Having the Zen shop the only way to respec seems pretty weak in my opinion. I understand they are trying to make money, but come on. Grant characters a respec token every 20 levels, or after a certain amount of XP gained, time spent online, or something. Definitely need a free one at 60, and I hope to god that everyone gets a free respec whenever more Paragon paths are introduced. If not, there will be much crying (and quitting).
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casperinmdMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
No free respec's. Earn it or plan ahead. Simple. It is a FREE game, if you want extra's you pay, that is their model. If you don't like it, play another game or design and sell your own.
You want to hear something even more sad? I went to respec using my scroll I got for the guardian pack and it was GONE! I accidentally vendored it at some point...LMFAO!
Your hero can only respec one option at a time, maybe once a day, maybe paying ingame money to retrain too (using minor magic to alter self). But paying zen lets you do everything you want instantly (using powerful magical rituals).
Prerequisites make this difficult when wanting to change a root option of an option tree. But maybe it is possible to track each option, one at a time, before any change occurs, and then when finally reaching back to the root option, change it all at once.
The Feat respec costing AD I don't really mind, not that hard to get, sure, takes time but meh.
However, that it costs zen to respec in a game like Neverwinter is kind of, well, I don't really like that thought.
Thing is, this is one of those games where you will want to do it a lot, to find what you like, and it's obviously also for that reason they put it in the zen shop.
But, leaving this one thing out of the cash shop wouldn't actually hurt their profit, they have the possibility to make the zen shop into something both the player base is ok with, and they make a profit of.
Pets.
Mounts.
Fashion/Costumes.
Bags.
Warehouse like space.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
And whatever else they have up there.
I have no complaints at all they are there, in fact, I love this stuff, pets are a fun thing to have, combat or non combat.
Fashion/Costume, oh I'm all over this.
Space, who doesn't want more space.
Name changes, I don't frequently change name but it happens.
Appearance change, I'm all over this aswell, I often change my mind on how I want to look.
Releasing a lot more of above stuff will make anyone happy, some don't care how they look of course, but a lot of people do, I dare say a lot more than 70% of the player base cares how they look.
Pets? Out of all games I've played, non combat pets have pretty much been what I see the most of, a lot of people like having these, might not seem like much, but a lot of people still will buy this.
Having respec available for ingame currency AND cash shop is what would make a lot of people happy.
Make it a gold sink, 50-100 gold for a respec or something, just something to throw our gold at, instead of another AD sink.
That's my views on this, make it available in both CS and for in-game currency, preferably gold due we don't have enough gold sinks in the game.
I don't think it's pointless at all - as a matter of fact it may serve a great purpose in enlightening a few people to the fact that anyone playing the game can <earn> ZEN just by playing the game. No one has to spend a dime on this game if they choose not to, just devote some play time to earning AD, sell the AD for ZEN on the exchange and *shazam*, like magic, FREE ZEN!!! If just a few whiners grasp this simple concept then this post will have been worth the minute it took me to type it because it will be that many fewer posts about 'oh why can't we have more sh*t for free'...
Respec is what, 600 zen? 600 zen ~ 270,000 AD. 24,000 per day as a conversion limit, so roughly 11 days of farming for respec. Shazam, like magic - totally free? Lets not even get started about the 2,500,000 AD cost (over 100 days of farming) of a single level 60 chest armor and such. Or the fact that someone still needs to pay cash for that zen.. so essentially the economy works like this - you work for PWE by farming AD for other players.. who pay $1 per two days of your farming work (45,000 AD).. and PWE rewards this by giving you a voucher to buy $1 worth of stuff from the selection of ZEN store. Like magic it goes.
There's only one thing I agree about here - AD = ZEN = AD. The problem is that the in-game AD costs are tuned so high that it's totally unfeasible to just farm AD for your needs.. and this fact is what the whole ZEN-AD economy is based on.
So... no. AD - ZEN conversion doesn't make it 'free', unless you feel couple weeks of farming going *poof* like magic, every time you wanted to try out a different spec.. and someone shelving $6 to cash shop for it, is 'free'.
At max lvl, not when you are leveling. I am lvl 40 and it costs me around 50k AD to respec. I have only 24k Ad and I did the daily quest everyday.
Then you will say, why do you need to respec when leveling? Because I want to, maybe I made mistake when leveling feats, or I want to try another path.
The daily quest is but one way to obtain AD, anywhere from levels 5-60 you can easily farm things to sell on the AH for AD then use the exchange to sell the AD for ZEN. Not to mention leveling Professions, another excellent way to make AD with little effort.
Stop complaining that much there is an internal shop(3rd icon from left to right on the top of your screen) with whom you can buy ZEN using AD. Isn't that hard to get diamonds => ZEN... imagine that 1 ZEN costs 400 AD now 400x500 => 200.000 AD for a respec. Here you go is that simple not even 10 days not to mention that you are limited only at gathering 24.000 ROUGH diamonds/day which doesn't count the items sold on Auction House because they are traded in refined AD directly. SO STOP the complain!
Respec is what, 600 zen? 600 zen ~ 270,000 AD. 24,000 per day as a conversion limit, so roughly 11 days of farming for respec. Shazam, like magic - totally free? Lets not even get started about the 2,500,000 AD cost (over 100 days of farming) of a single level 60 chest armor and such. Or the fact that someone still needs to pay cash for that zen.. so essentially the economy works like this - you work for PWE by farming AD for other players.. who pay $1 per two days of your farming work (45,000 AD).. and PWE rewards this by giving you a voucher to buy $1 worth of stuff from the selection of ZEN store. Like magic it goes.
There's only one thing I agree about here - AD = ZEN = AD. The problem is that the in-game AD costs are tuned so high that it's totally unfeasible to just farm AD for your needs.. and this fact is what the whole ZEN-AD economy is based on.
So... no. AD - ZEN conversion doesn't make it 'free', unless you feel couple weeks of farming going *poof* like magic, every time you wanted to try out a different spec.. and someone shelving $6 to cash shop for it, is 'free'.
1 rank 5 enchant sells for 50-80k AD, if it takes you weeks to kill enough stuff to get enough low level enchants to make a few rank 5's then you're probably doing something wrong....
most mmo's have the first respec for free then you pay for subsequent respec's i think this would be the best way to go as mistakes can be made. For example I accidentley put a couple of points in powers by mistake i would have respecced but it was far to expensive I need that zen for shiny things
There are two times that we should get "Free" respects.
1. When you ding 60. By then you know what play-styles work and what don't
2. When major buff /nerfs of skills occur. Not every time they tweak obviously, but when the power level of skills we grow accustomed to get a significant change to the point where specializing in them is needed.
I also think we should get two sets of loadouts. One for in PvE and one for PvE. Simply because putting points in to things like that reduce aggro or skills that are only effective when you have combat advantage are lackluster in PvP, but almost necessary in PvE.
3) If there is something you WANT you have the OPTION of paying for it. You do not HAVE to pay for it...You do NOT need to pay for it but if you so chose to do so, You can.
You have gotten a great free video game. You are obviously enjoying the heck out of it. You have made it clear that you have no intention and never had any intention of supporting it financially.
There is a difference between needing something and wanting something. You do not need to respec. You want to respec. You do not HAVE to respec. You want to respec without using real money. You can, but it takes a lot longer and is not as easy. You WANT your respecs to be free. They are not.
What is the problem here? What am I missing?
I want my Cleric to use a melee weapon. I want that stupid Javelin replaced with a Spiritual Hammer. Well, we can both want in one hand and sheet in the other. Tell me which one fills up first.
1 rank 5 enchant sells for 50-80k AD, if it takes you weeks to kill enough stuff to get enough low level enchants to make a few rank 5's then you're probably doing something wrong....
You are missing the point here that this 600 ZEN still needs to be bought by someone.. and all the rest is just shuffling in-game 'jobs' to decide who exactly uses it for what in the cash shop. Those 50-80k AD still need to be converted by someone. But really it's a moot argument. I'll just agree to disagree with you, I'm fine with that. The forums right now are way too slow to keep posting anyway.
--- edit ---
I'll admit one thing - the corresponding AD doesn't have to be separate farmed per each conversion to ZEN, because the AD (as well as ZEN, really) can stay in circulation for a long time. ZEN and AD are still basically the same thing, it's no different than convertion dollars to euros, or whatever.. and it creates a kind of disturbing sort of in-game economy where you are essentially able to buy in-game cash with real money, essentially an authorized gold-selling program. The influx of AD from founder program didn't help the situation much either.. it devalued the initial in-game farming (AD) side of the resource system.
The drain for AD to go out of circulation is likely lesser than that for ZEN (since cash shop has more 'desirable' goods), which will likely over time cause faster inflation for AD than ZEN. The result will probably be steady increase in auction house prices (AD), which may end up crashing the ZEN-AD conversion pretty badly (if auction costs reflect level of inflation in AD that the hard-capped transfer rate from ZEN to AD means you'd have to cough up $50 worth of ZEN to buy a rusty dagger from auction, not many people are interested in making the trade). I guess this can make it interesting in a way.
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papi032Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm, sorry. What about when they nerf a talent so bad that you no longer want it? There should be a granted respec for that seeing as i as the player never made any mistakes in my build it's them who changed the feat/power.
I think respec is basic to any current rpg, but this price is inaccessible to such a basic thing. I think it should be free or be purchased in gold / AD / Daily Quests.
At least 3 free respecs are accurate.
Two selections of talents, as in wow is a good choice too.
You are missing the point here that this 600 ZEN still needs to be bought by someone.. and all the rest is just shuffling in-game 'jobs' to decide who exactly uses it for what in the cash shop. Those 50-80k AD still need to be converted by someone. But really it's a moot argument. I'll just agree to disagree with you, I'm fine with that. The forums right now are way too slow to keep posting anyway.
I get your point that the ZEN still needs to be purchased by someone to be traded for AD, and likely that will be done by someone who chose to financially support the game to begin with - costs a little bit of money to run a game like this u know? But there were plenty of people that started 04-25 and 04-27 that love the game and have expendable income so there will be no ZEN shortage. Playing the game is free, farming stuff to sell is free, trading AD for ZEN is free. The complaints in this thread are really about 'I'm too fu**in lazy to go get what I want so you should just give it to me or I'll cry and ragequit' - to anyone who falls into that category I say 'good riddance', one less lazy whiner in the ranks.
I'm, sorry. What about when they nerf a talent so bad that you no longer want it? There should be a granted respec for that seeing as i as the player never made any mistakes in my build it's them who changed the feat/power.
Good thing you can respec talents with just diamonds.
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emorelixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
Given that respecing is a luxury it makes perfect sense to charge $$ for it.
There is no real reason to need to respect more than maybe once every 3 - 12 months. If your doing it more often then its just a convenience and play style. It really isn't a requirement to play.
um. the serious gamers are talking here, may wanna step outside befyour you lose ur face
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papi032Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Good thing you can respec talents with just diamonds.
I shouldn't be charged something i earned for something they changed. I picked my feats and powers based on what they did at the given time. When they change a power and if i don't want the nerfed power anymore i should be given the points out of the power back if not all of them instead of me suffering the cost.
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warmachine104Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
If Im right, his token respec everything, not just powers.
What if I want to respec just & only powers & better one by one?
Does LoL need to sell respecs? Sell builds instead, that will allow ppl to make different builds & switch between them.
Two selections of talents, as in wow is a good choice too.
I expect to see that implemented here. For Zen.
It only took WoW...let me see here...6 Years before it put Dual Spec into the game?...so minimum 5 Years after launch...10 Million Players...@ $15.00 bucks a month...average a year of $1,800,000,000.00 X 5 Years would be $9,000,000,000.00 before they got Dual Specs into the game...
Huh...wow...and that does not even include the $49.99 for the Game itself...wow you start looking at those numbers and you start feeling ripped off huh? And those are just approximately half of WOW's life cycle. With the money they were making it seems down right insulting they would have you pay for Server Transfers or even have the audacity to sell you Expansion packs for an additional $49-$49.00...or charge you for name changes...etc.
You guys are right. This is total BS why this game I got for free. does not have Dual Specs, for Free a week into open beta! With free respeec'n cause I like to Respec about twelve times a day.
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emorelixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
the point of a talent tree as an INGAME MECHANIC is for ppl to theory craft and try new things, NOT TO BE PUNISHED WITH A FEE EVERYTIME THEY PLAY THE GAME.
may as well add a subscription if they want people to take teh game seriously, with this rediculous cost.
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emorelixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
It only took WoW...let me see here...6 Years before it put Dual Spec into the game?...so minimum 5 Years after launch...10 Million Players...@ $15.00 bucks a month...average a year of $1,800,000,000.00 X 5 Years would be $9,000,000,000.00 before they got Dual Specs into the game...
Huh...wow...and that does not even include the $49.99 for the Game itself...wow you start looking at those numbers and you start feeling ripped off huh? And those are just approximately half of WOW's life cycle. With the money they were making it seems down right insulting they would have you pay for Server Transfers or even have the audacity to sell you Expansion packs for an additional $49-$49.00...or charge you for name changes...etc.
You guys are right. This is total BS why this game I got for free. does not have Dual Specs, for Free a week into open beta! With free respeec'n cause I like to Respec about twelve times a day.
the point people are trying to make, mr troll, is that respec's should be under ingame currency, like the feat tree, intead of ZEN
At first I thought it was a bit steep but two factors are changing my mind:
1. It respecs EVERYTHING. It respecs your Powers, Feats and Attributes. I just tested this on my Guardian. At rank 60, your Feats costs 150,000 to respec alone. That's a lot of added value to the respec token.
2. The prices of Zen/Diamonds is dropping pretty rapidly. A week ago Zen was around 600 Diamonds per and today it's below 400. If the prices continue to drop that means if it reaches the 250 point it will be the same price as just respeccing your Feats. I will note that traditionally however prices paid for with RL money go up over time and not down as less people are paying into the game after 4-6 months and it becomes more rare while Diamonds become more common.
The fact that it respecs everything is kinda what sold me on it. I wouldn't argue about seeing it's price lowered or make the 150k Diamonds respec everything and not just feats.
My only real concern at this stage is long term after balance changes. If they nerf a deep ability or feat or otherwise and you want to spec another route you're kinda boned if you don't have the hot new abilities for that build.
the point people are trying to make, mr troll, is that respec's should be under ingame currency, like the feat tree, intead of ZEN
You can use in game currency to get Zen hence get anything you want for "Free". Is this not true? I have seen a dozen posts explaining exactly how to do this and how it shouldn't take more than a week or so..
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I notice, most corporations dont understand D&D fans.
In the game of D&D, the whole purpose of the game is character customization. (And world-building.) Unlike MMOs, you can customize in D&D - EXACTLY the way you want it.
Comments
I don't agree about a respect for free. But I firmly believe a lot of the zen features should be an AD cost for HotNs.
Your hero can only respec one option at a time, maybe once a day, maybe paying ingame money to retrain too (using minor magic to alter self). But paying zen lets you do everything you want instantly (using powerful magical rituals).
Prerequisites make this difficult when wanting to change a root option of an option tree. But maybe it is possible to track each option, one at a time, before any change occurs, and then when finally reaching back to the root option, change it all at once.
The Feat respec costing AD I don't really mind, not that hard to get, sure, takes time but meh.
However, that it costs zen to respec in a game like Neverwinter is kind of, well, I don't really like that thought.
Thing is, this is one of those games where you will want to do it a lot, to find what you like, and it's obviously also for that reason they put it in the zen shop.
But, leaving this one thing out of the cash shop wouldn't actually hurt their profit, they have the possibility to make the zen shop into something both the player base is ok with, and they make a profit of.
Pets.
Mounts.
Fashion/Costumes.
Bags.
Warehouse like space.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
And whatever else they have up there.
I have no complaints at all they are there, in fact, I love this stuff, pets are a fun thing to have, combat or non combat.
Fashion/Costume, oh I'm all over this.
Space, who doesn't want more space.
Name changes, I don't frequently change name but it happens.
Appearance change, I'm all over this aswell, I often change my mind on how I want to look.
Releasing a lot more of above stuff will make anyone happy, some don't care how they look of course, but a lot of people do, I dare say a lot more than 70% of the player base cares how they look.
Pets? Out of all games I've played, non combat pets have pretty much been what I see the most of, a lot of people like having these, might not seem like much, but a lot of people still will buy this.
Having respec available for ingame currency AND cash shop is what would make a lot of people happy.
Make it a gold sink, 50-100 gold for a respec or something, just something to throw our gold at, instead of another AD sink.
That's my views on this, make it available in both CS and for in-game currency, preferably gold due we don't have enough gold sinks in the game.
Respec is what, 600 zen? 600 zen ~ 270,000 AD. 24,000 per day as a conversion limit, so roughly 11 days of farming for respec. Shazam, like magic - totally free? Lets not even get started about the 2,500,000 AD cost (over 100 days of farming) of a single level 60 chest armor and such. Or the fact that someone still needs to pay cash for that zen.. so essentially the economy works like this - you work for PWE by farming AD for other players.. who pay $1 per two days of your farming work (45,000 AD).. and PWE rewards this by giving you a voucher to buy $1 worth of stuff from the selection of ZEN store. Like magic it goes.
There's only one thing I agree about here - AD = ZEN = AD. The problem is that the in-game AD costs are tuned so high that it's totally unfeasible to just farm AD for your needs.. and this fact is what the whole ZEN-AD economy is based on.
So... no. AD - ZEN conversion doesn't make it 'free', unless you feel couple weeks of farming going *poof* like magic, every time you wanted to try out a different spec.. and someone shelving $6 to cash shop for it, is 'free'.
The daily quest is but one way to obtain AD, anywhere from levels 5-60 you can easily farm things to sell on the AH for AD then use the exchange to sell the AD for ZEN. Not to mention leveling Professions, another excellent way to make AD with little effort.
1 rank 5 enchant sells for 50-80k AD, if it takes you weeks to kill enough stuff to get enough low level enchants to make a few rank 5's then you're probably doing something wrong....
1. When you ding 60. By then you know what play-styles work and what don't
2. When major buff /nerfs of skills occur. Not every time they tweak obviously, but when the power level of skills we grow accustomed to get a significant change to the point where specializing in them is needed.
I also think we should get two sets of loadouts. One for in PvE and one for PvE. Simply because putting points in to things like that reduce aggro or skills that are only effective when you have combat advantage are lackluster in PvP, but almost necessary in PvE.
I am almost lvl 60 and I enjoyed the whole game.
But then I came across this reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1dry0g/neverwinters_f2p_model_what_you_need_to_know/
and if you read point nr. 7 - u know there is a bigger problem then the respeccing.
If you - perfect world - dont change this, many PvP players will leave. No one will pay 160 bucks for an enchant. Pls fix it. Thanks
2) You do not need to pay for ANYTHING.
3) If there is something you WANT you have the OPTION of paying for it. You do not HAVE to pay for it...You do NOT need to pay for it but if you so chose to do so, You can.
You have gotten a great free video game. You are obviously enjoying the heck out of it. You have made it clear that you have no intention and never had any intention of supporting it financially.
There is a difference between needing something and wanting something. You do not need to respec. You want to respec. You do not HAVE to respec. You want to respec without using real money. You can, but it takes a lot longer and is not as easy. You WANT your respecs to be free. They are not.
What is the problem here? What am I missing?
I want my Cleric to use a melee weapon. I want that stupid Javelin replaced with a Spiritual Hammer. Well, we can both want in one hand and sheet in the other. Tell me which one fills up first.
You are missing the point here that this 600 ZEN still needs to be bought by someone.. and all the rest is just shuffling in-game 'jobs' to decide who exactly uses it for what in the cash shop. Those 50-80k AD still need to be converted by someone. But really it's a moot argument. I'll just agree to disagree with you, I'm fine with that. The forums right now are way too slow to keep posting anyway.
--- edit ---
I'll admit one thing - the corresponding AD doesn't have to be separate farmed per each conversion to ZEN, because the AD (as well as ZEN, really) can stay in circulation for a long time. ZEN and AD are still basically the same thing, it's no different than convertion dollars to euros, or whatever.. and it creates a kind of disturbing sort of in-game economy where you are essentially able to buy in-game cash with real money, essentially an authorized gold-selling program. The influx of AD from founder program didn't help the situation much either.. it devalued the initial in-game farming (AD) side of the resource system.
The drain for AD to go out of circulation is likely lesser than that for ZEN (since cash shop has more 'desirable' goods), which will likely over time cause faster inflation for AD than ZEN. The result will probably be steady increase in auction house prices (AD), which may end up crashing the ZEN-AD conversion pretty badly (if auction costs reflect level of inflation in AD that the hard-capped transfer rate from ZEN to AD means you'd have to cough up $50 worth of ZEN to buy a rusty dagger from auction, not many people are interested in making the trade). I guess this can make it interesting in a way.
At least 3 free respecs are accurate.
Two selections of talents, as in wow is a good choice too.
I get your point that the ZEN still needs to be purchased by someone to be traded for AD, and likely that will be done by someone who chose to financially support the game to begin with - costs a little bit of money to run a game like this u know? But there were plenty of people that started 04-25 and 04-27 that love the game and have expendable income so there will be no ZEN shortage. Playing the game is free, farming stuff to sell is free, trading AD for ZEN is free. The complaints in this thread are really about 'I'm too fu**in lazy to go get what I want so you should just give it to me or I'll cry and ragequit' - to anyone who falls into that category I say 'good riddance', one less lazy whiner in the ranks.
Good thing you can respec talents with just diamonds.
um. the serious gamers are talking here, may wanna step outside befyour you lose ur face
I shouldn't be charged something i earned for something they changed. I picked my feats and powers based on what they did at the given time. When they change a power and if i don't want the nerfed power anymore i should be given the points out of the power back if not all of them instead of me suffering the cost.
What if I want to respec just & only powers & better one by one?
Does LoL need to sell respecs? Sell builds instead, that will allow ppl to make different builds & switch between them.
I expect to see that implemented here. For Zen.
It only took WoW...let me see here...6 Years before it put Dual Spec into the game?...so minimum 5 Years after launch...10 Million Players...@ $15.00 bucks a month...average a year of $1,800,000,000.00 X 5 Years would be $9,000,000,000.00 before they got Dual Specs into the game...
Huh...wow...and that does not even include the $49.99 for the Game itself...wow you start looking at those numbers and you start feeling ripped off huh? And those are just approximately half of WOW's life cycle. With the money they were making it seems down right insulting they would have you pay for Server Transfers or even have the audacity to sell you Expansion packs for an additional $49-$49.00...or charge you for name changes...etc.
You guys are right. This is total BS why this game I got for free. does not have Dual Specs, for Free a week into open beta! With free respeec'n cause I like to Respec about twelve times a day.
may as well add a subscription if they want people to take teh game seriously, with this rediculous cost.
the point people are trying to make, mr troll, is that respec's should be under ingame currency, like the feat tree, intead of ZEN
1. It respecs EVERYTHING. It respecs your Powers, Feats and Attributes. I just tested this on my Guardian. At rank 60, your Feats costs 150,000 to respec alone. That's a lot of added value to the respec token.
2. The prices of Zen/Diamonds is dropping pretty rapidly. A week ago Zen was around 600 Diamonds per and today it's below 400. If the prices continue to drop that means if it reaches the 250 point it will be the same price as just respeccing your Feats. I will note that traditionally however prices paid for with RL money go up over time and not down as less people are paying into the game after 4-6 months and it becomes more rare while Diamonds become more common.
The fact that it respecs everything is kinda what sold me on it. I wouldn't argue about seeing it's price lowered or make the 150k Diamonds respec everything and not just feats.
My only real concern at this stage is long term after balance changes. If they nerf a deep ability or feat or otherwise and you want to spec another route you're kinda boned if you don't have the hot new abilities for that build.
You can use in game currency to get Zen hence get anything you want for "Free". Is this not true? I have seen a dozen posts explaining exactly how to do this and how it shouldn't take more than a week or so..
Oy. Exchange rate is capped at 500.
In the game of D&D, the whole purpose of the game is character customization. (And world-building.) Unlike MMOs, you can customize in D&D - EXACTLY the way you want it.