TESO is boring old EQ/WoW style combat. Its strength will be the story and setting, which I don't care about. So Neverwinter is the obvious winner for me. Although Pay for Power is a big concern to me here. Too much of it (and it's obvious that there is some, in spite of what was said) and I'll lose interest. But I doubt I'll bother with TESO either way.
No it isn't....
TESO is using aimed combat with blocking the same as Neverwinter, but probably less spammy and more strategic.
TESO is a real open world with huge areas, neverwinter is mostly all instanced small areas.
TESO has real PVP in open world areas to fight for land and power, neverwinter has instanced PVP.
TESO will have better graphics overall, Neverwinter's graphics are also nice, but not all that impressive for the small areas that load when you see games like TERA already out years with better graphics y far in huge area and an open world.
TESO will have more classes and much more depth and creativity on how you can build your character. You can choose a spell casting mage that uses a 2 hand sword and metal armor for example.
IDK where you get your info, but TESO seems much,, much more like a "The Game" candidate than neverwinter which seems like a side game.
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amorraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Both settings have devoted followers. Both games will suffer heavy criticism from some of the more 'hardcore' followers. For me, the charm of the ES games lay in the player created content more than the base developer content. So chances are I will find TESO to be lacking to my personal taste. (I am not talking about a system like the foundry but rather custom graphics, gears, alterations to the story, new/adjusted skills and so forth.) There are some ES fans who have never touched the base game's story but rather went directly for the player made content.
Expectations for TESO is fairly high, and there is still a chance they could botch things up badly. (Game-play decisions, rather than making a broken game.)
Most of the expectations for Neverwinter comes from people expecting a pen and paper experience (or something close) in an MMO. This is something that didn't happen and has a lot of people upset. But the game itself isn't very bad thus far. (Very linear, KSing issues, and no real control over your abilities beyond feats. Which do not seem to make a great impact thus far.) But most of the complaints always tie back to "It isn't D&D!".
We would have to wait a couple of months for the population of either game to stabilize to determine just which one is more popular. A lot of people go for the shiny new toys and stop playing with them as soon as the next shiny toy is announced. I feel TESO will have a higher population, for the moment. All depends on what direction they take with certain elements.
As hyped as I am for ESO, it's at the very least a year away from release. I'll probably play NW for now, I get bored quickly so I'm guessing within 3-6 months I'll have moved to something else.
Comparing oranges to apples is fine I guess, everyone has their tastes, but it's nothing to get all riled up about.
There has been several interviews with devs and such at Zenimax that have stated they're planning to release this year. The fact that they should be starting closed beta within the next month or so provides enough proof for me to take them at their words. Now releasing in 2013 is almost a year since this year just began, but I'm not sure it's "at the very least a year away from release". It may be, but for now I'll take the developers at their words.
I'm excited for both games. They are probably far enough away from each other release-wise - hoping for NWO in April/May and ESO probably in October or later - that there's no reason both can't be played. I'm not the type to play two games at once (particularly MMO type games) so I'll probably play NWO for a while and if it overlaps with ESO I'll just make a decision at that time as to which game I'd rather play. It might come down to ESO's purchase model. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay a $15/mo. sub fee again anymore. A smaller sub fee, maybe. Since we won't know much about that until probably very close to release, that decision will have to wait. On the other hand, I'm not planning on spending $60 (much less $200) on NWO before having played it.
I've watched quite a few videos and streams of NWO and it looks like a lot of fun. The discussions/interviews about what ESO might be sound like it might be great too. I watched countless streams and videos and commentaries of Diablo 3, SW:TOR, and GW2 before they all came out and when I finally played them all they ultimately fell flat for me. I don't think I played any of them for more than 2 months - and SW:TOR only made it two months because I forgot to cancel my sub before the first re-bill. As a result of those experiences, I'm trying to keep my expectations lower, not to get caught up in the hype, and to not buy into the games prematurely. I'm hoping both games will be great though, because more great games only means good things for the industry as a whole.
With the new developer blog posts about Neverwinter being 100% FREE TO PLAY, I think the original post needs some adjusting. But to be a part of the argument, they are different games for different people. I'm willing to bet more people try neverwinter due to it's completely free model, too bad TESO won't do the same.
I would not bet against TESO.... Bethesda is the best game dev company out there and wins more awards and has more money resources and talent that just about anyone..
I believe they have won more game of the year awards than anyone.. as a computer tech and a ex 3d graphics guy I can tell u their latest games are top notch and the mechanics and effects are excellent not to mention the stability, which is why ID games, Microsoft Bioware etc and others all work with them.
oblivion, skyrim, dishonored, Rage and fallout are titans in gaming history and no doubt Teso will win MMO of the year watch..
Yeah, that's what they said about EA and BioWare, when TOR was being developed.
I'll probably give this game a fair shake, but ESO is likely gonna toss this game aside for me. It really depends on what that game plays like, and what this one plays like.
Hero of the North pack you get the drow with "farie fire" spell exclusive only to that drow. Also those specific pets to those who paid. So unless you paid $200 for the pack you dont get that specific drow nor do you get that spell nor the black panther companion who fights. pay to win?? and that is just the start of it. You will have to buy xp boosters just like in PW, pet specific items to tame/train them, so on and so forth. F2P but not F2W only P2W
Let us count out the ways that you are wrong and how your definition of pay 2 win for Neverwinter is completely wrong.
First the drow back round is just that, its a back round and while we don't know the details for the spell my guess is its the recolored version that Drizzt uses so people can "feel like" him.
Second, companions are free at lvl 16 as well as the enhance stones that drop for them (from vendors and drops). Training for pets is free and if you keep a stable of (4) companions you will never have to spend astral diamonds to speed up their training (I never did and I got 4 companions to lvl 20 in 3 days).
Third the xp boosters are going to be a none issue with how the games leveling pace is at the moment, I got lvl 30 in one day or about 8 hours of playing and learning the game and that was on a cleric that does less dmg than the other classes.
And finally lets just put this astral diamond debate to rest already, prices for items have not been set in stone and I don't even understand how people can have a problem with them in general. Sure people have a head start on you if they paid for the founders packs (125,000) and (750,00) respectfully. But you need to understand that they give you so many options to gain diamonds for free its like they are paying you to play the game. For example since its the auction house currency you can literally get drops and sell them for the currency then convert it to zen and its like free money.
I will give you all a quick example of how many diamonds I made in 3 days on 2 characters not counting my pack astral diamonds. I made a total of 27,000 astral diamonds off of just Invoking (a free once every hour ability that gives you an xp boost/dmg boost and astral diamonds) during my three days, and I also made about 17k off of the AH alone, and that was just at lvl 30 on my cleric. If you have trouble with math that is 44,000 astral diamonds that I made in a matter of 3 days and that's before you even hit level cap where you can do more events for even more free diamonds and such.
You all need to realize that giving a group of players the ability to push currency into the economy is amazing for you.People with money to burn in their pockets is the best thing for a new game these people will buy your things off the AH for their companions/character and other stuff, especially if you don't want to buy the currency with cash, its pure economics and its going to help you more than hurt you. This game is so far from P2W its funny that people still try to throw the term around .
Go play a real pay 2 win game like Allods online and then come tell me that Neverwinter is pay 2 win , you will never have to drop 600$ to compete in Neverwinter.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Credit: Syreian: Devient Art
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atalantamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
TESO won't have the Foundry. That in itself will launch Neverwinter to greatness. Why? content will be pumping out from the community constantly. While after 3 months in TESO, there won't be any left until the next patch which may come for another 3 months. Most MMO's just can't hold the attention from gamers because of this and are forced to go F2P. Neverwinter is off to a great start in my opinion
TESO won't have the Foundry. That in itself will launch Neverwinter to greatness. Why? content will be pumping out from the community constantly. While after 3 months in TESO, there won't be any left until the next patch which may come for another 3 months. Most MMO's just can't hold the attention from gamers because of this and are forced to go F2P. Neverwinter is off to a great start in my opinion
Dont say yet we dont know what those adventure zones are yet. As for player-made-content its been one of the hot topics in last 5 year, so you never know.
Even SOE promises player-made-content for Everquest Next.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Apples, oranges. They may both be fantasy but both are different games. Don't read too much into it.
Going by what Cryptic already do over on Star Trek Online they will likely have special events that allow you to gain a spec
ial weapon or mount for a very limited time and then push it onto the cash shop at some point for those who missed it. All of these items tend to be things that you can totally live without, do i want a sword that glows green or a wolf that has a different colour of fur? I dont mind paying to make something look a little more unique and i think most people will be the same, at this moment in time there is no evidence that points towards me paying cash and getting something way better than anyone else.
Indeed. It's "pay for power" that will be a part of the game when it's released, not just something happening with Founder's Packs. Thus, my concern.
My understanding is that astral diamonds buy powerful items in-game:
Therefore, selling astral diamonds for cash is blatantly "pay for power". Whether they can be gotten in-game or not is entirely tangential to whether or not it's "pay for power".
It's not a question of "if" there's "pay for power" in Neverwinter, only the degree of it.
Nope. AD are easily obtainable for free, and while you can save up MILLIONS and get items that are for capped l 60 characters, it won't cause a disparity for other users in pay to OP.
Astral Diamonds are equivalent to Dilithium in Star Trek Online, a currency that can be farmed by players with more time than money and sold to players with more money than time. In STO it has been an excellent way to bridge the two kinds of players. Early in the game there was much of the same angst we're seeing in this thread - the controversy has died away to a constant low rumble.
Regardless, one does not have to have dilithium (and I assume Astral Diamonds) for PvE, and for end-game PvP it is useful but as usual not critical when one considers build skill is more important.
Dilithium is most important for non-combat things like housing. Get into a large enough guild and that won't matter as much.
Real point: Cryptic has been honing this approach for awhile now and most customers familiar with it like it.
Nothing anyone can say right now will mellow folks out, you'll just have to experience it like many already have before you can really decide.
Why let facts ruin a good rant with no basis in gaming reality? Seriously TY though. QFT.
The scrolls you need to enchant your items can become extremely powerful. By combining 4 together you get the next tier of scroll..by combining 4 of those you get the next tier...and so on and so on. When fuzing them together, the higher the level, the more chance of failure....unless you add a stone that helps with success. Anyone know if these "stones" will drop in game or will they have to be purchased in the ingame store? Im thinking ingame store. Which wont make this game neccessarily pay to win...it will just make the game pay to faceroll.
Very likely NOT dropping and the "failure reduction" stones MT only.
Seriously, almost everything assumed in this thread can be found with a little effort, then again, most people who complain don't usually want to put forth effort, they just want free stuff and want to cry when they don't get it.
Yep. While the enchantments drop, if they are attached to an item and upgraded past a certain level, THEN it costs AD to remove them from an item.
And folks, you use ZEN NOT Astral Diamonds to buy slots, bags and stuff. Zen is exchanged the same way it is in CO and STO on an exchange rate that fluctuates. Or buy ZEN with RL money. If you want to buy everything, buy ZEN, buy your stuff and trade the rest for AD and buy stuff that way.
Which is fine since nothing gives you an advantage notable to other players who don't have that stuff or can't earn AD to convert to items directly or to ZEN.
Apples, oranges. They may both be fantasy but both are different games. Don't read too much into it.
Speaking about reading too much into it:
While not events, this is correct.
Nope. AD are easily obtainable for free, and while you can save up MILLIONS and get items that are for capped l 60 characters, it won't cause a disparity for other users in pay to OP.
Why let facts ruin a good rant with no basis in gaming reality? Seriously TY though. QFT.
Very likely NOT dropping and the "failure reduction" stones MT only.
Yep. While the enchantments drop, if they are attached to an item and upgraded past a certain level, THEN it costs AD to remove them from an item.
And folks, you use ZEN NOT Astral Diamonds to buy slots, bags and stuff. Zen is exchanged the same way it is in CO and STO on an exchange rate that fluctuates. Or buy ZEN with RL money. If you want to buy everything, buy ZEN, buy your stuff and trade the rest for AD and buy stuff that way.
Which is fine since nothing gives you an advantage notable to other players who don't have that stuff or can't earn AD to convert to items directly or to ZEN.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression you obtained rough AD and then had to refine it (just as you must refine dilithium) to make it into a currency that you could then use to buy stuff and there was a limit on how much you can refine per day. If this is indeed the case then no matter how much you farm every day you are still limited on how much of it you can actually get that is usable every day.
I just wonder how similiar this whole system is to STO because the way it works there these days drove me to quit STO real fast All high level gear requires a minimum of 15k+ refined dilithium and you can only refine 8k per day so no matter how much you play or work at it each day you can still only get 1 upgrade every 2 days (some even longer than 2days). This was made even worse when so many other things started requiring refined dilithium as well (fleet projects to advance it and such). I just hope Neverwinter doesn't put such a severe time restriction on obtaining actual gear and such as STO does.
"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hero of the North pack you get the drow with "farie fire" spell exclusive only to that drow. Also those specific pets to those who paid. So unless you paid $200 for the pack you dont get that specific drow nor do you get that spell nor the black panther companion who fights. pay to win?? and that is just the start of it. You will have to buy xp boosters just like in PW, pet specific items to tame/train them, so on and so forth. F2P but not F2W only P2W
A cosmetic spell that lights up your enemies, and a unique looking pet aren't p2w- maybe you should actually play a p2w game before you start calling everything you don't understand p2w.
Pets, mounts are going to be easily accessed things in game.
If it was p2w, you'd be able to either buy high end gear that takes a lot of effort to attain, or buy boosts to damage/stats that aren't available for normal players.
So unless you want to put up your actual proof that the shop is going to offer such advantages- quit spreading lies.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Also- TESO looks like WoW 2.0- already it's pretty clear they've gone away from what we saw in Skyrim/Oblivion to make yet another clone nobody wants. Didn't work for SWTOR- won't work for TESO.
Why is TESO so popular? Well- same reason SWTOR was- huge IP with a rabid fanbase.
Consider the fanbase for D&D 4e... I don't know personally a single person who thinks 4e is anything but garbage compared to 3.5. That, and it's a lower budget/hype game in general- naturally it's going to get much less hype.
TESO will be popular enough- simply because it's Elder Scrolls; it doesn't matter what they do, how bad it is; it's a huge IP that's going to get a huge following.
That isn't to say which'll be better- there's little on both games honestly right now- and judging from many of the assumptions this game is p2w without any proof- most of what people think of the game are from their imagination more than actual information.
correct me if am wrong... cant u not get astral diamonds from mid and higher end questing?...no money spent, just time invested if u find the game enjoyable
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agahnimzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited March 2013
Apples and oranges! There is room in my heart for both!!
Apples and oranges! There is room in my heart for both!!
Agreed, but also, ESO is at a severe disadvantage without dwarves.
I think NWO will be a major success (in the long term), if Cryptic doesn't bail on fleshing out the game after launch, as they have done in the past.
Agreed, but also, ESO is at a severe disadvantage without dwarves.
I think NWO will be a major success (in the long term), if Cryptic doesn't bail on fleshing out the game after launch, as they have done in the past.
Well from the way things look on the rest of the forum.. Dwarves should be the least of their worries.. as long as ESO have Drow at launch, they should be okay!
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agahnimzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
Agreed, but also, ESO is at a severe disadvantage without dwarves.
I think NWO will be a major success (in the long term), if Cryptic doesn't bail on fleshing out the game after launch, as they have done in the past.
I am all about the dwarves myself. Skyrim was my first foray into the Elder Scroll world and I was so disappointed that the dwarven race was gone. Glad someone made a playable dwarf race mod!
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muzrub333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
TESO is not even on my radar. 3 faction PvP, forced region lock outs...I'll pass thanks. Of course I might end up passing on NWO as well, only time will tell. if it can keep me interested until EQN(3), Archeage, or even Wildstar come out, I'll be happy to give them some of my money.
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fermiMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Consider the fanbase for D&D 4e... I don't know personally a single person who thinks 4e is anything but garbage compared to 3.5.
Personally, I think 3.5 was garbage compared to 4. The rules were loopy, the balance almost nonexistent, and on and on. 4 was streamlined and straightforward. Even Pathfinder makes me wince these days. So many problems.
Personally, I think 3.5 was garbage compared to 4. The rules were loopy, the balance almost nonexistent, and on and on. 4 was streamlined and straightforward. Even Pathfinder makes me wince these days. So many problems.
But to each their own.
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm pretty firmly in the 4E camp, though. Still, there was some really good stuff in 3E that I miss. (I actually consider Star Wars Saga Edition to be the best D20 variant).
Next is shaping up well so far. I'm very intrigued by it. It's got the facets of 3E I liked and a number of things from 4E that I like.
But, to the point of the OP, TESO doesn't really interest me. The Elder Scrolls as a whole doesn't really interest me. There are a number of fantasy settings I find much more interesting. Forgotten Realms is one, Norrath is another. And then there's the fact that I've never truly loved an Elder Scrolls game. I don't view those games as filled with stuff I can do so much as filled with stuff I must do. I didn't start in on the story for Oblivion until I was level 18, and since I had focused all my skills on sneaking around, I literally could not win the Kvatch attack. That soured me on the entire game. I enjoyed Skyrim mostly because I ignored a lot of side quests and kept going on the main story path.
TESO also looks like a PvP game to me, and I am not a PvPer. I prefer coop games, which is why I like MMOs. I like to work with other people rather than against them. (And, no, working with other people against another group isn't fun to me for the most part.)
I may do both, depending on how much TESO costs. I've been a huge fan of both Forgotten Realms (since Baldur's Gate) and Elder Scrolls (since Daggerfall), but I may not be able to afford TESO. F2P I can handle! I'm usually too cheap to pay box/subscription cost unless I really like a game. As for pay to win, I solo'd a lot of content last weekend and had no trouble. I even started selling healing potions because I didn't need them! They'd have to ramp up the difficulty a lot for this game to actually be P2W, and remove a lot of content that allows for purchasing items with currency earned in-game.
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rohk007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I can play 2 MMOs at once. I am hoping Neverwinter keeps adding content and upgrades like they do in STO. If they do that I can see this being main for along time
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited March 2013
I also like 4.0 a lot better than 3.5, but it took me a long time to come around to that. Mostly because I play casters, and 3rd edition DnD is pretty much "play a caster or go home" edition. But 4.0 took class balance pretty seriously, and added a lot of interesting battlefield/threat control mechanics to melee characters. It also reduced the amount of unnecessary dice rolls in combat - what equates to 2 minutes of combat time in the game no longer takes over an hour of discussing rules for grappling and rolling handfuls of dice.
But the DnD crowd is by and large an older crowd, and you know what they say about old dogs learning new tricks. Every single new edition of DnD has been poorly received in its first iteration, and I doubt DnD next will go any better.
Anyways, as I stated in a similar thread, the Elder Scrolls series was something of a one-hit-wonder for me. I liked Morrowind, and everything since then has been a disappointment. TESO looks like a bland, generic fantasy MMO with region locking, faction and race locking - nothing like the (only) Elder Scrolls game I liked. I have yet to see what the combat will really be like but frankly I'm not expecting much from it.
I also can play 2 mmos at once. I'm playing a lot of Star Trek Online right now. I only recently started playing it - and for all the problems I hear they had at launch, the game is quite exceptional right now. It really has a lot going for it, and playing it has given me the utmost confidence in Cryptic to deliver a very enjoyable Neverwinter.
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losse1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
When I saw NWO i thought wow that looks like how i envisioned TESO combat to be. I saw TESO info first.
I plan to play both, time will tell which i play more but they both look awesome so why not, especially since NWO is free.
I think TESO has more following because, lets face it, the D&D franchise has sort of dropped the ball on keeping up with quality games lately, at least IMHO. There hasn't really been a game as cool as NWN2 since 2007 in D&D worlds imo. While ES series Skyrim (aka Skycrack) is a huge new game (1 year old) with TONS of mods and new expansions all integrated into steam. I know its different single player and stuff but still...
"The sum of the whole is this: walk and be happy; walk and be healthy. The best way to lengthen out our days is to walk steadily and with a purpose." -Charles Dickens
TESO is going to be an awesome game. I'll be supporting it. Im not to happy though that the races are bound to their respected factions. Always had a love for High Elves and their background/culture but most of my friends play Orc, Nord, Breton, and Redguard and I know they will be rolling those races. Wont be able to play together and unfortunately this time I or my mates will not make a compromise.
Hero of the North pack you get the drow with "farie fire" spell exclusive only to that drow. Also those specific pets to those who paid. So unless you paid $200 for the pack you dont get that specific drow nor do you get that spell nor the black panther companion who fights. pay to win?? and that is just the start of it. You will have to buy xp boosters just like in PW, pet specific items to tame/train them, so on and so forth. F2P but not F2W only P2W
Quick everyone, grab your tinfoil hats! Really now, just no.
Comments
No it isn't....
TESO is using aimed combat with blocking the same as Neverwinter, but probably less spammy and more strategic.
TESO is a real open world with huge areas, neverwinter is mostly all instanced small areas.
TESO has real PVP in open world areas to fight for land and power, neverwinter has instanced PVP.
TESO will have better graphics overall, Neverwinter's graphics are also nice, but not all that impressive for the small areas that load when you see games like TERA already out years with better graphics y far in huge area and an open world.
TESO will have more classes and much more depth and creativity on how you can build your character. You can choose a spell casting mage that uses a 2 hand sword and metal armor for example.
IDK where you get your info, but TESO seems much,, much more like a "The Game" candidate than neverwinter which seems like a side game.
Expectations for TESO is fairly high, and there is still a chance they could botch things up badly. (Game-play decisions, rather than making a broken game.)
Most of the expectations for Neverwinter comes from people expecting a pen and paper experience (or something close) in an MMO. This is something that didn't happen and has a lot of people upset. But the game itself isn't very bad thus far. (Very linear, KSing issues, and no real control over your abilities beyond feats. Which do not seem to make a great impact thus far.) But most of the complaints always tie back to "It isn't D&D!".
We would have to wait a couple of months for the population of either game to stabilize to determine just which one is more popular. A lot of people go for the shiny new toys and stop playing with them as soon as the next shiny toy is announced. I feel TESO will have a higher population, for the moment. All depends on what direction they take with certain elements.
Comparing oranges to apples is fine I guess, everyone has their tastes, but it's nothing to get all riled up about.
I'm excited for both games. They are probably far enough away from each other release-wise - hoping for NWO in April/May and ESO probably in October or later - that there's no reason both can't be played. I'm not the type to play two games at once (particularly MMO type games) so I'll probably play NWO for a while and if it overlaps with ESO I'll just make a decision at that time as to which game I'd rather play. It might come down to ESO's purchase model. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay a $15/mo. sub fee again anymore. A smaller sub fee, maybe. Since we won't know much about that until probably very close to release, that decision will have to wait. On the other hand, I'm not planning on spending $60 (much less $200) on NWO before having played it.
I've watched quite a few videos and streams of NWO and it looks like a lot of fun. The discussions/interviews about what ESO might be sound like it might be great too. I watched countless streams and videos and commentaries of Diablo 3, SW:TOR, and GW2 before they all came out and when I finally played them all they ultimately fell flat for me. I don't think I played any of them for more than 2 months - and SW:TOR only made it two months because I forgot to cancel my sub before the first re-bill. As a result of those experiences, I'm trying to keep my expectations lower, not to get caught up in the hype, and to not buy into the games prematurely. I'm hoping both games will be great though, because more great games only means good things for the industry as a whole.
Yeah, that's what they said about EA and BioWare, when TOR was being developed.
Personally, I'm favoring ESO over NWO.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Let us count out the ways that you are wrong and how your definition of pay 2 win for Neverwinter is completely wrong.
First the drow back round is just that, its a back round and while we don't know the details for the spell my guess is its the recolored version that Drizzt uses so people can "feel like" him.
Second, companions are free at lvl 16 as well as the enhance stones that drop for them (from vendors and drops). Training for pets is free and if you keep a stable of (4) companions you will never have to spend astral diamonds to speed up their training (I never did and I got 4 companions to lvl 20 in 3 days).
Third the xp boosters are going to be a none issue with how the games leveling pace is at the moment, I got lvl 30 in one day or about 8 hours of playing and learning the game and that was on a cleric that does less dmg than the other classes.
And finally lets just put this astral diamond debate to rest already, prices for items have not been set in stone and I don't even understand how people can have a problem with them in general. Sure people have a head start on you if they paid for the founders packs (125,000) and (750,00) respectfully. But you need to understand that they give you so many options to gain diamonds for free its like they are paying you to play the game. For example since its the auction house currency you can literally get drops and sell them for the currency then convert it to zen and its like free money.
I will give you all a quick example of how many diamonds I made in 3 days on 2 characters not counting my pack astral diamonds. I made a total of 27,000 astral diamonds off of just Invoking (a free once every hour ability that gives you an xp boost/dmg boost and astral diamonds) during my three days, and I also made about 17k off of the AH alone, and that was just at lvl 30 on my cleric. If you have trouble with math that is 44,000 astral diamonds that I made in a matter of 3 days and that's before you even hit level cap where you can do more events for even more free diamonds and such.
You all need to realize that giving a group of players the ability to push currency into the economy is amazing for you.People with money to burn in their pockets is the best thing for a new game these people will buy your things off the AH for their companions/character and other stuff, especially if you don't want to buy the currency with cash, its pure economics and its going to help you more than hurt you. This game is so far from P2W its funny that people still try to throw the term around .
Go play a real pay 2 win game like Allods online and then come tell me that Neverwinter is pay 2 win , you will never have to drop 600$ to compete in Neverwinter.
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Dont say yet we dont know what those adventure zones are yet. As for player-made-content its been one of the hot topics in last 5 year, so you never know.
Even SOE promises player-made-content for Everquest Next.
Speaking about reading too much into it:
While not events, this is correct.
Nope. AD are easily obtainable for free, and while you can save up MILLIONS and get items that are for capped l 60 characters, it won't cause a disparity for other users in pay to OP.
Why let facts ruin a good rant with no basis in gaming reality? Seriously TY though. QFT.
Very likely NOT dropping and the "failure reduction" stones MT only.
Yep. While the enchantments drop, if they are attached to an item and upgraded past a certain level, THEN it costs AD to remove them from an item.
And folks, you use ZEN NOT Astral Diamonds to buy slots, bags and stuff. Zen is exchanged the same way it is in CO and STO on an exchange rate that fluctuates. Or buy ZEN with RL money. If you want to buy everything, buy ZEN, buy your stuff and trade the rest for AD and buy stuff that way.
Which is fine since nothing gives you an advantage notable to other players who don't have that stuff or can't earn AD to convert to items directly or to ZEN.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression you obtained rough AD and then had to refine it (just as you must refine dilithium) to make it into a currency that you could then use to buy stuff and there was a limit on how much you can refine per day. If this is indeed the case then no matter how much you farm every day you are still limited on how much of it you can actually get that is usable every day.
I just wonder how similiar this whole system is to STO because the way it works there these days drove me to quit STO real fast
A cosmetic spell that lights up your enemies, and a unique looking pet aren't p2w- maybe you should actually play a p2w game before you start calling everything you don't understand p2w.
Pets, mounts are going to be easily accessed things in game.
If it was p2w, you'd be able to either buy high end gear that takes a lot of effort to attain, or buy boosts to damage/stats that aren't available for normal players.
So unless you want to put up your actual proof that the shop is going to offer such advantages- quit spreading lies.
Why is TESO so popular? Well- same reason SWTOR was- huge IP with a rabid fanbase.
Consider the fanbase for D&D 4e... I don't know personally a single person who thinks 4e is anything but garbage compared to 3.5. That, and it's a lower budget/hype game in general- naturally it's going to get much less hype.
TESO will be popular enough- simply because it's Elder Scrolls; it doesn't matter what they do, how bad it is; it's a huge IP that's going to get a huge following.
That isn't to say which'll be better- there's little on both games honestly right now- and judging from many of the assumptions this game is p2w without any proof- most of what people think of the game are from their imagination more than actual information.
Agreed, but also, ESO is at a severe disadvantage without dwarves.
I think NWO will be a major success (in the long term), if Cryptic doesn't bail on fleshing out the game after launch, as they have done in the past.
Skuli Ketilson (3.5 Character Sheet)
Well from the way things look on the rest of the forum.. Dwarves should be the least of their worries.. as long as ESO have Drow at launch, they should be okay!
I am all about the dwarves myself. Skyrim was my first foray into the Elder Scroll world and I was so disappointed that the dwarven race was gone. Glad someone made a playable dwarf race mod!
Personally, I think 3.5 was garbage compared to 4. The rules were loopy, the balance almost nonexistent, and on and on. 4 was streamlined and straightforward. Even Pathfinder makes me wince these days. So many problems.
But to each their own.
Next is shaping up well so far. I'm very intrigued by it. It's got the facets of 3E I liked and a number of things from 4E that I like.
But, to the point of the OP, TESO doesn't really interest me. The Elder Scrolls as a whole doesn't really interest me. There are a number of fantasy settings I find much more interesting. Forgotten Realms is one, Norrath is another. And then there's the fact that I've never truly loved an Elder Scrolls game. I don't view those games as filled with stuff I can do so much as filled with stuff I must do. I didn't start in on the story for Oblivion until I was level 18, and since I had focused all my skills on sneaking around, I literally could not win the Kvatch attack. That soured me on the entire game. I enjoyed Skyrim mostly because I ignored a lot of side quests and kept going on the main story path.
TESO also looks like a PvP game to me, and I am not a PvPer. I prefer coop games, which is why I like MMOs. I like to work with other people rather than against them. (And, no, working with other people against another group isn't fun to me for the most part.)
But the DnD crowd is by and large an older crowd, and you know what they say about old dogs learning new tricks. Every single new edition of DnD has been poorly received in its first iteration, and I doubt DnD next will go any better.
Anyways, as I stated in a similar thread, the Elder Scrolls series was something of a one-hit-wonder for me. I liked Morrowind, and everything since then has been a disappointment. TESO looks like a bland, generic fantasy MMO with region locking, faction and race locking - nothing like the (only) Elder Scrolls game I liked. I have yet to see what the combat will really be like but frankly I'm not expecting much from it.
I also can play 2 mmos at once. I'm playing a lot of Star Trek Online right now. I only recently started playing it - and for all the problems I hear they had at launch, the game is quite exceptional right now. It really has a lot going for it, and playing it has given me the utmost confidence in Cryptic to deliver a very enjoyable Neverwinter.
I plan to play both, time will tell which i play more but they both look awesome so why not, especially since NWO is free.
I think TESO has more following because, lets face it, the D&D franchise has sort of dropped the ball on keeping up with quality games lately, at least IMHO. There hasn't really been a game as cool as NWN2 since 2007 in D&D worlds imo. While ES series Skyrim (aka Skycrack) is a huge new game (1 year old) with TONS of mods and new expansions all integrated into steam. I know its different single player and stuff but still...
aka rakshasa and lizardmen style races and orcs, dragonborne, and a very customizable classes trees etc
Quick everyone, grab your tinfoil hats! Really now, just no.