you would think a class weilding a huge 2h weapon would have the highest atk in the game... High attack numbers slow swing speed... A 2h weilder should be putting huge damage numbers but attack slower then a rogue,,, Rogue is fast attack and burst dps.. King at killing players and single targets.. Everyone no's this... I think that fact that the devs didn't release any of the other dps class's yet that everyone thinks the rogue is OP...
Why so many threads about GWF dps. They do fine. Yes TR will do more... it should it is a striker. We are not. I do plenty of damage. Changed my spec yesterday and do a lot more. Keep trying new things out.
And so are GWF. Please, tell me, in your head, how does a two handed weapon class do LESS damage statistically than the guardian fighter with heavier armor and a shield, wielding a one handed weapon? Please, I'd love to hear your lack of logic. A GF hits for 100-110% of it's weapon damage on it's AoE ability. A GWF hits for 40-60% of it's weapon damage on it's AoE ability. Not to mention it gets a DEBUFF on damage for every enemy hit after the first using Wicked Strike.
It seems like, everyone thinks if it doesn't 1-shot everything, it sucks and if it does, its overpowered...lol
No it's not that, it's that you have a weapon with 80-100 damage doing 36-40 damage on a single target strike while a tank class, the guardian fighter is doing 41-46 damage on an AoE strike with a weapon doing 42-51 damage. Then you take into account the GWF has no real means of mitigation and must eat 80% of the damage that comes it's way, with less hp than said guardian fighter and must also perform at a sub-par level for 35 levels while no other class suffers that way... You see the trend.
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topsnlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
The slashes are to narrow, GWF gets a buff for everything hit beyond his first target but that hardly ever happens. I loved it as it was before which was an Aoe slicing machine. Loved it in dungeons clearing adds. Right now it feels like a rogue with a big sword. Needs a remake tbh.
The slashes are to narrow, GWF gets a buff for everything hit beyond his first target but that hardly ever happens. I loved it as it was before which was an Aoe slicing machine. Loved it in dungeons clearing adds. Right now it feels like a rogue with a big sword. Needs a remake tbh.
The destroyer buff lasts what? 5 seconds? It should last at least 15. And it needs to be refreshed as long as you hit as many enemies as you first hit with an AoE and refresh and stack if you hit any more new enemies.
Does GWF have any off tanking capabilities, or is he a one trick pony dps?
Supposedly, but the main way you avoid damage in this game is by not taking damage in the first place which the GWF sucks at doing thanks to the fact their Sprint tactical ability has no chance to dodge or deflect or anything like that. It's good for moving you out of a red zone, if you react in time and thats it.
Supposedly, but the main way you avoid damage in this game is by not taking damage in the first place which the GWF sucks at doing thanks to the fact their Sprint tactical ability has no chance to dodge or deflect or anything like that. It's good for moving you out of a red zone, if you react in time and thats it.
Unstoppable, unstoppable, unstoppable and again unstoppable. Nothing like the whole party but GF and you retreating and instead of taking 3000 damage and getting kocked back / down / stunned, you just stand there slashing, taking less damage due to defense, less due to unstoppable and if you happen to deflect something with your 40% built in deflection chance then it only tickles.
Our dps in dungeons suck. It's that simple. A good CW will out dps any GWF and sometimes even rogues. Every dungeon I've ran with another GWF, we've been really close to dps output and I've yet to see one destroy the charts. We're poopy. Even poopier at pvp. Opposing teams love us in pvp because we're mobile attack dummies.
No idea why people keep complaining regarding the GWF. I loved it in alpha, beta and even now as well! I have no problems in PVP or in PVE. Of course, there are always people better than yourself in PVP that will kick your *** but you either learn from it and get better or you don't.
The class is fun no doubt, but when I finish a dungeon it's nice to look at the charts and feel like you contributed. Right now when I look at them it's pathetic how we get smoked by CW's that's a control class and not much better than GF for dps. Facts.
The class is fun no doubt, but when I finish a dungeon it's nice to look at the charts and feel like you contributed. Right now when I look at them it's pathetic how we get smoked by CW's that's a control class and not much better than GF for dps. Facts.
I am very much different in that regard. I don't care about "meters". I care about getting the group out in one piece. The "meters" do not measure when I go to help that Cleric who is getting swarmed. It does not take into account the debuffs I apply or the CC or even the number of times I have brought back to life the overzealous rogue. But each to his own. I won't let my gameplay be changed by a meter.
I am far from an expert as i literally have only started playing during Open beta.
I hear the class is extremely good at max level, and was recently nerfed/fixed (and is now balanced at the end game)and as such I am pushing through this.
But as it is now, to call my DPS "pathetic" would be an understatement. Granted, I am only level 24, and it is slowly improving, but at level 15 I did one THIRD of my rogue friends damage when we 2 manned the orc skirmish, and I didnt miss any abilities.
On top of that, this morning, i was an entire zone ahead of him, and he is now an entire zone ahead of me, purely and only because of the damage output we can do. I dont mind being a weaker class, infact, i generally enjoy being the underdog in games....But if i crit for 260 damage, while my rogue friend can crit for 2 THOUSAND...is that the rogue being OP, or is the GWF really that terrible?
EDIT: I clearly see that to be efficient i am meant to pull LOTS of mobs and Aoe them down...But it doesnt matter if i pull 3 packs, or 4. The rogues -and- mages are killing a pack, moving on, and killing the next 2 packs before I finish my packs, so its still "inefficient"
0
frostliciousMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I am far from an expert as i literally have only started playing during Open beta.
I hear the class is extremely good at max level, and was recently nerfed/fixed (and is now balanced at the end game)and as such I am pushing through this.
But as it is now, to call my DPS "pathetic" would be an understatement. Granted, I am only level 24, and it is slowly improving, but at level 15 I did one THIRD of my rogue friends damage when we 2 manned the orc skirmish, and I didnt miss any abilities.
On top of that, this morning, i was an entire zone ahead of him, and he is now an entire zone ahead of me, purely and only because of the damage output we can do. I dont mind being a weaker class, infact, i generally enjoy being the underdog in games....But if i crit for 260 damage, while my rogue friend can crit for 2 THOUSAND...is that the rogue being OP, or is the GWF really that terrible?
EDIT: I clearly see that to be efficient i am meant to pull LOTS of mobs and Aoe them down...But it doesnt matter if i pull 3 packs, or 4. The rogues -and- mages are killing a pack, moving on, and killing the next 2 packs before I finish my packs, so its still "inefficient"
^ This! still feel like its taking forever to kill with full blue 1soc gear with 120 power enchants and power/crit/def/apen stats at lvl 40 and over... especially with the "medium" monsters after lvl 35 ish, i love the class mechanics, but we need more dmg to the at-will skills, or at least restore Sure Strike like it was b4 (with the larger cone of attack 5 cyc was it ? the 2 cyc feels like rogue with a spoon) also the leveling process is WAY worse than it was during the previous betas bc the skills now scale more with gear rather than feats/ranks/lvl. end game balance ? we can just hope some % of the new GWF's get there b4 rerolling...
But if i crit for 260 damage, while my rogue friend can crit for 2 THOUSAND...is that the rogue being OP, or is the GWF really that terrible?
EDIT: I clearly see that to be efficient i am meant to pull LOTS of mobs and Aoe them down...But it doesnt matter if i pull 3 packs, or 4. The rogues -and- mages are killing a pack, moving on, and killing the next 2 packs before I finish my packs, so its still "inefficient"
It's partly rogue being OP, they do insane damage, but not entirely, IMO. I've been leveling a GWF alongside my friend's Rogue, and (especially when she uses their #1 ability to teleport around, it just kills everything before I can AOE it) the disparity in damage is unbelievable. I realize the GWF specializes more in AOE than singletarget, but even when we pull huge packs of mobs, it feels like she's doing most of the damage and I'm the one being carried. They do seem far more efficient.
While the damage on Restoring Strike is decent, I was also very unimpressed with the heal amount... which seemed so insignificant that it might as well not even be there.
And don't even get me started on PvP. Do GWF's get any kind of root later on? The snare from Not So Fast didn't do much at all, enemy melee'ers would just keep running away from me (despite my sprinting to catch up to them or using Mighty Leap, and the annoyance that it's difficult to attack and keep up with a kiting/moving opponent, since the animation stops you for a second each time. Luckily the greatsword has a huge range, I guess.) In general, I felt horribly useless aside from Avalanche of Steel. I'm hoping this is just a case of only having earlier abilities, and that if I level up more, maybe the later skills will be better...
^ This! still feel like its taking forever to kill with full blue 1soc gear with 120 power enchants and power/crit/def/apen stats at lvl 40 and over... especially with the "medium" monsters after lvl 35 ish, i love the class mechanics, but we need more dmg to the at-will skills, or at least restore Sure Strike like it was b4 (with the larger cone of attack 5 cyc was it ? the 2 cyc feels like rogue with a spoon) also the leveling process is WAY worse than it was during the previous betas bc the skills now scale more with gear rather than feats/ranks/lvl. end game balance ? we can just hope some % of the new GWF's get there b4 rerolling...
Now imagine what its like in quest gear, just random greens and quest rewards!
Like i said. 260 damage Crits at level 25 lol
(And having read that level 60 GWF's "guide" I am using all the right skills, though, they were self explanatory )
I hear the class is extremely good at max level, and was recently nerfed/fixed (and is now balanced at the end game)and as such I am pushing through this.
But as it is now, to call my DPS "pathetic" would be an understatement. Granted, I am only level 24, and it is slowly improving, but at level 15 I did one THIRD of my rogue friends damage when we 2 manned the orc skirmish, and I didnt miss any abilities.
...is that the rogue being OP, or is the GWF really that terrible?
EDIT: I clearly see that to be efficient i am meant to pull LOTS of mobs and Aoe them down...But it doesnt matter if i pull 3 packs, or 4. The rogues -and- mages are killing a pack, moving on, and killing the next 2 packs before I finish my packs, so its still "inefficient"
To answer you questions:
1) At high level some people have said that THEIR Great Weapon Fighter is doing decent damage, but the sample size isn't great and others have complained about low damage there also, so it is too early to say for certain.
2) Currently, at least for the first 30-40 level, Rogues are by far the best DPS while GWF seems to be worst. So no, it is not just that your friend is amazing and you are ,er, not so amazing at this game.
I love the idea of the class, being able to whack things and send them flying with a huge two handed weapon appeals to me. However I have to agree with what alot of people have said about the class, it feels like the damage is alot lower then for exmaple a TR but at the same time I feel like the TR even took less damage when leveling / pvp etc? I dunno, I think the class damage is about fine perhaps a bit higher would do...but darn give us some more survivability? I can't see the logic where a TR should be able to toe to toe fight you without dodges and just barelly loose.
Djcarry is right, I'm only in tier 2 epic content but and the damage output of the GWF is insane. I don't play as destroyer though, I play in the initiator tree.
The sustained AoE of the class at 60 seems perfectly fine to me, even as a Sentinel. Sentinels still need to have their threat issues resolved though.
I still feel a bit conflicted about Sure Strike though... it feels very lacking unless we are in Unstoppable. This would be less of a problem if as a Sentinel it was easier to draw threat from already engaged packs.
A few tweaks and I think the class will be in excellent shape.
| Banners of the Light | Recruitment is open | End Game PvE and PvP |
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
you dont need to use sure strike im not even in sentinel tree and i can pick up a few adds and hold aggro atm. Just go unstoppable at will with weapon mastery strike and slam you will hold aggro and do aoe damage. Its what I do for our 20 minute Speed runs in the Pirate epic dungeon (8300 gs)
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volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
initiator is best for groups.
I am sentinel and i am doing more than ok. But aggro generation is fcked up tbh so i am thinking about initiator too.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
you dont need to use sure strike im not even in sentinel tree and i can pick up a few adds and hold aggro atm. Just go unstoppable at will with weapon mastery strike and slam you will hold aggro and do aoe damage. Its what I do for our 20 minute Speed runs in the Pirate epic dungeon (8300 gs)
That just proves how broken the Sentinel threat feats are, thanks - lol. And yes, I already know of the combo although the scaling isn't as good via Sentinel due to a number of reasons that I've already exhausted in multiple posts.
It does bring to light the point that DPS specs should simply stop complaining. However, it isn't a fix for other alternatives or poorly tuned feats. It may also be that the content itself isn't at all that challenging, hmm.
| Banners of the Light | Recruitment is open | End Game PvE and PvP |
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
Unstoppable, unstoppable, unstoppable and again unstoppable. Nothing like the whole party but GF and you retreating and instead of taking 3000 damage and getting kocked back / down / stunned, you just stand there slashing, taking less damage due to defense, less due to unstoppable and if you happen to deflect something with your 40% built in deflection chance then it only tickles.
You still eat 50% of that damage. You don't avoid it. Avoidance > Mitigation.
Comments
And so are GWF. Please, tell me, in your head, how does a two handed weapon class do LESS damage statistically than the guardian fighter with heavier armor and a shield, wielding a one handed weapon? Please, I'd love to hear your lack of logic. A GF hits for 100-110% of it's weapon damage on it's AoE ability. A GWF hits for 40-60% of it's weapon damage on it's AoE ability. Not to mention it gets a DEBUFF on damage for every enemy hit after the first using Wicked Strike.
Please, continue with your lack of logic.
Not before level 35. Why does this class get the shaft while all other classes are viable right out of the box?
It seems like, everyone thinks if it doesn't 1-shot everything, it sucks and if it does, its overpowered...lol
No it's not that, it's that you have a weapon with 80-100 damage doing 36-40 damage on a single target strike while a tank class, the guardian fighter is doing 41-46 damage on an AoE strike with a weapon doing 42-51 damage. Then you take into account the GWF has no real means of mitigation and must eat 80% of the damage that comes it's way, with less hp than said guardian fighter and must also perform at a sub-par level for 35 levels while no other class suffers that way... You see the trend.
The destroyer buff lasts what? 5 seconds? It should last at least 15. And it needs to be refreshed as long as you hit as many enemies as you first hit with an AoE and refresh and stack if you hit any more new enemies.
Supposedly, but the main way you avoid damage in this game is by not taking damage in the first place which the GWF sucks at doing thanks to the fact their Sprint tactical ability has no chance to dodge or deflect or anything like that. It's good for moving you out of a red zone, if you react in time and thats it.
Unstoppable, unstoppable, unstoppable and again unstoppable. Nothing like the whole party but GF and you retreating and instead of taking 3000 damage and getting kocked back / down / stunned, you just stand there slashing, taking less damage due to defense, less due to unstoppable and if you happen to deflect something with your 40% built in deflection chance then it only tickles.
I am very much different in that regard. I don't care about "meters". I care about getting the group out in one piece. The "meters" do not measure when I go to help that Cleric who is getting swarmed. It does not take into account the debuffs I apply or the CC or even the number of times I have brought back to life the overzealous rogue. But each to his own. I won't let my gameplay be changed by a meter.
I hear the class is extremely good at max level, and was recently nerfed/fixed (and is now balanced at the end game)and as such I am pushing through this.
But as it is now, to call my DPS "pathetic" would be an understatement. Granted, I am only level 24, and it is slowly improving, but at level 15 I did one THIRD of my rogue friends damage when we 2 manned the orc skirmish, and I didnt miss any abilities.
On top of that, this morning, i was an entire zone ahead of him, and he is now an entire zone ahead of me, purely and only because of the damage output we can do. I dont mind being a weaker class, infact, i generally enjoy being the underdog in games....But if i crit for 260 damage, while my rogue friend can crit for 2 THOUSAND...is that the rogue being OP, or is the GWF really that terrible?
EDIT: I clearly see that to be efficient i am meant to pull LOTS of mobs and Aoe them down...But it doesnt matter if i pull 3 packs, or 4. The rogues -and- mages are killing a pack, moving on, and killing the next 2 packs before I finish my packs, so its still "inefficient"
^ This! still feel like its taking forever to kill with full blue 1soc gear with 120 power enchants and power/crit/def/apen stats at lvl 40 and over... especially with the "medium" monsters after lvl 35 ish, i love the class mechanics, but we need more dmg to the at-will skills, or at least restore Sure Strike like it was b4 (with the larger cone of attack 5 cyc was it ? the 2 cyc feels like rogue with a spoon) also the leveling process is WAY worse than it was during the previous betas bc the skills now scale more with gear rather than feats/ranks/lvl. end game balance ? we can just hope some % of the new GWF's get there b4 rerolling...
It's partly rogue being OP, they do insane damage, but not entirely, IMO. I've been leveling a GWF alongside my friend's Rogue, and (especially when she uses their #1 ability to teleport around, it just kills everything before I can AOE it) the disparity in damage is unbelievable. I realize the GWF specializes more in AOE than singletarget, but even when we pull huge packs of mobs, it feels like she's doing most of the damage and I'm the one being carried.
While the damage on Restoring Strike is decent, I was also very unimpressed with the heal amount... which seemed so insignificant that it might as well not even be there.
And don't even get me started on PvP. Do GWF's get any kind of root later on? The snare from Not So Fast didn't do much at all, enemy melee'ers would just keep running away from me (despite my sprinting to catch up to them or using Mighty Leap, and the annoyance that it's difficult to attack and keep up with a kiting/moving opponent, since the animation stops you for a second each time. Luckily the greatsword has a huge range, I guess.) In general, I felt horribly useless aside from Avalanche of Steel. I'm hoping this is just a case of only having earlier abilities, and that if I level up more, maybe the later skills will be better...
Now imagine what its like in quest gear, just random greens and quest rewards!
Like i said. 260 damage Crits at level 25 lol
(And having read that level 60 GWF's "guide" I am using all the right skills, though, they were self explanatory
To answer you questions:
1) At high level some people have said that THEIR Great Weapon Fighter is doing decent damage, but the sample size isn't great and others have complained about low damage there also, so it is too early to say for certain.
2) Currently, at least for the first 30-40 level, Rogues are by far the best DPS while GWF seems to be worst. So no, it is not just that your friend is amazing and you are ,er, not so amazing at this game.
Extinction - GWF
I still feel a bit conflicted about Sure Strike though... it feels very lacking unless we are in Unstoppable. This would be less of a problem if as a Sentinel it was easier to draw threat from already engaged packs.
A few tweaks and I think the class will be in excellent shape.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
I am sentinel and i am doing more than ok. But aggro generation is fcked up tbh so i am thinking about initiator too.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
That just proves how broken the Sentinel threat feats are, thanks - lol. And yes, I already know of the combo although the scaling isn't as good via Sentinel due to a number of reasons that I've already exhausted in multiple posts.
It does bring to light the point that DPS specs should simply stop complaining. However, it isn't a fix for other alternatives or poorly tuned feats. It may also be that the content itself isn't at all that challenging, hmm.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
You still eat 50% of that damage. You don't avoid it. Avoidance > Mitigation.