If you think mindlessly grinding is fun, then you're playing the wrong game! D&D has always been about story telling.
D&D has always been about whatever the players playing it make it about. I have played campaigns over the years that were complete hack & slash with almost no story...just a loot pinata. I have played rich story campaigns, that had almost zero magic. Both were fun and both were D&D.
Ill break it down for you (TL,DR), if you are telling someone else how to enjoy D&D, YOUR doing it wrong, and YOUR the issue. as long as the people involved are having fun and are entertained, then it is a win.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yep, already talk in guild chat about quitting once they finish the main content. The foundry was going to be an unending amount of guild content for us and it was killed in one blow.
Yes, this is why it's a big problem for the game.
If the Foundry only appeals to a small niche community of roleplayers, it will not be a significant factor in Neverwinter's staying power. The Foundry could be a nearly infinite supply of interesting and rewarding content to keep players engaged without needing a grindy end-game like other MMOs. But with rewards nerfed to oblivion, that won't happen.
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buffdrinklotzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Balance is key to an MMO and ultimately there is a fine line that devs must walk in regards to balance--and everything else be damned--having players powerlevel via the foundry throws off that balance. What I think they are doing here is giving themselves some breathing room. They are temporarily putting a stop to the farming and have thus restored balance, whilst they tackle major bugs. At some point in the near future I'm sure they will have the resources to focus back on this and address the balance-skewing-farming w/o completely removing xp/items.
Plus, I don't see why the drops were reduced. Not only why so drastically, but why they were lowered at all.
See, you seem like you were playing a balanced game. I was referring to people who said there would be zero reason to play any Foundry quests without all the item drops. As I noted, I do think there should be items dropped in the quests. If removing them was an intended change, I'm not sure why it was done, either, but maybe it went father in the other direction than was intended. If so, we can hope for another adjustment in the next patch.
i didn't mean mindless grinding no, but even if i had, what's the problem?
The difference between me and you is that i don't need a wall of text telling me how many of this and that i should kill, because that's what questing is about.
Hell i don't even read the text, follow the shiny path, kill, go back= reward.....that's mindless grinding too mate.
This this this. People, stop seeing things in black and white. There isn't a "them" and "us". There are NW players, and that's it (note that I'm not talking about exploiting... that's obviously over the line).
I actually agree that things are not black and white. That is obviously both an oversimplification and overreaction to the situation. But so is saying that this update killed the Foundry, that people are leaving, that the game is over. The update has been live for how long? Has there even been a response from the devs yet? Before we start burning down the place, let's see if this was the result they intended.
Balance is key to an MMO and ultimately there is a fine line that devs must walk in regards to balance--and everything else be damned--having players powerlevel via the foundry throws off that balance. What I think they are doing here is giving themselves some breathing room. They are temporarily putting a stop to the farming and have thus restored balance, whilst they tackle major bugs. At some point in the near future I'm sure they will have the resources to focus back on this and address the balance-skewing-farming w/o completely removing xp/items.
Umm, if the goal was to stop powerleveling please explain how cutting off almost all gold/item drops came into it? Any explanation can be easily refuted with these words....place a cap per foundry mission at x amount per player in the mission. As is, cost is greater than the reward 100% of the time.
So the question now becomes, how many players quit before its fixed and how many people do not take up creating foundry quests that would have, thus lowering the amount of future content being created now, and quality content being created in the future.
Either way, it damages the future of the game just to keep SOME people from hitting level 60 in less than a few days inside the foundry, instead of OUTSIDE it which is still possible. lol...stupid nerf is stupid when all it needed was an XP nerf.
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buffdrinklotzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Umm, if the goal was to stop powerleveling please explain how cutting off almost all gold/item drops came into it?
Please provide the quest name you played before and after the update. Also, please provide the gold/item drops you got in both cases. If you cannot do so, then you're just throwing around unsupported claims like "cutting off almost all gold/item drops."
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egoboostedMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Previous to this I have suggested this game to everyone.
Now....wait for x or y game. I won't state them here but there's no reason to invest ANY more time or money into a game that does these kinds of changes without testing.
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sandolphanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 25Arc User
"last night got on average around 6-10 greens and scrolls and potions and just now got 2 items"
not me, someone I know from another community.
Right. We're talking averages here, and friends of friends.
Listen, the reason I'm skeptical of the nerf claim (beyond Cryptic saying nothing about it and my own experience showing nothing of the sort), is because it's far, FAR too easy for a random stranger on a forum like this to post an unfounded claim and have ravening hordes complaining along with him in seconds, no matter how true or false the original claim is. There is nothing to get upset about until we have some hard facts. Until then, complaining seems somewhat rushed.
The same thing happened at the STO forums. Somebody rushed to play a foundry mission, got less than the rewards they thought that they deserved, and ranted about it.
A dev had to confirm that there wasn't a change to the loot drops. The drops (at least in STO's foundry) are somewhat random, usually based on boss mobs. Boss mobs drop the best stuff.
I just ran through my own map again (Its a good test as I have run it alot recently bug testing) I did not notice a significant drop in item droprate at all, I still have several green items including crafting materials and pleanty of scrolls/portals/pots etc
I did notice a pretty steep xp nerf though It didn't even give me a level of xp, but it was still enough for 30 minutes work, I don't think it will cause any long term issues at all.
Foundry quest NW-DKCR8S6GH
Trouble at "The Rock" please play and review if you have the time, thanks
Killing ogre savages one at a time, once every 2 minutes, will result in no XP and no loot after a couple of kills.
You can't use the Foundry for regular XP grinding now. If you want to hit level 60 at a decent pace, you have to slog through annoying short stories about some evil such-and-such, listen to terrible voice acting, and watch unskippable cutscenes.
You can't use the Foundry for regular XP grinding now. If you want to hit level 60 at a decent pace, you have to slog through annoying short stories about some evil such-and-such, listen to terrible voice acting, and watch unskippable cutscenes.
You can't play the main game until you hit level 60 by slogging through annoying short stories about some evil such-and-such, listen to terrible voice acting, and watch unskippable cutscenes.
Hey, look, I can be a smartass, too
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zaerethMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Personally I want to enjoy the stories in foundry, but I dont want to feel like Im wasting time I could be using to progress my character via xp/loot. All I want is comparable drops/xp for foundry quests that we see in open zones. If farm zones arent to be permitted then let the community flag them and remove them as such until the author revises.
When you go into a foundry quest you dont know what you'll find. It could be full of bugs, encounters can be poorly tuned, it can be too long, or two short, or with sections that arent even in your language. You essentially risk your playtime to try out this user generated content which is a really nice concept. This "nerf" however strikes at the very heart of the foundry.
There is nothing wrong with writing a great story, having really challenging encounters and then being rewarded properly, with both a good story AND character progression. It's the basic concept of storytelling in both mmos and pen and paper and it's suddenly lacking from foundry.
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mrgobgob34Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Thank you everyone for the replies, I am glad I am not the only one noticing this problem.
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isakongmingMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Please provide the quest name you played before and after the update. Also, please provide the gold/item drops you got in both cases. If you cannot do so, then you're just throwing around unsupported claims like "cutting off almost all gold/item drops."
Please provide the quest name you played before and after the update that has the same amount of gold/loot drops. If you cannot do so, I will take the word of 100s of other people, like myself that are seeing different and toss you up as just another person that doesn't play the foundry at all and is trolling.
Please provide the quest name you played before and after the update that has the same amount of gold/loot drops. If you cannot do so, I will take the word of 100s of other people, like myself that are seeing different and toss you up as just another person that doesn't play the foundry at all and is trolling.
I have seen no evidence to prove that normal Foundry content is at all "nerfed". Sure, the XP farms are probably nerfed to hell and back, and good fricking riddance! What some of us are trying to tell you is that we're seeing no such thing in ordinary Foundry quests so far. The experiences in that thread are very unspecific about which quests they were playing. In fact, the two pages I bothered to read contain no quest names whatsoever, which tells me that the people writing have either not seen this nerf in action themselves, or don't want to reveal that they've been playing XP farms.
Let's all take a step back, play a few ordinary (not XP farms) Foundry quests, and see what happens. Raising pitchforks and shouting bloody murder over something random people in a F2P game claim to be true is... well... naive I guess.
Edit: Since you asked about quest names, I just played From Dusk til Dawn and got normal loot in it. Your turn to name a quest you've seen the nerf in.
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buffdrinklotzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
I just ran through my own map again (Its a good test as I have run it alot recently bug testing) I did not notice a significant drop in item droprate at all, I still have several green items including crafting materials and pleanty of scrolls/portals/pots etc
Thank you for this hosierman.
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isakongmingMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
I have seen no evidence to prove that normal Foundry content is at all "nerfed". Sure, the XP farms are probably nerfed to hell and back, and good fricking riddance! What some of us are trying to tell you is that we're seeing no such thing in ordinary Foundry quests so far. The experiences in that thread are very unspecific about which quests they were playing. In fact, the two pages I bothered to read contain no quest names whatsoever, which tells me that the people writing have either not seen this nerf in action themselves, or don't want to reveal that they've been playing XP farms.
Let's all take a step back, play a few ordinary (not XP farms) Foundry quests, and see what happens. Raising pitchforks and shouting bloody murder over something random people in a F2P game claim to be true is... well... naive I guess.
Oh wait, do you think they went in and changed each individual foundry quest? come on...lol...and what would happen with NEW foundry quests created today? Did you even think about that before posting? It was the loot tables for foundry mobs that were changed.
So yeah, step back...and think about it for a minute.
P.S. Stop placing everyone into a tiny little box.
I clearly know plenty about non-farming foundry content.
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ellindar1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Honestly, in my own quest I notice no real difference at all. I have a feeling this is directly related to farming quests with the one room and 100 mobs lol. Which as someone already said... Good riddance. I'm here to play d&d. If this helps whittle down the players so that what's left are those trying to find real quests on the foundry then I am all for it.
Oh wait, do you think they went in and changed each individual foundry quest?
No, but I certainly think you're being way, way too narrow in how you approach this. From what other reports I've seen, it seems killing the same monsters over and over again results in vastly diminishing returns. This won't affect normal quests, so there's no reason for Cryptic to do it manually, but it most certainly affects XP farms.
Would you please start taking me seriously in this discussion? I used to run my own game company, I program for a living, and I'm the author of the highest rated quest/campaign in the game at the moment. I'd think at least one of those might give me something to back up my words with.
Hey guys here's this tab of XP foundry missions for massive leveling or silly storyline to get in your way of hitting level 60 in 12 minutes.
Yeah that sounds healthy for the game.
They need to focus a lot more on providing more tools and ways to keep foundry missions fair. "XP Foundry" missions are horrible for the health of the game.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
No, but I certainly think you're being way, way too narrow in how you approach this. From what other reports I've seen, it seems killing the same monsters over and over again results in vastly diminishing returns. This won't affect normal quests
Blood and Sand got banned. Next?
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zovyaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I put a difficulty slider in my quest. You can play easy mode, regular, or really hard. So if you're into story, fine. Or xp and lockboxes, also fine.
Reading this though. I'm thinking of adding an additional setting: OGRE APOCALYPSE. sweet.
Comments
D&D has always been about whatever the players playing it make it about. I have played campaigns over the years that were complete hack & slash with almost no story...just a loot pinata. I have played rich story campaigns, that had almost zero magic. Both were fun and both were D&D.
Ill break it down for you (TL,DR), if you are telling someone else how to enjoy D&D, YOUR doing it wrong, and YOUR the issue. as long as the people involved are having fun and are entertained, then it is a win.
Yes, this is why it's a big problem for the game.
If the Foundry only appeals to a small niche community of roleplayers, it will not be a significant factor in Neverwinter's staying power. The Foundry could be a nearly infinite supply of interesting and rewarding content to keep players engaged without needing a grindy end-game like other MMOs. But with rewards nerfed to oblivion, that won't happen.
See, you seem like you were playing a balanced game. I was referring to people who said there would be zero reason to play any Foundry quests without all the item drops. As I noted, I do think there should be items dropped in the quests. If removing them was an intended change, I'm not sure why it was done, either, but maybe it went father in the other direction than was intended. If so, we can hope for another adjustment in the next patch.
The difference between me and you is that i don't need a wall of text telling me how many of this and that i should kill, because that's what questing is about.
Hell i don't even read the text, follow the shiny path, kill, go back= reward.....that's mindless grinding too mate.
I actually agree that things are not black and white. That is obviously both an oversimplification and overreaction to the situation. But so is saying that this update killed the Foundry, that people are leaving, that the game is over. The update has been live for how long? Has there even been a response from the devs yet? Before we start burning down the place, let's see if this was the result they intended.
Umm, if the goal was to stop powerleveling please explain how cutting off almost all gold/item drops came into it? Any explanation can be easily refuted with these words....place a cap per foundry mission at x amount per player in the mission. As is, cost is greater than the reward 100% of the time.
So the question now becomes, how many players quit before its fixed and how many people do not take up creating foundry quests that would have, thus lowering the amount of future content being created now, and quality content being created in the future.
Either way, it damages the future of the game just to keep SOME people from hitting level 60 in less than a few days inside the foundry, instead of OUTSIDE it which is still possible. lol...stupid nerf is stupid when all it needed was an XP nerf.
Please provide the quest name you played before and after the update. Also, please provide the gold/item drops you got in both cases. If you cannot do so, then you're just throwing around unsupported claims like "cutting off almost all gold/item drops."
Now....wait for x or y game. I won't state them here but there's no reason to invest ANY more time or money into a game that does these kinds of changes without testing.
Totally agree
not me, someone I know from another community.
Right. We're talking averages here, and friends of friends.
Listen, the reason I'm skeptical of the nerf claim (beyond Cryptic saying nothing about it and my own experience showing nothing of the sort), is because it's far, FAR too easy for a random stranger on a forum like this to post an unfounded claim and have ravening hordes complaining along with him in seconds, no matter how true or false the original claim is. There is nothing to get upset about until we have some hard facts. Until then, complaining seems somewhat rushed.
A dev had to confirm that there wasn't a change to the loot drops. The drops (at least in STO's foundry) are somewhat random, usually based on boss mobs. Boss mobs drop the best stuff.
People should test it.
I did notice a pretty steep xp nerf though It didn't even give me a level of xp, but it was still enough for 30 minutes work, I don't think it will cause any long term issues at all.
Trouble at "The Rock" please play and review if you have the time, thanks
You can't use the Foundry for regular XP grinding now. If you want to hit level 60 at a decent pace, you have to slog through annoying short stories about some evil such-and-such, listen to terrible voice acting, and watch unskippable cutscenes.
You mean you have to play the main game?
You can't play the main game until you hit level 60 by slogging through annoying short stories about some evil such-and-such, listen to terrible voice acting, and watch unskippable cutscenes.
Hey, look, I can be a smartass, too
When you go into a foundry quest you dont know what you'll find. It could be full of bugs, encounters can be poorly tuned, it can be too long, or two short, or with sections that arent even in your language. You essentially risk your playtime to try out this user generated content which is a really nice concept. This "nerf" however strikes at the very heart of the foundry.
There is nothing wrong with writing a great story, having really challenging encounters and then being rewarded properly, with both a good story AND character progression. It's the basic concept of storytelling in both mmos and pen and paper and it's suddenly lacking from foundry.
Please provide the quest name you played before and after the update that has the same amount of gold/loot drops. If you cannot do so, I will take the word of 100s of other people, like myself that are seeing different and toss you up as just another person that doesn't play the foundry at all and is trolling.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?204272-Foundry-Missions-took-a-hammering
I have seen no evidence to prove that normal Foundry content is at all "nerfed". Sure, the XP farms are probably nerfed to hell and back, and good fricking riddance! What some of us are trying to tell you is that we're seeing no such thing in ordinary Foundry quests so far. The experiences in that thread are very unspecific about which quests they were playing. In fact, the two pages I bothered to read contain no quest names whatsoever, which tells me that the people writing have either not seen this nerf in action themselves, or don't want to reveal that they've been playing XP farms.
Let's all take a step back, play a few ordinary (not XP farms) Foundry quests, and see what happens. Raising pitchforks and shouting bloody murder over something random people in a F2P game claim to be true is... well... naive I guess.
Edit: Since you asked about quest names, I just played From Dusk til Dawn and got normal loot in it. Your turn to name a quest you've seen the nerf in.
Thank you for this hosierman.
Oh wait, do you think they went in and changed each individual foundry quest? come on...lol...and what would happen with NEW foundry quests created today? Did you even think about that before posting? It was the loot tables for foundry mobs that were changed.
So yeah, step back...and think about it for a minute.
P.S. Stop placing everyone into a tiny little box.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?204891-Blood-and-sand-Unchained-banned-from-foundry
I clearly know plenty about non-farming foundry content.
No, but I certainly think you're being way, way too narrow in how you approach this. From what other reports I've seen, it seems killing the same monsters over and over again results in vastly diminishing returns. This won't affect normal quests, so there's no reason for Cryptic to do it manually, but it most certainly affects XP farms.
Would you please start taking me seriously in this discussion? I used to run my own game company, I program for a living, and I'm the author of the highest rated quest/campaign in the game at the moment. I'd think at least one of those might give me something to back up my words with.
Hey guys here's this tab of XP foundry missions for massive leveling or silly storyline to get in your way of hitting level 60 in 12 minutes.
Yeah that sounds healthy for the game.
They need to focus a lot more on providing more tools and ways to keep foundry missions fair. "XP Foundry" missions are horrible for the health of the game.
Reading this though. I'm thinking of adding an additional setting: OGRE APOCALYPSE. sweet.