I wish you would put up a skill build as well so we can see what you put on your skills.
I replied to this same question before, and just maxing the skills in my hotbars is enough for the build to work. Obviously. The rest really doesnt matter, atleast to me, because they're unused.
Just did a few T2's, Spider Temple and Pirateking. I was top with a 3 million damage difference in Spider, and 2 million in Pirateking. Had another CW and Rogue in group. Our gearscores were somewhat equal. Mine is now 8,7k.
Also I was wondering about what you aim for stat wise at the end. Do you throw everything into INT? I just sort of want an idea of what the three class stats should end up as at level 60.
All to int, leftovers to Cha. Havent focused on ArP at all, my gear doesn't give it anyway. Just Power and Crit.
Updated guide regarding Powers to stop the same question from popping up every day. Thanks for your comments.
Regarding the Int % damage feat, I do not know how the game calculates it. I don't think anyone knows. It's also unclear to what abilities the AOE Feat applies ( Empowered Ice Strike for example? ) and to which it doesnt. These can only be resolved by the devs telling us, or someone finding it out, somehow.
I'm on a respec -strike until they remove the Zen from respeccing and make it way cheaper by AD/gold.
All to int, leftovers to Cha. Havent focused on ArP at all, my gear doesn't give it anyway. Just Power and Crit.
Updated guide regarding Powers to stop the same question from popping up every day. Thanks for your comments.
Regarding the Int % damage feat, I do not know how the game calculates it. I don't think anyone knows. It's also unclear to what abilities the AOE Feat applies ( Empowered Ice Strike for example? ) and to which it doesnt. These can only be resolved by the devs telling us, or someone finding it out, somehow.
I'm on a respec -strike until they remove the Zen from respeccing and make it way cheaper by AD/gold.
Thanks for the inrofmation so far, has improved my own CW who is now lvl 58 a lot in single target fights
Icy terrain is not useless, once you know what skill to use it with you van keep a pile of mobs iced forever.
Please expound on your spells & rotation.
0
Options
jnaathraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
An interesting and smart move on Cryptic's part. Many of the abilities considered flat out bad for Dungeons are required for PVP.
This is either going to drive a slight wedge between these two sets of players or some people are going to be spending a lot on respecs if they care to do both (and do both well).
Good guide, but most should know this by the time they are 60.
Scout Tragold - "I haven't lived this long by being brave... it's just another word for stupid."
However, I fail to see you logic of DPS one you negate taking some of the far more important aspects of the class.
Control Wizards do not even come close to touching a rogues dps, nor even in the same ball park. Our job, is to control adds, and AOE them down, while contributing to the group in a much more enriching way. At least this is how I see it, so to each it's own.
On an average tier two run, with good "That" mages that happen to end up in group, or good GWF's I am equal, greater, or very slightly less, usually this is determined by the simple fact of agro pull, or an unlucky knock back that takes me out of the fight.
Case in point, a Temple of the Spider run, and know I do not mean the "cheating" way of knocking the boss down the whole, a clear pull and dps burn of the boss. The end stats of this event was rogue, 20mil dps, me 11mil dps, and GWF 11.5mil dps... the other two were clerics.
My job was not to burn mobs but to control them, and contribute to the benefits of our class.
Damage is important, but not as important as control. Baring this in mind, strictly shooting for DPS, you negate the fact that the majority of DPS is based on AOE yet, you lack the Heroic feats that self proportionate the ability.
Wizards Wrath and Focused wizardry is an excellent example of what you are missing. You gave me plenty of examples of what you do, now let me ask you why you completely choose to disregard 15% increase in damage to ALL aoe talents, over what you choose?
Also, to quote your original post you disregard abilities that are control MUSTS, to keep a single cleric alive. Steal Time, Shield, Shard of the Endless Avalanche are mainstays of nearly every t2, and Castle Never fight.
However, every ability has a purpose, and some of them, I would agree are lack luster. Icy Terrain, Maelstrom of Chaos, Icy Rays, Storm Fury, Chilling Cloud, and Chilling Presence are all examples of absolutely non-essential, lack luster skills. However, I will admit, 1 Point in Storm Pillar is worth it, as a means of Self Charging your dailies before a boss fight. As it stands, I cannot commit the last three points of my Power tree, as I have no clue what would be more useful than what I have.... Note: I will post my spec and tree's below.
So let's move over to feats.
Being Human, I have the unfair advantage of an additional 3 Heroic Feats, as I mentioned before, You neglected to take, the two AOE skill contributors, which I would like an explanation for in your early tree, that I think are mandatory, But then you also choose "Learned Spellcaster" over the far supierior
"Unrestrained Chaos". Really? Is your DPS so much better, that you cannot add, 3% increased stats to EVERYONE in group? Keep in mind the description of the Talent you choose, I will agree it is criptic, but you are adding, 5% to the BONUS damage Intel gives you. This is a fraction of a percent in damage increase, and by far the most misleading skill ing the Tier 4 Tree. Did you notice that your gear score goes up by nearly 400 points with "Unrestrained Chaos"?? There is a reason for it.
Now lets move over to the Paragon tree.... Ok.. You make some valid points. Your biggest, is the mitigation principal, from Elemental Enpowerment, and Assailing force. These are HUGE and desirable mitigation talent, that I also choose. But guess what... they did not increase my groups dps, they increased mine. It is true that there are a lot of unknowns in this game, which leads me to the description of Combat Advatage. Combat advantage, is not a skill measured in percent, but rather, it is measured in position. An example of this is a rogue, hitting from a blind spot of a mob, gains combat advantage, however, we all know by now, rogues often take agro... if they are a good rogue that is. And when that happens, their advantage is gone... sorta. Nightmare Wizardry, and Phantasamal Destruction, gives them (somewhat based on crit) the Combat Advantage by 35%, from ANY direction... This means, your whole entire group benefits, during the duration of the Effect of Combat Advatage, 35% of the time. THIS IS A MASSIVE increase to damage to your group... and it helps you a bit as well.
There are far more mechanics at work here however.
For example. Steal Time.
Run up to a group pull, Steal Time, Immediately, the entire pack is affected by MAX arcane stack, now channel in arcane abilities, and I have matched all AOE class for dps... Sudden Storm, Magic Missle, Shard of EA, Shield(blast), Arcane Singularity... My group is happy cause, the mobs are controlled, The dps is consistent amount the group and increased, and I can Chain CC, Large packs of mobs.... mind you this is just and example.
Anyways. There is a lot up for debate, I love Repel, but it is purely situational, and not something used to burn down mobs, that can otherwise be knocked off a cliff.
As promised here is my build. I have been outdps'd by Guardians, CW's, and GWF's, baring in mind, that it is always situational (AKA I DIED, waiting... to run back or whatever), or Outdps'ed them cause I have not died at all, and I am able to focus on a more destructive rotation.
But as far as I can tell, no one comes close to a rogue, and the different specs in CW's barely differ in dps. I only wish I can group with you, being that you are from a different server, cause I am DYING, to get to the bottom of all of this.
Common rotation, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice, Sudden Storm, Chill Strike (Tabbed)
Daily: Singularity, Icy Knife
Passives: Orb of Imposition, Eye of the Storm
Passives: for more dps, Evocation, Storm Spell (situational)
(substitutes, Entangling Force, Shard of EA, Ray of Enfeeblement (good for boss burns)
1 Point in Storm pillar to charge dailes.
9834 GS, currently in Castle Never Ending Pack Pulls.
"It is our responsibilities, not ourselves, that we should take seriously." Peter Ustinov
Control Wizards do not even come close to touching a rogues dps, nor even in the same ball park.
Well, throughout 1-60, T1 and T2, I was rarely out-dpsed by a rogue, if you consider total damage. This was the case pretty much everywhere, except Castle Winter, which I have not done yet. runicfi's experience seems to be the same. It is possible that every rogue we have ever partied with didn't play well, of course, but while on the paper it would seem that our dps should be significantly lower, in actuality it seems to be frequently higher (and always in the same ball park).
Dying shouldn't figure into this because it has no bearing on the dps a spec or class can do. No class is doing dps when they are dead for whatever reason (didn't move out of stuff, rubberbanded, lagged, used potion at the wrong time, etc.)
Great big post. To answer a few of your questions ( though I've said these points in this thread multiple times already ) is that for example, apparently the AoE damage Feat Focused Wizardry has been reported not to affect all abilities, such as Empowered Ice Strike, which is the second biggest source of damage in my build. Therefore it's obsolete for my build ( next to the fact that none other AoE skills are used. Sudden Storm seems unaffected by it too. )
Regarding your control vs. dps question, to that one I have answered multiple times in this thread, can be found by looking. I'm farming tier2's just fine. I have utilized Steal Time in some dungeons or when the group needs it.
You say Shard of the endless Avalanche and Shield are mainstays of any T2. I have not had -any- need for either and I have cleared all T2's except the Mad Dragons Lair. Steal Time has been useful in many situations. So on that I'll just disagree. Can't say about castle never, havent gone there yet.
Do you mean Prestidigitation when you're talking about Unrestrained Chaos? Because Unrestrained Chaos is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and it seems you're talking about giving stats to party members in conjuction, which is what Prestidigitation does. Can't say between the Int and Aoe damage talents, because both have been contradicted by player reports of them not working/doing what they're supposed to.
Why doesnt lowering the mitigation and defences say, of a boss, help your group do more damage to it? You claim it only helps yours. Sure does to mine, I often receive comments from people saying how they noticed the boss burning so much faster when my debuffs struck him/her.
Also, many players have reported that the last Feat of the Renegade tree, Chaos Magic, isn't working. Is this true?
The way I see it, your build/Renegade in general is about helping your group more ( Combat Advantage, Ray ) and your own damage less, while Thauma is helping your group some ( Assailing Force, Elemental Empowerment, Ray ) and mostly increasing your own damage. One thing I find interesting though about the "us Renegades doing control, you Thaumaturgists doing damage" -argument. There is nothing that increases crowd control ( stun/daze/root/knockback ) in the Renegade tree. The only thing even related is Maelstrom of Chaos adding Chill, and no one uses that crappy spell. I have all the same control that a Renegade Wizard does if required.
Here's what I do know:
-I've not lost to a single Renegade wizard in DPS yet.
-I have been beaten by 2 Rogues, both one time, so far, in damage done. ( 90% likely to change over time )
-I'm farming all T2's without issues ( with the exception of Lair of the Mad Dragon to which I just haven't gone yet )
-This guide is about doing maximum DPS, as I've stated a 100 times before, not about helping your group, or doing maximum control. There are people who want to do maximum DPS, and this guide is for them. Last time I state it, in the future I will ignore all arguments/post related to this. Personally, I control when control is needed. Excess control to me is a waste. I control what is needed, and I DPS the rest of the time. If my group gets things done, I have performed successfully. If someone is in the illusion that I wouldn't give my group all the control they need, well, the word "illusion" was included in this sentence.
When focusing only on control will be required from me for the group to succeed, I will do so. Note I do dungeons with buddies mostly. This is how I play my Control Wizard. I prioritize damage over control, and I am ready to turn it the other way around if required. The day I manage to do more damage as Renegade than as Thaumaturgy, is the day I will change this DPS guide to include a Renegade -build instead. Don't get me wrong, I'm not faithful to Thaumaturgy. I'm faithful to greatest damage output. I'll scrap Thaumaturgy like a pile of trash if future changes make me do more damage as something else ( or if I reach a point in the game where I can't focus mostly on damage anymore, but that hasn't happened yet. ) Also note I've stated many times that everything included are just my findings. If someone does more damage with Shard of the Endless Avalanche or Path of Ice, then thats great for them.
Well, throughout 1-60, T1 and T2, I was rarely out-dpsed by a rogue, if you consider total damage. This was the case pretty much everywhere, except Castle Winter, which I have not done yet. runicfi's experience seems to be the same. It is possible that every rogue we have ever partied with didn't play well, of course, but while on the paper it would seem that our dps should be significantly lower, in actuality it seems to be frequently higher (and always in the same ball park).
Dying shouldn't figure into this because it has no bearing on the dps a spec or class can do. No class is doing dps when they are dead for whatever reason (didn't move out of stuff, rubberbanded, lagged, used potion at the wrong time, etc.)
Doing Castle never tonight, 3/5 up till the Dracolich, but servers went down.
Rogue, 29mil
Me, 22 Mil
Other Control Wiz, 22mil
He was a "Thaturmage", and I was above him by about 2 mil on a regular pace, till I was disconnected. If you do not think death or disconnects have any baring on dps, run back to the 3rd boss in Castle Never... its a hike.
Yes I meant prestidigitation... wrote this in haste. So we did the same amount, while I had a significant amount of more control. I guess the only way to prove it is to play with you.
Chaos Magic works, but it doesn't always proc the same thing, seems to be bugged with to proc only on crits though.
I'm sorry you do not want to respond to people who disagree with you, I thought you wanted a comprehensive guide.
Good luck to you.
"It is our responsibilities, not ourselves, that we should take seriously." Peter Ustinov
Doing Castle never tonight, 3/5 up till the Dracolich, but servers went down.
Rogue, 29mil
Me, 22 Mil
Other Control Wiz, 22mil
He was a "Thaturmage", and I was above him by about 2 mil on a regular pace, till I was disconnected. If you do not think death or disconnects have any baring on dps, run back to the 3rd boss in Castle Never... its a hike.
Yes I meant prestidigitation... wrote this in haste. So we did the same amount, while I had a significant amount of more control. I guess the only way to prove it is to play with you.
Chaos Magic works, but it doesn't always proc the same thing, seems to be bugged with to proc only on crits though.
I'm sorry you do not want to respond to people who disagree with you, I thought you wanted a comprehensive guide.
So we did the same amount, while I had a significant amount of more control. I guess the only way to prove it is to play with you.
And only if we had the exact same gear, attacked the exact same mobs at the same time and so on. I think it's easier to test it by speccing and observing the differences on your own character. I repeat I've specced 9 times, twice into Renegade with almost the same feats as what you use. How about you?
I'm sorry you do not want to respond to people who disagree with you, I thought you wanted a comprehensive guide.
... and this is where you lost me. I just spent 40 minutes responding to almost you solely, ouch bro. I don't want a guide much longer than what mine is, though. But I guess it will grow over time.
So we did the same amount, while I had a significant amount of more control.
What control powers were you using he wasn't for you to have "significantly" more control? If you out DPS'd him by having 3 of your Encounter slots used for stuns and dazes only, then kudos to you, absolutely. Then there's again ofcourse the gear, placement, timing etcetra to these comparisons, which makes it so hard to compare. The best way to compare I've just found to be on your own character, because your items and playstyle will be the same.
Anyway, there was already interest above in your setup from someone, I think you should make your own guide. I'm sure imivo could add it to the list.
Critical Power changed to Nightmare Wizardry - Reasoning:
With gear getting upgraded, you now gain enough action points from that alone, making the need and damage ( daily frequency ) increasing potency of Critical Power unrequired. Getting Combat Advantage from Nightmare Wizardry increases damage more overall.
Destructive Wizardry changed to Tempest Magic - Reasoning:
Trying to spam Storm Pillar to gain the buff of Destructive Wizardry tends to hurt your DPS, and it doesn't succeed 100% of the time, being even more of a waste. The buff is also relatively short. Just spamming Magic Missile is more effective ( plainly put, there's no real use for a Second At-Will, as sad as it is. Just for Ray of Frost for that one more stun/slow, but this is almost never required. ) Tempest Magic however is "on" all the time, and increases your overall damage output more than the Storm Pillar -buff. It doesnt require you to do anything, therefore not causing downtime. In bosses and high health mobs it grants a boatload of more total damage done.
hmm i have test this afew times and i have seen that coduit of ice seem to does more dmg then ice strike. In addition since if we put coduit of ice on the tab key,mob in range( note coduit of ice has a larger range then ice strike) would be affected by 6 stacks of chill eventually. Wouldnt this make adding 5 points into Bitter cold more advantageous over putting it into combat advantage since it only has a 20% chance of granting you the advantage? What does combat advantage exactly does because i really dun c the advantage it brings hmm.
0
Options
princecharmingsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Is this only good for dungeon or for regular pve questing as well?
Critical Power changed to Nightmare Wizardry - Reasoning:
With gear getting upgraded, you now gain enough action points from that alone, making the need and damage ( daily frequency ) increasing potency of Critical Power unrequired. Getting Combat Advantage from Nightmare Wizardry increases damage more overall.
Destructive Wizardry changed to Tempest Magic - Reasoning:
Trying to spam Storm Pillar to gain the buff of Destructive Wizardry tends to hurt your DPS, and it doesn't succeed 100% of the time, being even more of a waste. The buff is also relatively short. Just spamming Magic Missile is more effective ( plainly put, there's no real use for a Second At-Will, as sad as it is. Just for Ray of Frost for that one more stun/slow, but this is almost never required. ) Tempest Magic however is "on" all the time, and increases your overall damage output more than the Storm Pillar -buff. It doesnt require you to do anything, therefore not causing downtime. In bosses and high health mobs it grants a boatload of more total damage done.
Nice update, seems reasonable, i regret putting 5 points into Critical power due to the action poionts gain is on a 10 seconds cooldown, which i thaught wouldent be a big deal, but seems like its crappy now that i do have it.
The build looks similar to what I'm using. At same gear score, you get higher single-target dps than a rogue plus cc and mitigation reduction on target which boosts the damage of whole party.
If a rogue has "same or +10% dps over you" it just means he loves your aoe mitigation reduction debuff from conduit and magic missile(elemental empowerment), as well as ray of enfeeblement. Not sure about how much they ray gives when it's double-cast in spell mastery slot, but that should all sum up to 30-40% mitigation reduction or 50%+ dps boost for the party.
Question:
Can anyone confirm what exactly is "Learned Spellcaster" giving.
Is it +5% absolute value bonus to damage? Or a 5% * (Int - 10) ?
Since respeccing is the gamedev money-making machine - they'll just "balance" abilities later on and one day you wake up with a nerfed build with no free respec token.
I wouldn't even be surprised when they don't give a free re-spec to all when they implement other mage classes, cept for the only available now called spellstorm mage.
Is this build good for regular PVE as well? or just mainly for dungeon use?
I've started using this build in dungeons and as well as questing and it works well... most trash mobs that rush you get taken out by the chill and sudden storm and then from there it's just CC and kite the big guys
I just want to add that any skill that pushes mobs away should almost never be used in dungeons, i don't care how much deeps you get out of it. It becomes a pain for every other player in the group. Any other aoe now has to wait for them to come back, which they usually do, and if they used an aoe daily as you did that, well, it's wasted.
Knocking Targets off the ledge is 100% not part of any dungeon run. Specially Epic Runs...
^^^^Sarcastic Font^^^
I died when I read what he posted.
Strat@stratxzz on the Dragon Shard
Strat - Great Weapon Fighter - Level 60 ( Retired for now ) Strattwo - Control Wizard - Level 60 Stratx - Devoted Cleric - Level 60 Stratt - Trickster Rogue - Level 18
http://theeoi.com - Visit for more information on our gaming community.
Fully skill the powers I have slotted in my hotbars ( detailed below ) the rest doesn't matter. Entangling Force and Steal Time can be useful if more control is required.
thanks, very good guide that actually solved my feasts problem and helped me a lot!
but i dont understand this part : Stats: Power > Crit > Rest you mean items, right?
also i think eye of the storm is kinda useless because when you are low health you are gonna rather heal yourself than keep deeling dmg and die, dont you think?
0
Options
syfylisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Nice build but.
Got CW with GS 9,5k and I'm sure that your build must do great dmg but when you go to any instance from Pirate king and higher your team need CC more than ever. I manage to get to 4th boss in castle never and amount of mobs is ridiculous. So unless you pull out really huge dps then your team will fail.
Comments
Icy terrain is not useless, once you know what skill to use it with you van keep a pile of mobs iced forever.
-Kymos
I replied to this same question before, and just maxing the skills in my hotbars is enough for the build to work. Obviously. The rest really doesnt matter, atleast to me, because they're unused.
Just did a few T2's, Spider Temple and Pirateking. I was top with a 3 million damage difference in Spider, and 2 million in Pirateking. Had another CW and Rogue in group. Our gearscores were somewhat equal. Mine is now 8,7k.
All to int, leftovers to Cha. Havent focused on ArP at all, my gear doesn't give it anyway. Just Power and Crit.
Updated guide regarding Powers to stop the same question from popping up every day. Thanks for your comments.
Regarding the Int % damage feat, I do not know how the game calculates it. I don't think anyone knows. It's also unclear to what abilities the AOE Feat applies ( Empowered Ice Strike for example? ) and to which it doesnt. These can only be resolved by the devs telling us, or someone finding it out, somehow.
I'm on a respec -strike until they remove the Zen from respeccing and make it way cheaper by AD/gold.
Thanks for the inrofmation so far, has improved my own CW who is now lvl 58 a lot in single target fights
Please expound on your spells & rotation.
This is either going to drive a slight wedge between these two sets of players or some people are going to be spending a lot on respecs if they care to do both (and do both well).
Good guide, but most should know this by the time they are 60.
However, I fail to see you logic of DPS one you negate taking some of the far more important aspects of the class.
Control Wizards do not even come close to touching a rogues dps, nor even in the same ball park. Our job, is to control adds, and AOE them down, while contributing to the group in a much more enriching way. At least this is how I see it, so to each it's own.
On an average tier two run, with good "That" mages that happen to end up in group, or good GWF's I am equal, greater, or very slightly less, usually this is determined by the simple fact of agro pull, or an unlucky knock back that takes me out of the fight.
Case in point, a Temple of the Spider run, and know I do not mean the "cheating" way of knocking the boss down the whole, a clear pull and dps burn of the boss. The end stats of this event was rogue, 20mil dps, me 11mil dps, and GWF 11.5mil dps... the other two were clerics.
My job was not to burn mobs but to control them, and contribute to the benefits of our class.
Damage is important, but not as important as control. Baring this in mind, strictly shooting for DPS, you negate the fact that the majority of DPS is based on AOE yet, you lack the Heroic feats that self proportionate the ability.
Wizards Wrath and Focused wizardry is an excellent example of what you are missing. You gave me plenty of examples of what you do, now let me ask you why you completely choose to disregard 15% increase in damage to ALL aoe talents, over what you choose?
Also, to quote your original post you disregard abilities that are control MUSTS, to keep a single cleric alive. Steal Time, Shield, Shard of the Endless Avalanche are mainstays of nearly every t2, and Castle Never fight.
However, every ability has a purpose, and some of them, I would agree are lack luster. Icy Terrain, Maelstrom of Chaos, Icy Rays, Storm Fury, Chilling Cloud, and Chilling Presence are all examples of absolutely non-essential, lack luster skills. However, I will admit, 1 Point in Storm Pillar is worth it, as a means of Self Charging your dailies before a boss fight. As it stands, I cannot commit the last three points of my Power tree, as I have no clue what would be more useful than what I have.... Note: I will post my spec and tree's below.
So let's move over to feats.
Being Human, I have the unfair advantage of an additional 3 Heroic Feats, as I mentioned before, You neglected to take, the two AOE skill contributors, which I would like an explanation for in your early tree, that I think are mandatory, But then you also choose "Learned Spellcaster" over the far supierior
"Unrestrained Chaos". Really? Is your DPS so much better, that you cannot add, 3% increased stats to EVERYONE in group? Keep in mind the description of the Talent you choose, I will agree it is criptic, but you are adding, 5% to the BONUS damage Intel gives you. This is a fraction of a percent in damage increase, and by far the most misleading skill ing the Tier 4 Tree. Did you notice that your gear score goes up by nearly 400 points with "Unrestrained Chaos"?? There is a reason for it.
Now lets move over to the Paragon tree.... Ok.. You make some valid points. Your biggest, is the mitigation principal, from Elemental Enpowerment, and Assailing force. These are HUGE and desirable mitigation talent, that I also choose. But guess what... they did not increase my groups dps, they increased mine. It is true that there are a lot of unknowns in this game, which leads me to the description of Combat Advatage. Combat advantage, is not a skill measured in percent, but rather, it is measured in position. An example of this is a rogue, hitting from a blind spot of a mob, gains combat advantage, however, we all know by now, rogues often take agro... if they are a good rogue that is. And when that happens, their advantage is gone... sorta. Nightmare Wizardry, and Phantasamal Destruction, gives them (somewhat based on crit) the Combat Advantage by 35%, from ANY direction... This means, your whole entire group benefits, during the duration of the Effect of Combat Advatage, 35% of the time. THIS IS A MASSIVE increase to damage to your group... and it helps you a bit as well.
There are far more mechanics at work here however.
For example. Steal Time.
Run up to a group pull, Steal Time, Immediately, the entire pack is affected by MAX arcane stack, now channel in arcane abilities, and I have matched all AOE class for dps... Sudden Storm, Magic Missle, Shard of EA, Shield(blast), Arcane Singularity... My group is happy cause, the mobs are controlled, The dps is consistent amount the group and increased, and I can Chain CC, Large packs of mobs.... mind you this is just and example.
Anyways. There is a lot up for debate, I love Repel, but it is purely situational, and not something used to burn down mobs, that can otherwise be knocked off a cliff.
As promised here is my build. I have been outdps'd by Guardians, CW's, and GWF's, baring in mind, that it is always situational (AKA I DIED, waiting... to run back or whatever), or Outdps'ed them cause I have not died at all, and I am able to focus on a more destructive rotation.
But as far as I can tell, no one comes close to a rogue, and the different specs in CW's barely differ in dps. I only wish I can group with you, being that you are from a different server, cause I am DYING, to get to the bottom of all of this.
Cheers Mate.
Feats:Heroic
3/5 - 5/5 - 0/3 - 0/5
3/3 - 0/3 - 0/5 - 3/3
0/3 - 3/3 - 3/3 - 3/3
Feats Paragon:Oppressor:
(sigh, none, I am waiting with baited breath for a frost build)
Thaumaturge:
5/5 - 0/5 - 0/5 - 0/5
5/5 - 0/5 - 0/5 - 0/5
Renegade:
0/5 - 5/5 - 5/5 - 5/5 (1/1)
5/5 - 0/5 - 0/5 - 0/5
Common rotation, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice, Sudden Storm, Chill Strike (Tabbed)
Daily: Singularity, Icy Knife
Passives: Orb of Imposition, Eye of the Storm
Passives: for more dps, Evocation, Storm Spell (situational)
(substitutes, Entangling Force, Shard of EA, Ray of Enfeeblement (good for boss burns)
1 Point in Storm pillar to charge dailes.
9834 GS, currently in Castle Never Ending Pack Pulls.
Well, throughout 1-60, T1 and T2, I was rarely out-dpsed by a rogue, if you consider total damage. This was the case pretty much everywhere, except Castle Winter, which I have not done yet. runicfi's experience seems to be the same. It is possible that every rogue we have ever partied with didn't play well, of course, but while on the paper it would seem that our dps should be significantly lower, in actuality it seems to be frequently higher (and always in the same ball park).
Dying shouldn't figure into this because it has no bearing on the dps a spec or class can do. No class is doing dps when they are dead for whatever reason (didn't move out of stuff, rubberbanded, lagged, used potion at the wrong time, etc.)
Great big post. To answer a few of your questions ( though I've said these points in this thread multiple times already ) is that for example, apparently the AoE damage Feat Focused Wizardry has been reported not to affect all abilities, such as Empowered Ice Strike, which is the second biggest source of damage in my build. Therefore it's obsolete for my build ( next to the fact that none other AoE skills are used. Sudden Storm seems unaffected by it too. )
Regarding your control vs. dps question, to that one I have answered multiple times in this thread, can be found by looking. I'm farming tier2's just fine. I have utilized Steal Time in some dungeons or when the group needs it.
You say Shard of the endless Avalanche and Shield are mainstays of any T2. I have not had -any- need for either and I have cleared all T2's except the Mad Dragons Lair. Steal Time has been useful in many situations. So on that I'll just disagree. Can't say about castle never, havent gone there yet.
Do you mean Prestidigitation when you're talking about Unrestrained Chaos? Because Unrestrained Chaos is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and it seems you're talking about giving stats to party members in conjuction, which is what Prestidigitation does. Can't say between the Int and Aoe damage talents, because both have been contradicted by player reports of them not working/doing what they're supposed to.
Why doesnt lowering the mitigation and defences say, of a boss, help your group do more damage to it? You claim it only helps yours. Sure does to mine, I often receive comments from people saying how they noticed the boss burning so much faster when my debuffs struck him/her.
Also, many players have reported that the last Feat of the Renegade tree, Chaos Magic, isn't working. Is this true?
The way I see it, your build/Renegade in general is about helping your group more ( Combat Advantage, Ray ) and your own damage less, while Thauma is helping your group some ( Assailing Force, Elemental Empowerment, Ray ) and mostly increasing your own damage. One thing I find interesting though about the "us Renegades doing control, you Thaumaturgists doing damage" -argument. There is nothing that increases crowd control ( stun/daze/root/knockback ) in the Renegade tree. The only thing even related is Maelstrom of Chaos adding Chill, and no one uses that crappy spell. I have all the same control that a Renegade Wizard does if required.
Here's what I do know:
-I've not lost to a single Renegade wizard in DPS yet.
-I have been beaten by 2 Rogues, both one time, so far, in damage done. ( 90% likely to change over time )
-I'm farming all T2's without issues ( with the exception of Lair of the Mad Dragon to which I just haven't gone yet )
-This guide is about doing maximum DPS, as I've stated a 100 times before, not about helping your group, or doing maximum control. There are people who want to do maximum DPS, and this guide is for them. Last time I state it, in the future I will ignore all arguments/post related to this. Personally, I control when control is needed. Excess control to me is a waste. I control what is needed, and I DPS the rest of the time. If my group gets things done, I have performed successfully. If someone is in the illusion that I wouldn't give my group all the control they need, well, the word "illusion" was included in this sentence.
When focusing only on control will be required from me for the group to succeed, I will do so. Note I do dungeons with buddies mostly. This is how I play my Control Wizard. I prioritize damage over control, and I am ready to turn it the other way around if required. The day I manage to do more damage as Renegade than as Thaumaturgy, is the day I will change this DPS guide to include a Renegade -build instead. Don't get me wrong, I'm not faithful to Thaumaturgy. I'm faithful to greatest damage output. I'll scrap Thaumaturgy like a pile of trash if future changes make me do more damage as something else ( or if I reach a point in the game where I can't focus mostly on damage anymore, but that hasn't happened yet. ) Also note I've stated many times that everything included are just my findings. If someone does more damage with Shard of the Endless Avalanche or Path of Ice, then thats great for them.
Agreed.
Doing Castle never tonight, 3/5 up till the Dracolich, but servers went down.
Rogue, 29mil
Me, 22 Mil
Other Control Wiz, 22mil
He was a "Thaturmage", and I was above him by about 2 mil on a regular pace, till I was disconnected. If you do not think death or disconnects have any baring on dps, run back to the 3rd boss in Castle Never... its a hike.
Yes I meant prestidigitation... wrote this in haste. So we did the same amount, while I had a significant amount of more control. I guess the only way to prove it is to play with you.
Chaos Magic works, but it doesn't always proc the same thing, seems to be bugged with to proc only on crits though.
I'm sorry you do not want to respond to people who disagree with you, I thought you wanted a comprehensive guide.
Good luck to you.
what skill setup you use in Dungeons?
And only if we had the exact same gear, attacked the exact same mobs at the same time and so on. I think it's easier to test it by speccing and observing the differences on your own character. I repeat I've specced 9 times, twice into Renegade with almost the same feats as what you use. How about you?
Good to hear, because it would've sucked if the biggest Feat didn't work.
... and this is where you lost me. I just spent 40 minutes responding to almost you solely, ouch bro. I don't want a guide much longer than what mine is, though. But I guess it will grow over time.
What control powers were you using he wasn't for you to have "significantly" more control? If you out DPS'd him by having 3 of your Encounter slots used for stuns and dazes only, then kudos to you, absolutely. Then there's again ofcourse the gear, placement, timing etcetra to these comparisons, which makes it so hard to compare. The best way to compare I've just found to be on your own character, because your items and playstyle will be the same.
Anyway, there was already interest above in your setup from someone, I think you should make your own guide. I'm sure imivo could add it to the list.
Critical Power changed to Nightmare Wizardry - Reasoning:
With gear getting upgraded, you now gain enough action points from that alone, making the need and damage ( daily frequency ) increasing potency of Critical Power unrequired. Getting Combat Advantage from Nightmare Wizardry increases damage more overall.
Destructive Wizardry changed to Tempest Magic - Reasoning:
Trying to spam Storm Pillar to gain the buff of Destructive Wizardry tends to hurt your DPS, and it doesn't succeed 100% of the time, being even more of a waste. The buff is also relatively short. Just spamming Magic Missile is more effective ( plainly put, there's no real use for a Second At-Will, as sad as it is. Just for Ray of Frost for that one more stun/slow, but this is almost never required. ) Tempest Magic however is "on" all the time, and increases your overall damage output more than the Storm Pillar -buff. It doesnt require you to do anything, therefore not causing downtime. In bosses and high health mobs it grants a boatload of more total damage done.
I have my own rotation kind of pointed out atm , but its always nice to hear with what spell people open en what thier rotation is !
Nice update, seems reasonable, i regret putting 5 points into Critical power due to the action poionts gain is on a 10 seconds cooldown, which i thaught wouldent be a big deal, but seems like its crappy now that i do have it.
If a rogue has "same or +10% dps over you" it just means he loves your aoe mitigation reduction debuff from conduit and magic missile(elemental empowerment), as well as ray of enfeeblement. Not sure about how much they ray gives when it's double-cast in spell mastery slot, but that should all sum up to 30-40% mitigation reduction or 50%+ dps boost for the party.
Question:
Can anyone confirm what exactly is "Learned Spellcaster" giving.
Is it +5% absolute value bonus to damage? Or a 5% * (Int - 10) ?
Since respeccing is the gamedev money-making machine - they'll just "balance" abilities later on and one day you wake up with a nerfed build with no free respec token.
I wouldn't even be surprised when they don't give a free re-spec to all when they implement other mage classes, cept for the only available now called spellstorm mage.
+1
Increases damage by 250%.
Is this build good for regular PVE as well? or just mainly for dungeon use?
I've started using this build in dungeons and as well as questing and it works well... most trash mobs that rush you get taken out by the chill and sudden storm and then from there it's just CC and kite the big guys
http://www.romulanstarempire.com/
Knocking Targets off the ledge is 100% not part of any dungeon run. Specially Epic Runs...
^^^^Sarcastic Font^^^
I died when I read what he posted.
Strat - Great Weapon Fighter - Level 60 ( Retired for now )
Strattwo - Control Wizard - Level 60
Stratx - Devoted Cleric - Level 60
Stratt - Trickster Rogue - Level 18
http://theeoi.com - Visit for more information on our gaming community.
What Powers should I skill up and how?
but i dont understand this part : Stats: Power > Crit > Rest you mean items, right?
also i think eye of the storm is kinda useless because when you are low health you are gonna rather heal yourself than keep deeling dmg and die, dont you think?
Got CW with GS 9,5k and I'm sure that your build must do great dmg but when you go to any instance from Pirate king and higher your team need CC more than ever. I manage to get to 4th boss in castle never and amount of mobs is ridiculous. So unless you pull out really huge dps then your team will fail.
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library