ?
I want to know what happens with my Nightmare Inferno, and all my lockbox items I cashed in during this time. I made over 600K AD just from Idols that I now have lost. Not to mention the Epic Mountain and a few other key items. I've spent my hard earned money on this game, to have things altered with a rollback is ridiculous. Everyone who is happy I'm sure didn't spend real money during this time.
I will be requesting my money back from my Credit Card company, and probably moving to another game if this is not resolved. If real money was not involved, this roll back is a small fix. However this exploit goes back a lot further than just yesterday. I wish I had read and known about this before paying into this game, I would not of done so. Very disappointed customer.
Just because you cant do it, doesnt mean someone better cant lol. Im not the naive one. The game will be fixed, then all you negative minded people can eat a fresh hot helping of humble pie
People just like to freak out. That's why every time this happens, a few other people along with you and I are the only ones who seem to post on forums that aren't seemingly addicted to rage and fear or something. I think it's kind of odd.
And that's exactly what it boils down to. People have a tendency to think that things they can't personally do are impossible. Amazing world we live in.
Comments
If they can't get something as critical to their revenues as that right, how are people supposed to have faith that their web site and payment gateways are not wide open to cross site scripting, SQL Injections and buffer overflow exploits? How secure are your credit card details - do you really trust a company that allows such an elementary bug to sit in their code base for so long?
It really was inexcusable and I wouldn't trust them with any sensitive data after such a monumental screw up.
And as said in my previous post - the 7 hour rollback was a joke, dozens of people still selling cats which were bought to launder AD. Wake up PWE and Cryptic, your fix is broken.
Yah because someone using a terminal is much worse than being beaten or threatened with a gun to get your money.
It is being fixed. People need to stop expecting a magic wand to be waved to fix it instantly on the spot lol
I had wondered how the gold sellers had made so much in game cash in a few hours to be selling it, Now we know and they have been on the servers since day 1.
Because they are only rolling back 7 hours it really makes me wonder if the gold sellers as part of PWI or people within the company out to make more money just like the britcoin mining con that happened at another large gaming company not so long ago, It really does make you wonder sometimes.
IM not negative im realistic i love this game but a 7 hours rollback is not enough to resolve this in game economic disaster.
Don't be that guy...
Dont be what guy?
Regarding the exploiters, they are low life form and deserve to be banned from several planes of existence. No doubt about it.
What happened with items listed by users in the AH?
I logged into the game to see if everything was allright (taking the rollback into account already). At first everything seemed fine till I checked the AH (where 2 of my items were listed). Aaaaand they are gone. I also didnt have them in my inventory (I acquired them way before the rollback took place)
It wouldnt be that bad if one of the items werent the "rare profession asset - skinner" (25% Bonus speed) which was unfortunately sold at the time of the rollback. I do not possess the astral diamonds from the transaction (which is understandable) but I should at least have this item back in my inventory.
Are those items lost for good?
Does anybody have the same problem?
AH and zen trade are at the moment offline
There's no such thing as a free lunch in capitalist America and Cryptic has to eat too!
That guy? You mean the guy that doesn't like it when everyone is hysterical over what is going to be essentially rendered nothing because log files exist and the exploit involves extremely strange AH behavior? I'm that guy too. You're that guy telling people they're that guy for telling people to calm down.
1 - I logged now and checked my ingame mail. There were mails of outbid and sold items from AH. The mails with outbid had the AD in them to be collected, but the mails with sold items didn't. Were they bought using exploit money and therefore I didn't receive the money and if so, will I get my items back after AH restarts?
2 - What happens to all the bids ppl made to AH items? When the AH returns, will ppl that had the last bid in the auctions that finished during this time have the item?
Thank You and keep up the good work.
No, that naive guy that think this will all be fixed.
Lets say that they trace any and all occurrences of this exploit since launch, then they have to trace the AD through AH, trades, Zen exchange, then they have to trace what happened to those items gained, then they have to go to the next line in the web and start all over.
It's as impossible as trying to remove drug money from the streets of America...
Valid queries. I think the 7h RB was a fine compromise. The chicken littles going on about how the economy is forever borked must not have played many MMOs in the past...such an influx in a new economy will self regulate over relatively brief intervals. There will be some long term effect, but not game-breaking. And judging by the people who are acting like losing 7 hours of gameplay is equivalent to someone rolling them in the street, rolling back much more than that would have left too many people soured on the game. I dearly hope that there is some form of accountability for those caught perpetrating the exploit, but if not, meh, doesn't really effect me either way.
Maybe you are a mature adult, and yes, I lumped you in with the forum whiners, perhaps unfairly given your response. I really doubt you're older than me though
Once the exploit was "public knowledge" opportunities to abuse were gone though. As I said before, 7 hours is a compromise, and like all compromises, it will suit nobody perfectly.
I'm sorry, I just refuse to believe that an accurately reported bug that could affect the economy so adversely (which is the lifeblood, as far as the devs are concerned) was ignored. You clearly believe otherwise, so we'll just have to differ on that. Is the STO team the same as the NW team? Probably not - hopefully if they've learned anything from this fiasco it is to communicate internally on bugs, where shared code is in use.
Has the bug been fixed yet? If not, will it be fixed? Of course. Nobody deliberately creates bugs in their code, but they are an inevitable part of software, anyone denying that has no business commenting on the creation of commercial software. We're not sending Voyager to Jupiter here, we're playing games.
I was not directing my feelings toward you specifically, yours was the post I chose to quote. I was commenting generally on the negativity that exists on these forums, not trying to insult you individually. The content of some of these forums reminds me of nothing so much as SWTOR, a community that is utterly impossible to please. Like you say though, lots to choose from right now, it is a golden age (of choice, if not quality) for MMO gamers. Sadly, the communities they generate only seem to be getting worse. Thank goodness for guilds.
No, it's not, because in America, the problem is that there isn't a log of all of these things. It isn't naive to believe that Cryptic is capable of fixing pretty much everything -- in fact, it's a fact! It's a matter of work for them and I'm sure some will make it through, but the obvious nature of the exploit in their log files will surely make it quite easy to in fact catch literally everyone who did this since launch, and punish them and take away stuff they added to the economy accordingly.
Much like money laundering, the AD went into several forms, all of which can be traced. The game is free, but at Cryptic, they are doing a job! It's easy to forget that at times, but I've got quite a bit of faith that quite literally all of this (except a few benefits probably accrued by randoms just due to being around these very few people who had good gear because of this) will be fixed pretty soon, haha.
And thanks Cryptic for finally giving me a good nights sleep by shutting the servers down just before bedtime
I think rolling back a couple of hours was the best way to go, rolling back longer or a full wipe would have been madness imho.
BTW: Props to cryptic for providing continuous information via the forums, twitter etc. A lot of companies can learn from this (*cough* blizzard *cough*)
Just because you cant do it, doesnt mean someone better cant lol. Im not the naive one. The game will be fixed, then all you negative minded people can eat a fresh hot helping of humble pie
I will be requesting my money back from my Credit Card company, and probably moving to another game if this is not resolved. If real money was not involved, this roll back is a small fix. However this exploit goes back a lot further than just yesterday. I wish I had read and known about this before paying into this game, I would not of done so. Very disappointed customer.
People just like to freak out. That's why every time this happens, a few other people along with you and I are the only ones who seem to post on forums that aren't seemingly addicted to rage and fear or something. I think it's kind of odd.
And that's exactly what it boils down to. People have a tendency to think that things they can't personally do are impossible. Amazing world we live in.