What has that got to do with the discussion? We're talking about a supposed nerf of item drops. Discuss the banning in the other thread and stay on topic.
Btw: I sympathize. That ban sucks.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
They are banning farm quests as fast as they find them as part of this process.
As I said, what has this got to do with the discussion? We're not talking about banning. We're talking about item drop nerfs.
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baconnaiseMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
I figured they went in and just killed the whole system. This is horrible. I'm torn about this game now as the big sticker is the foundry system for me. If I can't level my alts via foundry grinding I might seek a charge back. This game loses a huge replay value for me if I can't alt it up. I really only do the quests sparingly on them till the neverdeath graveyard for the last bag then just grind it out. I'm regretting getting the 60 founders and the extra zen now as the chargeback process is another chore.
Please change it back. If it doesn't change then I guess I have to move on .
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zovyaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
For the record. Blood and Sand: Unchained isn't a farm quest, unless there have been drastic changes since I played it. I think he had issues with copyrighted names from the Spartacus TV series. That was the author's guess however.
I'm playing the Foundry quest "The Sins of the Father" as I'm typing this, and quite a bit into it I'm still getting item drops on every single encounter. Remind me what this nerf was about again.
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mrgobgob34Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Your clearly missing the point some people are making. For me foundry's are not exciting, so i play them for the sole purpose of getting potions/identify scrolls, and maybe the possibility of green/blues (low chance). What they did was eliminate that possibility, which is a large majority of the foundry participants. If I wanted to play a long quest, that my friend made, by all means i'll play it, but if i want to just prepare for a Dungeon run, without having to use god knows how many potions to just do it, then that should be an option aswell. XP farming needs to stay removed, but cheap item farming needs to come back, period. If it does not, foundry will allmost never be played.
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agrippa10Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
While I welcome the nerf, I would love it, if normal Foundry content was a viable alternative to levelling in comparison to doing the official quests. Right now, if I want to level without exploits, there is just no alternative to doing the same content every single time.
It was once announced that it would be possible to level entirely via Foundry content, it would be nice, if that actually was an option without having the feeling of gimping yourself.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
Just went through the Bloodshed Saga Book 1 quest, which I had done a few times before, and I got one green. Zero scrolls, zero potions, and noticeably less coppers. Not sure what modules people are playing, but for me the severe reduction in drops is consistent across quests.
Just went through the Bloodshed Saga Book 1 quest, which I had done a few times before, and I got one green. Zero scrolls, zero potions, and noticeably less coppers. Not sure what modules people are playing, but for me the severe reduction in drops is consistent across quests.
Just went through the Bloodshed Saga Book 1 quest, which I had done a few times before, and I got one green. Zero scrolls, zero potions, and noticeably less coppers. Not sure what modules people are playing, but for me the severe reduction in drops is consistent across quests.
I'm wondering if maybe the bolded part is important here.
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zovyaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
For what it's worth. This is what a dev said about the Foundry XP nerf.
dezstravus: This is specifically related to unique scenarios where it was possible to gain more experience than intended. Shouldn't affect normal Foundry missions.
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hanumantmkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Thinking maybe diminishing returns for running the same quest more than X times in a time period Y?
That might actually be a good thing, encourage folk to try something they haven't played before. If it's true it'd be nice to know what the rotation was like though.
Then I'm sorry to say that you're not the target audience for the Foundry. It was never intended to be a grinding tool.
I think this right here is the crux of the whole problem. The "target audience" should have been "all players in all playstyles". Cryptic should have been aware this would happen and had a plan at the outset to allow everyone to enjoy the game. There are PnP groups that sit and do nothing but "roll"play all night with lots of combat and loot. There are groups that sit and tell stories all night. Both groups use the same toolkit, the RPG. Here we are with an RPG, an awesome toolkit and rather than playing with it and having fun we are yelling across the aisle at everyone else who is playing with it about how they are doing it wrong.
GROW THE HELL UP PEOPLE!
Yes, Cryptic this is a GIANT FUBAR and may kill your game before you ever call it "launched". It certainly killed CoX when the developers told the players how they had to play. It has consistently been the loss of players of EVERY MMO when the players are told they have to play a certain way. This game hasn't even launched, if they plan to recoup even 10% of their development costs they need to hurry up and un-Fu%& themselves and the Foundry.
Yes, ban exploiters. Yes patch so there is an evade lock or mob reset if an exploit is occuring. No do not nerf the system to "balance" it. Balance is a myth. No two players are ever equal much less whole communities of them. Someone is going to get more out of it than the other but SO WHAT! If I want that reward I have the same ability to run the same content.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
I just finished "Sins of the Father", and as mentioned above I got loot in every single battle. I found coins, potions, unidentified items, a runestone (rank 3) and an enchantment (rank 2). Total items I gained in my inventory through this relatively short quest: 13. It almost felt like I got more loot than I expected from a Foundry quest. I would typically see 2-3 drops per battle, some of it coins and some of it items.
This is a non-issue, people! Just because someone complains doesn't mean they're right to do so.
I'm wondering if maybe the bolded part is important here.
Possibly, though "done a few times before" doesn't mean ten times (or more), or very recently. I'm doing another one right now and have been getting a couple greens and three scrolls (it's the scrolls I'm after). I'd be okay with reduced drops if it is quests that were done before. This could still all fall in the "random is random" category too.
The "target audience" should have been "all players in all playstyles".
That's your opinion, and you're most certainly entitled to it. Just realize that Cryptic has made it very clear that they don't agree with you that exploiting and Foundry grinding is a valid playstyle in this game. Feel free to complain, but this issue has changed a lot from what the thread originally started out with. This nerf only affects (in theory at least. Still needs more testing to verify) quests that Cryptic feels violates their vision of the tool.
Not all games need to be made for all audiences. Cryptic may be smart enough to see that by attracting everyone you're pushing away the dedicated. They're hopefully going for the long-term gain by focusing on the people who are likely to stick around the longest. We'll see how well that succeeds.
Ever think it is suppose to be about the experience? You would hate to play PnP with me GMing! I thought that the drop rate was too high myself so I agree with the changes.
I only got to do one pre-nerf foundry run before the maintenance hit. Just started playing and was only sticking around because I loved the idea of foundry... now my friend and I will probably quit.
I don't think anyone's telling anyone how to play.
Seems to be it's more drastic than that, actually. They're not telling you how you should play. They're telling you that this is how to play Neverwinter (the foundry bits) and if you don't like it and want to play a different way, go play something else.
I don't think anyone's telling anyone how to play.
Seems to be it's more drastic than that, actually. They're not telling you how you should play. They're telling you that this is how to play Neverwinter (the foundry bits) and if you don't like it and want to play a different way, go play something else.
Any developer who wants to get paid never tells their audience to go play something else.. but hey if they stop getting paid no one gets to play with the shiny toy you are all so keen to make sure no one plays with in a way you don't like. In the end all you will "win" is there not being a toy to play with at all. Ask the players of CoX.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Any developer who wants to get paid never tells their audience to go play something else.. but hey if they stop getting paid no one gets to play with the shiny toy you are all so keen to make sure no one plays with in a way you don't like. In the end all you will "win" is there not being a toy to play with at all. Ask the players of CoX.
I would venture the guess that the people who were grinding like hell through these Foundry missions mostly weren't the players who were going to pay for content anyway. Cryptic realizes this. It can be hard to understand what goes on behind the walls of a game studio at times, but I assure you they're not stupid. They make mistakes like anyone, but they don't do things at random.
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ellindar1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Any developer who wants to get paid never tells their audience to go play something else.. but hey if they stop getting paid no one gets to play with the shiny toy you are all so keen to make sure no one plays with in a way you don't like. In the end all you will "win" is there not being a toy to play with at all. Ask the players of CoX.
They do if they know who their actual target audience is. You know, the ones here to play actual d&d in an mmo and not megafarmmobxxx
They do if they know who their actual target audience is. You know, the ones here to play actual d&d in an mmo and not megafarmmobxxx
Cryptic's actual target audience is anyone with a disposable income who is willing to pay real money for fake money to use to obtain virtual items they really do not need to experience any of the gameplay content Neverwinter has.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
No, but I certainly think you're being way, way too narrow in how you approach this. From what other reports I've seen, it seems killing the same monsters over and over again results in vastly diminishing returns. This won't affect normal quests, so there's no reason for Cryptic to do it manually, but it most certainly affects XP farms.
Would you please start taking me seriously in this discussion? I used to run my own game company, I program for a living, and I'm the author of the highest rated quest/campaign in the game at the moment. I'd think at least one of those might give me something to back up my words with.
I wont take you seriously in this discussion either because you are not correct and are not being reasonable.
I can attest that the foundry quests I have done were nerfed. There is a campaign with 3 quests with a demonic setting. The Shocktroop devils are giving half the XP, the Hellfire Warlocks are giving ZERO xp, the imps are about the same in XP, the Legion Devils are giving half the XP and same with the drow assassins...the most I saw out of the quests were about 4 money drops and 3 items and none of those quests are farm quests, the one with the most single mob is one with I think 40 IMPs spread throughout the quest which cant be helped since they are in groups of 5.
See, both of your replies to me are EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You don't care at all how this nerf has affected you only that it punish someone else. You don't care that someone else might play D&D differently than you or with a different goal. You have assumed I support exploits which I don't, I just simply don't support telling players what they have to find fun.
This is a maturity issue, and frankly I'm done arguing with someone who is unable to see past that threshold to want to have fun without taking away the ability from others.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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baconnaiseMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
That's your opinion, and you're most certainly entitled to it. Just realize that Cryptic has made it very clear that they don't agree with you that exploiting and Foundry grinding is a valid playstyle in this game. Feel free to complain, but this issue has changed a lot from what the thread originally started out with. This nerf only affects (in theory at least. Still needs more testing to verify) quests that Cryptic feels violates their vision of the tool.
Not all games need to be made for all audiences. Cryptic may be smart enough to see that by attracting everyone you're pushing away the dedicated. They're hopefully going for the long-term gain by focusing on the people who are likely to stick around the longest. We'll see how well that succeeds.
Doesn't matter who sticks around the longest it's who spends the most. Sticking around longer and not paying costs them money. Why would they want a dedicated somewhat stingy player compared to some other that might play for a month or two and spend a hundred or more bucks? It's a F2P MMO and they're after anyone and everyone that has money to spend. Smart and Cryptic in the same sentence...This is the same company that did CO/STO and the track record is abysmal.
It's pretty straight forward they went a little too far with the changes. All XP maps are virtually gone. It doesn't matter if you were fighting ogres down a corridor or exploiting an aoe map it's all gone. Players that played by the rules and fairly were burned in the process. The community and game will suffer as a result.
You don't care at all how this nerf has affected you only that it punish someone else.
You are right. I don't care in the slightest if exploiters get less enjoyment out of the game. They are neither the type of player I want to play with, nor the type of player I want to make Foundry quests for. They have nothing to do with me and their way of playing the game is obviously (based on Cryptic's own statements) against the developers' intent.
Comments
What has that got to do with the discussion? We're talking about a supposed nerf of item drops. Discuss the banning in the other thread and stay on topic.
Btw: I sympathize. That ban sucks.
As I said, what has this got to do with the discussion? We're not talking about banning. We're talking about item drop nerfs.
Please change it back. If it doesn't change then I guess I have to move on
It was once announced that it would be possible to level entirely via Foundry content, it would be nice, if that actually was an option without having the feeling of gimping yourself.
They simply sledghammered the Foundry to "fix" the issue. Fortunately, as you claimed, this wont affect "normal quests".
Then I'm sorry to say that you're not the target audience for the Foundry. It was never intended to be a grinding tool.
I'm wondering if maybe the bolded part is important here.
dezstravus: This is specifically related to unique scenarios where it was possible to gain more experience than intended. Shouldn't affect normal Foundry missions.
That might actually be a good thing, encourage folk to try something they haven't played before. If it's true it'd be nice to know what the rotation was like though.
I think this right here is the crux of the whole problem. The "target audience" should have been "all players in all playstyles". Cryptic should have been aware this would happen and had a plan at the outset to allow everyone to enjoy the game. There are PnP groups that sit and do nothing but "roll"play all night with lots of combat and loot. There are groups that sit and tell stories all night. Both groups use the same toolkit, the RPG. Here we are with an RPG, an awesome toolkit and rather than playing with it and having fun we are yelling across the aisle at everyone else who is playing with it about how they are doing it wrong.
GROW THE HELL UP PEOPLE!
Yes, Cryptic this is a GIANT FUBAR and may kill your game before you ever call it "launched". It certainly killed CoX when the developers told the players how they had to play. It has consistently been the loss of players of EVERY MMO when the players are told they have to play a certain way. This game hasn't even launched, if they plan to recoup even 10% of their development costs they need to hurry up and un-Fu%& themselves and the Foundry.
Yes, ban exploiters. Yes patch so there is an evade lock or mob reset if an exploit is occuring. No do not nerf the system to "balance" it. Balance is a myth. No two players are ever equal much less whole communities of them. Someone is going to get more out of it than the other but SO WHAT! If I want that reward I have the same ability to run the same content.
This is a non-issue, people! Just because someone complains doesn't mean they're right to do so.
Possibly, though "done a few times before" doesn't mean ten times (or more), or very recently. I'm doing another one right now and have been getting a couple greens and three scrolls (it's the scrolls I'm after). I'd be okay with reduced drops if it is quests that were done before. This could still all fall in the "random is random" category too.
That's your opinion, and you're most certainly entitled to it. Just realize that Cryptic has made it very clear that they don't agree with you that exploiting and Foundry grinding is a valid playstyle in this game. Feel free to complain, but this issue has changed a lot from what the thread originally started out with. This nerf only affects (in theory at least. Still needs more testing to verify) quests that Cryptic feels violates their vision of the tool.
Not all games need to be made for all audiences. Cryptic may be smart enough to see that by attracting everyone you're pushing away the dedicated. They're hopefully going for the long-term gain by focusing on the people who are likely to stick around the longest. We'll see how well that succeeds.
Seems to be it's more drastic than that, actually. They're not telling you how you should play. They're telling you that this is how to play Neverwinter (the foundry bits) and if you don't like it and want to play a different way, go play something else.
Any developer who wants to get paid never tells their audience to go play something else.. but hey if they stop getting paid no one gets to play with the shiny toy you are all so keen to make sure no one plays with in a way you don't like. In the end all you will "win" is there not being a toy to play with at all. Ask the players of CoX.
I would venture the guess that the people who were grinding like hell through these Foundry missions mostly weren't the players who were going to pay for content anyway. Cryptic realizes this. It can be hard to understand what goes on behind the walls of a game studio at times, but I assure you they're not stupid. They make mistakes like anyone, but they don't do things at random.
They do if they know who their actual target audience is. You know, the ones here to play actual d&d in an mmo and not megafarmmobxxx
Cryptic's actual target audience is anyone with a disposable income who is willing to pay real money for fake money to use to obtain virtual items they really do not need to experience any of the gameplay content Neverwinter has.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
I wont take you seriously in this discussion either because you are not correct and are not being reasonable.
I can attest that the foundry quests I have done were nerfed. There is a campaign with 3 quests with a demonic setting. The Shocktroop devils are giving half the XP, the Hellfire Warlocks are giving ZERO xp, the imps are about the same in XP, the Legion Devils are giving half the XP and same with the drow assassins...the most I saw out of the quests were about 4 money drops and 3 items and none of those quests are farm quests, the one with the most single mob is one with I think 40 IMPs spread throughout the quest which cant be helped since they are in groups of 5.
This is a maturity issue, and frankly I'm done arguing with someone who is unable to see past that threshold to want to have fun without taking away the ability from others.
Doesn't matter who sticks around the longest it's who spends the most. Sticking around longer and not paying costs them money. Why would they want a dedicated somewhat stingy player compared to some other that might play for a month or two and spend a hundred or more bucks? It's a F2P MMO and they're after anyone and everyone that has money to spend. Smart and Cryptic in the same sentence...This is the same company that did CO/STO and the track record is abysmal.
It's pretty straight forward they went a little too far with the changes. All XP maps are virtually gone. It doesn't matter if you were fighting ogres down a corridor or exploiting an aoe map it's all gone. Players that played by the rules and fairly were burned in the process. The community and game will suffer as a result.
You are right. I don't care in the slightest if exploiters get less enjoyment out of the game. They are neither the type of player I want to play with, nor the type of player I want to make Foundry quests for. They have nothing to do with me and their way of playing the game is obviously (based on Cryptic's own statements) against the developers' intent.
I don't see how that makes me wrong.