Loving the look of your build! I am looking to do a mix of both dungeons and pvp and would like you opinion on starting stats for a human - 18/16/12 or 16/18/12 (STR/CON/DEX).
Loving the look of your build! I am looking to do a mix of both dungeons and pvp and would like you opinion on starting stats for a human - 18/16/12 or 16/18/12 (STR/CON/DEX).
Whichever you want - the higher strength build will give 2% more damage, the higher con build will give more AP/HP. Either one will work just fine.
Whichever you want - the higher strength build will give 2% more damage, the higher con build will give more AP/HP. Either one will work just fine.
I rolled a Dwarf and took the +2 Con/Str bonus, which in the end gave me 20 Con, 15 Str, 13 Dex, 10 Int, 10 Wis and 8 Cha - Is this alright? I wasn't sure about Int/Wis/Cha, do any of these have any influence or use? My overall goal is to be one of the main tanks for my guild.
Also, I've just recently been awarded some additional ability points and I am not sure where I spend them. To be honest I can't remember how many I have been rewarded exactly - I think it may be two. I received them at around level 15. Any tips here?
Hi Rokuthy just wanted to say amazing guide I'm following it inside out, but I figured out that I wish to go ''full'' tank, since both you and envy states that you ''might'' have issues with things like Castle Never or ''end end dungeons''. Already making a 2nd Guardian Fighter for this specc though! (I am playing on your server too it seems)
Edit: So my question is, how do I adapt this guide to go full out PvE tank, I have no intention to PvP
Regards
Valerion
Hi Rokuthy just wanted to say amazing guide I'm following it inside out, but I figured out that I wish to go ''full'' tank, since both you and envy states that you ''might'' have issues with things like Castle Never or ''end end dungeons''. Already making a 2nd Guardian Fighter for this specc though! (I am playing on your server too it seems)
Edit: So my question is, how do I adapt this guide to go full out PvE tank, I have no intention to PvP
Regards
Valerion
I'm actually specced differently at the moment specifically for T2 dungeon tanking. Tanked a few today, the spec felt good. I was going to add it to my post eventually, but just to quickly cover it, this is what I have:
Keep in mind I'm human so I have 3 more points to spend.
5/5 Action Surge
3/3 Strength Focus
3/3 Toughness
3/3 Armor Specialization
5/5 Distracting Shield
3/3 Potent Challenge
1/5 Powerful Attack (leftover point, can go anywhere)
Cleave or Tide of Iron - Threatening Rush Frontline Surge - Enforced Threat - Into the Fray Supremacy of Steel - Terrifying Impact Shield Talent - Enhanced Mark
For playstyle, this spec involves using Into the Fray basically on CD - huge increase in AP gain for your entire party, speed boost and recharges your shield meter. I use Cleave during most trash and some bosses, Tide of Iron when I can really focus on the boss only (can get away with using Tide of Iron 100% of the time though if you want). Can use either daily depending on the situation. I like popping Enforced Threat and Supremacy of Steel - eat all the incoming damage without blocking, then unleash the AE. Follow it up with Frontline Surge for nice burst (or lead into it with that, doesn't matter). It's a good spec.
For more in depth explanation, you can check out Venore's Thread. We take slightly different feats, but the playstyle will be the same.
Impressed with not only the guide but the speedy reply, thanks for the full tank guide will use it!
Edit: Silly question so basicly your ''powers'' like talents, stay the same? No change there? I will check out Venore's guide.
(Remade the account since I didn't like my account name still same person)
Impressed with not only the guide but the speedy reply, thanks for the full tank guide will use it!
Edit: Silly question so basicly your ''powers'' like talents, stay the same? No change there? I will check out Venore's guide.
(Remade the account since I didn't like my account name still same person)
Regards
Valerion
Yes I was able to leave my power tree specced the same way. That's a 6 dollar respec, so you really want to think it through and get it right. You have enough points to get 3/3 in most abilities you'll ever use, and then just don't waste points on something you know you probably won't ever use.
The powers I listed at the top for the most part will fill that need. There's a few points that can be swapped around once you get the core abilities.
I rolled a Dwarf and took the +2 Con/Str bonus, which in the end gave me 20 Con, 15 Str, 13 Dex, 10 Int, 10 Wis and 8 Cha - Is this alright? I wasn't sure about Int/Wis/Cha, do any of these have any influence or use? My overall goal is to be one of the main tanks for my guild.
Also, I've just recently been awarded some additional ability points and I am not sure where I spend them. To be honest I can't remember how many I have been rewarded exactly - I think it may be two. I received them at around level 15. Any tips here?
Thanks in advance, and thanks for a great guide!
i'm in the same boat, but now at level 30 i got 6 points to spend.
My current numbers is:
STR 18
CON 21
DEX 13
INT/WIS/CHA 10
so, i can't decide where put them
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noodlesmeatMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Could you update the post with your recommended gear status?
Could you update the post with your recommended gear status?
I'm trying to get a list together with all of the available drops and sets / bonuses etc, but it takes time. So in the mean time, I'd value stats as:
Defense -> Recovery -> Deflect -> Power -> Everything else. I'm not sure what sort of DR on stats we'll see, so I don't have any soft cap values to add right now. That stat priority is for tanking mainly. If you want to do DPS then you'd prioritize power/crit/recovery over defense/deflect.
I'm trying to get a list together with all of the available drops and sets / bonuses etc, but it takes time. So in the mean time, I'd value stats as:
Defense -> Recovery -> Deflect -> Power -> Everything else. I'm not sure what sort of DR on stats we'll see, so I don't have any soft cap values to add right now. That stat priority is for tanking mainly. If you want to do DPS then you'd prioritize power/crit/recovery over defense/deflect.
And for your hybrid build, what would you suggest?
Defense->recovery->power?
Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
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meathooks333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited May 2013
First of all, thanks for sharing your build with us. Really great work!
I have one major question for those who are tanking successfully at end-game or even in dungeon in general. It's been my experience that at level 30, I've felt mostly useless in Cloak Tower and Cragmire Crypt. Even as I'm playing solo, my healer companion is capable of pulling hate off of me. I am curious if there is something I'm doing wrong, or if I just have to suffer through the lower levels until the GF is more capable of holding threat. Has this been your experience as well?
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mothrfkarBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
great guide, but could you take pictures of your feats and skill and what not. It makes it visually easier to see what your build is.
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maxwolfieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
I rolled a Dwarf and took the +2 Con/Str bonus, which in the end gave me 20 Con, 15 Str, 13 Dex, 10 Int, 10 Wis and 8 Cha - Is this alright? I wasn't sure about Int/Wis/Cha, do any of these have any influence or use? My overall goal is to be one of the main tanks for my guild.
Also, I've just recently been awarded some additional ability points and I am not sure where I spend them. To be honest I can't remember how many I have been rewarded exactly - I think it may be two. I received them at around level 15. Any tips here?
I personally put my points into strength and con every time I got them, and just let dex go up whenever you get the 6 auto points. Some argue for str/dex builds, etc. To each their own.
Hello, I have a question regarding your stats post
''Defense > Recovery > Power > Crit/Deflect'' Where do I fit in health gear into this? Such as Maximum Health increased by X
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maxwolfieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
I personally put my points into strength and con every time I got them, and just let dex go up whenever you get the 6 auto points. Some argue for str/dex builds, etc. To each their own.
So for me, it was all strength / con.
Cheers mate, you split them equally, i.e. with two points you always put one point in Str and one point in Con?
Hello, I have a question regarding your stats post
''Defense > Recovery > Power > Crit/Deflect'' Where do I fit in health gear into this? Such as Maximum Health increased by X
Most of the increased health items I've seen are health + defense + x. If that's the case, item would seem solid. It just depends on the stat affixes.
For the hybrid tanking build, assuming you're tanking, I'd go:
Defense > Recovery > Power > Health > Deflect > Crit
For DPS, you could ask Envy but I'd go:
Defense > Recovery > Weapon Damage > Crit = Power > Health > Deflect
Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
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cartivaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Thank you Rokuthy. I am lvl 48 Guardian Fighter and was getting discouraged with long drawn out battles and unable to hold threat better than my lvl 15 cleric companion. I respected with your guide and play style. My Guardian is now a treat to play. I am blasting through big bosses and their junk mobs holding threat an lasting through long battles (with cleric companions help). Please keep updating this guide. Thanks again Rcartiva.
Keira Taletreader 60 GF 13.9 GS Erdan Loreweaver 60 CW 11.3 GS Mika Hawklight 60 DC 11.5 GS Rukia Stealthfoot 60 TR 11.5 GS Ka D'Argo 60 HR 13.7 GS Ivan Ironfist 60 GWF 11.6 GS
Are those damage/tanking numbers with your old spec or the new tank based spec?
My hybrid spec. The turtle variation just isn't worth playing in T2's, the group would be better off bringing a CW than a GF. But with hybrid, you pump out mean damage and can still control mobs / tank.
The turtle variation just isn't worth playing in T2's, the group would be better off bringing a CW than a GF. But with hybrid, you pump out mean damage and can still control mobs / tank.
Are you talking about the tanking spec posted by Venore? Why isnt it worth playing in your opinion?
I didn't know they tracked numbers like this. Is this so people wont' group with people who play casual and will never get these high scores? Maybe I'm wrong since everything has been solo friendly though.
Are you talking about the tanking spec posted by Venore? Why isnt it worth playing in your opinion?
Because the current meta game, the state of the end game content just doesn't allow it. Maybe there are groups out there that have such amazing DPS that they can carry a tank through an instance with them (a hard T2) and pull extra weight to make up for their slack, but for most of us, it just isn't possible. Going full mitigation / damage reduction, etc. just isn't worth the net dps loss that the group suffers for it.
In the harder fights that I've seen so far, mobs pile up at such a rate that they either have to be dealt with via AE, or they have to be kited by a cleric while the group burns down the boss. I'm fairly certain that the majority of groups clearing the hardest instances right now are simply kiting adds with a cleric and full dps burning the boss. This strat doesn't even require a tank - bosses for the most part don't NEED to be tanked, and that's an issue. The majority of their big hits are telegraphed and can simply be dodged.
For trash packs, you may be holding threat on mobs, but for the most part (if you're tank spec), you aren't doing much. What you ARE doing, isn't necessary. You're debuffing mobs and causing them to do a little less damage, you're giving your group slightly higher AP gain, and you're giving mobs a 5% damage debuff. -OR- you can go hybrid and do 13 million damage through an instance. What seems like the obvious choice?
The survivability you gain from the turtle spec is all but unnoticed compared to the hybrid build. So really it comes down to this:
You spec full tank and let the 3 dps in the group carry you (because you aren't going to have aggro on any adds during a boss fight for any amount of time that matters), or you go full dps or my hybrid spec and become a DPS yourself (one of the best in the group more than likely). Also, holding aggro is actually EASIER in the hybrid spec due to the sheer DPS you're putting out. I don't even use the enhanced mark passive anymore because my dps is so high that it isn't necessary. I just run with combat sup and ferocious reaction (because blocking is a last resort so sometimes I need that clutch heal when I pop enforced threat on 10+ mobs).
So basically it just comes down to whether you want to be dead weight or actually carry your group to victory. Also, the hybrid spec allows you to put out mean single target dps as well for boss burns.
Here's a Karrundax breakdown:
The reason I'm linking this is because I was PURE SINGLE TARGET for all three bosses in the instance. I didn't touch a single add during the dragon fight (which probably last 10 minutes because I was the only one on the dragon really) and I still kept pace with the GWF that was sitting in the middle of adds for 10 minutes straight. So, outside of Epic Dread Vault (which I'll do tomorrow) and Castle Never, this spec is hands down the way to go for T2 tanking / dps'ing. And I'm only saying outside of those two instances because I haven't done them yet. As soon as I do I'll be sure to chime in and let you know if the spec is still viable or not, but I'm guessing it will be - simply because going full blown tank mode offers nothing to the group that you don't bring as hybrid dps.
***
To finish this little rant, what I'd like to see them do in this game is decrease adds in boss fights - by a lot. Increase the damage that the boss itself does (by 3 fold at least), increase the GF defenses slightly, give us another passive mitigation (maybe a chance to block which doesn't decrease block meter - anything really) and then fix threat all around. Lower everyone's threat passively maybe. Get rid of tab mark - make mark function differently, make it so it doesn't fall off and give it a cooldown or something. And finally give us a tank stance (so DPS guardians can still dps without pulling as much threat - options are good).
If they made those changes then GF's would have a clear role in a group - they'd tank bosses since they'd be deadly to anyone else, and then GWF's could be buffed in such a way that they'd be optimal add tanks (if they wanted to be - once again, options are good), or just make it so adds just need to die quickly rather than be tanked.
But until that happens, hybrid is the way to be viable at end game. Sorry for any typos, I'm typing quickly and need to go get something done. I'll probably edit this in a bit because I hate excessive typos.
Comments
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Whichever you want - the higher strength build will give 2% more damage, the higher con build will give more AP/HP. Either one will work just fine.
Also, I've just recently been awarded some additional ability points and I am not sure where I spend them. To be honest I can't remember how many I have been rewarded exactly - I think it may be two. I received them at around level 15. Any tips here?
Thanks in advance, and thanks for a great guide!
Edit: So my question is, how do I adapt this guide to go full out PvE tank, I have no intention to PvP
Regards
Valerion
I'm actually specced differently at the moment specifically for T2 dungeon tanking. Tanked a few today, the spec felt good. I was going to add it to my post eventually, but just to quickly cover it, this is what I have:
Keep in mind I'm human so I have 3 more points to spend.
5/5 Action Surge
3/3 Strength Focus
3/3 Toughness
3/3 Armor Specialization
5/5 Distracting Shield
3/3 Potent Challenge
1/5 Powerful Attack (leftover point, can go anywhere)
5/5 Armor of Bahamut
5/5 Plate Agility
5/5 Shield Master
5/5 Balanced Shield
5/5 Overwhelming Impact
1/1 Ironguard
5/5 Fight On
For powers:
Cleave or Tide of Iron - Threatening Rush
Frontline Surge - Enforced Threat - Into the Fray
Supremacy of Steel - Terrifying Impact
Shield Talent - Enhanced Mark
For playstyle, this spec involves using Into the Fray basically on CD - huge increase in AP gain for your entire party, speed boost and recharges your shield meter. I use Cleave during most trash and some bosses, Tide of Iron when I can really focus on the boss only (can get away with using Tide of Iron 100% of the time though if you want). Can use either daily depending on the situation. I like popping Enforced Threat and Supremacy of Steel - eat all the incoming damage without blocking, then unleash the AE. Follow it up with Frontline Surge for nice burst (or lead into it with that, doesn't matter). It's a good spec.
For more in depth explanation, you can check out Venore's Thread. We take slightly different feats, but the playstyle will be the same.
Edit: Silly question so basicly your ''powers'' like talents, stay the same? No change there? I will check out Venore's guide.
(Remade the account since I didn't like my account name
Regards
Valerion
Yes I was able to leave my power tree specced the same way. That's a 6 dollar respec, so you really want to think it through and get it right. You have enough points to get 3/3 in most abilities you'll ever use, and then just don't waste points on something you know you probably won't ever use.
The powers I listed at the top for the most part will fill that need. There's a few points that can be swapped around once you get the core abilities.
My current numbers is:
STR 18
CON 21
DEX 13
INT/WIS/CHA 10
so, i can't decide where put them
I'm trying to get a list together with all of the available drops and sets / bonuses etc, but it takes time. So in the mean time, I'd value stats as:
Defense -> Recovery -> Deflect -> Power -> Everything else. I'm not sure what sort of DR on stats we'll see, so I don't have any soft cap values to add right now. That stat priority is for tanking mainly. If you want to do DPS then you'd prioritize power/crit/recovery over defense/deflect.
And for your hybrid build, what would you suggest?
Defense->recovery->power?
Defense > Recovery > Power > Crit/Deflect whichever you can get
I have one major question for those who are tanking successfully at end-game or even in dungeon in general. It's been my experience that at level 30, I've felt mostly useless in Cloak Tower and Cragmire Crypt. Even as I'm playing solo, my healer companion is capable of pulling hate off of me. I am curious if there is something I'm doing wrong, or if I just have to suffer through the lower levels until the GF is more capable of holding threat. Has this been your experience as well?
I personally put my points into strength and con every time I got them, and just let dex go up whenever you get the 6 auto points. Some argue for str/dex builds, etc. To each their own.
So for me, it was all strength / con.
''Defense > Recovery > Power > Crit/Deflect'' Where do I fit in health gear into this? Such as Maximum Health increased by X
Cheers mate, you split them equally, i.e. with two points you always put one point in Str and one point in Con?
That's correct.
Most of the increased health items I've seen are health + defense + x. If that's the case, item would seem solid. It just depends on the stat affixes.
For the hybrid tanking build, assuming you're tanking, I'd go:
Defense > Recovery > Power > Health > Deflect > Crit
For DPS, you could ask Envy but I'd go:
Defense > Recovery > Weapon Damage > Crit = Power > Health > Deflect
Erdan Loreweaver 60 CW 11.3 GS
Mika Hawklight 60 DC 11.5 GS
Rukia Stealthfoot 60 TR 11.5 GS
Ka D'Argo 60 HR 13.7 GS
Ivan Ironfist 60 GWF 11.6 GS
Damage done for that instance run (with 4 AE classes really, so had to share the damage):
And still filled my tanking role:
My hybrid spec. The turtle variation just isn't worth playing in T2's, the group would be better off bringing a CW than a GF. But with hybrid, you pump out mean damage and can still control mobs / tank.
so where does this Stalwart Bulwark Set dropp from?
WAT. How do you have 12k power? I'm barely at 7k
Edit: nvm, I just saw the 4 piece bonus, wow.
Are you talking about the tanking spec posted by Venore? Why isnt it worth playing in your opinion?
I didn't know they tracked numbers like this. Is this so people wont' group with people who play casual and will never get these high scores? Maybe I'm wrong since everything has been solo friendly though.
Because the current meta game, the state of the end game content just doesn't allow it. Maybe there are groups out there that have such amazing DPS that they can carry a tank through an instance with them (a hard T2) and pull extra weight to make up for their slack, but for most of us, it just isn't possible. Going full mitigation / damage reduction, etc. just isn't worth the net dps loss that the group suffers for it.
In the harder fights that I've seen so far, mobs pile up at such a rate that they either have to be dealt with via AE, or they have to be kited by a cleric while the group burns down the boss. I'm fairly certain that the majority of groups clearing the hardest instances right now are simply kiting adds with a cleric and full dps burning the boss. This strat doesn't even require a tank - bosses for the most part don't NEED to be tanked, and that's an issue. The majority of their big hits are telegraphed and can simply be dodged.
For trash packs, you may be holding threat on mobs, but for the most part (if you're tank spec), you aren't doing much. What you ARE doing, isn't necessary. You're debuffing mobs and causing them to do a little less damage, you're giving your group slightly higher AP gain, and you're giving mobs a 5% damage debuff. -OR- you can go hybrid and do 13 million damage through an instance. What seems like the obvious choice?
The survivability you gain from the turtle spec is all but unnoticed compared to the hybrid build. So really it comes down to this:
You spec full tank and let the 3 dps in the group carry you (because you aren't going to have aggro on any adds during a boss fight for any amount of time that matters), or you go full dps or my hybrid spec and become a DPS yourself (one of the best in the group more than likely). Also, holding aggro is actually EASIER in the hybrid spec due to the sheer DPS you're putting out. I don't even use the enhanced mark passive anymore because my dps is so high that it isn't necessary. I just run with combat sup and ferocious reaction (because blocking is a last resort so sometimes I need that clutch heal when I pop enforced threat on 10+ mobs).
So basically it just comes down to whether you want to be dead weight or actually carry your group to victory. Also, the hybrid spec allows you to put out mean single target dps as well for boss burns.
Here's a Karrundax breakdown:
The reason I'm linking this is because I was PURE SINGLE TARGET for all three bosses in the instance. I didn't touch a single add during the dragon fight (which probably last 10 minutes because I was the only one on the dragon really) and I still kept pace with the GWF that was sitting in the middle of adds for 10 minutes straight. So, outside of Epic Dread Vault (which I'll do tomorrow) and Castle Never, this spec is hands down the way to go for T2 tanking / dps'ing. And I'm only saying outside of those two instances because I haven't done them yet. As soon as I do I'll be sure to chime in and let you know if the spec is still viable or not, but I'm guessing it will be - simply because going full blown tank mode offers nothing to the group that you don't bring as hybrid dps.
***
To finish this little rant, what I'd like to see them do in this game is decrease adds in boss fights - by a lot. Increase the damage that the boss itself does (by 3 fold at least), increase the GF defenses slightly, give us another passive mitigation (maybe a chance to block which doesn't decrease block meter - anything really) and then fix threat all around. Lower everyone's threat passively maybe. Get rid of tab mark - make mark function differently, make it so it doesn't fall off and give it a cooldown or something. And finally give us a tank stance (so DPS guardians can still dps without pulling as much threat - options are good).
If they made those changes then GF's would have a clear role in a group - they'd tank bosses since they'd be deadly to anyone else, and then GWF's could be buffed in such a way that they'd be optimal add tanks (if they wanted to be - once again, options are good), or just make it so adds just need to die quickly rather than be tanked.
But until that happens, hybrid is the way to be viable at end game. Sorry for any typos, I'm typing quickly and need to go get something done. I'll probably edit this in a bit because I hate excessive typos.