Grinding is boring, and not how I would want to play a game. If you like to grind and waste your time and still think you're having a fun time then that's just your weird definition of fun getting in the way of having a real discussion. After this chat, I am certain you wouldn't know a good game if it hit you in the face.
p2w is selling clear advantage, plain and simple. This game does it. Have fun grinding otherwise. Me, I'd rather go play something on a more even playing field, away from the gold spammers/exploiters/p2w'ers. This game will never deal with exploiters. Whole thing is cheap and tawdry. At least real games actually withdraw exploited loots from the exploiters and even hand out bans.
And what's your suggestion for a trade-off? Give everything for free, a free lvl 60 set for everyone? Every loot in an epic dungeon should be purple? Crafting should take half an hour to max, at most?
If you don't want to grind, then what's the point of playing a game that is mostly about tasks, delving and skrmishing?
I am having fun with this game. Maybe not your definition of fun - but after all, I play for myself, not for others. I'm not sure who is the "bewildered" here after this conversation - I mean, if you hate this game model so much, why are you even spending time in these forums answering and badmouthing everyone who doesn't share your exact opinion?
The only un-fun things I usually do are chores, work and studying. Spending your leisure time in a thing you don't enjoy... well, unless you don't extract sensual pleasure from it, I don't see it profitable. Masochism I heard it's called.
Some people seem to confuse their expectations of what a game should be when critizing it instead of objectively talk about its virtues and flaws. You can't say an MMO is bad for having... well, things that make MMOs. Grinding, at least to one extent, is one of them. It's like complaining that a FPS is violent - well, it's supposed to be violent, because it's all about shooting people!
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Subscription games lets everyone grind at the same pace. p2w games sells fast power to people who pay.
My solution? Play a subscription game and get away from this nasty experience. People here seem to be oddly happy with this disparity (look up the word). Something wrong with this picture.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Subscription games lets everyone grind at the same pace. p2w games sells fast power to people who pay.
My solution? Play a subscription game and get away from this nasty experience. People here seem to be oddly happy with this disparity (look up the word). Something wrong with this picture.
Yet grinding is boring, yes? So why would I pay three months of gameplay to do nedless tasks over and over, and not even given the option of SKIP some of them? After all, you're just paying for the RIGHT of grinding, not attending to the fact that you don't like to grind.
Also, what does grinding faster or slower afect your own experience of the game?
There will always be people who get faster to endgame content. People who play 10 hours a day, don't attend college or work. You can't stop that. So in the end, there will be different paces for grinding.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
think this thread needs a TL;DR to stop folks walking like sheeple into a grinder.
The argument is not if this game is P2W, folks will always take the most draconian meaning for P2W and argue against that, it's not a straw man per say, but you no one can deny, that it's impossible to argue against a difference of opinion on definition when it comes to what "winning" is in a persistant online MMO, and they always have the old faithful "you can always grind"
The actual argument worth discussing, in my honest opinion that is, is simply
"Is the disparity between opening your wallet, and the advantages in progression it affords you. Too large when compared to the grind/AH gouge-fest you would have to do to achieve the same results"
either that or
"Are the grinding elements in this game badly made and boring, due to a lack of imagination and depth of storyline"
In fact there's a ton of issues here that aren't being worded correctly and being over simplified by the easily debunked "paytuuuwiin" arguments.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There will always be people who get faster to endgame content. People who play 10 hours a day, don't attend college or work. You can't stop that. So in the end, there will be different paces for grinding.
Paying as opposed to putting in hard work actually playing the game. That, is p2w. Do you not understand how this is not playing the game.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Paying as opposed to putting in hard work actually playing the game. That, is p2w. Do you not understand how this is not playing the game.
Uh, I think you're the one who doesn't understand what's a game, then. It shouldn't require "hard work" getting to where you want - unless you think too seriously about what should be entertainment.
Of course, there is a need of accomplishment and progresion that should be attended in order to make one's experience feel worthwhile and well invested. Another is "democratization of slaveplay" that only breed elitism and snobness, which can be experienced in your average WoW-esque game. I'm here to have a good time and to RP a character of my own devising, not to brag about some l33t pwnz0rd gear I got from a 62 man raid that requires gear from other sixteen elite-class dungens.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Uh, I think you're the one who doesn't understand what's a game, then. It shouldn't require "hard work" getting to where you want - unless you think too seriously about what should be entertainment.
Really? I don't understand games, because you're the one who thinks it's "fun" to bypass playing a game by buying your power.
You're mistaking "playing" for "hard work"...maybe you have spent far too much time playing f2p asian grinders and this is why your perspective is completely off.
How can someone have fun by not playing a game...when you load a game you expect to, you know, play...this being the whole point of games after all.
All you're doing is playing your bankroll. And you think that's how a game should be played :O Hilarious, I can see there's no point continuing talking to you.
Launching games in open beta state has become new way of f ppl for their money. Many companies do it, but i know only one that actually DID IT GOOD(mby 2):
-Dota 2
-Path of Exile
You cant buy shizzle that gives you adventage in any way and guess what ? THEY MAKE A LOT OF CASH AND EVERYONE NEVER COMPLAINS ABOUT P2W. I know dota 2 is different genere but idea of getting cash from cosmetic items and such isint new and IT IS SUCCESSFUL WAY. Making RMT site ingame by developer is just stupid and flewd.
Just wait till any new MMO comes out and HANDS UP "EXODUS TO NEW MMO" ...
People that will stay are only:
-people that dont care about p2w and rmt etc coz they enjoy the game (5% of current community)
-cheaters and exploiters, coz they own huge cash they wanna sell (15% of population)
-RMT sites toons
Trion Worlds has just announced that fantasy MMO RIFT will be headed free-to-play. Though former studio reps were once adamant that the game would remain a subscription MMO, the team has apparently decided it can better compete in a F2P world by being F2P. The hybrid model will include an optional sub with fully free content like dungeons and questing; consumables, cosmetics, and even gear will make up the cash shop.
We asked Creative Director Bill Fisher to explain the whys and wherefores of this decision. Check out our interview after the jump!
so f2p wins the battle
it new game it take time to make updates
It's not F2P, it's called FREEMIUM. Meaning you have two options. Play for Free but buy to unlock/access certain content and such, or Pay to Play, meaning you have everything for free but you have to pay a minimal fee every month. I'd take the monthly fee any time.
In the F2P player's mind, as long as it takes effort to obtain something in a game, it's boring/dull/<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>/a wow clone, and last but not least "OMG P2P IS TOO EXPENSIVE F2P IS TEH BESTESTTT!". Yup, better to waste a full year worth of subscription money the first couple months on a "Free to Play" game, cause at least you don't need to put in much of an effort in order to empty your wallet. Idiots usually pick the easiest way out and the F2P game devs know it. They just put a shiny pixel on a stick, attach it to your forehead and off you go. Only way to reach it is if you empty your wallet.
The term F2P is out of date. Why? Cause what you percieve as "Free" usually never is. There's a golden saying "If it's too good to be true, it usually is" and that really covers the entire term "Free to Play", cause it's not 100% Free.
I'm sure anyone with even half a brain can see that.
Reason i'm saying this is because i love putting in an effort when i'm playing mmorpgs, but i can only put in so much effort into a F2P game before i have to seriously pay up, or go back into the casual player line. I'm not a casual gamer, i'm a progressive gamer and i love doing end game content whenever i can, competing with likeminded players over shinies, but when i see F2P games, the only thing that come to mind is "Massive Money Sink"... P2P is a time sink, but at least i know i'll be satisfied once i reach a goal in any P2P game. Reaching a goal in a F2P game is like reaching into your wallet, handing the contents over to the developer every time you want something.
F2P ruined this great title (So did the rubberbanding which goes all the way back to Champions Online). This game would be so much more as a P2P game.
ESO is next for me and i can't wait. I'll leave the rest of the "kids" playing their F2P games, wasting their own money as well as their parents money on an eccessive amount of epics obtained through exploiting all the end game content this game has to offer, without the developers lifting a finger to ban them.
Toodles!
"For in this modern world, the instruments of warfare are not solely for waging war. Far more importantly, they are the means for controlling peace..."
~Admiral Arleigh Burke~
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baidusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
f2p games are disposable games. Only good for playing when your subscription game bores you.
I'm sorry to say but Lollie has hit the nail on the head here, I LOVE the game and its style of play but the F2P model will kill it in the end, if it was Sub based or had be pay of game and then only cosmetic store items and reasonable price it work have a better life expectation...
ESO is next for me and i can't wait. I'll leave the rest of the "kids" playing their F2P games, wasting their own money as well as their parents money on an eccessive amount of epics obtained through exploiting all the end game content this game has to offer, without the developers lifting a finger to ban them.
Toodles!
Rift, Star Trek Online, Warhammer, the latest Star Wars (this one especially) is the future of the ESO. The game will not live up to the hype, the community will be toxic and as a result word of mouth will slowly kill an enjoyable game. That is the fate of ESO. The game won't have this from Wow, or it needs this from GW2 and would be better if it had this from Rift. There won't be enough endgame content for the Power Gamers who will blast through content in a week maybe two. OMG only a handful of level 60s after a week the game is dead will be shouted across the internet as players jump from an obviously dead game with no developer support....
I have thrown too much money for sub based games only to watch them implode from entitled people who have no idea what it takes to build a game to begin with but feel the need t o pick away anyways because its their right.
At least with Free to Play I only have to invest a minimum over a short period of time to see if a game will survive
I'm sorry to say but Lollie has hit the nail on the head here, I LOVE the game and its style of play but the F2P model will kill it in the end, if it was Sub based or had be pay of game and then only cosmetic store items and reasonable price it work have a better life expectation...
The foundry for THIS game is what will save it from disaster as long as the tech behind it can improve over time.
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mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Rift, Star Trek Online, Warhammer, the latest Star Wars (this one especially) is the future of the ESO. The game will not live up to the hype, the community will be toxic and as a result word of mouth will slowly kill an enjoyable game. That is the fate of ESO. The game won't have this from Wow, or it needs this from GW2 and would be better if it had this from Rift. There won't be enough endgame content for the Power Gamers who will blast through content in a week maybe two. OMG only a handful of level 60s after a week the game is dead will be shouted across the internet as players jump from an obviously dead game with no developer support....
I have thrown too much money for sub based games only to watch them implode from entitled people who have no idea what it takes to build a game to begin with but feel the need t o pick away anyways because its their right.
At least with Free to Play I only have to invest a minimum over a short period of time to see if a game will survive
Very good and accurate prediction (and look at the sorry state the genre is reduced to)
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fullmetalpopeBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I swear it seems just like yesterday that I got to roll my fresh new hero on the HoTN Headstart. I was so excited to FINALLY be able to dive right into this brilliant game that I have been so patiently waiting for.
I hit 60 right on the OBT launch day.
It was only 2 weeks later that the game would already be flooded with cheap ridiculous exploits, malicious elitists, scam artists and rmt-bots.
It kinda upsets me to see the game in this condition.
I loved this game until it went into Open Beta.
Once again I find myself believing that F2P models ruin mmo's these days.
It's like a double-edged sword;
Yes it's nice to not have to pay for it or pay a recurring subscription;
but you have to take into account all of the <my eyes are burning!> that F2P games lure in.
I'm aware it's only been a few weeks into OBT. I'm aware things will be fixed in the future.
But one can only hope most of the negative things will be taken into consideration and be diminished.
I want to love this game again; but as of right now, I'm already looking for something else to play.
It really sucks to hear myself admit that, but Cryptic has a lot of work ahead of them.
I just hope they don't get overwhelmed.
It's not the F2P game. It is the Panhandler players. Gimme gimme gimme, I want everything for free. I admit, I have not payed a penny into this game. Partly cause the folks they are using to do CC transactions have my card on an account for another game, and I can't give them my money...yet. Mostly cause I'm still in the dog house for spending $235 one weekend on my primary game.:(
Free to play is balancing act. You want to play the game for free of course. But the Devs are trying to pay bills an feed bellies from the game they are developing.I don't know if any game has hit the perfect balance yet. For now I will play for free, wish I could drop some coin, an wonder how a on running game can be worth spending money on if so many people have maxed their levels in under 3 weeks.
Sounds pretty Monty Haul to me. And I love the Forgotten Realms.
I dont even mind the exploits it's so awful lategame anyway, exploits is kinda the only way one would bother grinding in these awful dungeons. Have tried most epic dungeons, and we have 3 options 1) Pullback the boss 10 miles or so, 2) Exploit, 3) spam healthstones :O. I really want to know what they talked about internally during the alpha, did they actually think there lategame were well designed?
Foundry without any progression, well that will be fun for 100 people or so :O. Anyway had my fun with the game, didnt last very long but thats okey still got my value i guess.... However i will never ever try another Crypticgame again.
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mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you ask me, if the company never intended for it to be F2P, they shouldn't have marketed it as F2P.
To be honest In would have preferred P2P or Freemium, but of course if they launched that way you would have had the same amount of kids screaming "P2P is FAIL" or worse.
It's not the F2P game. It is the Panhandler players. Gimme gimme gimme, I want everything for free. I admit, I have not payed a penny into this game. Partly cause the folks they are using to do CC transactions have my card on an account for another game, and I can't give them my money...yet. Mostly cause I'm still in the dog house for spending $235 one weekend on my primary game.:(
Free to play is balancing act. You want to play the game for free of course. But the Devs are trying to pay bills an feed bellies from the game they are developing.I don't know if any game has hit the perfect balance yet. For now I will play for free, wish I could drop some coin, an wonder how a on running game can be worth spending money on if so many people have maxed their levels in under 3 weeks.
Sounds pretty Monty Haul to me. And I love the Forgotten Realms.
Reading all of this just blows my mind. I was and still am a long time NWN player. When I think of how much enjoyment that game has given me for so little in return, it is just mind-boggling. Then I think of all the effort and content the community gave us, all for free and done just because they loved the hobby and weren't out to nickel and dime someone... I just want to curl up in a ball and cry for mommy.
$235 in one weekend is more than twice what I paid for a game that has entertained me for over a decade lol.
Reading all of this just blows my mind. I was and still am a long time NWN player. When I think of how much enjoyment that game has given me for so little in return, it is just mind-boggling. Then I think of all the effort and content the community gave us, all for free and done just because they loved the hobby and weren't out to nickel and dime someone... I just want to curl up in a ball and cry for mommy.
Brave adventurer! An orc scouting party has arrived just outside of the town limits you must prevent them from finding our location. Just donate $5 to my Geocities web ring to gain access to Land's End Gate.
But yah I loved NWN days spent on mod servers Wheel of Time mod ftw.
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fullmetalpopeBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's not about clicking through quests, it's about playing a MMO as a virtual world (for limited it might be) vs playing a MMO to rush to 'endgame' to.... well complain that there isn't anything to do
There is plenty of max level content in Neverwinter, which is great. The problem is they all use the same strategy excluding 3 fights.
That is probably why we were never allowed to go past level 50 in closed beta. To know how the max level content really was.
I would of rather seen three or four creative instances rather then wave after wave after wave of adds being thrown at you.
That is single handedly the most depressing thing about Neverwinter. Oh ya, and the total lack of communication as well. And the new daily exploits as well.
This is my first PWE game and will definitely be my last one as well.
There will always be people like that in MMOs, as there will always be exploitable systems, scam artists, and bots. As for the elitists, if they aren't being snobby elitists who pay actual money for cash shop items or subscriptions in f2p MMOs, they will be snobby elitists who spend too much time raiding, getting the best raid gear and refusing to play with anyone who doesn't spend as much time as they do/have as good gear as they do.
Its par for the course for any MMO, free to play or subscribe to play. Heck, I'm pretty sure you can find people like those in games like TF2.
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townheroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Stop wasting money on f2p games and you won't get your hopes up. I used to spend thousands of dollars on games all the time. I learned it was pointless because YOU WILL ALWAYS QUIT OR THE GAME WIL GET SHUT DOWN. Plus I mean come on. How can you complain when everyone and there mother knows how craptastic PWE in game economys are. They are all broken as heck.
Brave adventurer! An orc scouting party has arrived just outside of the town limits you must prevent them from finding our location. Just donate $5 to my Geocities web ring to gain access to Land's End Gate.
But yah I loved NWN days spent on mod servers Wheel of Time mod ftw.
I have no idea what that was, but if someone was trying to pull something shady, there were 100's of other servers that weren't. Some might have taken donations, but all the ones I played on even refused. I still play on World of Greyhawk now and then, need to join another weekly group soon.
I have no idea what that was, but if someone was trying to pull something shady, there were 100's of other servers that weren't. Some might have taken donations, but all the ones I played on even refused. I still play on World of Greyhawk now and then, need to join another weekly group soon.
I was trying to make a joke. This is why I didn't roll a bard.
The problem with all new MMO's is th endgame players really... they rush to the end in less then a week, maybe two and then spend the rest of the time complaining. You cannot create content for you type of players fast enough and expect to make any kind of profit. It is expensive to make endgame raids and dungeons especially when you have players that have the time to spend to plow through it.
Comments
And what's your suggestion for a trade-off? Give everything for free, a free lvl 60 set for everyone? Every loot in an epic dungeon should be purple? Crafting should take half an hour to max, at most?
If you don't want to grind, then what's the point of playing a game that is mostly about tasks, delving and skrmishing?
I am having fun with this game. Maybe not your definition of fun - but after all, I play for myself, not for others. I'm not sure who is the "bewildered" here after this conversation - I mean, if you hate this game model so much, why are you even spending time in these forums answering and badmouthing everyone who doesn't share your exact opinion?
The only un-fun things I usually do are chores, work and studying. Spending your leisure time in a thing you don't enjoy... well, unless you don't extract sensual pleasure from it, I don't see it profitable. Masochism I heard it's called.
Some people seem to confuse their expectations of what a game should be when critizing it instead of objectively talk about its virtues and flaws. You can't say an MMO is bad for having... well, things that make MMOs. Grinding, at least to one extent, is one of them. It's like complaining that a FPS is violent - well, it's supposed to be violent, because it's all about shooting people!
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Subscription games lets everyone grind at the same pace. p2w games sells fast power to people who pay.
My solution? Play a subscription game and get away from this nasty experience. People here seem to be oddly happy with this disparity (look up the word). Something wrong with this picture.
Yet grinding is boring, yes? So why would I pay three months of gameplay to do nedless tasks over and over, and not even given the option of SKIP some of them? After all, you're just paying for the RIGHT of grinding, not attending to the fact that you don't like to grind.
Also, what does grinding faster or slower afect your own experience of the game?
There will always be people who get faster to endgame content. People who play 10 hours a day, don't attend college or work. You can't stop that. So in the end, there will be different paces for grinding.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
The argument is not if this game is P2W, folks will always take the most draconian meaning for P2W and argue against that, it's not a straw man per say, but you no one can deny, that it's impossible to argue against a difference of opinion on definition when it comes to what "winning" is in a persistant online MMO, and they always have the old faithful "you can always grind"
The actual argument worth discussing, in my honest opinion that is, is simply
"Is the disparity between opening your wallet, and the advantages in progression it affords you. Too large when compared to the grind/AH gouge-fest you would have to do to achieve the same results"
either that or
"Are the grinding elements in this game badly made and boring, due to a lack of imagination and depth of storyline"
In fact there's a ton of issues here that aren't being worded correctly and being over simplified by the easily debunked "paytuuuwiin" arguments.
Paying as opposed to putting in hard work actually playing the game. That, is p2w. Do you not understand how this is not playing the game.
Uh, I think you're the one who doesn't understand what's a game, then. It shouldn't require "hard work" getting to where you want - unless you think too seriously about what should be entertainment.
Of course, there is a need of accomplishment and progresion that should be attended in order to make one's experience feel worthwhile and well invested. Another is "democratization of slaveplay" that only breed elitism and snobness, which can be experienced in your average WoW-esque game. I'm here to have a good time and to RP a character of my own devising, not to brag about some l33t pwnz0rd gear I got from a 62 man raid that requires gear from other sixteen elite-class dungens.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Really? I don't understand games, because you're the one who thinks it's "fun" to bypass playing a game by buying your power.
You're mistaking "playing" for "hard work"...maybe you have spent far too much time playing f2p asian grinders and this is why your perspective is completely off.
How can someone have fun by not playing a game...when you load a game you expect to, you know, play...this being the whole point of games after all.
All you're doing is playing your bankroll. And you think that's how a game should be played :O Hilarious, I can see there's no point continuing talking to you.
-Dota 2
-Path of Exile
You cant buy shizzle that gives you adventage in any way and guess what ? THEY MAKE A LOT OF CASH AND EVERYONE NEVER COMPLAINS ABOUT P2W. I know dota 2 is different genere but idea of getting cash from cosmetic items and such isint new and IT IS SUCCESSFUL WAY. Making RMT site ingame by developer is just stupid and flewd.
Just wait till any new MMO comes out and HANDS UP "EXODUS TO NEW MMO" ...
People that will stay are only:
-people that dont care about p2w and rmt etc coz they enjoy the game (5% of current community)
-cheaters and exploiters, coz they own huge cash they wanna sell (15% of population)
-RMT sites toons
It's not F2P, it's called FREEMIUM. Meaning you have two options. Play for Free but buy to unlock/access certain content and such, or Pay to Play, meaning you have everything for free but you have to pay a minimal fee every month. I'd take the monthly fee any time.
In the F2P player's mind, as long as it takes effort to obtain something in a game, it's boring/dull/<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>/a wow clone, and last but not least "OMG P2P IS TOO EXPENSIVE F2P IS TEH BESTESTTT!". Yup, better to waste a full year worth of subscription money the first couple months on a "Free to Play" game, cause at least you don't need to put in much of an effort in order to empty your wallet. Idiots usually pick the easiest way out and the F2P game devs know it. They just put a shiny pixel on a stick, attach it to your forehead and off you go. Only way to reach it is if you empty your wallet.
The term F2P is out of date. Why? Cause what you percieve as "Free" usually never is. There's a golden saying "If it's too good to be true, it usually is" and that really covers the entire term "Free to Play", cause it's not 100% Free.
I'm sure anyone with even half a brain can see that.
Reason i'm saying this is because i love putting in an effort when i'm playing mmorpgs, but i can only put in so much effort into a F2P game before i have to seriously pay up, or go back into the casual player line. I'm not a casual gamer, i'm a progressive gamer and i love doing end game content whenever i can, competing with likeminded players over shinies, but when i see F2P games, the only thing that come to mind is "Massive Money Sink"... P2P is a time sink, but at least i know i'll be satisfied once i reach a goal in any P2P game. Reaching a goal in a F2P game is like reaching into your wallet, handing the contents over to the developer every time you want something.
F2P ruined this great title (So did the rubberbanding which goes all the way back to Champions Online). This game would be so much more as a P2P game.
ESO is next for me and i can't wait. I'll leave the rest of the "kids" playing their F2P games, wasting their own money as well as their parents money on an eccessive amount of epics obtained through exploiting all the end game content this game has to offer, without the developers lifting a finger to ban them.
Toodles!
~Admiral Arleigh Burke~
I'm sorry to say but Lollie has hit the nail on the head here, I LOVE the game and its style of play but the F2P model will kill it in the end, if it was Sub based or had be pay of game and then only cosmetic store items and reasonable price it work have a better life expectation...
Rift, Star Trek Online, Warhammer, the latest Star Wars (this one especially) is the future of the ESO. The game will not live up to the hype, the community will be toxic and as a result word of mouth will slowly kill an enjoyable game. That is the fate of ESO. The game won't have this from Wow, or it needs this from GW2 and would be better if it had this from Rift. There won't be enough endgame content for the Power Gamers who will blast through content in a week maybe two. OMG only a handful of level 60s after a week the game is dead will be shouted across the internet as players jump from an obviously dead game with no developer support....
I have thrown too much money for sub based games only to watch them implode from entitled people who have no idea what it takes to build a game to begin with but feel the need t o pick away anyways because its their right.
At least with Free to Play I only have to invest a minimum over a short period of time to see if a game will survive
The foundry for THIS game is what will save it from disaster as long as the tech behind it can improve over time.
Very good and accurate prediction (and look at the sorry state the genre is reduced to)
All of these folks need to be banned, no exception.
Free to play is balancing act. You want to play the game for free of course. But the Devs are trying to pay bills an feed bellies from the game they are developing.I don't know if any game has hit the perfect balance yet. For now I will play for free, wish I could drop some coin, an wonder how a on running game can be worth spending money on if so many people have maxed their levels in under 3 weeks.
Sounds pretty Monty Haul to me. And I love the Forgotten Realms.
Foundry without any progression, well that will be fun for 100 people or so :O. Anyway had my fun with the game, didnt last very long but thats okey still got my value i guess.... However i will never ever try another Crypticgame again.
To be honest In would have preferred P2P or Freemium, but of course if they launched that way you would have had the same amount of kids screaming "P2P is FAIL" or worse.
It's the nature of the beast
Reading all of this just blows my mind. I was and still am a long time NWN player. When I think of how much enjoyment that game has given me for so little in return, it is just mind-boggling. Then I think of all the effort and content the community gave us, all for free and done just because they loved the hobby and weren't out to nickel and dime someone... I just want to curl up in a ball and cry for mommy.
$235 in one weekend is more than twice what I paid for a game that has entertained me for over a decade lol.
Brave adventurer! An orc scouting party has arrived just outside of the town limits you must prevent them from finding our location. Just donate $5 to my Geocities web ring to gain access to Land's End Gate.
But yah I loved NWN days spent on mod servers Wheel of Time mod ftw.
There is plenty of max level content in Neverwinter, which is great. The problem is they all use the same strategy excluding 3 fights.
That is probably why we were never allowed to go past level 50 in closed beta. To know how the max level content really was.
I would of rather seen three or four creative instances rather then wave after wave after wave of adds being thrown at you.
That is single handedly the most depressing thing about Neverwinter. Oh ya, and the total lack of communication as well. And the new daily exploits as well.
This is my first PWE game and will definitely be my last one as well.
I still have hope and have not given up yet.
Its par for the course for any MMO, free to play or subscribe to play. Heck, I'm pretty sure you can find people like those in games like TF2.
I have no idea what that was, but if someone was trying to pull something shady, there were 100's of other servers that weren't. Some might have taken donations, but all the ones I played on even refused. I still play on World of Greyhawk now and then, need to join another weekly group soon.
I was trying to make a joke. This is why I didn't roll a bard.
Ugh, and I claim to love satire... sorry it's late.
Then mmos are not for you. You would be better served playing one of those games you enjoy.