It's madness to think a company with non-existent support just has a dozen or several dozen people around to track exploits that they didn't even have the manpower to hotfix in the first place.
It's one thing to be optimistic but jeez.
I spend all day reading every thread and letting people know this is BETA.
It's madness to think a company with non-existent support just has a dozen or several dozen people around to track exploits that they didn't even have the manpower to hotfix in the first place.
It's one thing to be optimistic but jeez.
Yeah all bugs can just be hot-fixed with the press of a button right? No need to go through code to find the bug, then do internal testing to make sure its not breaking anything else. Nah thats all useless.
Hate to break it to you, but this game is live. The devs have personally said no character wipes after open beta and betas always end with a character wipe. Stating the game is in open beta is just an excuse that players and devs use to justify all the problems with the game. Once lockboxes and other sources of spending zen was added like fusing enhancements, the game was live. If people thought this was open beta and their characters would be wiped, then they wouldn't have spent a ton of money on it.
We are entitled due to the time and money spent on our characters. However that entitlement is less than some people think. We are entitled to a functioning game or it is functioning ASAP and our characters, quest progress, and equipment will still be there when we log on every time. We are also entitled to exploits and bugs being fixed as soon as the devs can fix them and not when the devs get around to it. Finally, we are entitled to the MMO constantly being updated with new content for us to play. We are not entitled to the game being character wiped because of some problem that can be fixed through saner methods.
No technically this game is still in beta, it has way too much bugs now, it is only live when the devs officially announce it is.
There is nothing wrong with an mmo doing a wipe during beta, it is often needed because of all the bugs found during the beta like we are seeing here. Stop thinking about yourself only and think about the long term sucess of the game, it will be better if all these exploiters lose everything, you don't want to play an mmo with those kind of people anyway, and many exploiters will move to another game they can exploit. Having to replay some content and levels won't kill you.
Stop QQing. Possibly in a month all the major bugs will be patched, the exploiters have nothing to exploit and the next tier of dungeons will be released. This will cause the current tiers of gear to become worthless, the new tiers will be refreshing to grind for and the economy re-stabilizes. It's good that the exploiters are doing it now, rather than later down the road when we have invested countless hours into the game rather than a day or two.
If you don't like it now, go create your own MMO, release it and see if people don't try to exploit the hell out of your game and see how long it takes for you to fix the issues before everyone tramples all over it.
Nessa@gwas - 10,500 Gearscore Control Wizard on Dragon Shard.
4/4 Castle Never legit. 4/4 Shadow Weaver set. 1/2 Ancient Court Magister.
I think we need to hear from the Devs. If there are no consequences to exploiting, they they are tacitly approving it. If exploiters are allowed to keep there ill gotten gains, the Devs are actually encouraging exploiting in the future.
I am a Lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character
I think we need to hear from the Devs. If there are no consequences to exploiting, they they are tacitly approving it. If exploiters are allowed to keep there ill gotten gains, the Devs are actually encouraging exploiting in the future.
I think we need to just wait for tomorrow and see what happens
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Imho, so many players have used and abused so many ways to level and cheat their way through to max level and farm millions of AD via exploits and in my eyes, these people have already quit the game.
There should be a full game wipe of all characters once all the issues are fixed and rectified.
Stop QQing. Possibly in a month all the major bugs will be patched, the exploiters have nothing to exploit and the next tier of dungeons will be released. This will cause the current tiers of gear to become worthless, the new tiers will be refreshing to grind for and the economy re-stabilizes. It's good that the exploiters are doing it now, rather than later down the road when we have invested countless hours into the game rather than a day or two.
If you don't like it now, go create your own MMO, release it and see if people don't try to exploit the hell out of your game and see how long it takes for you to fix the issues before everyone tramples all over it.
you have no idea of the garbage Cryptic/PWE spew out do you?
When you come back to earth from lala land drop me a line.
I understand the sentiment for wanting a fresh start and a wipe, but it's only a bandaid fix at best. A new round of bugs and exploits will come, whether from a patch or new content, and straight back to a wrecked economy we go. Maybe eventually gamers will get tired of pseudo economies and development will go back to focusing on deeper and more complex and engaging game design.
i agreed with start fresh/server wipe i think what the dev should do is fix the bugs and glitches, rebalance classes and then release new content along with ranger and warlock classes after full server wipe.
theres too many exploit, bugs and glitches
i didn't pay for this game but i felt bad for people that actually spend money on this game and also those people that play fair..
there is no such thing as play for fun..when you think about it
its like you see someone rob a bank and get away with loads of money, while the other people have to work their *** off..at least those hotn people paid with money yet those exploiters get rich by abusing simple things
I understand the sentiment for wanting a fresh start and a wipe, but it's only a bandaid fix at best. A new round of bugs and exploits will come, whether from a patch or new content, and straight back to a wrecked economy we go. Maybe eventually gamers will get tired of pseudo economies and development will go back to focusing on deeper and more complex and engaging game design.
but im pretty sure the devs should've learn from their previous mistake and do their best to not make the same mistake twice
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
I've always been advocating for alternate solutions like just making new shards. We probably need new ones anyway, for people who prefer specific limitations like 100% no p2W (aka only cosmetics can be bought and no zen/ad trade).
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
Wrong and insulting, I have not exploited and your idea for a wipe would be a massive breach of faith on pwe's part for everyone that only started playing after reading that there would be no server wipes. The no wipes portion of the open beta is to draw enough of a crowd to the beta to test server load and to get enough people that are finding exploits and bugs. No wipe is the only way you get those people. Going back on their word... might as well shut down the servers.
but im pretty sure the devs should've learn from their previous mistake and do their best to not make the same mistake twice
Not really something you can blame the devs for though. Bugs will happen, and you cannot realistically expect otherwise. I feel that it is also unrealistic to expect a functioning economy in an unstable environment. It's only a huge issue because it's an economy based game and exploiting bugs takes away from the devs' ability to exploit the playerbase.
It's the same cycle over and over again. If "insanity means doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result", then having player run economies in a game is beyond the pale.
brolleunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
The exploitations have become out of hand, and nothing short of a wipe will solve the issues of the economy being flooded, and any items gained through poor or unfair means. Reimburse players their zenny, and give them a little something extra for the inconvenience (to show you value your customer) of having to reset the player base.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
Ouch! I promise you I haven't exploited anything and I don't want a wipe.
I put a lot of work into building up my characters along with my friends. Honestly some of them might just hang up their coats if they had to start over yet again.
Personally I just want the issues resolved. The exploiters reprimanded. And for the game to go on.
Let's keep the tone down though. No need to make such harsh and generalized claims. It's nothing outright rule breaking but it could easily get overly heated overly fast if people make such accusations.
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
That's exactly right. Not wiping now while we have the chance is just dumb.
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
Exactly how it seems to me. Either that or they are just completely selfish and care only about themselves rather then the games stability. Its very self destructive so makes no sense, if this game can't get enough new people to stay because of all the exploits then it dies and they lose anyway.
The exploitations have become out of hand, and nothing short of a wipe will solve the issues of the economy being flooded, and any items gained through poor or unfair means. Reimburse players their zenny, and give them a little something extra for the inconvenience (to show you value your customer) of having to reset the player base.
Time and new content will fix it too. Gauntletgrym or however it's spelled is coming at some point, there will be new modules ext. All that's needed to fix the economy is to squash bugs hard and to give development time. I've seen it in multiple games where someone comes up with an exploit that introduces lots of money into the economy and messes with prices. Each and every time it happens the games economy is back to normal 30-60 days after the bug fix. Economy fluctuations from exploits are part of playing an mmo compared to single player games like nwn.
Just keep track of whatever founder packs people bought, how much Zen they purchased, how much AD they had, if possible, and go frickin' nuts. Wipe as much as you like. Long as the tainted goods aren't a concern anymore.
If people *****-fit and leave, they weren't gonna hang around long anyway.
Just keep track of whatever founder packs people bought, how much Zen they purchased, how much AD they had, if possible, and go frickin' nuts. Wipe as much as you like. Long as the tainted goods aren't a concern anymore.
If people *****-fit and leave, they weren't gonna hang around long anyway.
I'm fine with a character wipe. Just give me back all of the AD that I've purchased and transferred to this game first. I agree that nothing short of a wipe will fix this imbalance, but I highly doubt Cryptic will do it. They are too scared to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the clueless people who aren't even aware of this economy exploit.
Exactly how it seems to me. Either that or they are just completely selfish and care only about themselves rather then the games stability. Its very self destructive so makes no sense, if this game can't get enough new people to stay because of all the exploits then it dies and they lose anyway.
Wrong and insulting, I have not exploited and your idea for a wipe would be a massive breach of faith on pwe's part for everyone that only started playing after reading that there would be no server wipes. The no wipes portion of the open beta is to draw enough of a crowd to the beta to test server load and to get enough people that are finding exploits and bugs. No wipe is the only way you get those people. Going back on their word... might as well shut down the servers.
PWE couldn't happen to have foresaw the magnitude of the exploiting going on now, only other game that comes to mind that is bad like this is D3. Game dies soon anyway if the economy is ruined by this exploits.
Time and new content will fix it too. Gauntletgrym or however it's spelled is coming at some point, there will be new modules ext. All that's needed to fix the economy is to squash bugs hard and to give development time. I've seen it in multiple games where someone comes up with an exploit that introduces lots of money into the economy and messes with prices. Each and every time it happens the games economy is back to normal 30-60 days after the bug fix. Economy fluctuations from exploits are part of playing an mmo compared to single player games like nwn.
Time will not fix this issue like normal economies would be.
The equilibrium of time vs reward and that economy being built and panning out over time is easily determined by how fast you can gain currency and how they design its exit stratergy from the game.
The issue here is, people have found ways to earn millions upon millions of AD which the economy will simply not recover from in less then a week, a month or even 3 months.
You can't implement a AD sink to remove it because the people like ourselves who have not abused exploits will be not able to partake in it and the people who did only become richer via itemiziation in what ever form they decide to reward people for opting thier AD out of the game, regardless of the fact that they exploited.
The fact is, at this point in time, the poeple who have that millions of AD will be setting the current prices of itemization now and in to the future. So no equilibrium will be found, just a massive amount of ripping people a new one.
PWE couldn't happen to have foresaw the magnitude of the exploiting going on now, only other game that comes to mind that is bad like this is D3. Game dies soon anyway if the economy is ruined by this exploits.
D3 had exploits that were fixed much slower, the exploits are patched tommorrow from my understanding. That said that is the first reasonable thing I've read from a pro-wipe forumite.
Yes things need to be fixed or the game dies, however the cure that is being proposed is deciding between the hanging and the electric chair. Both are death. The real answer imo is to fix the exploits, ban the worst of the exploiters (not temp bans but permanent bans, yes it won't get everyone but a hard crackdown would set precident) then let time and new content fix the rest of the problems. I really have seen time fix game economies in quite a few games before.
Ouch! I promise you I haven't exploited anything and I don't want a wipe.
I put a lot of work into building up my characters along with my friends. Honestly some of them might just hang up their coats if they had to start over yet again.
Personally I just want the issues resolved. The exploiters reprimanded. And for the game to go on.
Let's keep the tone down though. No need to make such harsh and generalized claims. It's nothing outright rule breaking but it could easily get overly heated overly fast if people make such accusations.
Just how does the game go on with these exploiters already having ruined the economy?
I have just been playing a few days and browsing the forum each day and all I see now are thread after thread, post after post showing and complaining of all these exploits, 1 shotting bosses and such. Its very discouraging to see a game still starting out to see its economy ruined and I don't see how reprimanding exploiters will fix that. especially discouraging for new players to see the forums covered with this. They launder their stuff through mule accounts and other tricks, it will be hard to distinguish what was legit trades and what was just someone stashing ill gotten gains. A whole lot of that stuff will still be out there without a wipe.
I'm not really sure if I even want to play this game or recommend it to any friends yet, its a really bad start if this goes forward in this state. Sorry if some legit players have to lose their work but it seems like a small sacrifice to me to make sure this games economy works.
Comments
It's one thing to be optimistic but jeez.
Yeah all bugs can just be hot-fixed with the press of a button right? No need to go through code to find the bug, then do internal testing to make sure its not breaking anything else. Nah thats all useless.
No technically this game is still in beta, it has way too much bugs now, it is only live when the devs officially announce it is.
There is nothing wrong with an mmo doing a wipe during beta, it is often needed because of all the bugs found during the beta like we are seeing here. Stop thinking about yourself only and think about the long term sucess of the game, it will be better if all these exploiters lose everything, you don't want to play an mmo with those kind of people anyway, and many exploiters will move to another game they can exploit. Having to replay some content and levels won't kill you.
If you don't like it now, go create your own MMO, release it and see if people don't try to exploit the hell out of your game and see how long it takes for you to fix the issues before everyone tramples all over it.
4/4 Castle Never legit. 4/4 Shadow Weaver set. 1/2 Ancient Court Magister.
I think we need to just wait for tomorrow and see what happens
what are you complaining for? It's 'open beta' -_-
you have no idea of the garbage Cryptic/PWE spew out do you?
When you come back to earth from lala land drop me a line.
Well you're here aren't you? Must be good since it has kept you around for so long.
4/4 Castle Never legit. 4/4 Shadow Weaver set. 1/2 Ancient Court Magister.
theres too many exploit, bugs and glitches
i didn't pay for this game but i felt bad for people that actually spend money on this game and also those people that play fair..
there is no such thing as play for fun..when you think about it
its like you see someone rob a bank and get away with loads of money, while the other people have to work their *** off..at least those hotn people paid with money yet those exploiters get rich by abusing simple things
but im pretty sure the devs should've learn from their previous mistake and do their best to not make the same mistake twice
It would be three or four times if it happens again. This is the second bugged set bonus to get fixed
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
I've always been advocating for alternate solutions like just making new shards. We probably need new ones anyway, for people who prefer specific limitations like 100% no p2W (aka only cosmetics can be bought and no zen/ad trade).
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Not really something you can blame the devs for though. Bugs will happen, and you cannot realistically expect otherwise. I feel that it is also unrealistic to expect a functioning economy in an unstable environment. It's only a huge issue because it's an economy based game and exploiting bugs takes away from the devs' ability to exploit the playerbase.
It's the same cycle over and over again. If "insanity means doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result", then having player run economies in a game is beyond the pale.
Ouch! I promise you I haven't exploited anything and I don't want a wipe.
I put a lot of work into building up my characters along with my friends. Honestly some of them might just hang up their coats if they had to start over yet again.
Personally I just want the issues resolved. The exploiters reprimanded. And for the game to go on.
Let's keep the tone down though. No need to make such harsh and generalized claims. It's nothing outright rule breaking but it could easily get overly heated overly fast if people make such accusations.
That's exactly right. Not wiping now while we have the chance is just dumb.
Exactly how it seems to me. Either that or they are just completely selfish and care only about themselves rather then the games stability. Its very self destructive so makes no sense, if this game can't get enough new people to stay because of all the exploits then it dies and they lose anyway.
If people *****-fit and leave, they weren't gonna hang around long anyway.
What better happen when Paladins are introduced someday...A glorious union it shall be.
I'm fine with a character wipe. Just give me back all of the AD that I've purchased and transferred to this game first. I agree that nothing short of a wipe will fix this imbalance, but I highly doubt Cryptic will do it. They are too scared to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the clueless people who aren't even aware of this economy exploit.
Exactly.
/10char
PWE couldn't happen to have foresaw the magnitude of the exploiting going on now, only other game that comes to mind that is bad like this is D3. Game dies soon anyway if the economy is ruined by this exploits.
Time will not fix this issue like normal economies would be.
The equilibrium of time vs reward and that economy being built and panning out over time is easily determined by how fast you can gain currency and how they design its exit stratergy from the game.
The issue here is, people have found ways to earn millions upon millions of AD which the economy will simply not recover from in less then a week, a month or even 3 months.
You can't implement a AD sink to remove it because the people like ourselves who have not abused exploits will be not able to partake in it and the people who did only become richer via itemiziation in what ever form they decide to reward people for opting thier AD out of the game, regardless of the fact that they exploited.
The fact is, at this point in time, the poeple who have that millions of AD will be setting the current prices of itemization now and in to the future. So no equilibrium will be found, just a massive amount of ripping people a new one.
Yes things need to be fixed or the game dies, however the cure that is being proposed is deciding between the hanging and the electric chair. Both are death. The real answer imo is to fix the exploits, ban the worst of the exploiters (not temp bans but permanent bans, yes it won't get everyone but a hard crackdown would set precident) then let time and new content fix the rest of the problems. I really have seen time fix game economies in quite a few games before.
Just how does the game go on with these exploiters already having ruined the economy?
I have just been playing a few days and browsing the forum each day and all I see now are thread after thread, post after post showing and complaining of all these exploits, 1 shotting bosses and such. Its very discouraging to see a game still starting out to see its economy ruined and I don't see how reprimanding exploiters will fix that. especially discouraging for new players to see the forums covered with this. They launder their stuff through mule accounts and other tricks, it will be hard to distinguish what was legit trades and what was just someone stashing ill gotten gains. A whole lot of that stuff will still be out there without a wipe.
I'm not really sure if I even want to play this game or recommend it to any friends yet, its a really bad start if this goes forward in this state. Sorry if some legit players have to lose their work but it seems like a small sacrifice to me to make sure this games economy works.