Since people refer to the purchased items as not being deleted at beta-close, im guessing that while ZEN is reset...if you bought mounts, keys, etc...those are not reset?
If thats true, then a wipe would be an easy way to kill the game since it would cause people to lose items they paid for.
If thats not true, well..ZEN was confirmed to be reset a while ago. So yea.
0
Options
sytex123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
should ban the exploiters and leave the ones who didnt cheat alone
So you say its more work for you if you for example need to work 1 minute to be able to buy 1 enchanted key then a F2Play player (who is forced to f2play) who needs days of gaming to be able to afford a key?
Wow your life must be so hard. Its really easy to point with a finger when you are financial okay.
Isn't playing a game "playing"? and isn't working "working"? that would mean more work was invested in the real currency than in the in game currency because to earn the in game currency you were "playing" but to earn the real world currency you "worked"
If the game is so horrible to you that you feel like you are "working" then do you play another game in your offtime?
It's amazing how many people are making new accounts and voting and posting how a wipe only hurts the honest people....
Its amazing how people think a poll of nowhere near the amount of players actually playing means anything. After they said no wipes countless times including countless times tonight on twitter. But hey keep spending money and dreaming.
As much as I love my end game I still would enjoy a second chance to redo some things and wouldnt mind the zen refunds
^^^ this. I did that myself simple b/c I goofed and skipped the Blacklake skirmish until I felt I was ready - but I was level 12 and it was no longer available to me. I deleted that character and started a new one and in about 12-13 hours of gameplay I was at level 16 having not missed one multiplayer event and having also gotten a chance at PVP.
The people that would quit because of a wipe will quit because of other reasons anyways....I support a wipe and all zen / founders astral diamonds to be returned AT AT AT launch of the game...leave everything the way it is and fix the issues....once the game is in a place where a wipe would actually re balance things and make the game overall better, then do it. Doing a full wipe now wont do anything except <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> people off. Wipe everything but do once the game is ready.
I repeat do a full wipe at LAUNCH and remember the game hoppers will leave regardless of whats best for the game and right now the integrity of the game has been violated and been exploited too much to even consider continuing to play without a wipe.
I suggest that all players who want and believe a wipe is whats best for the game basically leave if the wipe doesn't happen and all the people who dont want the wipe leave if it does....lets see which has the bigger population.
Also, please FIX threat and make ALL items from dungeons BOP or a wipe wont matter because the end game is too short with and easy with both of those problems still there.
Again...wipe at launch when the game is ready...people that care about the game will stay and all the people who leave pissed will come back eventually....just like they do in wow lol.
Stay Classy.....NEVERWINTER!
0
Options
kaltxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
The question is which is actually the bigger paying population not which is the bigger population. I couldn't care less if people that didn't pay leave. Most of them consist of the exploiters anyway. All that talk about caring about the game bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I guess, they can't stand to have class/status differences in a game. Go play GWs then all the epic loot is the same anyway. My opinion, you pay for the game you actually care and like the content enough to pay for it. You don't pay for it your just another one of those leeches whining about how people are better than you and striving for equality hence the suggestion of a wipe. I know a couple people who pay are in favour of the wipe but meh I guess they are not 60 or not in full t2 yet and don't know the pain of getting it.
The people that would quit because of a wipe will quit because of other reasons anyways....I support a wipe and all zen / founders astral diamonds to be returned AT AT AT launch of the game...leave everything the way it is and fix the issues....once the game is in a place where a wipe would actually re balance things and make the game overall better, then do it. Doing a full wipe now wont do anything except <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> people off. Wipe everything but do once the game is ready.
I repeat do a full wipe at LAUNCH and remember the game hoppers will leave regardless of whats best for the game and right now the integrity of the game has been violated and been exploited too much to even consider continuing to play without a wipe.
I suggest that all players who want and believe a wipe is whats best for the game basically leave if the wipe doesn't happen and all the people who dont want the wipe leave if it does....lets see which has the bigger population.
Also, please FIX threat and make ALL items from dungeons BOP or a wipe wont matter because the end game is too short with and easy with both of those problems still there.
Again...wipe at launch when the game is ready...people that care about the game will stay and all the people who leave pissed will come back eventually....just like they do in wow lol.
The people that would quit because of a wipe will quit because of other reasons anyways....I support a wipe and all zen / founders astral diamonds to be returned AT AT AT launch of the game...leave everything the way it is and fix the issues....once the game is in a place where a wipe would actually re balance things and make the game overall better, then do it. Doing a full wipe now wont do anything except <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> people off. Wipe everything but do once the game is ready.
I repeat do a full wipe at LAUNCH and remember the game hoppers will leave regardless of whats best for the game and right now the integrity of the game has been violated and been exploited too much to even consider continuing to play without a wipe.
I suggest that all players who want and believe a wipe is whats best for the game basically leave if the wipe doesn't happen and all the people who dont want the wipe leave if it does....lets see which has the bigger population.
Also, please FIX threat and make ALL items from dungeons BOP or a wipe wont matter because the end game is too short with and easy with both of those problems still there.
Again...wipe at launch when the game is ready...people that care about the game will stay and all the people who leave pissed will come back eventually....just like they do in wow lol.
who knows for all we know the ones threatening to quit are the exploiters themselves or players who are mad they did not think of it first
in all fairness i don't see how a full wipe would solve anything.
i have played a lot of mmo's and i have seen players use exploit after exploit after exploit, so unless you all want a full wipe when a new exploit comes out (and yes it will sooner or later) then the best course of action is to perma-ban anyone who willingly uses a exploit for there own ill-gotten gain...no warnings no second chances 1 strike and your gone forever, end of line, there is the door don't let it hit you on the way out!
I suggest that all players who want and believe a wipe is whats best for the game basically leave if the wipe doesn't happen and all the people who dont want the wipe leave if it does....lets see which has the bigger population.
Do you realize that what you are proposing is impossible? You cannot have it both ways, so there is no way to determine which "population" is larger.
The people that would quit because of a wipe will quit because of other reasons anyways....I support a wipe and all zen / founders astral diamonds to be returned AT AT AT launch of the game...leave everything the way it is and fix the issues....once the game is in a place where a wipe would actually re balance things and make the game overall better, then do it. Doing a full wipe now wont do anything except <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> people off. Wipe everything but do once the game is ready.
I repeat do a full wipe at LAUNCH and remember the game hoppers will leave regardless of whats best for the game and right now the integrity of the game has been violated and been exploited too much to even consider continuing to play without a wipe.
I suggest that all players who want and believe a wipe is whats best for the game basically leave if the wipe doesn't happen and all the people who dont want the wipe leave if it does....lets see which has the bigger population.
Also, please FIX threat and make ALL items from dungeons BOP or a wipe wont matter because the end game is too short with and easy with both of those problems still there.
Again...wipe at launch when the game is ready...people that care about the game will stay and all the people who leave pissed will come back eventually....just like they do in wow lol.
The people that will quit because of no wipe will quit because of other reasons anyways. Am I doing it right?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Official Neverwinter: "Update 5:15 PM Pacific: We have most of the information in-hand, but are waiting on a few final details to determine our plan of action. To clarify one thing I've seen around on Twitter, whatever we ultimately decide to do, a full character wipe will not happen. We're doing everything we can to minimize the impact of this fix, so that it changes what must change, but not much else. Thank you all for your patience, we appreciate it and will have you back in-game as soon as possible."
Great. No wipe. Cooler heads prevail.
Still, they seem to leave open the possibility of a character "rollback" to an earlier point of time. I hope it doesnt come to that either.
In any case, the devs seem to be doing everything in their power to surgically remove the exploit without disrupting the game of everyone else.
I suggest an instant ban on players who are found guilty of the exploits.
0
Options
auferoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
They've already said several times there won't be a full wipe. I'd bet on a rollback of three or four days, if they can swing it. The exploits and resulting economic implosion would be covered by that.
Sorry to break it too you but...only about 10% of the community goes to the forums and the vast majority of them are there because they are there to complain. The casual player(who way outnumber you) and those happy with the current state of the game for the most part are not here, as such it is those people you have to think about, and I am sorry but MOST casual players will NOT want to spend the time re-leveling cause it is boring. Why do you think so many people have been asking in zone chat about character wipes, so they would know if they should play NOW are wait until launch to play, a good majority of them will not be back.
i will not be leveling another character i am a casual player and make my diamonds through pvp gear im sorry your money wasn't well spent because of the AD exploit but it means nothing to me and all the other "casual players" because its a FREE to play game and we will be at a disadvantage anyway if they wipe its only you 1000~ players on the forums left
Heh, I suspect some of those wanting a complete wipe are the bug exploiters who want to erase evidence of their wrongdoing.
0
Options
rowdthonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I am an STO founder. I realize this means nothing to many people and that is fine.
I am also a NW founder. I also realize this means nothing to many people and that is fine.
I have played MMOs for many years.
There are always some bugs. There are always cheaters and exploiters; unfortunately. These are people who believe they are owed something by everyone else and, throwing away whatever morality they have, they decide to take advantage of a situation. The comments of "It was there, no one fixed it, so it must be alright" lack integrity and personal responsibility. These people do need to be perma-banned. No two ways about it. Unfortunately, many people who did not know the exploits exist will be caught in this net.
Some people. for whatever reason, do not know enough to question things when someone else tells them to go do something. This happened the first couple of weeks of Guild Wars 2, (GW2). The GW2 team dug in and perma-banned some accounts, temp-banned others, fixed the exploit, took a lot of "user input" from the forums and on social sites.
They could easily rollback the game history as their market was not yet active and that is a large part of the difference here.
There is earned AD and Zen in the game and there is AD and Zen converted from "Real-life money". This is the difference and due to the exploits, I am concerned the economy is so far out of balance as to have, potentially, sustained a nuclear bomb.
There are those who proudly made "Real-life money" off of this exploit; at least one person appears to have done it as a professional saboteur; hiding their tracks, flaunting what they did, and even being so bold as to note they provided epics for their guild and have mule accounts holding many more items. This represents a complete imbalance in the game economy as soon as access is granted again.
I realize PW has been saying no wipe, but I do fully support a wipe. For the sake of the game economy and to remove all benefits received through Foundry and AH exploits, a wipe needs to be "On the table".
Yes, I will lose all of the time I have spent in-game. Yes, it will be frustrating to see the same leveling content; again. Still, with the exploits patched, better testing methods put in-place by PW (For the sake of all that is good, at least test!), and a caring user-base, leveling my characters all over will be worth it.
NOTE to PW:
As a group, you all are not innocent victims here. Time to pull-up your big-boy pants, admit what has been going on, and return this game to a level playing field. This would not have gone on if people had been responsible. The fact that a few foundry quests are pure exploits, were known by the user community as exploits, and remained active is a poor example of integrity.
The community will obviously judge what you do from here. Likely, you will not please anyone with your actions, but your actions will show the community how committed you are to this game and its future and on this, people will know whether they are able to trust their future enjoyment with you or not.
I have invested even more time than you but i still approve a wipe or at the very least a rollback
The stupid questions are the ones you do not ask;)
0
Options
gungadorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I am going to stick my nose in here. I find it interesting that people are so opposed to a wipe when the game is still open beta. Open beta refers to a game that is open to the public to test and therefore torture test. The game has been that and more. But if you can hit end game in less then a week is it really that much of a "grind" ? I remember EQ days when it took a week to get a level lol.
With PWG saying there is no wipes I don't think they truly thought it through before releasing that statement. The game hasn't been officially launched yet. In all states it is still fully in a "beta" stage. IF I was them I would take this opportunity to hike up their big boy socks and say "wow , we really missed that one" fix the problem, study the code , ban the guilty and for the sake of the community wipe the slate clean refunding Zen that was purchased.
I think in the long haul it will make for a stronger community and a better player base.
You're confusing 'game-breaking exploit bugs' with typical 'walking through walls and **** bugs.' And if something like that were to occur later in the 'release' other than the 'open beta' then a rollback could be implemented, but since these bugs have been in the game since the closed beta and not been acknowledged, a full wipe is completely logical.
Really, there have NEVER in the history of MMOs ever been a GAME BREAKING bug that comes out in a live update...ever.
Oh, wait THIS VERY SAME TYPE of exploit happened in EQ2 about a year into live. Guess what happened, first all money in that game had a unique number so finding the exploited money was easy for them, and it went bye bye very quickly. They also band LOTS of accounts of people who attempted to "launder" the money as they knew exactly were it went and who had it.
Comments
If thats true, then a wipe would be an easy way to kill the game since it would cause people to lose items they paid for.
If thats not true, well..ZEN was confirmed to be reset a while ago. So yea.
Because of how the abuse / exploit works, anyone who bought something off the AH could be involved (Have a buddy "buy" something leads to...yea).
I expect a semi-wipe (maybe just all currency gone but levels left alone?), or something like that.
Loki < The Illuminati > 60 - Control Wizard
Protocol 60 - Great Weapon Fighter
Isn't playing a game "playing"? and isn't working "working"? that would mean more work was invested in the real currency than in the in game currency because to earn the in game currency you were "playing" but to earn the real world currency you "worked"
If the game is so horrible to you that you feel like you are "working" then do you play another game in your offtime?
Its amazing how people think a poll of nowhere near the amount of players actually playing means anything. After they said no wipes countless times including countless times tonight on twitter. But hey keep spending money and dreaming.
^^^ this. I did that myself simple b/c I goofed and skipped the Blacklake skirmish until I felt I was ready - but I was level 12 and it was no longer available to me. I deleted that character and started a new one and in about 12-13 hours of gameplay I was at level 16 having not missed one multiplayer event and having also gotten a chance at PVP.
I repeat do a full wipe at LAUNCH and remember the game hoppers will leave regardless of whats best for the game and right now the integrity of the game has been violated and been exploited too much to even consider continuing to play without a wipe.
I suggest that all players who want and believe a wipe is whats best for the game basically leave if the wipe doesn't happen and all the people who dont want the wipe leave if it does....lets see which has the bigger population.
Also, please FIX threat and make ALL items from dungeons BOP or a wipe wont matter because the end game is too short with and easy with both of those problems still there.
Again...wipe at launch when the game is ready...people that care about the game will stay and all the people who leave pissed will come back eventually....just like they do in wow lol.
Good thing they already said they wouldn't do a full wipe eh?
in all fairness i don't see how a full wipe would solve anything.
i have played a lot of mmo's and i have seen players use exploit after exploit after exploit, so unless you all want a full wipe when a new exploit comes out (and yes it will sooner or later) then the best course of action is to perma-ban anyone who willingly uses a exploit for there own ill-gotten gain...no warnings no second chances 1 strike and your gone forever, end of line, there is the door don't let it hit you on the way out!
Do you realize that what you are proposing is impossible? You cannot have it both ways, so there is no way to determine which "population" is larger.
The people that will quit because of no wipe will quit because of other reasons anyways. Am I doing it right?
Great. No wipe. Cooler heads prevail.
Still, they seem to leave open the possibility of a character "rollback" to an earlier point of time. I hope it doesnt come to that either.
In any case, the devs seem to be doing everything in their power to surgically remove the exploit without disrupting the game of everyone else.
Sorry to break it too you but...only about 10% of the community goes to the forums and the vast majority of them are there because they are there to complain. The casual player(who way outnumber you) and those happy with the current state of the game for the most part are not here, as such it is those people you have to think about, and I am sorry but MOST casual players will NOT want to spend the time re-leveling cause it is boring. Why do you think so many people have been asking in zone chat about character wipes, so they would know if they should play NOW are wait until launch to play, a good majority of them will not be back.
I am also a NW founder. I also realize this means nothing to many people and that is fine.
I have played MMOs for many years.
There are always some bugs. There are always cheaters and exploiters; unfortunately. These are people who believe they are owed something by everyone else and, throwing away whatever morality they have, they decide to take advantage of a situation. The comments of "It was there, no one fixed it, so it must be alright" lack integrity and personal responsibility. These people do need to be perma-banned. No two ways about it. Unfortunately, many people who did not know the exploits exist will be caught in this net.
Some people. for whatever reason, do not know enough to question things when someone else tells them to go do something. This happened the first couple of weeks of Guild Wars 2, (GW2). The GW2 team dug in and perma-banned some accounts, temp-banned others, fixed the exploit, took a lot of "user input" from the forums and on social sites.
They could easily rollback the game history as their market was not yet active and that is a large part of the difference here.
There is earned AD and Zen in the game and there is AD and Zen converted from "Real-life money". This is the difference and due to the exploits, I am concerned the economy is so far out of balance as to have, potentially, sustained a nuclear bomb.
There are those who proudly made "Real-life money" off of this exploit; at least one person appears to have done it as a professional saboteur; hiding their tracks, flaunting what they did, and even being so bold as to note they provided epics for their guild and have mule accounts holding many more items. This represents a complete imbalance in the game economy as soon as access is granted again.
I realize PW has been saying no wipe, but I do fully support a wipe. For the sake of the game economy and to remove all benefits received through Foundry and AH exploits, a wipe needs to be "On the table".
Yes, I will lose all of the time I have spent in-game. Yes, it will be frustrating to see the same leveling content; again. Still, with the exploits patched, better testing methods put in-place by PW (For the sake of all that is good, at least test!), and a caring user-base, leveling my characters all over will be worth it.
NOTE to PW:
As a group, you all are not innocent victims here. Time to pull-up your big-boy pants, admit what has been going on, and return this game to a level playing field. This would not have gone on if people had been responsible. The fact that a few foundry quests are pure exploits, were known by the user community as exploits, and remained active is a poor example of integrity.
The community will obviously judge what you do from here. Likely, you will not please anyone with your actions, but your actions will show the community how committed you are to this game and its future and on this, people will know whether they are able to trust their future enjoyment with you or not.
With PWG saying there is no wipes I don't think they truly thought it through before releasing that statement. The game hasn't been officially launched yet. In all states it is still fully in a "beta" stage. IF I was them I would take this opportunity to hike up their big boy socks and say "wow , we really missed that one" fix the problem, study the code , ban the guilty and for the sake of the community wipe the slate clean refunding Zen that was purchased.
I think in the long haul it will make for a stronger community and a better player base.
But then again maybe that's just me.
Really, there have NEVER in the history of MMOs ever been a GAME BREAKING bug that comes out in a live update...ever.
Oh, wait THIS VERY SAME TYPE of exploit happened in EQ2 about a year into live. Guess what happened, first all money in that game had a unique number so finding the exploited money was easy for them, and it went bye bye very quickly. They also band LOTS of accounts of people who attempted to "launder" the money as they knew exactly were it went and who had it.