A wipe can and will happen as it will happen at the end of the open Beta with packs AD & bought ZEN refunded (but refunded to neverwinter account only, not transferable to other accounts).
So it is not only possible but already planed.
Now whether they might want to do it now, is open. If I was PW I would let the people exploit and exploit and exploit and gather all those stuff to close the bugs , wipe again, and let people find more bug and exploit before the real opening of the game. That is what a BETA is for after all.
So yes, wipe us all.
It is not planned, they've said no more wipes many times. That's why people have argued the term "Open Beta" a bit. A wipe is definitely needed, but with PW's silence on the issue it doesn't seem likely, and it's certainly not already planned
A wipe can and will happen as it will happen at the end of the open Beta with packs AD & bought ZEN refunded (but refunded to neverwinter account only, not transferable to other accounts).
So it is not only possible but already planed.
Guess you never read them saying there will be no character wipes once open beta starts.
The fact that I am still having to debate with people about wanting a functioning AH in an MMO is beyond ridiculous. We should be able to take something like that for granted.
Most people besides you like to sell all their loot they earn for a decent profit in any mmo. I don't know about how endgame is here yet, but on other Cryptic games like STO with the same loot system, everyone needs everything unless their inventory is full or its an item that doesn't vendor or sell for exchange very much. Since everyone needs everything, you have missed out on lots of stuff you need so you also need to need everything just to make enough money to buy loot you missed out on. Even in most fleets im in work like that so nobody has to argue over who gets what, let the RNG decide that. I rather everyone do it that way in this game also, I wish their wasn't a need window, just everyone rolls on every item automatically, if you don't want it give it away or sell it later. Much faster too since you don't need to analyze each drop immediatley, just roll on it and worry about what it is afterwards.
Anyway if you do play like this as I'm sure many do, we need a working economy.
Most people don't ninja loot items they can't use. See what I did there? So this is your primary issue? Your ninja looting will be made less profitable? Goody.
Ok, so you participate in group content, and the exploiters don't affect you. So when you're running Castle Never and a really big upgrade drops for you, and a different class from you ninja's it to sell it, that doesn't affect you?
When you queue for PvP and your entire team is AFK, that doesn't affect you?
I think you need to think about what you're saying a bit more
Ninja looting sucks, but it's not an exploit. It's bad form, and disrespectful to the rest of the group, but it's not an exploit. If I'm party lead, it will also only happen once.
Exactly. Time to stop feeding the fantrolls. It doesn't matter what argument you put up to show how absolutely freakin wrong they are, they just make up a new argument.
This game is broke, wipe it.
Reads as: I don't have a valid point to make, so I'm going to flame people into seeing things my way.
I just like to point out, all of you guys that are stating "Oh why punish me when I didn't do anything" Because it effects the ENTIRE game, not just you. Mainly the economy is going to end up like D3 and be ruined.
Also - The game is in OPEN beta, not a finished project.
The game is FREE.
You are not entitled to ANYTHING. The game is free, the only people who are entitled to something are the people who bought zen or founder.
Neither are you entitled to anything. BTW, look <
Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, Founder. Guess what, I still don't think I'm entitled to anything except not being lumped into the exploiter base, and having my characters wiped at a whim.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Most people don't ninja loot items they can't use. See what I did there? So this is your primary issue? Your ninja looting will be made less profitable? Goody.
Ninja looting sucks, but it's not an exploit. It's bad form, and disrespectful to the rest of the group, but it's not an exploit. If I'm party lead, it will also only happen once.
Reads as: I don't have a valid point to make, so I'm going to flame people into seeing things my way.
Neither are you entitled to anything. BTW, look <
Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, Founder. Guess what, I still don't think I'm entitled to anything except not being lumped into the exploiter base, and having my characters wiped at a whim.
Ok, ninja looting was a bad example. However, what about the party leader being able to kick and removing your shot at winning loot in pve/getting credit in PvP. That I would consider an exploit, and as far as I know, wasn't fixed in this patch
good luck with the wipe I mean will it lead to people losing real life $? thats the problem with having a beta and selling stuff for $ at the same time, it kinda makes it harder to go with a wipe doesn't it? And I do feel for a lot of people who will get punished because some people exploited the hell out of bugs.
Here's where it's important to understand exactly how it works:
During beta, your purchases with Zen will be applied to your beta account and characters. These purchases are not permanent, and will only persist during beta.
After beta concludes, any Zen you spent during beta will be returned to your Neverwinter-specific Zen balance. Important note: Zen returned in this manner cannot be transferred to other games. It will only be usable in Neverwinter.
But really, scrolling down below :
Q: If I spend Zen during Open Beta, will I get it back when Neverwinter launches?
A: No, all Zen spent during Open Beta will be final purchases. It will not be returned or refunded after it is spent.
There is no way they can do a wipe and get away with not refunding the Zen, therefore I guess you are right : no wipe will be done for launch, and they might as well call this a "head start"...
And how do you keep the unfortunate innocent player who accidentally bought one of the green items from being caught in the crossfire?
So you're going to pay 3 or 4x the market value for an item? When I do browse the AH, I don't buy the first piece of gear I can use, I check prices, and try to find the best value I can. Oddly enough, it's why I didn't buy a Founder's Pack before the game even went into alpha/beta testing. I'm looking for bang for the buck, and buying sight unseen can end badly.
I am not accusing anyone here of anything, but am starting to get suspicious. Why are certain posters so against a server wipe unless they have lots of ill gotten gains to lose. There is simply no other way to be sure that all the exploited currency and items are found otherwise. It will take way too much time and will be next to impossible to sort all the legitimate trades from exploiters trading their loot to mule accounts.
You can't really hold it against an mmo for doing a wipe while game is still in beta, it is still in beta for a reason afterall, its not yet ready for live and to much bugs and exploits.
Anyone who even remotely tries to justify a reason for not wiping has simply been exploiting and wants to hold on to thier ill found wealth, thats about the end of it, because any normal level headed person will agree, at the current state the game is in, nothing short of a wipe will do, regardless of time spent playing and the vote count is growing slowly with 60% of the people still willing to play and spend RL money on Zen after a wipe.
...and finally, here is the ultimate QQ of the week: If you disagree with me, you're cheating. Yeah, move along folks, nothing to see here.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
good luck with the wipe I mean will it lead to people losing real life $? thats the problem with having a beta and selling stuff for $ at the same time, it kinda makes it harder to go with a wipe doesn't it? And I do feel for a lot of people who will get punished because some people exploited the hell out of bugs.
Don't you know: They don't have the staff to track down the exploiters and ban them, but they have the staff to track down every single AD/Zen transaction to refund them. It's funny how that works, isn't it.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
So you're going to pay 3 or 4x the market value for an item? When I do browse the AH, I don't buy the first piece of gear I can use, I check prices, and try to find the best value I can. Oddly enough, it's why I didn't buy a Founder's Pack before the game even went into alpha/beta testing. I'm looking for bang for the buck, and buying sight unseen can end badly.
Large assumption that it would be 3/4x the market value of the item. In fact, it's usually because it is undervalued that an unsuspecting player might have bought them. I'll use myself as an example. A few days ago, I bought a platesmith from AH for a mere 8000 AD, which was extremely competitive compared to the cost of white platesmithing personnel. It's only later that I found out about the exploit regarding the Doomguide mission. Should I be penalized with a full account ban?
Don't you know: They don't have the staff to track down the exploiters and ban them, but they have the staff to track down every single AD/Zen transaction to refund them. It's funny how that works, isn't it.
They don't have to. They only need to track down every Zen import into Neverwinter, along with every founder pack. Which would be logged into database, and presumably 100% accurate without any false positives.
kseniya1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
if they wipe my **** I'll just leave... this is why I hate f2p games. They should just have subs... sub games are always better and you have to earn everything you get. Cash shop is literally the worst idea anyone has every implemented.. its ruining video games across the board, mmo's especially.
Large assumption that it would be 3/4x the market value of the item. In fact, it's usually because it is undervalued that an unsuspecting player might have bought them. I'll use myself as an example. A few days ago, I bought a platesmith from AH for a mere 8000 AD, which was extremely competitive compared to the cost of white platesmithing personnel. It's only later that I found out about the exploit regarding the Doomguide mission. Should I be penalized with a full account ban?
You don't think that 10k AD is too much for a green item? How about the more logical step, banning the exploiter and removing the exploited items from the game, and reimbursing any purchases? I know, it makes sense to do that, and it may entail some work, so the best solution is to just push the wipe button, right? So the next time new content bugs out and winds up being exploited, intentionally or not, we're going to have to wipe again? So really, why even bother playing, if it's going to be a possible wipe after any new content? It's far better to get the backend tools refined and working, and ban the exploiters.
You see, despite the OP's claim that I must be exploiting, I see that as the likely scenario: Well, that content broke the economy, we need another wipe so we can try again. On down the road, more content is going to bug out, that's the nature of adding content to the game; QA doesn't always catch everything, and updates can have unexpected side effects. As someone that wrote code in both NWN games, I can tell you, it happens, and it happens a lot. I have literally spent hours trying to figure out how a VFX fix broke my door closing scripts, or conversations.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
if they wipe my **** I'll just leave... this is why I hate f2p games. They should just have subs... sub games are always better and you have to earn everything you get. Cash shop is literally the worst idea anyone has every implemented.. its ruining video games across the board, mmo's especially.
I honestly think F2P could work well when done right, but alot of companies go for over inflated prices and the ability to buy your way to best in slot. I'd really like to see a MMO have a cash shop alot like League of Legends. You can buy some convenience, (double IP), but beyond that anything you can purchase is cosmetic.
They don't have to. They only need to track down every Zen import into Neverwinter, along with every founder pack. Which would be logged into database, and presumably 100% accurate without any false positives.
Seriously? You don't think it takes staff for that? That's a resource intensive thing, no matter that you think it's "easy" or something. If they have the staff to track every single transaction that brings Zen into the game, then they have the staff to track exploiters. Both require them to go account by account to verify yes or no.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
if they wipe my **** I'll just leave... this is why I hate f2p games. They should just have subs... sub games are always better and you have to earn everything you get. Cash shop is literally the worst idea anyone has every implemented.. its ruining video games across the board, mmo's especially.
basically this, free to play with a cash shop is destroying mmos even more. They were already hurting as is because no one has the money or wants to invest in one to make a good one. The only people who have the money to make a quality one is Blizzard and we all have our opinions about them.
Seriously? You don't think it takes staff for that? That's a resource intensive thing, no matter that you think it's "easy" or something. If they have the staff to track every single transaction that brings Zen into the game, then they have the staff to track exploiters. Both require them to go account by account to verify yes or no.
They did it at the end of closed beta, so logic would indicate they have a way to make that a pretty straightforward process. However rooting out all the laundered AD through dummy accounts from the like, and avoiding taking the AD of honest folk, it's just way more work than it's worth. They need to reset and acknowledge that they're going to stamp out problems like this MUCH more quickly from now on. They brought down the servers with minimal notice 2 Saturdays ago during primetime, but they give almost 12 hours notice, after almost a full week of these exploits running rampant? That gave people plenty of time to make this an even more complicated mess to fix without a wipe.
You don't think that 10k AD is too much for a green item? How about the more logical step, banning the exploiter and removing the exploited items from the game, and reimbursing any purchases? I know, it makes sense to do that, and it may entail some work, so the best solution is to just push the wipe button, right? So the next time new content bugs out and winds up being exploited, intentionally or not, we're going to have to wipe again? So really, why even bother playing, if it's going to be a possible wipe after any new content? It's far better to get the backend tools refined and working, and ban the exploiters.
You see, despite the OP's claim that I must be exploiting, I see that as the likely scenario: Well, that content broke the economy, we need another wipe so we can try again. On down the road, more content is going to bug out, that's the nature of adding content to the game; QA doesn't always catch everything, and updates can have unexpected side effects. As someone that wrote code in both NWN games, I can tell you, it happens, and it happens a lot. I have literally spent hours trying to figure out how a VFX fix broke my door closing scripts, or conversations.
1) Have you checked the price of platesmiths now? They're not an item dropped normally after all.
2) And what if I had resold that platesmith for a profit?
3) Now, if I had resold the platesmith for a profit, how can you tell the difference from me, and a dummy account of the exploiter used to keep his ill gotten gains?
They did it at the end of closed beta, so logic would indicate they have a way to make that a pretty straightforward process. However rooting out all the laundered AD through dummy accounts from the like, and avoiding taking the AD of honest folk, it's just way more work than it's worth. They need to reset and acknowledge that they're going to stamp out problems like this MUCH more quickly from now on. They brought down the servers with minimal notice 2 Saturdays ago during primetime, but they give almost 12 hours notice, after almost a full week of these exploits running rampant? That gave people plenty of time to make this an even more complicated mess to fix without a wipe.
It's a tree, essentially. Start with known exploiter; track trades/sales. If trades occur frequently with specific accounts, investigate those accounts. A one off purchase from the AH isn't likely to set off any flags at all, and even if it did set a flag, the initial investigation is going to show that it's a one off, and not participating, knowingly, in the exploit. Now, the logical step would be to roll back the exploiter account, and remove the transactions from the game. Reimburse as needed, and go on. Yes, it's a lot of work, but, if you want to assure your fanbase that you're looking out for their best interests, it's worth it in the long run. Since the OP in the Maintenance thread mentions doing this specifically, I think it's more of a stretch that they aren't going to do that.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
It's a tree, essentially. Start with known exploiter; track trades/sales. If trades occur frequently with specific accounts, investigate those accounts. A one off purchase from the AH isn't likely to set off any flags at all, and even if it did set a flag, the initial investigation is going to show that it's a one off, and not participating, knowingly, in the exploit. Now, the logical step would be to roll back the exploiter account, and remove the transactions from the game. Reimburse as needed, and go on. Yes, it's a lot of work, but, if you want to assure your fanbase that you're looking out for their best interests, it's worth it in the long run. Since the OP in the Maintenance thread mentions doing this specifically, I think it's more of a stretch that they aren't going to do that.
Eventually you might come into cases where it becomes questionable whether a person exploited or not, if the exploiter is smart. Unfortunately, not in a position to discuss further because it would involve detailing how to conduct exploits effectively. Not to mention, just because a person made multiple purchases, doesn't mean he's automatically guilty. For instance, if I had more AD, I certainly would've bought more platesmiths/master platesmiths/etc.
Eventually you might come into cases where it becomes questionable whether a person exploited or not, if the exploiter is smart. Unfortunately, not in a position to discuss further because it would involve detailing how to conduct exploits effectively. Not to mention, just because a person made multiple purchases, doesn't mean he's automatically guilty. For instance, if I had more AD, I certainly would've bought more platesmiths/master platesmiths/etc.
This. I think there's going to be alot of situations where it's not totally obvious, so unfortunately I think innocent people are going to get dragged in no matter what. It's not that it can't be sorted out with other means, it's just how insanely complicated they allowed this to get.
This. I think there's going to be alot of situations where it's not totally obvious, so unfortunately I think innocent people are going to get dragged in no matter what. It's not that it can't be sorted out with other means, it's just how insanely complicated they allowed this to get.
I'd be a fool to say it can't happen. It can, but I see it as vastly superior to just assuming everyone did it and wipe the whole server. I would hold this line even if I wound up being one of the innocent bystanders. Not a likely issue for me at this point, since I'm no where near endgame, and am not buying gear for it, don't have enough bag/bank space for the junk I do have, but even if I did get caught up, I'd submit a ticket and get it fixed. I'd rather do that than start over, and then later on, when the next wave starts, have to start over again because the playerbase decided that wiping was the only way to fix exploits.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
I'd be a fool to say it can't happen. It can, but I see it as vastly superior to just assuming everyone did it and wipe the whole server. I would hold this line even if I wound up being one of the innocent bystanders. Not a likely issue for me at this point, since I'm no where near endgame, and am not buying gear for it, don't have enough bag/bank space for the junk I do have, but even if I did get caught up, I'd submit a ticket and get it fixed. I'd rather do that than start over, and then later on, when the next wave starts, have to start over again because the playerbase decided that wiping was the only way to fix exploits.
Wiping the server doesn't mean that everyone is guilty, it only means that some individuals has sufficiently broken the system that it needs a hard reset. It's like forcefully evacuating people when a place gets too hazardous to live because some individuals decided that dumping toxic waste in an area is a good idea. Sometimes we just need a hard reset to set things right. And at this point, it's starting to seem likely that this is the case.
EDIT: note: I'm not for the reset myself. I'm only implying that something has to be done, and my proposal is still simply a new shard (or 3). Easiest solution, caters to everyone.
Everyone is affected by this. When the economy is ruined, everyone (who did not cheat) loses.
Blanket statements are bad. Blanket statements indicating that people that disagree with you are cheaters are worse. You're really going to say that, because I'm disinclined to starting over every time somebody finds and exploit and runs it into the ground that I must be taking advantage of the exploit? I think the reason you want to start over is that, being a founder, you felt like your 2million AD should have meant more than it did. So of course you want to start over, so you can attempt to manipulate the market with your RMT AD. Am I less accurate than your supposition?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Everyone is affected by this. When the economy is ruined, everyone (who did not cheat) loses.
Or at least, everyone who matters (aka those people who has paid money). Or at least, a good number of them, weighted by Zen inserted into the system, as it is likely each and every person who sold Zen for AD used the AH.
How long has the game been open Robert? I only ask cause I have been here about 2 weeks now(?). That isn't a lot to lose when the game is intended to be playable or months if not years. I on't know if the game warrants a wipe or not but if it does sooner is better than later in any cases.
Or at least, everyone who matters (aka those people who has paid money). Or at least, a good number of them, weighted by Zen inserted into the system, as it is likely each and every person who sold Zen for AD used the AH.
So free players don't matter? Not sarcasm, just the impression I get from your post, and one that I have seen espoused in this thread by the OP. The fact is, anyone not actively doing end game content isn't affected at this point. Can they be? If it's left alone, maybe. But, as I pointed out previously in this thread, I can get that gear w/out ever looking at the AH, by running the content where it was dropped in the first place. If I'm running in a guild group, I don't have to worry about loot ninjas, and if I'm party lead, I only have to worry about a loot ninja once, because the first time they ninja the loot to sell, they're kicked.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Comments
Most people don't ninja loot items they can't use. See what I did there? So this is your primary issue? Your ninja looting will be made less profitable? Goody.
Ninja looting sucks, but it's not an exploit. It's bad form, and disrespectful to the rest of the group, but it's not an exploit. If I'm party lead, it will also only happen once.
Reads as: I don't have a valid point to make, so I'm going to flame people into seeing things my way.
Neither are you entitled to anything. BTW, look <
Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, Founder. Guess what, I still don't think I'm entitled to anything except not being lumped into the exploiter base, and having my characters wiped at a whim.
Ha, you are right , plus the zen refund was actually only for beta week end.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?69081
I stopped at this :
But really, scrolling down below :
There is no way they can do a wipe and get away with not refunding the Zen, therefore I guess you are right : no wipe will be done for launch, and they might as well call this a "head start"...
So you're going to pay 3 or 4x the market value for an item? When I do browse the AH, I don't buy the first piece of gear I can use, I check prices, and try to find the best value I can. Oddly enough, it's why I didn't buy a Founder's Pack before the game even went into alpha/beta testing. I'm looking for bang for the buck, and buying sight unseen can end badly.
...and finally, here is the ultimate QQ of the week: If you disagree with me, you're cheating. Yeah, move along folks, nothing to see here.
Don't you know: They don't have the staff to track down the exploiters and ban them, but they have the staff to track down every single AD/Zen transaction to refund them. It's funny how that works, isn't it.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
They don't have to. They only need to track down every Zen import into Neverwinter, along with every founder pack. Which would be logged into database, and presumably 100% accurate without any false positives.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
You don't think that 10k AD is too much for a green item? How about the more logical step, banning the exploiter and removing the exploited items from the game, and reimbursing any purchases? I know, it makes sense to do that, and it may entail some work, so the best solution is to just push the wipe button, right? So the next time new content bugs out and winds up being exploited, intentionally or not, we're going to have to wipe again? So really, why even bother playing, if it's going to be a possible wipe after any new content? It's far better to get the backend tools refined and working, and ban the exploiters.
You see, despite the OP's claim that I must be exploiting, I see that as the likely scenario: Well, that content broke the economy, we need another wipe so we can try again. On down the road, more content is going to bug out, that's the nature of adding content to the game; QA doesn't always catch everything, and updates can have unexpected side effects. As someone that wrote code in both NWN games, I can tell you, it happens, and it happens a lot. I have literally spent hours trying to figure out how a VFX fix broke my door closing scripts, or conversations.
Seriously? You don't think it takes staff for that? That's a resource intensive thing, no matter that you think it's "easy" or something. If they have the staff to track every single transaction that brings Zen into the game, then they have the staff to track exploiters. Both require them to go account by account to verify yes or no.
basically this, free to play with a cash shop is destroying mmos even more. They were already hurting as is because no one has the money or wants to invest in one to make a good one. The only people who have the money to make a quality one is Blizzard and we all have our opinions about them.
2) And what if I had resold that platesmith for a profit?
3) Now, if I had resold the platesmith for a profit, how can you tell the difference from me, and a dummy account of the exploiter used to keep his ill gotten gains?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
It's a tree, essentially. Start with known exploiter; track trades/sales. If trades occur frequently with specific accounts, investigate those accounts. A one off purchase from the AH isn't likely to set off any flags at all, and even if it did set a flag, the initial investigation is going to show that it's a one off, and not participating, knowingly, in the exploit. Now, the logical step would be to roll back the exploiter account, and remove the transactions from the game. Reimburse as needed, and go on. Yes, it's a lot of work, but, if you want to assure your fanbase that you're looking out for their best interests, it's worth it in the long run. Since the OP in the Maintenance thread mentions doing this specifically, I think it's more of a stretch that they aren't going to do that.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I'd be a fool to say it can't happen. It can, but I see it as vastly superior to just assuming everyone did it and wipe the whole server. I would hold this line even if I wound up being one of the innocent bystanders. Not a likely issue for me at this point, since I'm no where near endgame, and am not buying gear for it, don't have enough bag/bank space for the junk I do have, but even if I did get caught up, I'd submit a ticket and get it fixed. I'd rather do that than start over, and then later on, when the next wave starts, have to start over again because the playerbase decided that wiping was the only way to fix exploits.
Everyone is affected by this. When the economy is ruined, everyone (who did not cheat) loses.
I didnt lose because I dont use the AH
how so? I don't feel like i've lost. All I see is cheaper items on the AH.
Wiping the server doesn't mean that everyone is guilty, it only means that some individuals has sufficiently broken the system that it needs a hard reset. It's like forcefully evacuating people when a place gets too hazardous to live because some individuals decided that dumping toxic waste in an area is a good idea. Sometimes we just need a hard reset to set things right. And at this point, it's starting to seem likely that this is the case.
EDIT: note: I'm not for the reset myself. I'm only implying that something has to be done, and my proposal is still simply a new shard (or 3). Easiest solution, caters to everyone.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Blanket statements are bad. Blanket statements indicating that people that disagree with you are cheaters are worse. You're really going to say that, because I'm disinclined to starting over every time somebody finds and exploit and runs it into the ground that I must be taking advantage of the exploit? I think the reason you want to start over is that, being a founder, you felt like your 2million AD should have meant more than it did. So of course you want to start over, so you can attempt to manipulate the market with your RMT AD. Am I less accurate than your supposition?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
So free players don't matter? Not sarcasm, just the impression I get from your post, and one that I have seen espoused in this thread by the OP. The fact is, anyone not actively doing end game content isn't affected at this point. Can they be? If it's left alone, maybe. But, as I pointed out previously in this thread, I can get that gear w/out ever looking at the AH, by running the content where it was dropped in the first place. If I'm running in a guild group, I don't have to worry about loot ninjas, and if I'm party lead, I only have to worry about a loot ninja once, because the first time they ninja the loot to sell, they're kicked.