wipe the game you fools, this isn't a hard decision to make. Let me elaborate. WIPE. THE. GAME.
inb4 i havent put any time into this game.
I've played this game legit ever since release, everyday, never exploited (no foundry, no gf, no cw, no pirates, no AH). Its BECAUSE I play legitly that I support a full wipe. Reimburse the people their money and wipe. By the way, a wipe will only help if cryptic gets their act together and fixes exploits before they are discovered or AS SOON AS they are discovered. Cryptic knew about the previously existing exploits for many many days before fixing. Such game breaking exploits MUST RESULT in a server shutdown and extended maintenance. Its like this company has no idea what it's doing.
I like how the original update was: At this stage, the possibility of performing a shard-wide is unlikely.
Then it got stealth-edited into: We are also investigating the possibility of a shard-wide rollback.
While it'll be relatively easy to identify the accounts who abused the AH, tracking laundering is virtually impossible: You don't have the manpower to track cats (980k AD reservoirs) over several accounts, and you cannot tell if there are parties involved who acted in good faith. Stuff like cats is also why assessing damage by comparing monetary bases (AD in system before and after) doesn't work.
A rollback would be the cleanest solution. Yes, people would get over it, those claiming otherwise most likely have vested interests.
Rollbacks are common in MMOs, both UO and WoW often rolled back in their early years, Diablo3 Asia had a rollback, too. I could cite countless rollbacks in MMO history. It's the right thing to d do once damage isn't reliably trackable any more like in our case. RL sales are affected, too, as founder packs effectively got devalued.
Lobbying against a rollback means lobbying for rewarding the more creative cheaters. I hope Cryptic/PWI can find the courage to both do a rollback and perma-ban exploiters liberately. It would look good to paying customers.
While NO ONE really wants to have a rollback. I'd rather do some things over again than just having people materialize in game wealth and speed ahead any progress I could make unfairly. Even if that would mean working twice as hard to make sure everyone has an even playing field. Well said, sir
I still can't believe this same exploit was available to players in STO, and Cryptic didn't learn from their mistake while developing the auction house for Neverwinter. That's just embarrassing.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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wetwiredMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I went power levelling over the weekend. If I have to do that again because they have to rollback after not having checked their stuff before sticking it out for players, I'll be more than annoyed. In the last 24 hours, I went from 30 to 56 before the server canned out, I won't be redoing it. If their patches are going to be that volatile, then it's not worth wasting my time on. Or anyone else's.
I want my RL money back if they start doing cr
azy rollbacks.
A Especific investigation to Find who participate on the exploit AND Ban 0, i mean Forever for that ppls...! AND If the ppl its a hero, or a guardian one, just give them another pack and let they start from 0...!
ITS the better way to go... Because wipe will just ruin everthing... and a rollback may not work perfectly for every guilty one..
People concerned about AD ruining the economy aren't thinking. Cryptic can easily ban / delete ADs from people's accounts. They can just sort their entire database of characters with Astral Diamonds in excess of 3 million and delete anyone's AD with huge numbers like 100M+ ad and manually check those with large (but not suspiciously large) ADs to see where they got them. Problem fixed 99%.
The other 1% is for the AD that was smuggled into mule accounts but who cares about a small number of ADs? Anything more than 10M ad will be on Crypti'c radar simply by searching their database. Only mules with relatively tiny amounts of AD will get away with anything, and its a small sum.
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ahkronnemesisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
A lot of keys and exotic companions were also being sold for gold through chat advertisement and not for a lot of gold.
I guess those companions and keys were bought with exploited AD AD->Zen.
Although those who bought it might not have participate directly on the exploit, they did got advantages through it.
That and as necronomnicon said, transfers to alts, points out that a global shard rollback might be the best option.
It's a big pain for anyone that has nothing to do with the exploit, but would cover all escape routes used by the exploiters.
[Campaign] Into the Heart of Time (NWS-DLSK763NH) by @ahkronnemesis
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
Doing a wipe would prove that this is a real beta test and not just some pr excuse. They won't though, because it isn't
It'll just be a short rollback. Not the biggest thing in the world and it can work really well. Alternatively this will go into the history books as the worst (beta)launch ever.
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ahkronnemesisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
- Slow forum tricked me into a double post -
[Campaign] Into the Heart of Time (NWS-DLSK763NH) by @ahkronnemesis
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
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cerebral79Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
screw this talk about server wipes and rollbacks, i can still enjoy he game despite the fact that others have tons of AD and dont have to work for their gear/items. if they want the easy way fine, i shouldnt be punished and have to start over because people wanted to take the easy way out.
TBH if there have been exploits of this severity then a full wipe or items, gold, and AD along with a Zen refund is the only real solution. Whether or not now is the right time to implement a wipe, is the real question. It may be that PW need to make sure that their are no remaining exploits before performing a reset on the economy.
Partial rollback would be nice, but it can be quite difficult to determine what to roll back. Money will have changed hands, or have been converted into items, which also may have changed hands. Resetting the economy would be the easiest, except that there will be people running around with items worth millions, which will upset the new economy as well. Only Cryptic can tell how much of an impact this would have though.
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savagermt1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
TBH if there have been exploits of this severity then a full wipe of items, gold, and AD along with a Zen refund is the only real solution. Whether or not now is the right time to implement a wipe is the real question. It may be that PW need to make sure that their are no remaining exploits before performing a reset on the economy.
Hanspeth Voorg - Master Of The Arcane Arts
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zippyhappychimpMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
lol, server wipe, ffs no, if you havent participated in exploiting you shouldnt have your character wiped because someone else cheated, there are other ways of resolving this issue.
What you're not taking into account is:
1. Person 1 exploits and pretty much print's himself money.
2. Person 1 buys 800 items from Normal Player 1. Normal Player 1 is now rich, though most of that is counterfeit.
Do you wipe out all that counterfeit money? If you don't it's still in the economy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> things up, causing massive inflation, etc etc. But if you do, you're "punishing" a normal player.
Now add in all the toys that Normal Player 1 buys from Normal Players 2 though 10 with his new found cash. And what THEY buy...
The same questions apply, but it gets tougher and tougher. "sorry, we're wiping your bank account out because all that money you got was generated by an exploit 20 transactions ago."
*IF* the exploit was truly a zero day exploit, only having been abused by in the last XX hours, then a rollback is clearly the answer. Normal Players still get screwed out of any progress they've gotten but THERE IS NO PERFECT ANSWER.
But this exploit has been in play since day 1, or very near that. As with many exploits, a very select few have been abusing it in a semi-controlled manner for months. You can't roll that back. And the appropriate logs, IF THEY EVER EXISTED (don't laugh, so many companies fail so hard at this part), have long since been wiped. Not to mention the huge man-hours it takes to dig through what logs are available to try to track this stuff down.
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nodic3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
For me personally, I can accept that some people are goign to be ahead of me no matter what. I'd rather just avoid having the last however many hours of my game time erased. I had taken a day off work to enjoy the game and relax a bit, it would be a slap in the face to have it 'rolled back' .
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aspen1979Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 64
edited May 2013
Feel like you could of gave more warning on dropping the Shard to stop us from wasting runs and game play. Your hurting those of us that play fair. Which sucks.
I've got a founders pack and I believe its far better to do a complete rollback and allow the original diamonds given back to accounts.
I just started 3 or 4 days ago. Days roll back would be a wipe to myself. Besides how can on justify a small roll back when you have no true idea how far the damage extends? Just wipe it and allow us to start over. It would teach everyone a valuable lesson. Report bugs immediately so there are no exploits.
Doing a wipe would prove that this is a real beta test and not just some pr excuse. They won't though, because it isn't
It'll just be a short rollback. Not the biggest thing in the world and it can work really well. Alternatively this will go into the history books as the worst (beta)launch ever.
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I want my RL money back if they start doing crazy rollbacks.
i want mine back if they don't. it's not fair have scattered ten times more , if not way more than that even, zen in diamond form than I paid for with USD across multiple accounts to cash in on slowly down the road when the smoke clears. Ithis will always be unfair if they pick and choose where to apply wipes or rollbacks. exploiters will still have what they gained. there is no alternative, and assuming otherwise is beyond ignorant. and will take my money back, and will not continue playing if I find out these people will still be ablet o just play on one of those piggy banks and cash in over time on what they stockpiled.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
What about those of us that don't even use the AH or any other trading other than with the NPCs? I get my AD through crafting, invocation and dailies. I hoard my AD for the simple fact that I spend the majority of it on enchanting my armors. And what little Zen I've buy through the website goes toward those stupid lockbox keys.
I am not going to be happy at all if there's a shard-wide wipe or rollback. And frankly, I don't even see how either one would solve anything other than to royally tick people off. The *censored*'s who are exploiting should be punished, I agree, but not those of us who aren't involved. Besides, the exploiters will just find another way to take advantage of something else.
BTW... Absolutely loved the frickin in-game warning about the shards going down. Thank goodness I had already collected my reward for that crazy heifer I was fighting in the HD Cathedral. I do NOT want to have to repeat that quest... Grrr!!
Funny how in this massive post-fest there's very few posts that seem to be written by people who have stopped and thought for a while... (Oh and I'm considering posts that are also against the possible decision of rollback), then again it seems to be the most of this forums sadly, people ain't considering the game or the developers... But that's just people being selfish as always...
Anyhow, I have no idea what this bug is, as I've honestly never seen it (I usually go questin' or PvPin' soon as I login, only go AH in between waits or LoL matches), but for what I read it massively "hurt" the game... So, just throwin' it out there, but if you gotta rollback... I'm good with it, will be kinda annoying to have to repeat some stuff but that's a small price to pay to enjoy the whole experience in the future.
(Sorry for long post, I don't meant a general insult with the first paragraph, but some people sinceriously amaze me on how ... uncivilized can be)
can i get a rollback on time spend on this game then too ? ;p (15+hours each day)
nuts to start all over again, be sure to make arena points based on achieving things, otherwise you can rollback a thousand times but still getting pawned.
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s51000001Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
A full wipe would be an absolute disaster for the game and the company on a whole. They would have no option but to refund all cash spent to anyone who asks for it. They have stated many times there will be no more wipes since open beta began.
Many people who have purchased Zen may well have only done so to buy a specific item from the AH, a wipe would mean said item is no longer for sale and hence the desire to spend Zen has gone. People may have spent Zen on keys to get the horse from the boxes. The second time around they may well get a horse the first set of boxes meaning they didn't need to spend as much as they did.
The company would have to refund the full cash sum of any purchases to everyone if the wiped. This would cause the company a number of issues as i am sure they will have already spent a large portion of the money they have taken in. They only real solution is to ban those responsible and all accounts that have been accessed form the same IP address. Then just let the game continue and over time the the economy will level out again. I for one have not seen any real issue with the economy so far. As with every MMO the AH is packed full of over priced items.
Comments
All the people that have a/several lvl60's get screwed because some idiots decided to screw the system?
I think the fact that they are going to the trouble of trying to avoid wiping servers makes them a better company than you are a person.
inb4 i havent put any time into this game.
I've played this game legit ever since release, everyday, never exploited (no foundry, no gf, no cw, no pirates, no AH). Its BECAUSE I play legitly that I support a full wipe. Reimburse the people their money and wipe. By the way, a wipe will only help if cryptic gets their act together and fixes exploits before they are discovered or AS SOON AS they are discovered. Cryptic knew about the previously existing exploits for many many days before fixing. Such game breaking exploits MUST RESULT in a server shutdown and extended maintenance. Its like this company has no idea what it's doing.
If have another exploit they will keep using
Then it got stealth-edited into: We are also investigating the possibility of a shard-wide rollback.
While NO ONE really wants to have a rollback. I'd rather do some things over again than just having people materialize in game wealth and speed ahead any progress I could make unfairly. Even if that would mean working twice as hard to make sure everyone has an even playing field. Well said, sir
-Travail.
wright.
They actually even dont need a wipe. Just a rollback for a required ammount of days.
A Especific investigation to Find who participate on the exploit AND Ban 0, i mean Forever for that ppls...! AND If the ppl its a hero, or a guardian one, just give them another pack and let they start from 0...!
ITS the better way to go... Because wipe will just ruin everthing... and a rollback may not work perfectly for every guilty one..
The other 1% is for the AD that was smuggled into mule accounts but who cares about a small number of ADs? Anything more than 10M ad will be on Crypti'c radar simply by searching their database. Only mules with relatively tiny amounts of AD will get away with anything, and its a small sum.
I guess those companions and keys were bought with exploited AD AD->Zen.
Although those who bought it might not have participate directly on the exploit, they did got advantages through it.
That and as necronomnicon said, transfers to alts, points out that a global shard rollback might be the best option.
It's a big pain for anyone that has nothing to do with the exploit, but would cover all escape routes used by the exploiters.
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
It'll just be a short rollback. Not the biggest thing in the world and it can work really well. Alternatively this will go into the history books as the worst (beta)launch ever.
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
What you're not taking into account is:
1. Person 1 exploits and pretty much print's himself money.
2. Person 1 buys 800 items from Normal Player 1. Normal Player 1 is now rich, though most of that is counterfeit.
Do you wipe out all that counterfeit money? If you don't it's still in the economy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> things up, causing massive inflation, etc etc. But if you do, you're "punishing" a normal player.
Now add in all the toys that Normal Player 1 buys from Normal Players 2 though 10 with his new found cash. And what THEY buy...
The same questions apply, but it gets tougher and tougher. "sorry, we're wiping your bank account out because all that money you got was generated by an exploit 20 transactions ago."
*IF* the exploit was truly a zero day exploit, only having been abused by in the last XX hours, then a rollback is clearly the answer. Normal Players still get screwed out of any progress they've gotten but THERE IS NO PERFECT ANSWER.
But this exploit has been in play since day 1, or very near that. As with many exploits, a very select few have been abusing it in a semi-controlled manner for months. You can't roll that back. And the appropriate logs, IF THEY EVER EXISTED (don't laugh, so many companies fail so hard at this part), have long since been wiped. Not to mention the huge man-hours it takes to dig through what logs are available to try to track this stuff down.
I just started 3 or 4 days ago. Days roll back would be a wipe to myself. Besides how can on justify a small roll back when you have no true idea how far the damage extends? Just wipe it and allow us to start over. It would teach everyone a valuable lesson. Report bugs immediately so there are no exploits.
It'll just be a short rollback. Not the biggest thing in the world and it can work really well. Alternatively this will go into the history books as the worst (beta)launch ever.
i want mine back if they don't. it's not fair have scattered ten times more , if not way more than that even, zen in diamond form than I paid for with USD across multiple accounts to cash in on slowly down the road when the smoke clears. Ithis will always be unfair if they pick and choose where to apply wipes or rollbacks. exploiters will still have what they gained. there is no alternative, and assuming otherwise is beyond ignorant. and will take my money back, and will not continue playing if I find out these people will still be ablet o just play on one of those piggy banks and cash in over time on what they stockpiled.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
I am not going to be happy at all if there's a shard-wide wipe or rollback. And frankly, I don't even see how either one would solve anything other than to royally tick people off. The *censored*'s who are exploiting should be punished, I agree, but not those of us who aren't involved. Besides, the exploiters will just find another way to take advantage of something else.
BTW... Absolutely loved the frickin in-game warning about the shards going down. Thank goodness I had already collected my reward for that crazy heifer I was fighting in the HD Cathedral. I do NOT want to have to repeat that quest... Grrr!!
Anyhow, I have no idea what this bug is, as I've honestly never seen it (I usually go questin' or PvPin' soon as I login, only go AH in between waits or LoL matches), but for what I read it massively "hurt" the game... So, just throwin' it out there, but if you gotta rollback... I'm good with it, will be kinda annoying to have to repeat some stuff but that's a small price to pay to enjoy the whole experience in the future.
(Sorry for long post, I don't meant a general insult with the first paragraph, but some people sinceriously amaze me on how ... uncivilized can be)
nuts to start all over again, be sure to make arena points based on achieving things, otherwise you can rollback a thousand times but still getting pawned.
Many people who have purchased Zen may well have only done so to buy a specific item from the AH, a wipe would mean said item is no longer for sale and hence the desire to spend Zen has gone. People may have spent Zen on keys to get the horse from the boxes. The second time around they may well get a horse the first set of boxes meaning they didn't need to spend as much as they did.
The company would have to refund the full cash sum of any purchases to everyone if the wiped. This would cause the company a number of issues as i am sure they will have already spent a large portion of the money they have taken in. They only real solution is to ban those responsible and all accounts that have been accessed form the same IP address. Then just let the game continue and over time the the economy will level out again. I for one have not seen any real issue with the economy so far. As with every MMO the AH is packed full of over priced items.