...there was something that pulled whoever ran the twitter AFK for 40 mins so there could have been a meeting about it that whoever updated the post had to run off to deal with.
I started this session by working remotely -- it reached a point where I decided I needed all my tools, so I drove in to the office.
If a full wipe were to occur, I would not just want Zen I purchased to be refunded to my account. I'd want Zen to be refunded back to my credit card as well as the Founder's package.
I'm not down playing what you said. I'm frustrated with you if anything. I purchased founders 4 days ago nothing received. Now, I'm thinking due to this whole ordeal, I might not see it for another week or so.
"In computer networking, network address translation (NAT) is the process of modifying IP address information in IPv4 headers while in transit across a traffic routing device."
Wow. I guess I am once again right, and you are, hum... Wrong? The router maintains the connection table and rewrites the IP address in the header and checksums. My god you really dont know your OSI layers or technologies do you. Tell me, how many college campus PC's, users, etc share the same public IP? How many mobile devices? How many corporate devices? How many Starbuck and Internet Cafe? Because they are NAT behind public routers. Please, go back to school. Banning by IP is completely impossible.
Aren't you both right? The source and destination of a packet are inside the header, so if the NAT modifies/rewrites them, doesn't it partially rewrite the header?
I wonder how many people will be quitting due to them not doing a complete whipe, players will still be rolling around with gear and items that was gained through earlier bugs and exploits.
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yoyoyomMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
here is what I see the as the problem for them with a rollback or a wipe
1 it is sunday
2 their crack staff of lawyers are not working on a sunday to run all this by
3 their marketing department is not there either to send this past
4 they are working with skeleton crews on sundays
So this whole mess should have waited till monday to deal with when everyone is in the office.. Just my opinion
I cannot be hard to identify the accounts with zen/AD balances or spent that don't make sense statistically in comparison to the overall server population. As a short term measure why not move all accounts that fall into a questionable balance to a single server. For the accounts that are moved have an appeal process. In all likelihood those that exploited wont bother appealing since they know transaction logs can easily show they cheated.
Obviously in tandem with this you have to fix the exploit.
Lastly perhaps the solution is to implement a new form of money to slowly weed out the usefullness of AD. For those that have paid founder accounts an amount of this could be credited to their accounts. For those of us including me that have not paid we should realize those kind of changes could occur.
None of these likely full solutions but just trying to think outside the box.
Yes! Somebody else gets it! If I could I'd give you a trophy sir for thinking rationally! Considering most of the juveniles posting/spamming/trolling on the downtime well...need we say more? keyword being "juveniles"... Everything will be dealt with within a timely manner, these people are fortunate for the level of response given by the NW staff! I've been watching social media networks since the server went down and they have been spamming out individual responses all day! Cut the guys some slack and let them do their job. We'll find out what course of action happens soon enough...
Not really. None of the people saying "this is Beta" gets it. Open Beta is just that, beta testing open to the public. There was always a wipe at the end of it before the game went live because of bugs and such like this one. Game developers are just using a new ploy to cut down on some of the bad publicity by releasing a game before it's ready. If there isn't a wipe at the end of the beta testing then the game is live, no matter what label you want to stick on it.
Update 5:15 PM Pacific: We have most of the information in-hand, but are waiting on a few final details to determine our plan of action. To clarify one thing I've seen around on Twitter, whatever we ultimately decide to do, a full character wipe will not happen. We're doing everything we can to minimize the impact of this fix, so that it changes what must change, but not much else. Thank you all for your patience, we appreciate it and will have you back in-game as soon as possible.[color]
Then you have decided to NOT address all the exploits.
Why allow the exploiters to keep they ill-gotten gains? A full wipe is the only way to insure an even playing field.
Are you refunding part of the money we paid for Founders Packs? The value is certainly less than the $700 you advertised.
I am a Lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character
You seem to ignore the fact that closed beta had Zen purchasing, too. And that, at the end of closed beta, all purchased Zen was refunded into the buyers' game accounts.
Yes, PWE does things differently from other publishers. Sometimes, they don't go about things in the best way. But if you think that opening the game up to the public for the purposes of finding & fixing exploits, bugs, & server-load issues isn't an open beta, then you might want to rethink your definitions.
This is exactly why they do it. So people like you will fight their battle for them by making up illogical nonsense excuses & argue with anyone who says it's not really a beta. This way they don't have to defend their launching a flawed game, borrowing capital from their players so they don't have to pay interest on a loan, and delivering a sub-par experience to those who paid money by hiding behind a flank of zombie cheerleaders who swarm and attack anyone who says the first little criticism of PWs methods. Sorry but I'm not going to pretend with you. You go ahead though.
How about a wipe of all banks, all currency of any type, all gear/companions/mounts/etc. Then give a chest with a package of basic gear equivalent to the level of the characters on the account, gold and Nightmare Lockboxes equal to the half the level of the character. A basic mount for levels 20 and above.
Reset all feats and powers to zero spent.
Then, for all legitimate Zen purchases, refund the Zen to the account.
I find it disconcerting that the company was aware of this exploit in another game as well as in the alpha testing of this game and did nothing to fix this exploit until it blew up in their face. I would like to hear some sort of response from the company on this irresponsible behaviour.
This whole thing happened so many times in numerous games due to GREED.Since you have a game at a beta stage,why would you want to risk selling premium packages when you are not absolutely sure that you can uphold the terms safely?Don't get me wrong,i just started playing today,game looks super fun but the whole gig happened before just because the company is risking everything for some early stage profit.
Im a legit level 60 player and got the best loot of my 7 day play time 12 hours ago, if you roll back at all I will quit.
Me too, spent a couple days trying to get my tier head, just got it today and now it might be gone thanks to some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...
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fetoidbooMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Its funny how so many people play this game and yet not a single one has the patients to allow the game developers and employees to fix the problem. Hello people this is still in *BETA*. There is a reason they are allowing people to play a game that isn't in its finished state.... FOR REASONS LIKE THIS. This allows them to test the game and fix problems with that game so that people like you and I can enjoy playing it. Otherwise we might not have been able to play this game for another year or two after they finished having testers go through every in and out of the thing.
everybody still talking about wipe due to that still being the preferred method for the vocal majority. my self inculded $700 + in PWE games and I WILL burn my account over this.
I sorta get a warm fuzzy feeling inside thinking of the billions of ad gold sellers are about to lose.
Aren't you both right? The source and destination of a packet are inside the header, so if the NAT modifies/rewrites them, doesn't it partially rewrite the header?
\
this is the internet, everyone is right.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
This is outrageous! I demand at LEAST three taco's as compensation. Any less then three is unacceptable, I can't believe there is problems with this game that is in open-beta, I am definitly in a position to make demands! I am filing a lawsuit if i don't get these taco's, I will BACKTRACE this! the game has been down for more than 5 hours!
All they have shared is 1. - that they will be taking action against identified exploiters (this won't fix the broken economy). And, 2. - they won't be doing a full wipe (roll-backs are still an option).
In any case - the servers won't be comming up anytime soon. It's Sunday and they are going to want input from Finance, Marketing, and Legal departments before implementing any strategy. Also, banning accounts in itself takes some time to trace and implement. Finally, if a roll-back is in the future determining determining to what point in time to roll back to and testing takes signifcant time as well.
Go make some popcorn and watch Game of Thrones and get some shut-eye.
Exacly; most of the people complaining are probably individuals that actually used the exploit to begin with...so funny watching them squirm.
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nwmtriggerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I think people's anger is misplaced here, this is not PerfectWorld's fault, it's the fault of whatever idiot(s) exploited an obvious bug. Something from way back in the day of NWN persistant world gaming;
"If it seems to good to be true, it probably is, report it and make sure so you don't risk a ban"
So basically, someone exploited a bug or something, "stole" some astral diamonds, and now i will lose mine that I acquired from daily within days?
Tnks a lot, Cryptic. Seems fair. For you.
I understand where you're coming from, but what's been overlooked is that those diamonds you've farmed legitimately are worth 1000s of times less than what they should be since a fair number of people were making hundreds of millions of diamonds using an exploit. Unfortunately if they don't wipe the server many of these people will still have "mule" accounts active with plenty of diamonds that devalue your diamonds by a significant margin.
I hope to get in game soon. Drinking beer starting now until I get back into game(and probably when i get back into game too). Hopefully I dont pass out.
I see your beer, sir. And raise you shots of..... THE KRAKEN!!!
1. Whoever did cheat, even once, ban forever.
2. Whoever has 5 M Astral Diamond (ever), investigate that account and see if an exploit were ever used... if so, ban forever.
3. In additional to that, do a 2 days rollback.
everybody still talking about wipe due to that still being the preferred method for the vocal majority. my self inculded $700 + in PWE games and I WILL burn my account over this.
I sorta get a warm fuzzy feeling inside thinking of the billions of ad gold sellers are about to lose.
Sit back and enjoy the game. Arguing whether its BETA or not in your opinions is pointless. Because the game developers and maintainers say it is BETA. Case closed. Moan and groan all day if you want, you just look sad and ignorant. Its BETA, the community found a major currency glitch and now it is being fixed within 24 hours. Awesome in my opinion. Thank god it was found before official release and thank god it will only take a day. Blizzard(WoW), Riot(LoL), or EA(Lots) teams would have taken a lot longer and probably wouldn't officially comment on the glitch, they would just fix it and act like it never happened while masking the patch with the title "minor balancing patch".
Now I am going to do the three Ss (Sh**, Shower, and Shave) then go eat. By the time I am done, I will probably be able to sneak some gaming time in. Act civilized and do something similar rather then sitting on the forums pointless flaming.
Regardless of the fact they say its beta.. might as well call it early access because as they stated their not going to wipe anything. So that means we all get to keep or toons no matter the lvl. Long story short open beta = early access to neverwinter.
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thalackallaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Server Wipe
After all, it is "only a beta"... right?
Well, we know it is not. The Beta tag is just a marketing cover to push unfinished product out the door.
Money is changing hands after all so it is Live and For Consumption.
However, a Total Wipe is what this game needs to go forward.
This network conversation is comedy, many pretenders googling wiki info and acting like guru's.
Simply put, your standard residential internet connection is on a leased IP. Your bulk of your player base will be connecting from their homes. Thus, IP banning is not feasible.
Yes, this discussion about NAT can be applied to the topic at hand, but why would you even get into it if you understood the basic home internet connection?
Why are you even talking about NAT in commerical/public spaces? Who cares, this point should have been rendered dead to begin with.
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towematerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I don't think that one dude is going to get his tacos - just saying....
Comments
Not yet. We're getting closer to finalizing the plan, though.
I started this session by working remotely -- it reached a point where I decided I needed all my tools, so I drove in to the office.
Tnks a lot, Cryptic. Seems fair. For you.
I'm not down playing what you said. I'm frustrated with you if anything. I purchased founders 4 days ago nothing received. Now, I'm thinking due to this whole ordeal, I might not see it for another week or so.
(I did the ticket,phone, and forum thing)
Aren't you both right? The source and destination of a packet are inside the header, so if the NAT modifies/rewrites them, doesn't it partially rewrite the header?
1 it is sunday
2 their crack staff of lawyers are not working on a sunday to run all this by
3 their marketing department is not there either to send this past
4 they are working with skeleton crews on sundays
So this whole mess should have waited till monday to deal with when everyone is in the office.. Just my opinion
Obviously in tandem with this you have to fix the exploit.
Lastly perhaps the solution is to implement a new form of money to slowly weed out the usefullness of AD. For those that have paid founder accounts an amount of this could be credited to their accounts. For those of us including me that have not paid we should realize those kind of changes could occur.
None of these likely full solutions but just trying to think outside the box.
Not really. None of the people saying "this is Beta" gets it. Open Beta is just that, beta testing open to the public. There was always a wipe at the end of it before the game went live because of bugs and such like this one. Game developers are just using a new ploy to cut down on some of the bad publicity by releasing a game before it's ready. If there isn't a wipe at the end of the beta testing then the game is live, no matter what label you want to stick on it.
Then you have decided to NOT address all the exploits.
Why allow the exploiters to keep they ill-gotten gains? A full wipe is the only way to insure an even playing field.
Are you refunding part of the money we paid for Founders Packs? The value is certainly less than the $700 you advertised.
Reset all feats and powers to zero spent.
Then, for all legitimate Zen purchases, refund the Zen to the account.
Me too, spent a couple days trying to get my tier head, just got it today and now it might be gone thanks to some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...
I sorta get a warm fuzzy feeling inside thinking of the billions of ad gold sellers are about to lose.
this is the internet, everyone is right.
You have been made a fool of :http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1eebyi/an_exploiter_claims_to_have_made_almost_six/
He still gets to keep his purple items, I don't think you banned him.
3 tacos is off the table
Counter offer: 1 warm,dead goldfish
In any case - the servers won't be comming up anytime soon. It's Sunday and they are going to want input from Finance, Marketing, and Legal departments before implementing any strategy. Also, banning accounts in itself takes some time to trace and implement. Finally, if a roll-back is in the future determining determining to what point in time to roll back to and testing takes signifcant time as well.
Go make some popcorn and watch Game of Thrones and get some shut-eye.
Hero of the North
"If it seems to good to be true, it probably is, report it and make sure so you don't risk a ban"
Simple rule, easily implemented
I understand where you're coming from, but what's been overlooked is that those diamonds you've farmed legitimately are worth 1000s of times less than what they should be since a fair number of people were making hundreds of millions of diamonds using an exploit. Unfortunately if they don't wipe the server many of these people will still have "mule" accounts active with plenty of diamonds that devalue your diamonds by a significant margin.
I see your beer, sir. And raise you shots of..... THE KRAKEN!!!
1. Whoever did cheat, even once, ban forever.
2. Whoever has 5 M Astral Diamond (ever), investigate that account and see if an exploit were ever used... if so, ban forever.
3. In additional to that, do a 2 days rollback.
That would be it. done deal.
I sorta get a warm fuzzy feeling inside thinking of the billions of ad gold sellers are about to lose.
Regardless of the fact they say its beta.. might as well call it early access because as they stated their not going to wipe anything. So that means we all get to keep or toons no matter the lvl. Long story short open beta = early access to neverwinter.
After all, it is "only a beta"... right?
Well, we know it is not. The Beta tag is just a marketing cover to push unfinished product out the door.
Money is changing hands after all so it is Live and For Consumption.
However, a Total Wipe is what this game needs to go forward.
c'mon Chant with me !
Wipe
Wipe
Wipe
Simply put, your standard residential internet connection is on a leased IP. Your bulk of your player base will be connecting from their homes. Thus, IP banning is not feasible.
Yes, this discussion about NAT can be applied to the topic at hand, but why would you even get into it if you understood the basic home internet connection?
Why are you even talking about NAT in commerical/public spaces? Who cares, this point should have been rendered dead to begin with.