What I learned in PvP was that GWF simply doesn't stand out. Between Clerics heals, mobility and light CC and Guardians ability to take brutal punishment with the blocking mechanic and passive AC, both have great survivability. Control Wizard have the blatantly overpowered ability to virtually CC someone from full to dead or kite endlessly. And Trickster Rogues can burst someone down in a matter of seconds or disengage at will and escape pretty much any situation.
So if GWF isn't supposed to have the survivability of a healing Cleric or the resilience of a tanky Guardian, with even less DPS then either, or have the CC capabilities of a Control Wizard or lacks the raw damage of a Trickster Rogue then what exactly are GWF supposed to do, what niche do they fill (besides offer the opposing team a free kill)? Many of these classes simply have 2 of these 3 aspects: survivability, mobility, CC and DPS. GWF poorly tries to dabble in them all and fails horribly at it.
You cant balance a PVE game around "pvp" when it treats pvp a secondary element.
Bottom line..... High damage and soft target define half of the non-healer classes. Moderate Damage HARD target defines the middle class. Low damage hard target defines the last class.
GWF are going to be BELOW soft armored pure DPS classes, its only going to get worse as more classes are added.
I think they are stuck being the middle class that others are compared too. Their possible damage mitigation is going to be an albatross around their necks that their peak damage is always weighed against. I think most of the users wish the GWF was actually a Barbarian.
With the DPS casters and duel wielding Rangers coming....chasing the DPS role is a total waste of time.
I think they need more aggro generation at lower levels and a "fire at will AOE Taunt". Lock down the Off tank role that still adds significantly more damage then a second GF.
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saviorgunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Upto lvl 30 there is next to no aggro generation from GWF. There are tons of forum posts about the threat issues.
At no point in time was I able to pull aggro off of my CW friend when he pulled aggro unless he were to stop dps completely.
If I was meant to be a tank I should have threat generating skills or feats that offered higher generation.
The frontal roar that marks the targets generates a lot of threat. held aggro from CW and DV constant AOE spam at level 50. Maybe you should explore the class further before judging. There are a few ways to get threat read more, it is not hard to do.
The frontal roar that marks the targets generates a lot of threat. held aggro from CW and DV constant AOE spam at level 50. Maybe you should explore the class further before judging. There are a few ways to get threat read more, it is not hard to do.
I did not get a frontal roar on my GWF in CBW4 only got one on my GF. Curious which roar you are referring to?
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
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saviorgunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I did not get a frontal roar on my GWF in CBW4 only got one on my GF. Curious which roar you are referring to?
The one that builds determination. also marks targets making them take more damage till they attack you. They tend to want to do that.. hence threat. A couple aoes and you hold it easy.
Spent most of my time on rogue did not memorize the name of the skill.
The one that builds determination. also marks targets making them take more damage till they attack you. They tend to want to do that.. hence threat. A couple aoes and you hold it easy.
Spent most of my time on rogue did not memorize the name of the skill.
Ok thanks I got to my mid-twenties and guess that I didnt read through all the skills properly.
I dont remember anything that added threat. Good to know that there are low level skills that generate threat.
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
I played GWF to 29 last beta and 30 this beta, was quite sad how much damage I took in any given situation considering GWF should be able to shrug off pain or mitigate damage.
"A True Friend Stabs You in the Front."
~Oscar Wilde~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Look at what the Great Weapon Fighter can do, he's so OP!"
~Andy Velasquez~
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I played GWF to 29 last beta and 30 this beta, was quite sad how much damage I took in any given situation considering GWF should be able to shrug off pain or mitigate damage.
my thoughts exactly.
Felt like my GWF was wearing paper machete armour and swung a feather duster around. My trickster rogue took way less damage...
What?!?! GWF do NOT strike HARD?
tell that to my first/second (mostly first) place at "damage dealer" at instances
he is basically the warrior from DnD, using a 2 handed weapon. heavy armor, heavy damage, he is not supposed to dodge stuff, he is supposed to resist.
this. You sir are an idiot. Try hitting like you hit in instances in PvP.
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divinehopeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 48
edited April 2013
Well, granted I am pretty low level, and I tried to do some PvP and was getting wrecked by pretty much everything (PvE seemed OK so far). Which I am not entirely upset about IF we get better (in both PvP and PvE). However, this does not seem to be the case. Thinking about changing my 'main' already lol. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be a OP class, just balanced I guess.
Well, granted I am pretty low level, and I tried to do some PvP and was getting wrecked by pretty much everything (PvE seemed OK so far). Which I am not entirely upset about IF we get better (in both PvP and PvE). However, this does not seem to be the case. Thinking about changing my 'main' already lol. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be a OP class, just balanced I guess.
At this point its not asking to be OP it is asking to give you legs to run with the pack.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
All you have to do is play the intro quest chain before you even hit town to see how awful GWF are. I'm wielding a sword longer than I am tall, and yet it feels like I'm swinging a wiffle bat. I've played a rogue, and now a GWF, and the last boss of the intro almost killed me as a GWF. Everything was easier, groups of mobs, the boss. Everything went down faster with the rogue.
At least make the basic sword swings an AoE like Tera. It makes no sense to have a six feet blade pass harmlessly through enemies.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
With all the crying about the GWF, I'm getting the impression that to many expect this game to be a WoW clone with the no challenge lets mow down anything nerfed to Fisher Price levels ease.
With all the crying about the GWF, I'm getting the impression that to many expect this game to be a WoW clone with the no challenge lets mow down anything nerfed to Fisher Price levels ease.
sounds to me like you never played a GWF, they have not place in the game, no one can tell you the point of them being in atm. Yes I level much slower then the rest of the classes but i can do it. The point is we need something that says "we need a GWF in our group". Being only 5 classes they really dropped the ball here, I expect them to correct it in a timely manner.
All you have to do is play the intro quest chain before you even hit town to see how awful GWF are.
Actually that is what I said yesterday. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?148501-Nothing-Great-about-the-Great-Weapon-Fighter&p=2170081&viewfull=1#post2170081
Just do this test and see for yourself. I dont understand why some people here keep arguing that he is not a striker. We GOT that since beta weekend. What we want to know is WHY the major tank AND the healer is out dpsing the class. He is an offtank, that means his dps should be a LITTLE higher than the main tank (GF) and of course greater than the healer.
This is not happening not even by people on higher levels. I sadly droped mine when I reached the city and deleted it. Wont waste time on it now.
I thought he was originally listed as a striker. Since you know you would do a lot of damage with a huge sword cleaving through peoples faces. But he just sucks all around. Has control, but it's not nearly as good as what the wizard has and is much harder to hit. Has terrible dps, and can't take a hit nearly as well as a guardian fighter. Blech! Shelved my 28 GWF and going trickster or wizard.
I agree. To me this class was or is meant to be your aoe style melee class. as some of its skill point in that direction. However, its clunk, and doesn't do enough damage even a 3 second charge ability should do way more damage then an instant sun burst.
I feel that they either need to make all of the GWF attacks hit more then one mob, some should hit anything in a cone infront of the GWF, some should hit anything in a straight line, or 360 directly near him.
Or they need to really boost his single target damage... cause lets face it, what good does aoe do on a raid boss that doesn't have spawns?
Or maybe even both. perhaps a class passive that divides his damage across multiple targets, "when ever the great weapons fighter is face more then one target his damage is cut by 25% but his attacks will hit all foes in front of him. this will allow him to be a great at aoe, but keep him from being worthless on boss fights.
Seriously, I really wish the Dev's would speak up on this issue. There is not anything in this game with more posts about that players feel is way off, yet they haven't made one comment on it.
The problem to me seems to be that the damage modifiers on the GWF's abilities are... Well... Complete ****. Let's compare numbers. We'll start with the Guardian Fighter:
Total Character Power: 100
Weapon Damage: 42-51
44-51 physical damage cleave (2 ranks) (No damage debuff for hitting multiple enemies)
Character Power: 144 Total
Weapon Damage: 83-101
38-45 physical damage Sure Strike (2 ranks)
41-49 physical damage wicked strike (2 ranks) (damage debuff for every target hit beyond the first)
165-195 physical damage Reaping Strike (2 ranks) (Approximately 3.2-3.7 seconds between each fully charged Reaping Strike)
So we can see that the Great Weapon Fighter's abilities use not even half of the equipped sword's full power, while a Guardian Fighter's abilities use 100% +. Not to mention, Cleave has no damage debuff for hitting multiple enemies. Does this seem like it's keeping with the GWF's theme of "Great AoE Damage Dealer" to anyone else? It doesn't to me.
This isn't even considering the GWF's other flaws, like Sprint not allowing you to "Dodge" enemy attacks like the Wizard's teleport. The only thing sprint is decent at is getting you out of a red zone.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited April 2013
Kinda confusing why the only class in the game loses damage by doing aoe... and it is intended to be the aoe class.
Fix GWF : for lvl 39 atleast
4/5 unstoppable action (optional 5/5 if you want to sacrifice crit)
3/3 disciple of str
3/3 endless assault
5/5 steely defense
3/3 devestating critical
2/3 weapon mastery ( can go 1/3 if you want 4/5 unstoppable)
5/5 great weapon focus
5/5 deep gash
Max out steel blitz and steadfast determination
use Weapon master strike / sure strike with roar/flourish/restoring strike
Always always use Slam its amazing
Stack power>>defense>>>crit in that order then profit and watch rogues cry. Ran throne of idris like that did 2.3 million damage rogue was behind me by just over 900k with the other GWF about 1.2 mil behind.
I know im reposting myself but seriously give it a whirl.
Kinda confusing why the only class in the game loses damage by doing aoe... and it is intended to be the aoe class.
As far as I can tell, Cryptic swung too hard with the nerf bat, like every game dev does. Instead of incrementing changes in, little by little until they hit a sweet spot, they freak out and lower the damage by 60% on everything because some rogue somewhere complained they weren't on the top of the DPS chart, not realizing that in an AoE situation the GWF will rule, but in a single target situation the GWF will have it's *** handed to it.
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pavy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Well I'm a lv25 atm GWF - 1.9k atk over 6.3k HP :S I did just fine in pvp especially with speed burst.... kill 1 enemy 1 vs 3, burst away, then used my jump skill to do dmg to close distance :S also the Tab motivation skill - its like a beserker I did fairly good dmg, yea I died lots in pvp but I got WAY more kills than deaths.... you just have to know your class - best part is I'm built for all aoe skills no 1 vs 1 skills to pvp yet! we do get drones/slows in some aoe and mainly in 1 vs 1 skills...
Overall I find all classes even except for that skill binding one that makes you unable to anything, that's overpowered in pvp :P
Just woke up and want to share this: 22 levels in after one day, the class is amazing, the game is awesome, I haven't bought a single potion yet as I pick up more than I use.
I only got 25 levels in as a GWF but the leveling was painfully slow with zero sustain. On the heavy hitpoint bosses around 25 I was chugging potions even when dodging all emoted abilities.
Single target damage is a joke, You can clear the minions fairly quickly but then your just holding down the left mouse button on the elite for days. Then you have the Control Wizard who can nuke the minions down instantly and burn the elite down 2-3x as fast.
GWF is plagued with high cooldowns, every single one of his abilities has a catch 22, you attack faster but... you do less damage, Its an aoe swing but... it does less damage... every other class is immune during their travel yet I regularly get smacked around when in sprint.
The only thing the GWF has is AoE damage off cooldown, and its laughable damage at that.
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pavy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I only got 25 levels in as a GWF but the leveling was painfully slow with zero sustain. On the heavy hitpoint bosses around 25 I was chugging potions even when dodging all emoted abilities.
Single target damage is a joke, You can clear the minions fairly quickly but then your just holding down the left mouse button on the elite for days. Then you have the Control Wizard who can nuke the minions down instantly and burn the elite down 2-3x as fast.
GWF is plagued with high cooldowns, every single one of his abilities has a catch 22, you attack faster but... you do less damage, Its an aoe swing but... it does less damage... every other class is immune during their travel yet I regularly get smacked around when in sprint.
The only thing the GWF has is AoE damage off cooldown, and its laughable damage at that.
You must have a poorly made GWF then.... Im also lv25 and smoked the Wizard Frayin quest in ONE Tab buff skill... that's what 5 seconds? :P I've solo'd the darkclock or w/e instance - never had an issue on any bosses... sure solo'ing is tough, what do you want? a free max lvl char. Something you don't have to work for? Learn to play and build your class - I LOVE my GWF as I mentioned I was killing pretty easy in pvp and I don't have a def build... purely atk/crit/armor pene I kill faster than I can take dmg. Re-evaluate your character and what it needs before saying "this class sucks". My aoe dmg is pretty insane 1-2 hitting groups of normal mobs 4-6 mobs at a time. Nothing is wrong with this class- just the people crying about it.
Comments
You cant balance a PVE game around "pvp" when it treats pvp a secondary element.
Bottom line..... High damage and soft target define half of the non-healer classes. Moderate Damage HARD target defines the middle class. Low damage hard target defines the last class.
GWF are going to be BELOW soft armored pure DPS classes, its only going to get worse as more classes are added.
I think they are stuck being the middle class that others are compared too. Their possible damage mitigation is going to be an albatross around their necks that their peak damage is always weighed against. I think most of the users wish the GWF was actually a Barbarian.
With the DPS casters and duel wielding Rangers coming....chasing the DPS role is a total waste of time.
I think they need more aggro generation at lower levels and a "fire at will AOE Taunt". Lock down the Off tank role that still adds significantly more damage then a second GF.
The frontal roar that marks the targets generates a lot of threat. held aggro from CW and DV constant AOE spam at level 50. Maybe you should explore the class further before judging. There are a few ways to get threat read more, it is not hard to do.
I did not get a frontal roar on my GWF in CBW4 only got one on my GF. Curious which roar you are referring to?
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
The one that builds determination. also marks targets making them take more damage till they attack you. They tend to want to do that.. hence threat. A couple aoes and you hold it easy.
Spent most of my time on rogue did not memorize the name of the skill.
Ok thanks I got to my mid-twenties and guess that I didnt read through all the skills properly.
I dont remember anything that added threat. Good to know that there are low level skills that generate threat.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
~Oscar Wilde~
"Look at what the Great Weapon Fighter can do, he's so OP!"
~Andy Velasquez~
my thoughts exactly.
Felt like my GWF was wearing paper machete armour and swung a feather duster around. My trickster rogue took way less damage...
Zelda never tried to save a princess...I dont know what game you are talking about. Its not Zelda, I'll tell ya that.
this. You sir are an idiot. Try hitting like you hit in instances in PvP.
At this point its not asking to be OP it is asking to give you legs to run with the pack.
At least make the basic sword swings an AoE like Tera. It makes no sense to have a six feet blade pass harmlessly through enemies.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Calling the main character "Zelda" is a really lame trolling meme.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
sounds to me like you never played a GWF, they have not place in the game, no one can tell you the point of them being in atm. Yes I level much slower then the rest of the classes but i can do it. The point is we need something that says "we need a GWF in our group". Being only 5 classes they really dropped the ball here, I expect them to correct it in a timely manner.
Actually that is what I said yesterday.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?148501-Nothing-Great-about-the-Great-Weapon-Fighter&p=2170081&viewfull=1#post2170081
Just do this test and see for yourself. I dont understand why some people here keep arguing that he is not a striker. We GOT that since beta weekend. What we want to know is WHY the major tank AND the healer is out dpsing the class. He is an offtank, that means his dps should be a LITTLE higher than the main tank (GF) and of course greater than the healer.
This is not happening not even by people on higher levels. I sadly droped mine when I reached the city and deleted it. Wont waste time on it now.
I feel that they either need to make all of the GWF attacks hit more then one mob, some should hit anything in a cone infront of the GWF, some should hit anything in a straight line, or 360 directly near him.
Or they need to really boost his single target damage... cause lets face it, what good does aoe do on a raid boss that doesn't have spawns?
Or maybe even both. perhaps a class passive that divides his damage across multiple targets, "when ever the great weapons fighter is face more then one target his damage is cut by 25% but his attacks will hit all foes in front of him. this will allow him to be a great at aoe, but keep him from being worthless on boss fights.
Total Character Power: 100
Weapon Damage: 42-51
44-51 physical damage cleave (2 ranks) (No damage debuff for hitting multiple enemies)
162-182 damage griffin's wrath
202-233 lunging strike
And now the Great Weapon Fighter:
Character Power: 144 Total
Weapon Damage: 83-101
38-45 physical damage Sure Strike (2 ranks)
41-49 physical damage wicked strike (2 ranks) (damage debuff for every target hit beyond the first)
165-195 physical damage Reaping Strike (2 ranks) (Approximately 3.2-3.7 seconds between each fully charged Reaping Strike)
So we can see that the Great Weapon Fighter's abilities use not even half of the equipped sword's full power, while a Guardian Fighter's abilities use 100% +. Not to mention, Cleave has no damage debuff for hitting multiple enemies. Does this seem like it's keeping with the GWF's theme of "Great AoE Damage Dealer" to anyone else? It doesn't to me.
This isn't even considering the GWF's other flaws, like Sprint not allowing you to "Dodge" enemy attacks like the Wizard's teleport. The only thing sprint is decent at is getting you out of a red zone.
4/5 unstoppable action (optional 5/5 if you want to sacrifice crit)
3/3 disciple of str
3/3 endless assault
5/5 steely defense
3/3 devestating critical
2/3 weapon mastery ( can go 1/3 if you want 4/5 unstoppable)
5/5 great weapon focus
5/5 deep gash
Max out steel blitz and steadfast determination
use Weapon master strike / sure strike with roar/flourish/restoring strike
Always always use Slam its amazing
Stack power>>defense>>>crit in that order then profit and watch rogues cry. Ran throne of idris like that did 2.3 million damage rogue was behind me by just over 900k with the other GWF about 1.2 mil behind.
I know im reposting myself but seriously give it a whirl.
As far as I can tell, Cryptic swung too hard with the nerf bat, like every game dev does. Instead of incrementing changes in, little by little until they hit a sweet spot, they freak out and lower the damage by 60% on everything because some rogue somewhere complained they weren't on the top of the DPS chart, not realizing that in an AoE situation the GWF will rule, but in a single target situation the GWF will have it's *** handed to it.
Overall I find all classes even except for that skill binding one that makes you unable to anything, that's overpowered in pvp :P
Now I give the floor back to whiners.
Just sayin...
Single target damage is a joke, You can clear the minions fairly quickly but then your just holding down the left mouse button on the elite for days. Then you have the Control Wizard who can nuke the minions down instantly and burn the elite down 2-3x as fast.
GWF is plagued with high cooldowns, every single one of his abilities has a catch 22, you attack faster but... you do less damage, Its an aoe swing but... it does less damage... every other class is immune during their travel yet I regularly get smacked around when in sprint.
The only thing the GWF has is AoE damage off cooldown, and its laughable damage at that.
You must have a poorly made GWF then.... Im also lv25 and smoked the Wizard Frayin quest in ONE Tab buff skill... that's what 5 seconds? :P I've solo'd the darkclock or w/e instance - never had an issue on any bosses... sure solo'ing is tough, what do you want? a free max lvl char. Something you don't have to work for? Learn to play and build your class - I LOVE my GWF as I mentioned I was killing pretty easy in pvp and I don't have a def build... purely atk/crit/armor pene