"If people who didn't want to spend $6 once in the entire life of a character leave, what exactly is the downside to PWE?"
You fail to understand players who care about their characters.
In my eyes, people who care about their characters are people who want their characters to be properly specced. _YOU_ fail to understand subjectivity. Your standpoint enforces a style of gameplay on me (no respecs without ludicrous cost), while mine enforces nothing on you (you can choose not to respec and not to play with people who respec, even if it is available).
You fail to understand players who care about their characters.
Close. I fail to understand HUMANS who devote themselves to their CREATIONS without being truly devoted. If my Rogue were my child, and he wanted to change his life to make it more enjoyable and prosperous, I'd stand behind him with every fiber of my being.
People who tell me, "Sorry, your Rogue (child) chose to have Downs Syndrome, even though he didn't realize it, just has to deal with it" make me a little queasy.
Should respeccing be easy and free?
Nope. Never said it should.
But I did say that the cost (as I understand it at present) feels prohibitive. If this was an actual child, I'd spend every penny I have to get rid of his bad choices and limits. Hell, I'd give my life for it.
But it's not a child. This isn't real life. And in order to "upgrade" my "child" out of Downs Syndrome, I'm being told to spend my real life money or time (the two most valuable assets I have and ever will).
That's not acceptable.
So I believe you fail to understand the real value of your time and money.
Or, I could be arguing against something that isn't really an issue. I'm going to go log in for a bit and spend some real life time being more sure.
I don't mind them charging zen for a re-spec but 600 does seem a bit steep. Spec and gear are the only factors separating members of the same class at endgame. I enjoyed leveling and I am enjoying the gear grind, but a build grind? I'll go for at least 1 re-spec, but after that if I'm displeased with the toon I doubt I'll grind for a second.
Close. I fail to understand HUMANS who devote themselves to their CREATIONS without being truly devoted. If my Rogue were my child, and he wanted to change his life to make it more enjoyable and prosperous, I'd stand behind him with every fiber of my being.
People who tell me, "Sorry, your Rogue (child) chose to have Downs Syndrome, even though he didn't realize it, just has to deal with it" make me a little queasy.
Should respeccing be easy and free?
Nope. Never said it should.
But I did say that the cost (as I understand it at present) feels prohibitive. If this was an actual child, I'd spend every penny I have to get rid of his bad choices and limits. Hell, I'd give my life for it.
But it's not a child. This isn't real life. And in order to "upgrade" my "child" out of Downs Syndrome, I'm being told to spend my real life money or time (the two most valuable assets I have and ever will).
That's not acceptable.
So I believe you fail to understand the real value of your time and money.
Or, I could be arguing against something that isn't really an issue. I'm going to go log in for a bit and spend some real life time being more sure.
Toodles.
I guess if I thought my characters were the equivalent of my kids, I'd be pretty mad too. But since I can delete them at any time w/out having the cops banging my door down, I guess I can either pay for my kid to go to school to learn a new trade, or make him work for it. Gee, I guess your analogy falls short on all accounts, eh?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Ya know.. FINE.. I think they should give you ONE (1) (uno) respec for free.. Just ONE.. So all the "children with down syndrome" (neverderp3012, 'descriptor' above) at least have one shot to get it right after using the original level path as experimentation (1 point in each feat or skill is all you need to "try" something out)
I guess if I thought my characters were the equivalent of my kids, I'd be pretty mad too. But since I can delete them at any time w/out having the cops banging my door down, I guess I can either pay for my kid to go to school to learn a new trade, or make him work for it. Gee, I guess your analogy falls short on all accounts, eh?
Hmmm. The instance that people must NOT have the character that they want, continues to confirm the inability to understand storytelling.
I am new to Neverwinter. And new to MMOs really. Neverwinter is the first MMO that I am taking seriously, precisely because it so artistically beautiful.
I my first and only character, a L20 Control Wizard, has no problems with “feats”. I want to adjust his physical appearance, with customization that I am now more familiar with. (And I want more fashion items as soon as possible. I really hate the trope of Wizard in robes. Thank the designers he at least has a shave and a hair cut!)
I also want to swap around the powers a bit, now that I know which powers I like, and which I didnt get into - or couldnt use because of lack of slots.
Nothing fancy. I just want the basic featurs to work in a way I like. But the Astral Diamonds are an impossible solution.
If I have to PAY to make basic features work right - like avatar appearance and power options - then it isnt Free-2-Play.
Yeah, having a niece with Downs, I didn't feel like I should take my gaming into something like that. You know, if it's that bad for you, I'll pay for your respec myself, one time. Seriously, I'm disabled and barely get by, but if I felt I'd broken my character bad enough to respec, I'd buy it, or depending on level, start over.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
0
shock4ndaweMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Ya know.. FINE.. I think they should give you ONE (1) (uno) respec for free.. Just ONE.. So all the "children with down syndrome" (neverderp3012, 'descriptor' above) at least have one shot to get it right after using the original level path as experimentation (1 point in each feat or skill is all you need to "try" something out)
After that, you should grind, pay or play..
You are grinding by playing the game. There is no reason a respec should cost real money. We already have gold in the game, why can't a respec cost gold instead? People need to respec. We fvck up and make mistakes. Sometimes we don't even like our builds.
This isn't up for debate. A game can't survive like this. When you make things prohibitively hard to obtain, less and less people go for them. That works well for dungeons, but for a simple respec of your character? It's utterly nonsense.
I am new to Neverwinter. And new to MMOs really. Neverwinter is the first MMO that I am taking seriously, precisely because it so artistically beautiful.
I my first and only character, a L20 Control Wizard, has no problems with “feats”. I want to adjust his physical appearance, with customization that I am now more familiar with. (And I want more fashion items as soon as possible. I really hate the trope of Wizard in robes. Thank the designers he at least has a shave and a hair cut!)
I also want to swap around the powers a bit, now that I know which powers I like, and which I didnt get into - or couldnt use because of lack of slots.
Nothing fancy. I just want the basic featurs to work in a way I like. But the Astral Diamonds are an impossible solution.
If I have to PAY to make basic features work right - like avatar appearance and power options - then it isnt Free-2-Play.
I'm not defending the choices made here, but does your appearance have anything to do with the actual play of the game?
I mean, your avatar could be a simple green circle and how you interact with the interface doesn't change.
Power options... yeah, I'm on your side, but seriously: "I can't play because my avatar is wearing a hula skirt when I want leather chaps!"... not really an argument. I'm just saying.
This isn't up for debate. A game can't survive like this. When you make things prohibitively hard to obtain, less and less people go for them. That works well for dungeons, but for a simple respec of your character? It's utterly nonsense.
Wrong, a game can't survive without income. They don't make us subscribe. They need to generate funds to run it somehow. If that be respec tokens, colored dyes for your clothes, mounts, coasters for your table in your house you don't have yet or maybe never will, that is what it is.
Still disenchanted! No T6 Science for KDF and word is there never will be one!
Yeah, having a niece with Downs, I didn't feel like I should take my gaming into something like that. You know, if it's that bad for you, I'll pay for your respec myself, one time. Seriously, I'm disabled and barely get by, but if I felt I'd broken my character bad enough to respec, I'd buy it, or depending on level, start over.
So you didn't actually read and understand what I wrote.
Fair enough. But your sentiment, situation and circumstances are actually irrelevant to my point since you didn't. I feel for your life circumstance, but they don't apply here because for whatever reason you seem to have chosen to focus on the mention of a disability that impacts you, rather than the actual content of what I wrote.
I'm not trying to be mean, and hope that's not how I'm coming across. But the fact is that if you can't/don't/won't understand what is written, your commentary on it isn't valid regardless of your personal circumstances.
An analogy: I don't speak Farsi, but I do know a few words like "American" and "evil."
So me being upset about seeing the two words I understand in a paragraph points to my limitations and says nothing about the actual content of the paragraph.
I hope you understand.
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shock4ndaweMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Wrong, a game can't survive without income. They don't make us subscribe. They need to generate funds to run it somehow. If that be respec tokens, colored dyes for your clothes, mounts, coasters for your table in your house you don't have yet or maybe never will, that is what it is.
Wrong. No F2P game charges this much for a character respec. Not a single one.
And it's also wrong to charge people real money for a respec at all. Some things should only be covered by the in-game currency(gold).
0
merrybelleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
I've played some games where the cost to redo your skills costs $20 or even more, so paying $6 per token is not so bad really. I think you are all annoyed that they are charging you at all, but lots of games do that. On the other game they make, Champions, I think you get a free token at max level, but I don't really recall for certain. I know that I earned tokens as veteran rewards too. They also sold them in the cash shop. Plus the offered a place where you could test your powers before making a commitment, which is what I would really like to see here.
But now that Cryptic is in bed with Perfect World, it isn't likely to happen. We are not nearly as valued as customers anymore, at least that is how I have felt ever since the merge. I feel like I have a dollar sign floating over my head sometimes when I play a Cryptic game, especially with the addition of the gamble boxes, currency conversion, and all these down-the-black-hole sinks for that currency slapping me in the face at every turn. Sometimes I think it would have been better if they'd just closed their games rather than picking at my wallet like some old hen picking at her chicken feed when it is long past time that she should have been cooked. I love Cryptic games, but they really sold their souls in order to stay afloat. Perfect World is a really bad business.
I'm not defending the choices made here, but does your appearance have anything to do with the actual play of the game?
The appearance of my character has everything to do with my enjoyment of the game. In fact, I wouldnt play the game otherwise.
Along the same lines. The only reason I care about Neverwinter at all is, the foundry provides powerful tools for players to create (and respec!) their own quests. I have only been on two or three player-made quests so far, but I am impressed. (Im still exploring the official worlds.)
For the first time ever, it seems possible to use a digital medium for actual D&D gaming. The DM designs the quests, and the players explore it.
It is necessary to me to create characters (exactly the way I want them), and to create world (exactly the way I want them), and to enjoy the way other players create their characters and their worlds.
r
The appearance of my character has everything to do with my enjoyment of the game. In fact, I wouldnt play the game otherwise.
Along the same lines. The only reason I care about Neverwinter at all is, the foundry provides powerful tools for players to create (and respec!) their own quests. I have only been on two or three player-made quests so far, but I am impressed. (Im still exploring the official worlds.)
For the first time ever, it seems possible to use a digital medium for actual D&D gaming. The DM designs the quests, and the players explore it.
It is necessary to me to create characters (exactly the way I want them), and to create world (exactly the way I want them), and to enjoy the way other players create their characters and their worlds.
r
Well said and understood. I understand and agree. Thanks for the clarification.
Wrong, a game can't survive without income. They don't make us subscribe. They need to generate funds to run it somehow. If that be respec tokens, colored dyes for your clothes, mounts, coasters for your table in your house you don't have yet or maybe never will, that is what it is.
The game won't survive without the free players either. I can care less about them charging for the dyes, special mounts, and special costumes. A respec is a must-have to enjoy the game.
edit:
The appearance of my character has everything to do with my enjoyment of the game. In fact, I wouldnt play the game otherwise.
That's purely cosmetic and its your fault for not making the character what you want it to look like. This is a convenience, not a necessity.
Wrong. No F2P game charges this much for a character respec. Not a single one.
And it's also wrong to charge people real money for a respec at all. Some things should only be covered by the in-game currency(gold).
Star Trek Online (same company): Captain Retrain Token is 500 Zen. 100 Zen less but $5 regardless. So yes, they don't charge "as much" but they charge.
Still disenchanted! No T6 Science for KDF and word is there never will be one!
Wrong. No F2P game charges this much for a character respec. Not a single one.
And it's also wrong to charge people real money for a respec at all. Some things should only be covered by the in-game currency(gold).
Rappelz charges approximately 25 dollars for essentially the same thing, and they aren't even in the CS full time. In fact, I went looking earlier, and if this dialog had been over the previous weekend, I could have linked a screenshot of it in the store, but it's out again now.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Besides, the Neverwinter avatar generator is stunningly beautiful. Very powerful. And useful. Make Neverwinter the go-to place for all avatar needs. Make it a resource for the entire D&D community.
This isn't up for debate. A game can't survive like this. When you make things prohibitively hard to obtain, less and less people go for them. That works well for dungeons, but for a simple respec of your character? It's utterly nonsense.
380 posts say that it *is* up for debate. Although since it's unlikely that Cryptic will change. And contrary to all the doom-saying, games *can* survive like this.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
If it is Beta, it is still in the testing phase. Can't really test much if you are stuck playing one build. However, with that said. You are testing a build and while you may be only testing one path, hundreds of other people are testing the reaming paths. The game isn't in the phase where each player gets to test 100% of the game anymore. Now it is thousands coming together to test %100 of the game.
Or, we could just quit calling it Beta. What is the difference between this day and actual launch? Nothing. Sure they are adding a couple more classes. Don't most MMO's do that down the road after launch? This game is not going to store shelves, it won't be sold on Amazon, it won't make anymore $19, 60 or $200 sales once they shut the packs down. There is no difference between someone downloading the client and playing right now as opposed to the day they decide the game is officially launched.
They have to make money. They have all the normal ways to get things without spending a dime. Trading ingame currency for some other guys purchased currency. The rates may seem steep but that's not really on Cryptic is it? The players set the price of Zen trade and it drops everyday. At launch it was 600+Ad for 1 Zen. Now it is down to 414 last I checked. It will balance eventually. Although that balance may not be lower than now and could always go up.
If they added ingame currency respec I would expect it to be insanely high.
I remember a time when a respec was unheard of. If you didn't like your choices, tough. You had to hope the developers reworked the trees and refunded all you points. I blame damage meters. Everyone wants that one perfect spec so they can feel all happy atop the chart of five people, four of whom they have never met, never will meet, and will most likely not play with again.
Simple. I have no interest in playing the game if I cant determine the appearance and abilities of the character concept.
So it's not changing the story of the game, it's just changing your interest in it, and that somehow is on me not understanding what story telling is. In other words, I have been trolled for what, 5 posts now?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Comments
In my eyes, people who care about their characters are people who want their characters to be properly specced. _YOU_ fail to understand subjectivity. Your standpoint enforces a style of gameplay on me (no respecs without ludicrous cost), while mine enforces nothing on you (you can choose not to respec and not to play with people who respec, even if it is available).
Close. I fail to understand HUMANS who devote themselves to their CREATIONS without being truly devoted. If my Rogue were my child, and he wanted to change his life to make it more enjoyable and prosperous, I'd stand behind him with every fiber of my being.
People who tell me, "Sorry, your Rogue (child) chose to have Downs Syndrome, even though he didn't realize it, just has to deal with it" make me a little queasy.
Should respeccing be easy and free?
Nope. Never said it should.
But I did say that the cost (as I understand it at present) feels prohibitive. If this was an actual child, I'd spend every penny I have to get rid of his bad choices and limits. Hell, I'd give my life for it.
But it's not a child. This isn't real life. And in order to "upgrade" my "child" out of Downs Syndrome, I'm being told to spend my real life money or time (the two most valuable assets I have and ever will).
That's not acceptable.
So I believe you fail to understand the real value of your time and money.
Or, I could be arguing against something that isn't really an issue. I'm going to go log in for a bit and spend some real life time being more sure.
Toodles.
Grind = pay. Time or money, it's still costing.
If you had to pay someone else $50 an hour to grind for you, would you do it?
I guess if I thought my characters were the equivalent of my kids, I'd be pretty mad too. But since I can delete them at any time w/out having the cops banging my door down, I guess I can either pay for my kid to go to school to learn a new trade, or make him work for it. Gee, I guess your analogy falls short on all accounts, eh?
After that, you should grind, pay or play..
Not if you actually read it.
I my first and only character, a L20 Control Wizard, has no problems with “feats”. I want to adjust his physical appearance, with customization that I am now more familiar with. (And I want more fashion items as soon as possible. I really hate the trope of Wizard in robes. Thank the designers he at least has a shave and a hair cut!)
I also want to swap around the powers a bit, now that I know which powers I like, and which I didnt get into - or couldnt use because of lack of slots.
Nothing fancy. I just want the basic featurs to work in a way I like. But the Astral Diamonds are an impossible solution.
If I have to PAY to make basic features work right - like avatar appearance and power options - then it isnt Free-2-Play.
Yeah, having a niece with Downs, I didn't feel like I should take my gaming into something like that. You know, if it's that bad for you, I'll pay for your respec myself, one time. Seriously, I'm disabled and barely get by, but if I felt I'd broken my character bad enough to respec, I'd buy it, or depending on level, start over.
You are grinding by playing the game. There is no reason a respec should cost real money. We already have gold in the game, why can't a respec cost gold instead? People need to respec. We fvck up and make mistakes. Sometimes we don't even like our builds.
This isn't up for debate. A game can't survive like this. When you make things prohibitively hard to obtain, less and less people go for them. That works well for dungeons, but for a simple respec of your character? It's utterly nonsense.
I'm not defending the choices made here, but does your appearance have anything to do with the actual play of the game?
I mean, your avatar could be a simple green circle and how you interact with the interface doesn't change.
Power options... yeah, I'm on your side, but seriously: "I can't play because my avatar is wearing a hula skirt when I want leather chaps!"... not really an argument. I'm just saying.
Also, again.
There arent enough Astral Diamonds at low levels.
Wrong, a game can't survive without income. They don't make us subscribe. They need to generate funds to run it somehow. If that be respec tokens, colored dyes for your clothes, mounts, coasters for your table in your house you don't have yet or maybe never will, that is what it is.
So you didn't actually read and understand what I wrote.
Fair enough. But your sentiment, situation and circumstances are actually irrelevant to my point since you didn't. I feel for your life circumstance, but they don't apply here because for whatever reason you seem to have chosen to focus on the mention of a disability that impacts you, rather than the actual content of what I wrote.
I'm not trying to be mean, and hope that's not how I'm coming across. But the fact is that if you can't/don't/won't understand what is written, your commentary on it isn't valid regardless of your personal circumstances.
An analogy: I don't speak Farsi, but I do know a few words like "American" and "evil."
So me being upset about seeing the two words I understand in a paragraph points to my limitations and says nothing about the actual content of the paragraph.
I hope you understand.
Wrong. No F2P game charges this much for a character respec. Not a single one.
And it's also wrong to charge people real money for a respec at all. Some things should only be covered by the in-game currency(gold).
But now that Cryptic is in bed with Perfect World, it isn't likely to happen. We are not nearly as valued as customers anymore, at least that is how I have felt ever since the merge. I feel like I have a dollar sign floating over my head sometimes when I play a Cryptic game, especially with the addition of the gamble boxes, currency conversion, and all these down-the-black-hole sinks for that currency slapping me in the face at every turn. Sometimes I think it would have been better if they'd just closed their games rather than picking at my wallet like some old hen picking at her chicken feed when it is long past time that she should have been cooked. I love Cryptic games, but they really sold their souls in order to stay afloat. Perfect World is a really bad business.
Along the same lines. The only reason I care about Neverwinter at all is, the foundry provides powerful tools for players to create (and respec!) their own quests. I have only been on two or three player-made quests so far, but I am impressed. (Im still exploring the official worlds.)
For the first time ever, it seems possible to use a digital medium for actual D&D gaming. The DM designs the quests, and the players explore it.
It is necessary to me to create characters (exactly the way I want them), and to create world (exactly the way I want them), and to enjoy the way other players create their characters and their worlds.
r
Well said and understood. I understand and agree. Thanks for the clarification.
edit: That's purely cosmetic and its your fault for not making the character what you want it to look like. This is a convenience, not a necessity.
Star Trek Online (same company): Captain Retrain Token is 500 Zen. 100 Zen less but $5 regardless. So yes, they don't charge "as much" but they charge.
Rappelz charges approximately 25 dollars for essentially the same thing, and they aren't even in the CS full time. In fact, I went looking earlier, and if this dialog had been over the previous weekend, I could have linked a screenshot of it in the store, but it's out again now.
Make it easy to use and reuse.
380 posts say that it *is* up for debate. Although since it's unlikely that Cryptic will change. And contrary to all the doom-saying, games *can* survive like this.
Or, we could just quit calling it Beta. What is the difference between this day and actual launch? Nothing. Sure they are adding a couple more classes. Don't most MMO's do that down the road after launch? This game is not going to store shelves, it won't be sold on Amazon, it won't make anymore $19, 60 or $200 sales once they shut the packs down. There is no difference between someone downloading the client and playing right now as opposed to the day they decide the game is officially launched.
They have to make money. They have all the normal ways to get things without spending a dime. Trading ingame currency for some other guys purchased currency. The rates may seem steep but that's not really on Cryptic is it? The players set the price of Zen trade and it drops everyday. At launch it was 600+Ad for 1 Zen. Now it is down to 414 last I checked. It will balance eventually. Although that balance may not be lower than now and could always go up.
If they added ingame currency respec I would expect it to be insanely high.
I remember a time when a respec was unheard of. If you didn't like your choices, tough. You had to hope the developers reworked the trees and refunded all you points. I blame damage meters. Everyone wants that one perfect spec so they can feel all happy atop the chart of five people, four of whom they have never met, never will meet, and will most likely not play with again.
Yes because they are the ones paying to keep the server up and running sure...
So it's not changing the story of the game, it's just changing your interest in it, and that somehow is on me not understanding what story telling is. In other words, I have been trolled for what, 5 posts now?