This network conversation is comedy, many pretenders googling wiki info and acting like guru's.
Simply put, your standard residential internet connection is on a leased IP. Your bulk of your player base will be connecting from their homes. Thus, IP banning is not feasible.
Yes, this discussion about NAT can be applied to the topic at hand, but why would you even get into it if you understood the basic home internet connection?
Why are you even talking about NAT in commerical/public spaces? Who cares, this point should have been rendered dead to begin with.
Because we're bored. And complaining about the developers is of no use, since they're working as hard as they can.
And I love how both these guys seem to have forgotten the original point, and that I think they are actually agreeing but still yelling at each other.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Destroy the enemy, just save some for me!
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lamentleviathanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
My hotel is as clean as an elven <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>!
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panini49Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Looking for some clarification here - while I understand that there isn't going to be a full wipe when the game goes live and characters are expected to keep their level, is there any indication that the economy still won't be reset?
I find it disconcerting that the company was aware of this exploit in another game as well as in the alpha testing of this game and did nothing to fix this exploit until it blew up in their face. I would like to hear some sort of response from the company on this irresponsible behaviour.
Inb4 fox news tries to tie this to the Obama administration.
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bagranMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Looking at all of this and rolling my eyes. I remember reporting Gold Spammer and Miners back in the old EQ days. Remembering banning guild members who would mine PvP by going in and finding a spot to put their character so they would get the credit without them having to actually work.
Funny thing is those people are the losers, if you are like me and play simply to have some enjoyment, then the only pain they cause is if they manage to lose you a match in a PvP side. That said I remember being one of the first ones who figured out in WoW to take my Tank in their PvE gear and a few of us simply ran all the way down to the end boss and kill them using our purple PvE geared toons. For that a bunch of us got flamed when instead they just should have figured out to find us and kill us on the way down. In PvE gear and PvE spec it wouldnt have been hard but instead they whined and whined about it.
Did it on both sides in WoW and it worked for both groups especially if you also took and held the graveyard at the base. That way a wipe didnt even cause that many problems. Oh yeah we had pre-mades try it against us, it was fun taking out their healers from behind while also doing a ninja on the graveyard and watching them wipe and we rolled them back up and won. That said, I am actually a lousy PvP player, but we won by being on Vent and working out the tactics.
Frankly do the wipe and get it over with it is Open Beta.
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cutegayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
If someone wants to play completely free they will grow old and die before they ever make enough AD to buy a mount and companion on one character. The economy is completely setup so that if you don't spend money you are screwed.
Either you need to lower the price on AD purchased items or give us way more options to acquire AD with.
To all the people who bought the founders pack, that's all great, your supporting, that's fine.. but understand this is a FREE-TO-PLAY game that nobody has to pay for unless they CHOOSE to.
Get off of your high horse and understand that just because you paid a little money your opinions matter more, because they don't. infact, the great majority of people playing this game haven't spent a cent.
You dont deserve any more privileges than us, you did not pay for some kind of higher rank you paid your money for a pack of ITEMS for YOURSELVES which you have.. so shut up.
Talking about the 'economy is ruined' yeah... its a bad, we all know, the people who exploited it should be banned, as they said, ther character-specific bans, great idea. But rolling back people who have been playing the game for hours and made great progress will annoy people greatly
Aswell as that, you realise that the only people that are saying, 'wipe everything, its the only way' are also saying 'give all the founder and zen people their stuff back' all you really want is for everyone to get set back so you can step up again with your little paid advantage, or your 'free respec' and stuff like that and think your so imperial.
Okay you ban most all the guys that have ridiculous amounts of diamonds..
The Auction house is a place where players trade amongst eachother, there are very little advantages you can get with a ton of astral diamonds, what can you get?.. some zen points and buy a nice looking mount and companion? how, pray-tell-me does that affect the other players.
Using the auction house is optional as a point of trade, you dont HAVE to use it at all, you can simply go get your own materials, i was online and except for the few minus bid auction items i bypassed, every other piece being sold was at a decent price so nothing was really that bad, it was just the very rare few odd individuals that had more diamonds, sheesh just fix the AH, wipe their diamonds and that be it.;):D:p:o
You know with this much downtime obviously a lot of people are going to be ticked off me included. I would think it would be in their best interest to offer some sort of compensation for all our downtime and more so if they actually roll back at all. Might I suggest a reward of some kind to alleviate some of our pains might turn most of the negative feedback to positive. An advanced Companion for all active players that were not involved in the issues. Maybe and advanced mount to all or a 10 pack of enchanted keys so we might get one. I mean if it goes on to long you could always give everyone a founders pack im sure that would make everyone smile except perhaps the people who have already purchased one lol.
Seriously though so many games take a serious hit to there player community when these things happen especially when they affect the games economy. I just saw the same thing happen a few weeks ago on diablo3 auction house and as a result you have more players like me here trying out a new game. Something to offset the pain of lost time and leveling especially when it is down this long on the weekend would do a lot to bolster the community around you rather then chasing them away when things like this happen. It should be commensurate with the downtime based on the high end of the spectrum of what a person could reasonably accomplish in the allotted time if he were adventuring nonstop as many do to keep people happy. Keep in mind people are losing experience loot and the fun of play during the entire time it is down. An advanced companion that can be leveled beyond 15 and not something easy for anyone to get might be a nice compensation and wouldnt further unbalance the economy of the game in any way.
Anyway just my thoughts a little something back to the community would be a nice token of your goodwill and dedication to your players.
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xdprophetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Aren't you both right? The source and destination of a packet are inside the header, so if the NAT modifies/rewrites them, doesn't it partially rewrite the header?
Nope. I am right. snappypants is wrong. Continuously wrong. He has been advocating for the last hour the ability to ban accounts by IP address. He is a NAT = Network Address Troll
Folks, please remember this game is still in beta. This means that when the game goes live, you may have complete character rollback anyway. Hopefully you will not but beta means testing and getting rid of actual bugs such as this one. Not actual play. If people have spent real $$ on this game, I hope that they do not rollback your characters, they should have not allowed real money purchases on a beta version.
False, Perfect World has done this with other games as well without rollbacks/server wips at launch. I played the Forsaken World Open Beta for years before actual launch, dealing with players acting on tons of exploits in all avenues of PVE/PVP. They were simply nerfed/patched/fixed/resolved, and the economy never really stabilized from it IMO. But no character was ever rolled back or servers wiped.
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milkstashMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
If you've been following twitter, and polls on this very forum you'd see that, what, 70% of your playerbase actually want a pwipe to happen? Sometimes you just have to nuke it from orbit. You know, just to be safe
is pwipe shortform for ***** wipe?
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lamentleviathanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
I wonder how many people will be quitting due to them not doing a complete whipe, players will still be rolling around with gear and items that was gained through earlier bugs and exploits.
Nah. What will happen, though, is that they'll see people walking around with better equipment than they have, earned by in-game effort or legitimate cash purchases, and pitch a whiny-fit trying to *claim* they got it by exploiting. The same old ninja-loot jealousy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, really.
Come to think of it, this is one of the reasons I *do* tend to prefer to run solo in MMOs--I like the expansive worlds you can only find in MMOs and Bethesda games, and the ability to *choose* to be social, just by chatting if nothing else, but all this petty competitive garbage I'd just as soon leave to the little weenie-waggers, while I measure progress with the only yardstick that matters--me, vs the game.
Are the servers ever online? Everytime I feel like playing, the servers are offline.
I come to these forums to find out whats going on and all I can find is this one moderator spamming the dev thread with replies which make no sense because I dont know what he is answering to. Something like "Thanks for the information, we are working on this very hard." Working on what?!
Starting to lose my hope with this game. ^^
There is huge issue right now... a hack or glitch allowed for an exploit in the auction house listings where you could list an item with a negative figure in astral diamonds and cash out after the auction ended, 'refunding' the negative amount of astral diamonds. Essentially giving you something for nothing. I'm sure that billions of astral diamonds were introduced into the economy during the 8-12hrs? that this was taking place. The biggest problem (for PWE) is that we can exchange astral diamonds for Zen. This exploit completely ruins the entire economy and brings down the balance of their cash cow, the zen market. Depending on how many transactions were made with the exploited astral diamonds, this could have affected 1000s of players and basically thrown the whole economy of the game off balance.
They started by 'looking into the issue'... this resulted in suspension of all auction house activity and the zen exchange, then the zen market. The shards were brought down to halt all activity on the log file. They've been working on this for 4-5hrs? now. The big decision is what they are going to do about solving the issue. The easiest and probably most fiar way to deal with this is to a complete reset. I believe their thinking is that the number of people who made use of this exploit is probably fairly small in comparison to the whole field so why 'punish' everyone. However, it could take days for them to find the path of every exploited astral diamond and if they don't do a complete wipe - the economy will always be slightly off balance.
So, that is what is going on... we are still waiting to hear the 'end of the line'.
So, a broken system is better then players having to restart? I mean this will have a lasting effect on the game.. as where a wipe resets most players a month?.... Wipe and Refund
I find it ironic and somewhat satisfying to know that if they roll it back they screw over the sellers that actually bought thousands of dollars worth of AD from people. I think despite upsetting some players this is a great way to punish people who try to make a business off of someone else's game. The sad thing is the guy who sold the AD at a lower cost to these people will get away with his profit.
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davidcoppafeelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Folks, please remember this game is still in beta. This means that when the game goes live, you may have complete character rollback anyway. Hopefully you will not but beta means testing and getting rid of actual bugs such as this one. Not actual play. If people have spent real $$ on this game, I hope that they do not rollback your characters, they should have not allowed real money purchases on a beta version.
False, Perfect World has done this with other games as well without rollbacks/server wipes at launch. I played the Forsaken World Open Beta for years before actual launch, dealing with players acting on tons of exploits in all avenues of PVE/PVP. They were simply nerfed/patched/fixed/resolved, and the economy never really stabilized from it IMO. But no character was ever rolled back or servers wiped.
Agreed. Having the bad luck of playing mostly on weekends, this hurts.
The economy isn't ruined unless this was widespread. I have not heard how many accounts are involved (is it 40%, or just 1 %) If it is just 1%, I would think they can just destroy those accounts and any account they "shared" mail with - as those are the laundered money accounts. If it is closer to 10%, this could be a mess for months. Farmers and gold vendors are nothing new - there are always those trying to make a buck. They are always looking for ways to cheat for profit, and they have years of experience covering their tracks - so they know all the tricks. Fingers crossed this is just a bunch of gold spammers and to be honest, those idiots are in almost every game online and I hope they are banned quickly (if found, that's not always easy either - just ask WoW). The only fix, sell AD for less than the spammers - but my guess is, that would make all AD prices go way up. Yes, rock and hard place indeed....
That is NOT necessarily true. I have 4 "Mails" in my inbox by others advertising the sale of astral Diamonds and gold! So my account should be banned because they looked in my shared info and sent me a mail? Nope,I don't think so. Whatever they will do , they will do. You gain NOTHING by worrying about it because like everyone else ( mostly) we have absolutely NO control whatever happens. I also spent my day doing other things. When it comes back up I'll play , Till then I have other games and things to do
May the Good Lord keep you always in His Loving Arms
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oceanoftearsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
If not wipe, i will open a dispute with PayPal for money back.
Welp, you are SOL there, read PayPal's UA:
13.3 Ineligible Items. PayPal Purchase Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:
Comments
Because we're bored. And complaining about the developers is of no use, since they're working as hard as they can.
And I love how both these guys seem to have forgotten the original point, and that I think they are actually agreeing but still yelling at each other.
hmmm...can they?
Destroy the enemy, just save some for me!
Inb4 fox news tries to tie this to the Obama administration.
Funny thing is those people are the losers, if you are like me and play simply to have some enjoyment, then the only pain they cause is if they manage to lose you a match in a PvP side. That said I remember being one of the first ones who figured out in WoW to take my Tank in their PvE gear and a few of us simply ran all the way down to the end boss and kill them using our purple PvE geared toons. For that a bunch of us got flamed when instead they just should have figured out to find us and kill us on the way down. In PvE gear and PvE spec it wouldnt have been hard but instead they whined and whined about it.
Did it on both sides in WoW and it worked for both groups especially if you also took and held the graveyard at the base. That way a wipe didnt even cause that many problems. Oh yeah we had pre-mades try it against us, it was fun taking out their healers from behind while also doing a ninja on the graveyard and watching them wipe and we rolled them back up and won. That said, I am actually a lousy PvP player, but we won by being on Vent and working out the tactics.
Frankly do the wipe and get it over with it is Open Beta.
They can't handle it.
You obviously didn't read this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1eebyi/an_exploiter_claims_to_have_made_almost_six/
The guy only got a 72hr ban on one of his MULE accounts.
Either you need to lower the price on AD purchased items or give us way more options to acquire AD with.
Whisper me, as these pages are going to fast
Get off of your high horse and understand that just because you paid a little money your opinions matter more, because they don't. infact, the great majority of people playing this game haven't spent a cent.
You dont deserve any more privileges than us, you did not pay for some kind of higher rank you paid your money for a pack of ITEMS for YOURSELVES which you have.. so shut up.
Talking about the 'economy is ruined' yeah... its a bad, we all know, the people who exploited it should be banned, as they said, ther character-specific bans, great idea. But rolling back people who have been playing the game for hours and made great progress will annoy people greatly
Aswell as that, you realise that the only people that are saying, 'wipe everything, its the only way' are also saying 'give all the founder and zen people their stuff back' all you really want is for everyone to get set back so you can step up again with your little paid advantage, or your 'free respec' and stuff like that and think your so imperial.
Okay you ban most all the guys that have ridiculous amounts of diamonds..
The Auction house is a place where players trade amongst eachother, there are very little advantages you can get with a ton of astral diamonds, what can you get?.. some zen points and buy a nice looking mount and companion? how, pray-tell-me does that affect the other players.
Using the auction house is optional as a point of trade, you dont HAVE to use it at all, you can simply go get your own materials, i was online and except for the few minus bid auction items i bypassed, every other piece being sold was at a decent price so nothing was really that bad, it was just the very rare few odd individuals that had more diamonds, sheesh just fix the AH, wipe their diamonds and that be it.;):D:p:o
Seriously though so many games take a serious hit to there player community when these things happen especially when they affect the games economy. I just saw the same thing happen a few weeks ago on diablo3 auction house and as a result you have more players like me here trying out a new game. Something to offset the pain of lost time and leveling especially when it is down this long on the weekend would do a lot to bolster the community around you rather then chasing them away when things like this happen. It should be commensurate with the downtime based on the high end of the spectrum of what a person could reasonably accomplish in the allotted time if he were adventuring nonstop as many do to keep people happy. Keep in mind people are losing experience loot and the fun of play during the entire time it is down. An advanced companion that can be leveled beyond 15 and not something easy for anyone to get might be a nice compensation and wouldnt further unbalance the economy of the game in any way.
Anyway just my thoughts a little something back to the community would be a nice token of your goodwill and dedication to your players.
Nope. I am right. snappypants is wrong. Continuously wrong. He has been advocating for the last hour the ability to ban accounts by IP address. He is a NAT = Network Address Troll
False, Perfect World has done this with other games as well without rollbacks/server wips at launch. I played the Forsaken World Open Beta for years before actual launch, dealing with players acting on tons of exploits in all avenues of PVE/PVP. They were simply nerfed/patched/fixed/resolved, and the economy never really stabilized from it IMO. But no character was ever rolled back or servers wiped.
is pwipe shortform for ***** wipe?
Nah. What will happen, though, is that they'll see people walking around with better equipment than they have, earned by in-game effort or legitimate cash purchases, and pitch a whiny-fit trying to *claim* they got it by exploiting. The same old ninja-loot jealousy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, really.
Come to think of it, this is one of the reasons I *do* tend to prefer to run solo in MMOs--I like the expansive worlds you can only find in MMOs and Bethesda games, and the ability to *choose* to be social, just by chatting if nothing else, but all this petty competitive garbage I'd just as soon leave to the little weenie-waggers, while I measure progress with the only yardstick that matters--me, vs the game.
Just started with screwdrivers. And I have more vodka. VIVA LA DOWNTIME!!
There is huge issue right now... a hack or glitch allowed for an exploit in the auction house listings where you could list an item with a negative figure in astral diamonds and cash out after the auction ended, 'refunding' the negative amount of astral diamonds. Essentially giving you something for nothing. I'm sure that billions of astral diamonds were introduced into the economy during the 8-12hrs? that this was taking place. The biggest problem (for PWE) is that we can exchange astral diamonds for Zen. This exploit completely ruins the entire economy and brings down the balance of their cash cow, the zen market. Depending on how many transactions were made with the exploited astral diamonds, this could have affected 1000s of players and basically thrown the whole economy of the game off balance.
They started by 'looking into the issue'... this resulted in suspension of all auction house activity and the zen exchange, then the zen market. The shards were brought down to halt all activity on the log file. They've been working on this for 4-5hrs? now. The big decision is what they are going to do about solving the issue. The easiest and probably most fiar way to deal with this is to a complete reset. I believe their thinking is that the number of people who made use of this exploit is probably fairly small in comparison to the whole field so why 'punish' everyone. However, it could take days for them to find the path of every exploited astral diamond and if they don't do a complete wipe - the economy will always be slightly off balance.
So, that is what is going on... we are still waiting to hear the 'end of the line'.
Has anyone thought if there's something, as we, the community of players can do to reestabilish a fair economy?
Afterall we do kinda run the Auction House...
So yeah... Instead of just going "NUKE IT!" ever thought about... I dunno "Terraforming"?...
False, Perfect World has done this with other games as well without rollbacks/server wipes at launch. I played the Forsaken World Open Beta for years before actual launch, dealing with players acting on tons of exploits in all avenues of PVE/PVP. They were simply nerfed/patched/fixed/resolved, and the economy never really stabilized from it IMO. But no character was ever rolled back or servers wiped.
fyi: This bug was in Star Trek Online as well, so they already knew of this before releasing into open beta.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/view/forums/thread/385386/Wait-this-bug-existed-in-STO-another-PWE-game-and-they-still-let-it-go-through-to-NW-.html
Okay, NOW there's a message. Thanks for wasting my time.
That is NOT necessarily true. I have 4 "Mails" in my inbox by others advertising the sale of astral Diamonds and gold! So my account should be banned because they looked in my shared info and sent me a mail? Nope,I don't think so. Whatever they will do , they will do. You gain NOTHING by worrying about it because like everyone else ( mostly) we have absolutely NO control whatever happens. I also spent my day doing other things. When it comes back up I'll play , Till then I have other games and things to do
Welp, you are SOL there, read PayPal's UA:
Okay, NOW there's a message on the launcher. Thanks for wasting my time.
finished #1 on 2
everyone roll for initiatives.