I must say I am not a fan of the healing in this game either. I feel more like a tank than a healer. Just sort of biding my time until Scourge Warlock comes out...if that's not the next class, I doubt I will keep playing.
Ranger...as I understand, is the next class. I mean..seriously...how could they launch a fairy-eun setting with the ultimate fairy drizzle spit do nuthin and not have the dual wielding class to begin with..../boggle
Cleric...yeah, I play one...I'm a HAMSTER.
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filcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Response to OP:
ad 1) You can have 4 Divinity Charges and you can have build based all around direct heals. BUT coz DC have very strong AoE heals, this build is not a favorite atm.
ad 2) In divinity mode you don't have any charges on Healing Word, so if you are fast enough to generate divinity, you can spam this one.
BTW even if there is some direct heal without cooldown (in others MMO's) you are always limited by "charges/mana". So nothing is different here.
ad 3) Almost every heal we have is group wide ie. healing everyone in the party. Are you playing same class like me?
ad 4) It's a bug and only workaround is to have good group.
You know, I never found the excuse that healing is a "thankless" job as justified.
I have rarely seen people get thanked for doing their job well and those who do tend to comment on each role equally.
If you're a good healer and get no complaints then take that as a compliment. Your thanks is no abuse. Same applies to tanks because every group needs a tank, too. Everyone loves tanks but they never thank them afterwards.
Believe it or not the same goes for damage dealers, too. You think they get thanked? Hell no. What they do is stroke their own epeen, thanking themselves. Nobody thanks a good dps just as nobody thanks a good healer or tank, they only even mention you if you're absolutely horrible.
I've found it's in human nature to exasperate the negatives in life. Most people only see something when it's not there or it ain't working properly.
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naamapeikkoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited May 2013
Most MMORPGs have the exactly same combat system of tank standing still smashing boss and healer spamming the said tank. I think healing(and tanking too in fact) in this game is new and refreshing. Just too bad every boss encounter is the same with the abilities and add types varying.
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kimblogieMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
I must say it takes a special bread to play a healer or tank.
ppl need to try to heal bifore thy make stupid comments to there healer.
I played healers in other mmo's and its everywaire the same. If ppl abuse you just suck it up and leave them or just dont pug. In guilds you wont get the abuse. At least ont in a good one. A guild wil help you to make the best of it.
I played healers as my main characters from the ancient days of Ultima Online through almost every mmo up to Neverwinter Online and, for the first time I actually find it amusing. The only problem, as OP stated, is incredible (hopefully) broken aggro build up for Clerics.
I've enjoyed playing healer in most MMOs that I've played, but being healer in this game is one of the most unfun things I've ever had the misfortune of experiencing. Putting aside the fact that healing in MMOs is often a thankless task (every group needs a healer, but most groups don't really show any appreciation for your healing; they kind of take you for granted if you do your job properly, and rage at you needlessly if you're not doing it properly), there's a myriad of problems with healing in this game, namely:
1. There are NO direct heals in this game without having to use up Divinity. Most of the so-called "heal" abilities in this game either a) require to you to attack an enemy (Astral Seal, Sacred Flame) or b) require Divinity mode to function as a heal (Forgemasters flame). Even the closest ability to a direct heal (Healing Word), only applies a slow Regen effect on party members. Sure I could switch to Divinity mode for a direct heal, but when there's four other party members all critically low on health, and only 3 divinity charges to use, healing quickly becomes a nightmare. Seriously, who the hell thought this was good game design?
2. On the subject of Healing Word, why is it that I only have a max of 3 charges to use, and there's a 1 second pause between each charge, and when I run out of charges I have wait roughly TEN SECONDS before I can cast it again? IN EVERY OTHER MMO I'VE PLAYED, healers always have at least one spammable DIRECT HEAL ability with no cooldown whatsoever. Why does this game have to be different?
3. The complete lack of groupwide heals in this game. I don't consider Guardian Angel to be a proper groupwide heal since it heals for so little that it's virtually useless in epic dungeons. I guess you might be able to say Astral Shield is a group heal to an extent but it's not because a) it only heals those who are in its area of effect and b) as always, it requires Divinity mode in order to heal.
4. My biggest problem: the excessive amount of aggro that healing creates in this game. I've lost count of the number of times that all the adds would attack me instead of anyone else just for simply casting one healing spell. This of course distracts me from being able to heal the rest of the party because I have to waste time dodging adds. Cue the rest of my party yelling abuse at me like "WHY THE HELL ARENT U HEALING ME IDIOT GOD UR USELESS". Well genius, it's kinda hard to focus on healing you when the mobs are turning me into a human pinata and taking me down. "WELL THEN STOP GOING DOWN IDIOT". Well gee sir, I'd love to stay alive, if it weren't for all the ten million adds who all decided to turn their attention to me in unison, for the immense crime of casting one little healing spell. Adds that YOU proceeded to then ignore to whack away at the boss while the adds murder me with impunity, so it's clearly my fault. Silly me for not realizing that clerics are actually supposed to be tanks in this game, despite the fact that IN EVERY OTHER MMO clerics are supposed to be healers and NOT tanks. I guess Guardian Fighters are just there to relax and look pretty while clerics do all the tanking for them -_-
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go roll a Trickster Rogue and dps to my heart's content. Or just play a different game entirely. Healing in this game is a fool's errand.
1) Yeah this sounds pretty crappy.
2) Well You are supposed to be preying to "cast" your healing. And that you can do it what sounds like an unlimited number of times then a 10 second wait). Seems more than fair to my D&D spell casting memory.
3) Go nothing for this one.
4) Smart players kill the healers and casters first. So the Mobs are fighting smart as far as I hear.
You ma have missed a thread I started last week that thanked random Clerics for Walk by healing my sorry GWF butt. Your Healing IS appreciated even if you party may forget to say so.
Needs to roll back to 3.5 or at least run true 4.0. Get AC hit or miss involved. A long list of spells for divine and arcane casters to choose from. Why does everyone get hit all the time. Is there never a miss. ... What is this model... wheres the D&D in this D&D game?
its easy to solve i think all id like to see healing word stack up 2 times and actualy put the spell on twice this would sort the healing out without overpowering it i think (e.g atm healing word cast twice is 2x length id like to see healing word cast twice its on twice so heals 5 a sec for 15 sec to 10 a sec for 15 secs not 5 a sec for 30 secs if this makes sense)
but most classes can heal themselves + tanks can take a cleric companion on top of it
if the tank dies its the healers fault if the healer dies its the tanks fault unless stupid comes out the closit :P
Well, this is not WoW and it is not a WoW clone, so healing does not work like in those games. Clerics here are more like an off-tank/dps hybrid who provides damage reduction and AoE HoTs. A little like shadow priests in WoW, but still quite different.
There is nothing wrong with healing in this game, other than the aggro issue. It is only a problem if you expect a cleric to be a WoW-style of MMO healer. It is not, luckily for those who do not want to be a healbot, but instead prefer a more action-oriented playstyle. (I played a healer for nearly eight years in WoW, and being a healbot and babysitter described it best.)
Can't be half afk healbot? Poor you.
I'm having a blast on my cleric BECAUSE of the reasons you don't like it.
This is NOT another wow clone, this is a game where you need to use your brain cells as a healer and have skill, you clearly lack it, reroll asap.
And if someone dies, its THEIR OWN FAULT, not mine.
Needs to roll back to 3.5 or at least run true 4.0. Get AC hit or miss involved. A long list of spells for divine and arcane casters to choose from. Why does everyone get hit all the time. Is there never a miss. ... What is this model... wheres the D&D in this D&D game?
Its NOT a D&D game, why would anyone think that? No one ever said it is.
Its ACTION BASED MMO RPG SETTLED IN NEVERWINTER SETTING, how hard is that to comprehend?
Right, and they've never said one way or the other what the next class. That's all a speculation post. So there is still hope for me.
Theres hope...then there is delusional wishes.
Just saying...odds are that it is going to be the ranger...as they already have a mock up of it, and as I understand it, it was available in some few phases of the beta as well......
wow clone... the only thing that resembles D&D here in this game is the setting "Forgotten Realms" all else. wow clone. Bliz made a killing, WoC wants a slice of the pie so they duped wow, and slapped a D&D label on it.
vaxxianMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm still currently enjoying healing on my cleric, and it is still very much my main (currently level 60, running tier 1, dabbled in tier 2). Yes I see a lot of stupid in runs but as a healer, I know I can control the ebb end flow of some fights, as well as the speed the team moves through the dungeons.
A lot of the stupidity I see is the DPS rushing ahead to the next (one, two, three? Try the boss?) batch of mobs, leaving me, and/or the tank to clean up. Initially I'd rush on ahead, trailing mobs in my wake while getting beat on to keep up. But no more. I'll stay back, do the clean up they so clearly insisted said I can handle and they can either wait (and maybe die) in their desire to forge ahead.
So often I see this being done under the illusion of it being faster when a lot of times it frequently isn't. The best runs I've had are the ones where the group moves as a single unit and focus firing. Those are the best runs I've had and enjoyed the most.
Any criticism directed my way I usually respond with my typical canned response of "you know where the blue circle is, stand in it. There's enough healing going out, it's not my fault you aren't taking advantage of it." If you disagree with this mentality strongly enough, either drop group, ask me to drop, or kick me if you are the leader. I won't take it personally and good luck finding a more accommodating healer next time.
says neverwinter D&D on it. Yes im sure i see that on the title.
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purpleorbesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 186Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
You clerics need to find and play with me (TR) Nothing but gratitude and respect at those who play cleric. You all must have a pretty hard time in the Epic Dungeons. My friend (CW) and I always need a good cleric... and we wont even call you names when we get hit. When I die its my fault..no one else's.
Its NOT a D&D game, why would anyone think that? No one ever said it is.
Its ACTION BASED MMO RPG SETTLED IN NEVERWINTER SETTING, how hard is that to comprehend?
Why would anyone think that ? ....or....why would anyone who has played DnD and this game think it is DnD? ...
First question: Probably because of the DnD logo plastered all over the games advertisements and promotions.
2nd: not a clue. No magic missle....no raise dead/ressurection/FARTing/..it definately isnt a DnD game to most of the DnD gamers.
1. There are NO direct heals in this game without having to use up Divinity.
This is exactly why I like the Devoted Cleric. It's all about damage prevention, buffs, and healing through giving damage. I love that mechanic, but naturally others will not, which is also fine.
2. On the subject of Healing Word, why is it that I only have a max of 3 charges to use
Healing Word is not a very good spell compared to e.g. Forgemaster (just my opinion), but in any case more than 3 charges would be too much and tbh not very much required. When I in some cases run with Healing Word and run out of charges it is because I have misused them, normally my Group heals handle enough.
3. The complete lack of groupwide heals in this game.
This I don't understand where you're getting from. We have at least three:
- Astral shield cast in divinity mode is easily the single best healing spell in the game and a must have. It not only shields the Group but also regenerates crazy amounts of life.
- Sun Burst is one of my personal favorites. Huge range, damages enemies and heals all Allies caught by it, and on top of that it generates a crazy amount of action points.
- Forgemaster's Flame is actually a Group heal as all close to the mob it is cast on gets the heal
The above three is my chosen encounter powers for epic dungeons and it Works perfectly. Now I never use Bastion of Health, but that is a fourth AoE heal. So how is it we do not have any groupwide heals at all? Yes, the Group have to be in range, but that is the responsibility of the Group to be close.
4. My biggest problem: the excessive amount of aggro that healing creates in this game.
No matter how much Cryptic reduces threat generated by healing spells, e.g. by removing threat from overhealing, you will comtinue to have this problem. Personally I love this because I have built my cleric to offtank (using Unspecified's build), but the thing is more or less all boss encounters in this game is based around spawning more and more adds, and Cryptic can lower your threat on healing by 80% and you would still get aggro because the spawns haven't been hit.
In my experience from running a lot of epic dungeon now, no GF or any other class for that matter have trouble getting the adds/boss off me if they start attacking it, the question is: Do they attack the spawned adds, or do they focus on the boss leaving you to kite/offtank the adds. No amount of "fixes" can change the simple fact that some threat is higher than none, when neither tank or dps have hit the adds (on a sidenote I would much rather have an adds hitting me than a TR e.g., as they go Down way more quickly than I do).
Honestly I think the Devoted Cleric are working quite well as it stands, it is just that it is so different from any other game, that it's not necessarily for everyone, who normally enjoy playing healer.
Its NOT a D&D game, why would anyone think that? No one ever said it is.
Its ACTION BASED MMO RPG SETTLED IN NEVERWINTER SETTING, how hard is that to comprehend?
Please notice the D&D banner just over the large Neverwinter at the top of the page. Any idea what that means?
Its NOT a D&D game, why would anyone think that? No one ever said it is.
Its ACTION BASED MMO RPG SETTLED IN NEVERWINTER SETTING, how hard is that to comprehend?
the amount of pots and heal items I go through as a cleric is ridiculous. Then to have a group member die and rage at you because they now have injury and no kits to fix said injury.. classic
My current strat is to keep myself alive, and toss heals when I can. But healing has fallen to a 2nd or 3rd tier priority. I say let them use their own pots, rez scrolls (bought group rez scrolls once. complete waste trying to support the group,) and support items.
I will have finished the available content by this weekend. At that time I'll give the T1 dungeons a go. I'm not expecting much as there are zero new fight mechanics/scenarios for the "advanced" dungeons, and no raid content. Just more adds. After that it will be highly unlikely that I'll continue to play the game anyways.
Comments
Cleric...yeah, I play one...I'm a HAMSTER.
ad 1) You can have 4 Divinity Charges and you can have build based all around direct heals. BUT coz DC have very strong AoE heals, this build is not a favorite atm.
ad 2) In divinity mode you don't have any charges on Healing Word, so if you are fast enough to generate divinity, you can spam this one.
BTW even if there is some direct heal without cooldown (in others MMO's) you are always limited by "charges/mana". So nothing is different here.
ad 3) Almost every heal we have is group wide ie. healing everyone in the party. Are you playing same class like me?
ad 4) It's a bug and only workaround is to have good group.
1. Crappy DPS get hit more.
2. Healer needs to heal them more.
3. Healer gets more aggro.
4. Healer dies.
5. Crappy DPS accuse healer of being crappy.
I have rarely seen people get thanked for doing their job well and those who do tend to comment on each role equally.
If you're a good healer and get no complaints then take that as a compliment. Your thanks is no abuse. Same applies to tanks because every group needs a tank, too. Everyone loves tanks but they never thank them afterwards.
Believe it or not the same goes for damage dealers, too. You think they get thanked? Hell no. What they do is stroke their own epeen, thanking themselves. Nobody thanks a good dps just as nobody thanks a good healer or tank, they only even mention you if you're absolutely horrible.
I've found it's in human nature to exasperate the negatives in life. Most people only see something when it's not there or it ain't working properly.
ppl need to try to heal bifore thy make stupid comments to there healer.
I played healers in other mmo's and its everywaire the same. If ppl abuse you just suck it up and leave them or just dont pug. In guilds you wont get the abuse. At least ont in a good one. A guild wil help you to make the best of it.
2) Well You are supposed to be preying to "cast" your healing. And that you can do it what sounds like an unlimited number of times then a 10 second wait). Seems more than fair to my D&D spell casting memory.
3) Go nothing for this one.
4) Smart players kill the healers and casters first. So the Mobs are fighting smart as far as I hear.
You ma have missed a thread I started last week that thanked random Clerics for Walk by healing my sorry GWF butt. Your Healing IS appreciated even if you party may forget to say so.
*shrugs*
You decide.
but most classes can heal themselves + tanks can take a cleric companion on top of it
if the tank dies its the healers fault if the healer dies its the tanks fault
There is nothing wrong with healing in this game, other than the aggro issue. It is only a problem if you expect a cleric to be a WoW-style of MMO healer. It is not, luckily for those who do not want to be a healbot, but instead prefer a more action-oriented playstyle. (I played a healer for nearly eight years in WoW, and being a healbot and babysitter described it best.)
I'm having a blast on my cleric BECAUSE of the reasons you don't like it.
This is NOT another wow clone, this is a game where you need to use your brain cells as a healer and have skill, you clearly lack it, reroll asap.
And if someone dies, its THEIR OWN FAULT, not mine.
Its NOT a D&D game, why would anyone think that? No one ever said it is.
Its ACTION BASED MMO RPG SETTLED IN NEVERWINTER SETTING, how hard is that to comprehend?
Theres hope...then there is delusional wishes.
Just saying...odds are that it is going to be the ranger...as they already have a mock up of it, and as I understand it, it was available in some few phases of the beta as well......
A lot of the stupidity I see is the DPS rushing ahead to the next (one, two, three? Try the boss?) batch of mobs, leaving me, and/or the tank to clean up. Initially I'd rush on ahead, trailing mobs in my wake while getting beat on to keep up. But no more. I'll stay back, do the clean up they so clearly insisted said I can handle and they can either wait (and maybe die) in their desire to forge ahead.
So often I see this being done under the illusion of it being faster when a lot of times it frequently isn't. The best runs I've had are the ones where the group moves as a single unit and focus firing. Those are the best runs I've had and enjoyed the most.
Any criticism directed my way I usually respond with my typical canned response of "you know where the blue circle is, stand in it. There's enough healing going out, it's not my fault you aren't taking advantage of it." If you disagree with this mentality strongly enough, either drop group, ask me to drop, or kick me if you are the leader. I won't take it personally and good luck finding a more accommodating healer next time.
As a healer you have this control to some extent.
Why would anyone think that ? ....or....why would anyone who has played DnD and this game think it is DnD? ...
First question: Probably because of the DnD logo plastered all over the games advertisements and promotions.
2nd: not a clue. No magic missle....no raise dead/ressurection/FARTing/..it definately isnt a DnD game to most of the DnD gamers.
Sounds delicious!
This is exactly why I like the Devoted Cleric. It's all about damage prevention, buffs, and healing through giving damage. I love that mechanic, but naturally others will not, which is also fine.
Healing Word is not a very good spell compared to e.g. Forgemaster (just my opinion), but in any case more than 3 charges would be too much and tbh not very much required. When I in some cases run with Healing Word and run out of charges it is because I have misused them, normally my Group heals handle enough.
This I don't understand where you're getting from. We have at least three:
- Astral shield cast in divinity mode is easily the single best healing spell in the game and a must have. It not only shields the Group but also regenerates crazy amounts of life.
- Sun Burst is one of my personal favorites. Huge range, damages enemies and heals all Allies caught by it, and on top of that it generates a crazy amount of action points.
- Forgemaster's Flame is actually a Group heal as all close to the mob it is cast on gets the heal
The above three is my chosen encounter powers for epic dungeons and it Works perfectly. Now I never use Bastion of Health, but that is a fourth AoE heal. So how is it we do not have any groupwide heals at all? Yes, the Group have to be in range, but that is the responsibility of the Group to be close.
No matter how much Cryptic reduces threat generated by healing spells, e.g. by removing threat from overhealing, you will comtinue to have this problem. Personally I love this because I have built my cleric to offtank (using Unspecified's build), but the thing is more or less all boss encounters in this game is based around spawning more and more adds, and Cryptic can lower your threat on healing by 80% and you would still get aggro because the spawns haven't been hit.
In my experience from running a lot of epic dungeon now, no GF or any other class for that matter have trouble getting the adds/boss off me if they start attacking it, the question is: Do they attack the spawned adds, or do they focus on the boss leaving you to kite/offtank the adds. No amount of "fixes" can change the simple fact that some threat is higher than none, when neither tank or dps have hit the adds (on a sidenote I would much rather have an adds hitting me than a TR e.g., as they go Down way more quickly than I do).
Honestly I think the Devoted Cleric are working quite well as it stands, it is just that it is so different from any other game, that it's not necessarily for everyone, who normally enjoy playing healer.
Did you ever look at the top of your web page?
I mean the exact page you are looking at now.
Look at the logo on the top.
Now tell me how stupid you feel.
My current strat is to keep myself alive, and toss heals when I can. But healing has fallen to a 2nd or 3rd tier priority. I say let them use their own pots, rez scrolls (bought group rez scrolls once. complete waste trying to support the group,) and support items.
I will have finished the available content by this weekend. At that time I'll give the T1 dungeons a go. I'm not expecting much as there are zero new fight mechanics/scenarios for the "advanced" dungeons, and no raid content. Just more adds. After that it will be highly unlikely that I'll continue to play the game anyways.