Expected no less from the failures at Cryptic/PWE tbh.
All we can do is enjoy the ride and when the ride isn't favorable we can figure out ways to make it enjoyable. Some times it takes the form nuking the of AH with cheap epics.
F2P games aren't the problem, pay-to-win is. Not only this but if you're basing the concept of F2P on the social interaction then that's not the games fault either. Are you seriously trying to blame Cryptic/PWE for another player being a total jerk?
Subscription games aren't better. You think people behave better because they pay $15 a month? Go do a few pick-up raid/dungeon/pve groups in World of Warcraft and lemme know how that goes for you.
F2P games aren't the problem, pay-to-win is. Not only this but if you're basing the concept of F2P on the social interaction then that's not the games fault either. Are you seriously trying to blame Cryptic/PWE for another player being a total jerk?
Subscription games aren't better. You think people behave better because they pay $15 a month? Go do a few pick-up raid/dungeon/pve groups in World of Warcraft and lemme know how that goes for you.
P2W isn't a problem for anything but PvP. In fact, P2W is precisely what makes the Zen/AD exchange work.
P2W isn't a problem for anything but PvP. In fact, P2W is precisely what makes the Zen/AD exchange work.
Might be so if you are a PvPer mostly. Same concern exists for the PvE crowd, whats the point of scripted PvE if you can just pay money to get all the gear and then just faceroll everything. Some decent guilds will prevent that from happening but the rest of the world needs to deal with that crowd in random groups.
Might be so if you are a PvPer mostly. Same concern exists for the PvE crowd, whats the point of scripted PvE if you can just pay money to get all the gear and then just faceroll everything. Some decent guilds will prevent that from happening but the rest of the world needs to deal with that crowd in random groups.
0) For simplicity and lack of confusion, I include bypassing time constraints for P2W.
1) That's what gear score is for, or at least, I would think so. Just as PvP usually (in other, pvp oriented games) matches people of equal capability, PvE should match people of roughly equal gear score.
2) It matters very little if other people faceroll everything, so long as the P2W aspect and rewards are properly adjusted. What matters more is if it's still fun and engaging in the end, and it does not destabilize the game. A common method is to only have P2W provide time benefits, like exp/gold/loot boosters.
- A similar argument is if there're people of different skill levels. So what if the person of higher skill level faceroll everthing, so long as the rewards are properly adjusted and it's still fun and engaging for all.
- Yes, I'm directly implying that P2W can be compared to Different skill levels.
kimonagiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I am talking about to most rewarding rewards being available to pay for cash the moment you hit level 60 not about the game being too easy. Loot drops are all bound on equip which means that even the highest tier in the game can be aquired by spending money on zen-converted in astral diamonds. At least in PvP you need to buy them by winning matches and getting glory. Those same persons that decked themselves with the most powerfull gear in the game can then come in PvP and unbalance it.
I am talking about to most rewarding rewards being available to pay for cash the moment you hit level 60 not about the game being too easy. Loot drops are all bound on equip which means that even the highest tier in the game can be aquired by spending money on zen-converted in astral diamonds. At least in PvP you need to buy them by winning matches and getting glory. Those same persons that decked themselves with the most powerfull gear in the game can then come in PvP and unbalance it.
Which is why I specifically said "P2W isn't a problem for anything but PvP." There is a solution to that anyway: Have PvP done in equalized gear. Of course, that would mean a lack of PvP progression save for PvP ranks, but I think we can agree it's better than the alternative. (alternative meaning the current P2W status quo)
cryptic isn't PW..... when champions was in beta the crafting was extreamly exploitable....... people we making gear that was far better than anything u could get from the games dungeons. lets not forget CO also had immense power struggles so almost every power hadto be nerfed. Fact is cryptic will bring down the exploiters no issue. they have no problem giving IP bans
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startuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 49
cryptic isn't PW..... when champions was in beta the crafting was extreamly exploitable....... people we making gear that was far better than anything u could get from the games dungeons. lets not forget CO also had immense power struggles so almost every power hadto be nerfed. Fact is cryptic will bring down the exploiters no issue. they have no problem giving IP bans
This . I'd bet they can trace anything in game via some simple database queries, and I think its best to let Cryptic do their job as they can analyse the data far better than anyone else here.
RMT is a common issue of most MMO. I doubt that you can find a clean MMO game without gold farmers/RMT in both f2p and p2p.
The problem with f2p games is it's easier for RMT business: got banned => np, just create a new account with a new email and g2g.
Personally, I think the pros of f2p is that you don't have to worry about subscription and can play whenever you want. You can purchase on their In-game market if you want to (some case you "have to" I admit) but it's more or less well money spent than when you do a monthly subscription. With p2p, you need to make sure that your money is worth it. Some people don't have a lot of time to play (working for example), compare to a no-lifer 24/7, well, pay the same amount but not able to play that much - it's kind of limit of choice.
However, with p2p, your voice will be heard (not always though), you get better customer support 'cause you pay for it. Well f2p, not so sure, but I guess the support will not be as good as a p2p, even though I think Cryptic's support/response rate is still better than a lot of other f2p MMO. Patching takes a lot of time I know, but if you work at a software company (I do), you will see that when an issue happen, it has to go through a process before you can fix it. Not just like, ok, some body report it, I'll fix it right away - it doesn't work like that for sure; unless it's major or high priority.
My post probably won't solve or answer anything but just to make a point: you choose to play this game, you may have to learn to roll with it, report if you found a bug/exploit... it might be fixed; but complaining won't help (believe me I tried). In the end, it's a f2p, you have a choice to not play if you don't like it anymore or play again when you feel like it. You don't have to worry about subscription. For ppl who bought "founder pack", well, you decided to pay for it to have fun, you got it.
P2P will make you feel more secure, beside that, it's not that much better than a F2P, players are one of the main causes for a game to be fun to play.
There is one MMO where they did a clever thing.
They started as F2P but after some time they launched a subscription server where you pay you fee each month and play. this server excludes any possibility of other RL money input.
Yes, they had to rebalance and reintroduce some of the irl money economics into the game as in-game money solutions.
But it is doable without any problems imho.
Just substitute all ZEN input with AD, tweak the price, and we are good to go. Well it is not that easy as it sounds but as I said, it is doable.
They can also introduce some kind of other substitution to ZEN with is possible to earn in-game. Or just make items for ZEN drop in game.
(i.e. make nightmare keys drop or be purchasable for AD or any other implemented currency)
Such actions would bring up people who admire subscription based model.
They can also leave some F2P features which don't touch anything besides cosmetics.
However, with p2p, your voice will be heard (not always though), you get better customer support 'cause you pay for it. Well f2p, not so sure, but I guess the support will not be as good as a p2p, even though I think Cryptic's support/response rate is still better than a lot of other f2p MMO.
in my experience CRYPTIC support>Blizzard support
I have hard times talking to blizz support, while i had excellent comunication experience with cryptic guys. It took a little longer for cryps to answer but in a long run it saved me more time that talking 4 times to blizz support to get what i need.
There is one MMO where they did a clever thing.
They started as F2P but after some time they launched a subscription server where you pay you fee each month and play. this server excludes any possibility of other RL money input.
Yes, they had to rebalance and reintroduce some of the irl money economics into the game as in-game money solutions.
But it is doable without any problems imho.
Just substitute all ZEN input with AD, tweak the price, and we are good to go. Well it is not that easy as it sounds but as I said, it is doable.
They can also introduce some kind of other substitution to ZEN with is possible to earn in-game. Or just make items for ZEN drop in game.
(i.e. make nightmare keys drop or be purchasable for AD or any other implemented currency)
Such actions would bring up people who admire subscription based model.
They can also leave some F2P features which don't touch anything besides cosmetics.
I kind of agree at some points. This game is still Open-beta from what I know, meaning there can be a lot of changes after release. Let's hope they take your idea into account. Not sure it will be like what you hope for, but might a better change will be in the future..
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ryzzhanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
ya know i see a LOT of you talking trash about how HAMSTER f2p games are... here's an idea. get off your fat lazy *** and go develop a game and see how it compares financially to f2p games on the market today seeing as most of you act like you know better. it wont last long, just like your overinflated egos. subscription games is a dying breed. nothing anyone can do about it. the market is changing. so as a company. either you adapt... or you die a slow horrible death.
All f2p wins are games that are HAMSTER from the start, or games that are now yesterday's dinner. The newest, quality games are always going to be subscription.
Need some evidence or you're just making stuff up.
Rift is an amazing game, IMHO, and now it is going F2P. NWO is a new, quality game that is F2P. PS2 is a new, quality MMO. In fact, I can't think of very many new MMOs that are subscription only any more. Even WoW has a free to level 20 option.
0
pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
cryptic isn't PW..... when champions was in beta the crafting was extreamly exploitable....... people we making gear that was far better than anything u could get from the games dungeons. lets not forget CO also had immense power struggles so almost every power hadto be nerfed. Fact is cryptic will bring down the exploiters no issue. they have no problem giving IP bans
Are you saying that cryptic isn't Perfect World? In some ways that's true but Cryptic are an entirely and wholly owned subsidiary of PW. The fact that they remain in their cosy Los Gatos offices and that Emmett remains the CEO does nothing to detract from the fact that they are all PW staff. So in another sense cryptic is exactly PW. PW pay the wages.
Seems to me that the best group to adventure with for end game material is, 2 cleric's(DC), 2 control wizards(CW), and a rouge(TR). The great weapon fighter(GWF) and guardian fighter(GF) are completely useless and are getting booted from queue's because of there uselessness and then you can't even join a game because of the queue system ( you join group and remain in town unable to leave party or join them in dungeon until you relog ). Rouges out dps anyone if there spec'd right and have the best movement speed to avoid aoe's along with ranged attack's. CW's just push mob's off of ledges, and the DC's lays down two circle of protection's and makes the group almost invunerable. GWF can't escape most aoe's with his dash or catch up to other player's on pvp because of the lack of stanima there for never being able to get any damage in and not doing enough even if he gets lucky and catches one off gaurd. GF's can't hold agro. even there level 15 cleric companion pull's agro over them. I realize im not one of the developer's and don't have an idea on the big picture of the game, but why even put these classes in if they cannot be used in end game material? I personly think that double divine circles and pushing mobs off the ledge is a HUGE exploit and must be fixed. What happen to fighting the monsters?
just one last question, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO BALANCE THE CLASSES OUT?! PLEASE GIVE US AN ETA OR ATLEAST SAY THIS IS HOW WE INTENDED IT SO WE CAN ALL MAKE CW'S, DC'S, AND TR'S??!!
So this is how I view PVE game play, the GF is a tank. the meaning of tank is he gets the aggression of mobs making them attack him not the rest of the party. how do I purpose he does this? by taunting and pulling the monsters towards him making the monsters have to get through him to get to the rest. The CW keeping true to there name they need to control mobs not by pushing them off the ledge all the time, but buy pulling the mobs together and making them unable to attack by knocking them to prone or confusing them or holding them in stasis. DC well it's obvious there the healer they mend wounds, but why does heal pull so much agro and when I use a healing potion the mob's don't seem to notice? in short why do healers pull so much agro? GWF's they are obviously damage dealers that should be there roll. Don't try and make them tanky without a shield. gwf's attack too slow, seem non mobile in battle situations and lack in dps. TR's this class does do good damage and are mobile in battle so they fill the roll of damage dealer pretty well. Now for the boss's what's with all these add's? The add just keep coming too on some bosses. how I see it we should kill off the add's then fight the boss. Why? Everyone wants to fight the boss and not the things we killed hundreds of to get there. I'm trying to keep it short and haven't even been able to scratch the surface of the non-balanced issues in PVE.
Now on to PVP, you ran into problems here when putting this into the game using the same spec's as your PVE and by trying to balance the PVP content. You nerf'd your PVE and PVP playablility by trying to sneak this in there. I have never seen so many people rage over something it's really funny to me.
P.S The only reason I post this is because I love this game's concept and it's playablity. The art is amazing in this game (everything from the terrain, monster's, and the armour although a bit lacking).
QFT. One of the best MMO's ever. I just could not justify keeping open subs on that, wow and star wars online. Something had to give.
(incidentally I still pay a sub for SWTOR and I've not logged in for about 5 months, that says something about how I value a game and the rewards it gives for paying for it )
Keep your fingers crossed it will look better down the road.
To avoid all of the above you mentioned, I solo and keep to myself, lets me enjoy the game.
I do the same but I still can't help being appalled by the f2p model they chose, they could have made it much more resonable and would probably have made more money that way.
Personally I still think the best model is b2p (buy to play) - you buy the game and then play for free with a shop that is 100% optional (that is the Guild Wars model and has proved to be very viable).
Depending on how Rifts f2p model is I might give that one another try.
Neverwinter Online Open Beta is an ongoing success
yea i will for sure be playing rift when it goes free. I couldnt justify paying a sub for it. Final fantasy 14 will be the last mmo i pay a sub for, if it is even decent.
0
lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
NWO is a new, quality game that is F2P. PS2 is a new, quality MMO. In fact, I can't think of very many new MMOs that are subscription only any more. Even WoW has a free to level 20 option.
You think p2w is quality? You must live in a vacuum, and never played a decent game in your life.
The games that are going f2p are old games, we're bored with them. That's why despite being of quality once, they are now going into the f2p bin.
The new MMORPGs we're waiting on (coming out this year) will be sub games as well, though gonna guess nobody has told you about them.
Comments
We might not be on the same page here, did you just call yourself an *******?
exactly.
cant polish a HAMSTER and call it gold.
Expected no less from the failures at Cryptic/PWE tbh.
All we can do is enjoy the ride and when the ride isn't favorable we can figure out ways to make it enjoyable. Some times it takes the form nuking the of AH with cheap epics.
Subscription games aren't better. You think people behave better because they pay $15 a month? Go do a few pick-up raid/dungeon/pve groups in World of Warcraft and lemme know how that goes for you.
P2W isn't a problem for anything but PvP. In fact, P2W is precisely what makes the Zen/AD exchange work.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Might be so if you are a PvPer mostly. Same concern exists for the PvE crowd, whats the point of scripted PvE if you can just pay money to get all the gear and then just faceroll everything. Some decent guilds will prevent that from happening but the rest of the world needs to deal with that crowd in random groups.
1) That's what gear score is for, or at least, I would think so. Just as PvP usually (in other, pvp oriented games) matches people of equal capability, PvE should match people of roughly equal gear score.
2) It matters very little if other people faceroll everything, so long as the P2W aspect and rewards are properly adjusted. What matters more is if it's still fun and engaging in the end, and it does not destabilize the game. A common method is to only have P2W provide time benefits, like exp/gold/loot boosters.
- A similar argument is if there're people of different skill levels. So what if the person of higher skill level faceroll everthing, so long as the rewards are properly adjusted and it's still fun and engaging for all.
- Yes, I'm directly implying that P2W can be compared to Different skill levels.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This
The problem with f2p games is it's easier for RMT business: got banned => np, just create a new account with a new email and g2g.
Personally, I think the pros of f2p is that you don't have to worry about subscription and can play whenever you want. You can purchase on their In-game market if you want to (some case you "have to" I admit) but it's more or less well money spent than when you do a monthly subscription. With p2p, you need to make sure that your money is worth it. Some people don't have a lot of time to play (working for example), compare to a no-lifer 24/7, well, pay the same amount but not able to play that much - it's kind of limit of choice.
However, with p2p, your voice will be heard (not always though), you get better customer support 'cause you pay for it. Well f2p, not so sure, but I guess the support will not be as good as a p2p, even though I think Cryptic's support/response rate is still better than a lot of other f2p MMO. Patching takes a lot of time I know, but if you work at a software company (I do), you will see that when an issue happen, it has to go through a process before you can fix it. Not just like, ok, some body report it, I'll fix it right away - it doesn't work like that for sure; unless it's major or high priority.
My post probably won't solve or answer anything but just to make a point: you choose to play this game, you may have to learn to roll with it, report if you found a bug/exploit... it might be fixed; but complaining won't help (believe me I tried). In the end, it's a f2p, you have a choice to not play if you don't like it anymore or play again when you feel like it. You don't have to worry about subscription. For ppl who bought "founder pack", well, you decided to pay for it to have fun, you got it.
P2P will make you feel more secure, beside that, it's not that much better than a F2P, players are one of the main causes for a game to be fun to play.
They started as F2P but after some time they launched a subscription server where you pay you fee each month and play. this server excludes any possibility of other RL money input.
Yes, they had to rebalance and reintroduce some of the irl money economics into the game as in-game money solutions.
But it is doable without any problems imho.
Just substitute all ZEN input with AD, tweak the price, and we are good to go. Well it is not that easy as it sounds but as I said, it is doable.
They can also introduce some kind of other substitution to ZEN with is possible to earn in-game. Or just make items for ZEN drop in game.
(i.e. make nightmare keys drop or be purchasable for AD or any other implemented currency)
Such actions would bring up people who admire subscription based model.
They can also leave some F2P features which don't touch anything besides cosmetics.
in my experience CRYPTIC support>Blizzard support
I have hard times talking to blizz support, while i had excellent comunication experience with cryptic guys. It took a little longer for cryps to answer but in a long run it saved me more time that talking 4 times to blizz support to get what i need.
I kind of agree at some points. This game is still Open-beta from what I know, meaning there can be a lot of changes after release. Let's hope they take your idea into account. Not sure it will be like what you hope for, but might a better change will be in the future..
Need some evidence or you're just making stuff up.
Rift is an amazing game, IMHO, and now it is going F2P. NWO is a new, quality game that is F2P. PS2 is a new, quality MMO. In fact, I can't think of very many new MMOs that are subscription only any more. Even WoW has a free to level 20 option.
Are you saying that cryptic isn't Perfect World? In some ways that's true but Cryptic are an entirely and wholly owned subsidiary of PW. The fact that they remain in their cosy Los Gatos offices and that Emmett remains the CEO does nothing to detract from the fact that they are all PW staff. So in another sense cryptic is exactly PW. PW pay the wages.
just one last question, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO BALANCE THE CLASSES OUT?! PLEASE GIVE US AN ETA OR ATLEAST SAY THIS IS HOW WE INTENDED IT SO WE CAN ALL MAKE CW'S, DC'S, AND TR'S??!!
So this is how I view PVE game play, the GF is a tank. the meaning of tank is he gets the aggression of mobs making them attack him not the rest of the party. how do I purpose he does this? by taunting and pulling the monsters towards him making the monsters have to get through him to get to the rest. The CW keeping true to there name they need to control mobs not by pushing them off the ledge all the time, but buy pulling the mobs together and making them unable to attack by knocking them to prone or confusing them or holding them in stasis. DC well it's obvious there the healer they mend wounds, but why does heal pull so much agro and when I use a healing potion the mob's don't seem to notice? in short why do healers pull so much agro? GWF's they are obviously damage dealers that should be there roll. Don't try and make them tanky without a shield. gwf's attack too slow, seem non mobile in battle situations and lack in dps. TR's this class does do good damage and are mobile in battle so they fill the roll of damage dealer pretty well. Now for the boss's what's with all these add's? The add just keep coming too on some bosses. how I see it we should kill off the add's then fight the boss. Why? Everyone wants to fight the boss and not the things we killed hundreds of to get there. I'm trying to keep it short and haven't even been able to scratch the surface of the non-balanced issues in PVE.
Now on to PVP, you ran into problems here when putting this into the game using the same spec's as your PVE and by trying to balance the PVP content. You nerf'd your PVE and PVP playablility by trying to sneak this in there. I have never seen so many people rage over something it's really funny to me.
P.S The only reason I post this is because I love this game's concept and it's playablity. The art is amazing in this game (everything from the terrain, monster's, and the armour although a bit lacking).
Someone needs to make a great MMO where the Sub fee is 50 dollars a month. Get out of my MMOs scrubs!
QFT. One of the best MMO's ever. I just could not justify keeping open subs on that, wow and star wars online. Something had to give.
(incidentally I still pay a sub for SWTOR and I've not logged in for about 5 months, that says something about how I value a game and the rewards it gives for paying for it )
Personally I still think the best model is b2p (buy to play) - you buy the game and then play for free with a shop that is 100% optional (that is the Guild Wars model and has proved to be very viable).
Depending on how Rifts f2p model is I might give that one another try.
You think p2w is quality? You must live in a vacuum, and never played a decent game in your life.
The games that are going f2p are old games, we're bored with them. That's why despite being of quality once, they are now going into the f2p bin.
The new MMORPGs we're waiting on (coming out this year) will be sub games as well, though gonna guess nobody has told you about them.