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Clarification about Drow in Hero of the North Packs

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  • krubarkrubar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 841 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    You get the drow 2 months later. FREE.
  • zagemoggazagemogga Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wynde wrote: »
    So I am basically being told that my main character I plan to have in the game, I cannot play until 2 months after release UNLESS I fork out $200 to get the pack. I have already spent $60 just to be able to get in beta and a few perks. This is ****ED up! I have an entire guild planned around this character and now my plans are postponed for 60 days or $200. I have never spent that much on one game... and they call this totally free to play?

    Menzo-Renegade != Drow

    If you check the other threads where someone extracted the game files, this is handled as a unique race. HoN owners cannot create Drow either until after 60 days of release.
  • rohk007rohk007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    this is how I feel when I get the "fast-pass" at Carowinds and pass everyone in line going to the front. I know they hate it but well, I paid extra for it. Feels good.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nationalcity1nationalcity1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 58
    edited March 2013
    rohk007 wrote: »
    this is how I feel when I get the "fast-pass" at Carowinds and pass everyone in line going to the front. I know they hate it but well, I paid extra for it. Feels good.


    Just because I didn't fork out $200 means I didn't support the game good enough to play the Drow?

    I understand you HOTN packs get the skin and you should you paid $200 but it makes no sense why the Guardians shouldn't get the normal drow......

    Considering I paid for the $60 dollar one but that wasn't good enough....

    I don't think people would be so up in arms if they had actually taken the time to explain it before the pre-orders but they didn't they waited till tons of people already pre-ordered and the said oh btw Guardian don't get them only HOTN packs......

    Seems like a complete and utter cash grab and I for one won't be part of it. Its well within there rights to do this but its also my right to get a refund 8P


    And I'm sure I'm not the only one.......
  • krubarkrubar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 841 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    Well, wish hero packs got access to the drow like you are saying. BUT WE DONT.

    We have to wait 60 days just like everyone else. Hero pack owners only get the mezo renegade skinned character which is being treated as a completely different character than a drow. Guy up above just said that.
  • nationalcity1nationalcity1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 58
    edited March 2013
    krubar wrote: »
    Well, wish hero packs got access to the drow like you are saying. BUT WE DONT.

    We have to wait 60 days just like everyone else. Hero pack owners only get the mezo renegade skinned character which is being treated as a completely different character than a drow. Guy up above just said that.

    Which is fine I will just not be playing until the race I want is available to me.

    No more no less...

    It's just sad because who knows by the time the race is actually available if I will still have interest with all the other MMO's on the horizon.

    I'm looking foward to TESO also and far as I know they wont restrict the race I actually want to play 8P
  • krubarkrubar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 841 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    Well, I am sure lots of other people, including hero pack owners, would rather their main be a different class than what we are starting with. I personally would like to start with a battle cleric. You don't see people throwing a fit about that do you?

    I suggest trying something new, try a different race or class, who knows, you might like it. Or wait two months.
  • xaralleixarallei Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 101
    edited March 2013
    krubar wrote: »
    Well, wish hero packs got access to the drow like you are saying. BUT WE DONT.

    We have to wait 60 days just like everyone else. Hero pack owners only get the mezo renegade skinned character which is being treated as a completely different character than a drow. Guy up above just said that.

    This is pretty disingenuous. It's called a renegade DROW afterall and it allows HoN pack owners to effectively bypass the no drow for 60 days rule. The renegades have more cosmetic options like tattoos and a special racial, but they are still drow.
  • krubarkrubar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 841 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    True, and the renegade is exclusive to just hero pack owners and may never be available to everyone else. Normal drow, we have to wait just like everyone else.
  • daytonamaxdaytonamax Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 196 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2013
    "But i wanna play an Albino Drow, that was exiled for being different!!"
    i guess I will just select Elf then. :D
  • graylancegraylance Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 5
    edited March 2013
    I am not sure what the fuss is all about. Unfortunately due to old forums not being up anymore, I cannot link anything, however - Drow was never talked about as a race available on the release day.

    In any case, view a $200 investment as founder "kickstarter-like" support. For this money you receive an exclusive Menzo-Renegade look and access to a Drow character 60 days before it would have normally been released.

    I, personally will not be playing a dark elf character, but I do understand the decision on the part of Cryptic. Since the game will be free anyway; and if you are so inclined to protest the game because it does not let you play a regular Drow right at the release - save yourselves some nerves and join in 2 months later.
  • elminbanelminban Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Some apporiate music for this thread, click before reading: http://youtu.be/Gpc5_3B5xdk

    So what is the story on Drow? I have heard no one; to include Hero of the North will not get Drow for 60 days. I have also heard Hero of the North will get Drow at launch but the rest have to wait. I have also read that the renegade Drow is a skin and that it is a separate race in and of itself.
    2.jpg
  • xaralleixarallei Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 101
    edited March 2013
    elminban wrote: »
    Some apporiate music for this thread, click before reading: http://youtu.be/Gpc5_3B5xdk

    So what is the story on Drow? I have heard no one; to include Hero of the North will not get Drow for 60 days. I have also heard Hero of the North will get Drow at launch but the rest have to wait. I have also read that the renegade Drow is a skin and that it is a separate race in and of itself.

    It's like this, the free drow open to everyone (including HoN folks) 60 days after launch. At launch HoN people have access to the Menzo Renegade Drow. It's basically an RP drow. You get special tattoos and faerie fire ability. I find it disingenuous for HoN folks to point out that they don't have access to regular drow either when they have access to a drow skin. Do you honestly think they will be waiting 60 days for the normal drow to be released? No, they will play their renegade drow because it's basically the same thing as the free drow only with added RP elements.

    But anyway, this topic has been posted to death. At this point I'm going to keep pushing for race change tokens in the shop so that people CAN play at launch and then race change once drow are unlocked.
  • wesgarwesgar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sounds like back pedaling to me....

    Now for my question why the ambiguity on when the drow will be released and how does it have anything to do with exclusivity of the Mezo option?

    That's interesting, I took it exactly the opposite way, there has been a lot of talk on the fourms about the fact that in the past "Exclusive" hasn't meant the same thing to players, as it does to corporate suits.

    I felt that far from 'back pedaling' that this was adding clarification to what is meant by 'exclusive'. A well defined list of what's 'for ever' and then an explanation of what will be released.

    It would have been 'folly' to think that the 'Drow' Race would be exclusive (forever) to purchasers of the Hero of the North Pack. Yet it was a question that many had. Now we know the intent of the company, clearly defined.

    as for your question, there were some people that wondered (aloud on the forums,) if an exclusive 'mezo' meant exclusive 'drow', with this clarification, we now know the answer. Hero's get to be the only 'drow type' characters for a while, but eventually, other Drow will be in the game.


    tinbender02 may not have seen all the 'chatter' about this topic on the forums, but I for one and happy for the clarification.
    Thanks,

    zWolf / Wesgar


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Exclusive means first or only. Regegade Drow are exclusively for Hero of the North people (and this time it means only,) and they will get to play a Drow race before others (and in this case, first.) As noted, nobody can play a generic drow for those first 60 post launch days.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thorssonsthorssons Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Unconfirmed source, but take it for what you want:

    The "Renegade Drow" is the EXACT same thing as the "vanilla Drow", the ONLY difference is the Faerie Fire debuff and the special "Menzo Renegade" Tattoo.

    I repeat, EVERYTHING is the same except for those two features.
  • neyarineyari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Does this mean that only the Heroes can make renegade drow only? or are they also being allowed to create the regular drow ahead of time?

    I still think this is the worst compromise for a small portion of the community who appears to be illiterate ****s. Having played with the drow creation in alpha, and seeing that they are infact finished, this just seems like a really cheap way to try and build some hype that advertisments and all your screenshots seem to imply will be part of the base game at launch.

    Ohh well, guess not doing **** for two months after being sold on a race won't matter. Lets just hope cryptic can follow up on their 60 day promise. Let the people who couldn't read be beautiful snowflakes for a few days. Maybe make ranger class when it releases a Hero donator only thing because you totally showed them looking like Drizzt or whatever. And they might have misunderstood that the hero pack didn't include exclusive rights to use bows and weapons.
  • steppenkatsteppenkat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wynde wrote: »
    So I am basically being told that my main character I plan to have in the game, I cannot play until 2 months after release UNLESS I fork out $200 to get the pack. I have already spent $60 just to be able to get in beta and a few perks. This is ****ED up! I have an entire guild planned around this character and now my plans are postponed for 60 days or $200. I have never spent that much on one game... and they call this totally free to play?

    I took my time to inform myself about what each pack contained. I was also going to buy the Guardian, but now I'm aiming for HotN.

    You know, I won't even use the panther and the mounted spider. They're too cheesy for me and don't fit my character's RP (how can an apostate mount a spider? Ew).

    People got too much hyped, perhaps this is partly Cryptic's blame - but also people like to read what they want (like Starter Pack buyers insisting that they should have Free Beta access). Just read the terms of the products and services you're buying, guys. Then you'll see what you're paying for.

    Drow isn't a starter race anyways. It's good enough that they give us a chance to start with one SOMEHOW.
    Characters:
    - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
    - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
    - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
    - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)


    Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
  • neyarineyari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    steppenkat wrote: »
    Drow isn't a starter race anyways. It's good enough that they give us a chance to start with one SOMEHOW.

    If thats the case then its clearly designed to maximize their sales of the hero pack, which is kinda lame when you get down to it. I bought the guardian because I don't have that kind of disposable income for video games. I figured for the price of what I'd spend on a new game in a month it would be fine.

    Drow had been put in alpha like all the other races, so it was easy to assume that you would be able to play them at launch. Hell Im not even a huge fan of elves in general but, after reading on NWN lore and such, I found myself gravitating towards playing one. Like many others who had been lead to believe they where simply another race to play at launch. It was infuriating to find out that due to idiots who spent 200 dollars without reading, we will have to wait an entire two months to feign some sort of exclusivity for the sake of appeasement.
  • steppenkatsteppenkat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I didn't know they were available for Alpha. My experience with NWO relates only to BW2 - and as far as I know, I couldn't select a Drow - .

    I can understand why some people are upset then. But I don't know why should you "blame" HotN purchasers for the Drow's locking. Was there a flamewar of some sort? Or don't you think that Cryptic had this all planned from the start?

    I myself didn't thought I'd spend that income in videogames, but since I play very few (I played Neverwinter Nights 5 years in a row, so it was like a 30 dollar investment) and after my longterm experience with League of Legends, I have no issues anymore with donating for FtP games if they provide me with longterm entertainment. I think I must have spent like 400 dollars on LoL content over the time I've played it and now that I look back I don't find that investment painful. So, 200 dollars for a kickstarter in an MMO I've been years waiting for... it doesn't seem like a stupid deal for me. Specially when it comes with my favorite race, hehe. :)
    Characters:
    - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
    - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
    - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
    - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)


    Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
  • neyarineyari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    From what I can gather over the past few weeks it seems that Hero Purchasers, and I am half positive most of this is buyers remorse, wanted a refund because they claimed... Which is odd considering how clear the description is about what you are getting. That they bought it because they thought the Drow race was going to be a Hero only thing.

    Which leads us to now, A hamfisted attempt at placating something that should have never occurred.

    I think the most hilarious thing is I had no interest in playing Drow at the start, it wasn't till I got to play around with everything in alpha that I got interested and resolved to set it as my main. The case for many I am sure as far as planning their primary characters for such a fun game.

    I don't mind spending money on a game I played the alpha of and enjoyed, I rarely pre-order and thanks to colonial marines, I've learned that the industry as a whole will say anything to get cash these days.

    Again this is the difference in levels of disposable income, and while thats great that you can justify a 200 dollar purchase, Consider why you have to do so to begin with. Your reference to League is a prime example. Do you spend 200 dollars in 6 months on that game because you truely enjoy it? or simply because its easier, and faster to get things by shelling out real money for content that their inspiration/dota enviroments offered for free till now?

    This game is clearly not a parallel to that, its just the kind of argument that makes little sense in the long run. How would you feel if, had you played league all this time, suddenly they announce it coming out of beta and all your staple characters you had become used to suddenly required you to spend money to unlock without the possibility of grinding to get them. (weak analogy I know, but the general emotional range is correct)

    As a guardian purchaser, I don't regret my decision to invest in the game based on my experiences with the alpha and beta. But given how they suddenly just tore the rug out from under me in terms of planning with inexplicably weak reasoning... I don't trust them enough to reinvest cash at this point. I suspect that it won't matter, they have enough white knights now to defend this game. Regardless or not of a complaint's validity, everyone is grouped into this mass labeling of "whining" because thats how the internet works.

    So between the half ramble and discontent at Cryptic's choices, I hope I am wrong and its truely some game breaking bug they need 2 months to iron out, but given what I've seen in alpha and how they are basically finished, I doubt it.

    Tl;dr.
    It feels like this was a weak attempt at either promoting sales of their expensive hero pack and/or placating people who didn't have the reading comprehension and patience to understand what they are actually purchasing.
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    And this is why I ask people back their posting with fact, not assumption or rumor. People take the assumption/rumor as fact and then get upset when they "read this before as different."


    Same goes with things changing. Yes, before the regular non renegade drow race WOULD be available, but there wasn't a sense of priority felt for what people purchased, so PWE decided to limit the release of the non renegade drow race to at least 60 days AFTER launch to thank the HotN buyers and show their appreciation to the purchasing users' committment.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • steppenkatsteppenkat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Again this is the difference in levels of disposable income, and while thats great that you can justify a 200 dollar purchase, Consider why you have to do so to begin with. Your reference to League is a prime example. Do you spend 200 dollars in 6 months on that game because you truely enjoy it? or simply because its easier, and faster to get things by shelling out real money for content that their inspiration/dota enviroments offered for free till now?

    Um, my purchases in League were mainly skins (costumes for characters), so I don't think I had that much of an advantage. Buying character is meaningless in the long run since you tend up to play few anyway. Skins don't offer "advantage", they only make your character look different.

    The only "power" advantage I bought were runepages, but that hardly costs more than 10 dollars the pack of 7. That's worth a skin, haha.

    What I spend in games is mainly for entertainment. I find counter-intuitive to spend to get power (aka weapons or things like that) if they make the game a lot easier. The point of playing is to reach the endgame, so if I pay to reach it faster I will enjoy less the game in the longrun. :P

    I pay for vanity items, mostly. Because I'm a nerd and I like to feel special. I like to dress my toons with pretty outfits. For me, this Pack is meant for two things:

    1) It helps you support the game in a meaningful way (200 bucks isn't a small amount) while giving you credit for it (Titles).
    2) Vanity, vanity, and more vanity! Because there are a lot of sweets within this, I can play 5 days before launch and I HATE waiting for queue times, lol. And I can play Drow sooner. For me it's perfect.

    The Guardian pack is the cheaper option, so what it gives is less cool, right? Well, to be honest, I'd trade my Panther for the Dire Wolf anytime. :P But that's what you pay for. It's fair.
    Characters:
    - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
    - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
    - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
    - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)


    Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
  • neyarineyari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    And this is why I ask people back their posting with fact, not assumption or rumor. People take the assumption/rumor as fact and then get upset when they "read this before as different."
    Then it should have been explained transparently to the masses, and not as a slight of hand job leaving many of their existing and tentative users going "WTF"

    Even now they haven't officially said anything, we have a forum moderator quoting an already listed thing regarding the Drow. *EDIT: seems the post has been changed to reflect that.

    No matter how rational it may have been to Cryptic, many people, and at times including myself end up feeling slighted. This game isn't even out yet and its already managing to leave a bad taste in my mouth over the entire affair. I don't mind shelling out money for things like this, I do mind when its suddenly changed to appease a minority. I can't assume to speak for everyone. Which I am by no means representing any particular group.

    Edited: clarification on the book series seems to indicate differently from what I initially believed. Removed for the sake of clarity.

    Even if I had purchased the Hero pack, or guardian had similar benefits, it wouldn't change my stance on this.

    Hell even a time table adjustment would have been fine at this point. One to Two weeks sure, I can live with that, but the 60 days thing is terrible. I may not even touch this game for 60 days at this point. (inb4 u wont be missed responses)

    EDIT: I guess the general jest is, instead of giving the Hero purchasers something fancier to fix this, they opted to take something from everyone else. A kinda sleezy tactic to make someone else happy at the expense of the vast majority of their playerbase. Or in the very least, the group of those who wanted to make Drow.
  • zaketrinzaketrin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    From what I can gather over the past few weeks it seems that Hero Purchasers, and I am half positive most of this is buyers remorse, wanted a refund because they claimed... Which is odd considering how clear the description is about what you are getting. That they bought it because they thought the Drow race was going to be a Hero only thing.

    I purchased the "Hero of the North" founders pack. I have no complaints. I never considered the Drow race an exclusive. I have no buyers remorse.
  • neyarineyari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    zaketrin wrote: »
    I purchased the "Hero of the North" founders pack. I have no complaints. I never considered the Drow race an exclusive. I have no buyers remorse.
    That would mean you do not fall into that category then and seem to be a reasonable person who can read? I only used the buyers remorse thing as one of the few feasible reasons that kinda "misunderstanding" about the Drow would have been used. The only way you can get what you want from companies is through their wallet most of the time. So demanding a refund on an expensive item tends to get results.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    *deleted*
    <10 chars>
  • neyarineyari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I called myself going in and editing out the idiocy that initially escaped from it being early morning. I was understanding that the book series was catering towards the new NWN game.

    The post was written in a 20 minute gap, aside from my misunderstandings of the intent of the books, the conflicts in wording are not intentional. At the time I hadn't gone back to check their updated post, it appears now they have clarified the question at hand, on the original reading it was still just a copypaste of the extended FAQ that did not cover what was being asked.

    Reading back it would have just been easier to go with the final point rather than over explaining everything.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neyari wrote: »
    I called myself going in and editing out the idiocy that initially escaped from it being early morning. I was understanding that the book series was catering towards the new NWN game.
    ...
    .

    Was just trying to point out a few things which might have confused the other readers. If you are looking into those points and correcting it, then the purpose of me pointing out was solved and I would clean up my previous post.

    Again, I have no argument about your opinions, just the few facts which can confuse other readers who read your post.
  • lilura138lilura138 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I personally would like to see Drow available since Hero of the North got an exclusive Menzoberranzan Drow
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