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TESO vs. Neverwinter
maddmister
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
OK so what do you all think, TESO or Neverwinter? 995k likes/followers on facebook for TESO vs 35k for Neverwinter, hmm. I dont know but pay to win (neverwinter) definitely puts a huge red mark on this game for me and will shy the majority of folks away. Dont make a game F2P and then make them have to buy items in shop to "win". I would rather purchase the game for $60 outright than do that. So which will be the hero and who the goat? just my 2cents
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Are My Masters!
Are My Masters!
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That said, can you please link a reference to Neverwinter being a play-to-win game? The Dev's have repeatedly explained that would not be the case; check out nearly any video where there is a Cryptic staff showing off the game. And on these forums, this has been discussed many times, always with a quote or comment from a Dev directly, stating that they plan to stay away from P2W.
So if this has changed and you have some inside info, please share!
Thanks!
I was in the Beta..where did you get "pay to win" from? Or is it just what you tell yourself to skip this game straight to TESO?
Anyway, TESO have only tested _______________ (NDA) in closed beta so far so it is a game that won't see the light until at least the end of the year while Neverwinter might start as early as April.
One last note....are you seriously comparing TES popularity to Neverwinter?
Edit: People are saying TES = WoW or somthing like it...you guys have no idea....as in, one hell of surprise awaits you if you ever get in because it is something..FRESH.
Are My Masters!
I do like ESO's character creation alot better, but I love the fact that NWO is content heavy with the Foundry and I feel ESO will be great while playing or leveling up but their endgame will be all about PvP and Raiding and that leaves me to fall away from a game within months after reaching level cap. NWO on the otherhand has plenty of content to keep me busy as log as the DM's continue to churn out Foundry missions.
Character is what a man is in the dark
Don't care really about the race or spell. It's a race after all it. I played the game and I can tell you Racial bounces are not game breaking or anything that would make you think "HAMSTER I should have picked that race instead of this"
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I find that "pay to win" is a tricky phrase. People take it mean a wide variety of things. To me, it's synonymous with "pay for power". I.e., any mechanical game advantage that can be purchased with real money is, to me, "pay to win", to at least some degree.
The founder's packs are blatantly pay for power. The astral diamonds alone qualify.
It's a question of degree of "pay for power", and thus "pay to win", there will be here. Not if.
Actually, as long as that alternative spell is balanced with the free Drow, and the companion is balanced with the free companions, I don't think it's pay to win. I don't have a problem with selling races and classes, as long as they aren't a boost in power compared to what's available by playing the game. Getting that right is tricky, of course, but at least possible
In contrast, "more astral diamonds" cannot possibly be balanced with "less astral diamonds", so selling astral diamonds for cash is clearly "pay for power".
When you end your quest of labeling this game as P2W just because you say so, tell me. Bcause I'm sure than more than a few will never play a cent and still reach max level and get top gear. Also, are not subcription games Pay to Win? Because if you don't pay the subscription, you cannot win!!! (neither log in!) And don't we pay for all the games? My electricity isn't free! Or my internet!!
First world problems...
There is already a TON of misinformation out about the game. I don't understand why that is. Do people just want to try to drive folks away from the game? If NWO launches and releases content at a good rate (including classes and races) and doesn't make you pay, that may go a long way in getting some of these detractors back, but there can be a great deal of damage done just by people spreading this ridiculous misinformation.
Twinking has been available in a ton of games without a type of Cash Store and generally P2W matters only at endgame. If a person wants to make their leveling easier by paying $ for an item equivalent to a rare drop at their level, then they should be able to.
Indeed. It's "pay for power" that will be a part of the game when it's released, not just something happening with Founder's Packs. Thus, my concern.
My understanding is that astral diamonds buy powerful items in-game:
Therefore, selling astral diamonds for cash is blatantly "pay for power". Whether they can be gotten in-game or not is entirely tangential to whether or not it's "pay for power".
It's not a question of "if" there's "pay for power" in Neverwinter, only the degree of it.
Agree. And even in the pen & paper game you buy the materials. You invest in the game. It's not necessary to play; sure you can play without the books, but it is sure hard to argue the rules with the DM or other players that way. And your friends will get pretty bothered if you are always bumming from them to use their dice (and books). In essence, you are "paying" to get the advantage, or even the upper hand. No? That's very much how I see it. If Cryptic wants to charge for some convenience items that I can still get for myself in game, then who and how is that hurting? Ok, so it'll be my own definition of hurting next. In the end it's a no win argument to have, but this is my view on it.
Still, to maddmister, I'm betting on NWO.
Regardless, one does not have to have dilithium (and I assume Astral Diamonds) for PvE, and for end-game PvP it is useful but as usual not critical when one considers build skill is more important.
Dilithium is most important for non-combat things like housing. Get into a large enough guild and that won't matter as much.
Real point: Cryptic has been honing this approach for awhile now and most customers familiar with it like it.
Nothing anyone can say right now will mellow folks out, you'll just have to experience it like many already have before you can really decide.
And if the only thing you can buy with Astral Diamonds is cosmetic items, convenience items and things like character slots, are the astral diamonds still "pay for power"?
You're paying for the game, to be able to play the game. Not to gain advantage within it. There's nothing wrong with that.
The analog of "pay for power" or "pay to win" in PnP would be bribing your DM for more XP, treasure, or other special treatment in-game. I would think the problems here would be obvious.
Depends on the definition of "convenience items" (this is often a cloak for "pay for power" items), but potentially, no, they wouldn't be. But as far as I know, that's not the case.
You put it far better than i did in my previous posts, agree 100% and i know that once the game is properly out and people see how it works all of the angst will die out.
Now I didn't explore the whole game, but I didn't see one this weekend.
This is the ramblings of someone with no proof saying "This is how it is!!!!", put up or shut up. Any verifiable concrete evidence that Astral Diamonds buy or will buy powerful items I will take as evidence I am wrong and you are right.
I linked the information I have on the subject. If you believe that poster was incorrect, I have no basis to disagree with you.
But expecting people to recall and name singular items, especially now that the weekend is over, is silly and an unnecessary standard to establish the basic facts under discussion. That poster says he saw "good stuff" being sold for astral diamonds. I'm inclined to believe him. Perhaps you just didn't run into the right vendor?
I am expressing concerns under the basis of the best information I have available. I do not know for certain that "this is how it is". But I'm concerned that it is.
If the premise of my argument is wrong (i.e., astral diamonds do not buy powerful in-game items), then my conclusion may be incorrect. I can only assert with certainty the validity of my argument, not its soundness.
Well it's okay to disagree and have a difference of opinion; that's what this really is. So, coming from that place, when I used to play PnP, supplemental rules were in. If we could find source, we could argue it. So if I wanted, on the weekend I could march down to the local comic book store, go to the D&D counter, and buy me'self a rare and sought after magazine article with a new supplemental rule on this or that. To win an argument in a PnP game that would maybe get me through the next TPK.
That, to me, was pay to win.
So regarding NWO, let's wait for them to finish writing the book before we begin to tearing apart the fine print.
Likes are pretty irrelevant, at least to me. It's a known fact that Bethesda invests more into marketing and hype than into designing good games. And from past experiences, it's clear that the game will be riddled with bugs, some game-breaking, which nobody cares to fix while they make more horse armor packs. If that's the kind of game you'd rather play than a stable, good-looking, well-designed game from people who love games and love their work, then feel free *shrug*
As for "pay to win", nobody's seen the final game. There isn't much of a competitive element here, and they've promised to only sell convenience and cosmetics. Even if they sell a bit of power, they promised ALL content to be free, which is great. Unless you have proof that they're doing the opposite, I believe they're right until prover wrong.
P.S. To me, restricting content with valuable loot/special story/etc. to paying customers only is more "pay to win" than selling XP pots or other consumables will ever be.
Astral Diamonds are the Auction House currency. This is unlike STO or CO, and implies two things:
1) There will be a lot more AD in the game than there is Dil or Q in those games.
2) You'll be able to obtain it, albeit in small quantities, merely by auctioning mob drops.
Note that, if you VENDOR those items, you appear to get regular coins; gold, silver, copper.
Neverwinter is actually coming out this year. Probably even by the start of summer. ESO is two years away, at least. And will probably be incredibly outdated by then.
NWO I think is going to be bigger then one thinks. I really didn't think all that much till this weekend. I didn't even play beta but I can tell it looks like a wonderful game. There is think I didn't like(item indenty loot, and actually starting to wonder about companions the more I see them in action), but over all it looks great and alot of fun.
Thats what I think anyway.