So people don't have the right to say what they want on these forums now? Their opinions don't matter? Obviously there is a problem if these topics keep coming up.
Maybe if you ignore them, they wouldn't keep coming to the top of the forums?
My god...it's like reading the lyrics to a Good Charlotte album. :rolleyes: Opinions matter, but crying because you don't like the cost of something really is silly. I detest the price of PRADA purses, but having a girly fit over it isn't going to make the price come down.
No woman should marry before she has slain her tenth man.-:Vartha Do'Urden
My god...it's like reading the lyrics to a Good Charlotte album. :rolleyes: Opinions matter, but crying because you don't like the cost of something really is silly. I detest the price of PRADA purses, but having a girly fit over it isn't going to make the price come down.
There are people who do cry over stuff like that... What's the problem?
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dequixoticMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Selling convenience and cosmetic items for high price isn't pay to win. I don't feel threatened just because some guy has some nice clothes and some scrolls of raise dead to start out. The only way this model works though is to let the developers charge for some things and exploit virtual scarcity. Of all the F2P models this, Path of Exile, and EQ2 are the only ones I like. What would you prefer?
Actually complaining can bring the price down and has on lots of items but I just don't see it happening here.
There are more than just convenience items and cosmetics offered in the packs but I don't see them as game breaking.
As for value when it comes to digital content that is solely in the eye of the beholder and holds true for many other things just more obvious with digital. I personally think the best value is the $20 package with the $200 package being the least value unless your enamored with drow.
Until 2/8/13 everything everyone is complaining about is pure speculation, Until we can actually get into the game and see the cash shop with our own eyes there is no use in complaining. Although I do think a lot of the negative reactions to the founders packs are from people who just cant afford one right now and thus feel left out, or more likely its the group of F2P gamers that want something for nothing which is selfish and doesn't help keep a game running. Just my two cents though.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Credit: Syreian: Devient Art
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j0reelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
Those are for zen coins... are the astral diamonds equivelent in value? I know you can buy zen coins with real cash, so what will the exchange rate be for diamond to zen be?
People also need to realize that the folks spending the money on the packs help facilitate the no-box cost / no sub model they are attempting to pursue.
EXACTLY! Those of us spending the $200 for the HOTN pack are doing so and one of the side benefits is those who don't want to pay the $200, or really anything for that matter, don't have to! WE help fund things like writers, graphic artists, programmers, server maitenance, etc. so everyone else can play the game and not spend anything if they don't want to.
And in return I get a few goodies for my account and my toons and feel good that I helped support the game I anticipate I'm going to thoroughly enjoy since I have been a D&D fan, a Forgotten Realms fan, for a looooong time.
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bluesteel8Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Its not just that,they are annoying because everyone making threads and complaining are not grasping onto anything solid for their arguments. Its all "spending 200$ makes the game pay 2 win, I have no evidence to support this claim or to back it up since I have not actually seen the cash shop yet and what it offers but I am going to say it anyway".
Just want to add this as food for thought. What games that have p2w shops actually come out and admit they have p2w items in it ?
Then again why lie about something like that knowing the backlash that it would cause and all the customers they would loose right from the start. They for sure wont make enough money off of founders packs to get back losses if everyone left the game since they lied about the cash shop.
And no matter what people say from looking around and playing some of Champions online and knowing people that play star trek online the cash shop will be there and it will be pushed, but it will be for Convenience items. (xp boosters comes to mind being a prime example of that). Its like all the people that said the GW2 shop was going to be pay2win and would ruin the game. They all looked really dumb on beta 1 and the release just like the people on here are going to look dumb in a week.
All the founder packs give you is neet mounts and cosmetic items aswell as additional bag slots. in no way are they giving them something to allow them to one shot crit or anything that allows them to be stronger than any other player. the time and energy you put into your character will reflect that.
Then again why lie about something like that knowing the backlash that it would cause and all the customers they would loose right from the start. They for sure wont make enough money off of founders packs to get back losses if everyone left the game since they lied about the cash shop.
And no matter what people say from looking around and playing some of Champions online and knowing people that play star trek online the cash shop will be there and it will be pushed, but it will be for Convenience items. (xp boosters comes to mind being a prime example of that). Its like all the people that said the GW2 shop was going to be pay2win and would ruin the game. They all looked really dumb on beta 1 and the release just like the people on here are going to look dumb in a week.
That's the thing, what is p2w can vary with opinion, a company can claim our shop is not p2w and feel they are telling the truth but have many many of its customer disagree with them who equally feel they are telling the truth.
"Make the the two packs with price 5 and 10$ and you get millions of players whiling to support the game. Make the the price 200$ and you get few subscribers and thousands of raging players."
No, people would still complain that they have to pay a single cent in a F2P game. Also, how happily you left the $60 pack out of the comment, like if only the fat one was there.:p
Looking at other mmos, it is extremely worrying how games are becoming $$$$$$$. I would agree with moondisk how that needs to be critucized. PWE is no exception at all. So whatever Craig said (thanks for the video) we WILL have to spend money If we want to have a lasting and enjoyable game.
But it is better than what happened to the previous version of Neverwinter, which had NO SUPPORT AT ALL. Had they kept on developping Neverwinter Nights, we could have had a better Forgotten Realms MMO, earlier. In fact,10 years earlier. Thats what gets me the most. $$$$$$ commercial publishers, $$$$$$ marketing teams, $$$$$$$$$$$$$ games by the hundreds.
// about whiners: haters suck, period.
That's the thing, what is p2w can vary with opinion, a company can claim our shop is not p2w and feel they are telling the truth but have many many of its customer disagree with them who equally feel they are telling the truth.
Can you give an example of where this has happened? I'd like to see your perspective of what constitutes p2w where a publisher stated the contrary.
Can you give an example of where this has happened? I'd like to see your perspective of what constitutes p2w where a publisher stated the contrary.
I've seen it before. I have seen games sell hefty experience buffs and claim it wasn't pay to win because it was an insignificant buff...Double experience for a week for five dollars is minor. Certainly not pay to win...according to one gaming company that has a game which is 90% grinds for levels.
In that game specific game, infested with months of skill grinding, any experience bonus would be pay to win. I used to be ranked in the top 1K subscribing players out of over two million. Due to them selling experience, either directly or through bonuses, years of work is months now...days if you have the money for it. Stupidly overpriced at days but things which took me years to do have had their time frame shortened exponentially by pay to win tactics.
The company still claims they didn't go p2w, my rankings disagree.
However I absolutely don't see anything pay to win about the Founders Pack. Everything is cosmetic.
Other than to say that, I'd like to remind everybody to be civil in their posts. I really don't want to get involved in this discussion too much. I'm not going to argue that the package isn't pay to win despite the fact I 100% do not see anything pay to win about it. Trust me if I did I'd hand you all pitch forks to storm the castle with!
However I am going to keep a close eye on this. Hopefully you guys won't drag me into the fray too much.
drwarpeffectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 71Arc User
edited February 2013
I do want to comment about a possible misconception about my original post. I do not mean to say that the $200 pack automatically makes NW a P2W. Rather I am saying two basic points. Either one, the pack is overpriced in a way that suggests a pricing scheme that will ultimately hurt the game, or two, this could be the beginnings of a game that is straying too far from the best F2P model to one that smacks too much of P2W. part of my argument is that even the perception of such can hurt the game.
Can you give an example of where this has happened? I'd like to see your perspective of what constitutes p2w where a publisher stated the contrary.
I didn't claim anything was p2w or wasn't I just added the comment as food for thought. I have been in "what is p2w" debates before in this forum and have learned to avoid such discussions and more than likely I wasn't in the camp you seem to presume I am in.
Comments
My god...it's like reading the lyrics to a Good Charlotte album. :rolleyes: Opinions matter, but crying because you don't like the cost of something really is silly. I detest the price of PRADA purses, but having a girly fit over it isn't going to make the price come down.
Heh, that's great. Door is that way. Plenty of better threads with discussions I'm sure you'll really like out there.
Oh look a mod merged the threads. Thanks.
Please try to post in existing threads on the same topic folks!
Thanks,
The Neverwinter Moderator Team
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Best animated emote EVER!
There are people who do cry over stuff like that... What's the problem?
There are more than just convenience items and cosmetics offered in the packs but I don't see them as game breaking.
As for value when it comes to digital content that is solely in the eye of the beholder and holds true for many other things just more obvious with digital. I personally think the best value is the $20 package with the $200 package being the least value unless your enamored with drow.
If you have to ask....:rolleyes:
Those are for zen coins... are the astral diamonds equivelent in value? I know you can buy zen coins with real cash, so what will the exchange rate be for diamond to zen be?
EXACTLY! Those of us spending the $200 for the HOTN pack are doing so and one of the side benefits is those who don't want to pay the $200, or really anything for that matter, don't have to! WE help fund things like writers, graphic artists, programmers, server maitenance, etc. so everyone else can play the game and not spend anything if they don't want to.
And in return I get a few goodies for my account and my toons and feel good that I helped support the game I anticipate I'm going to thoroughly enjoy since I have been a D&D fan, a Forgotten Realms fan, for a looooong time.
No but it still kills my wallet as I had to buy the wife one just to shut her up.
[/SIGPIC]
The Older Gamers (25+) - Never too old to play games
those who get this , will have the 5 days ahead , into Open Beta
with which most of them will likely exploit bugs and glitches to their own benefit, lol
Beta were all about testing , and in the beginning gaming companies had their own PAID people to do this.....
but when they get players to toss em dollars to get early access along with CB and so on , these people are not encouraged to play and test ..
most of em go in early to find bug and stuff, that when it goes live, they can use them to their benefit, not to test.
thats why so many games into CB , get prolonged beta's and delayed releases, with bugs out the yin yang.
they don't have a GENUINE interest in finding and REPORTING the bug ( well most of em )
their real interest is to find and EXPLOIT them, so as to turn an ingame profit on their founder pack fee and so on.
******************************
the title to this thread hits the nail on the head.
"Oh gosh my butthurts! I wish I could get the founders pack for free."
The constant complaining and whining is putting me in a negative mood, and my posts are starting to reflect that.
I posted this earlier but it's worth showing again, this is Craig Zinkievich (CCO Cryptic Studios) specifically explaining it is NOT a "Pay to Win" model... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vNMq...tu.be&t=25m21s
Just want to add this as food for thought. What games that have p2w shops actually come out and admit they have p2w items in it ?
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Then again why lie about something like that knowing the backlash that it would cause and all the customers they would loose right from the start. They for sure wont make enough money off of founders packs to get back losses if everyone left the game since they lied about the cash shop.
And no matter what people say from looking around and playing some of Champions online and knowing people that play star trek online the cash shop will be there and it will be pushed, but it will be for Convenience items. (xp boosters comes to mind being a prime example of that). Its like all the people that said the GW2 shop was going to be pay2win and would ruin the game. They all looked really dumb on beta 1 and the release just like the people on here are going to look dumb in a week.
That's the thing, what is p2w can vary with opinion, a company can claim our shop is not p2w and feel they are telling the truth but have many many of its customer disagree with them who equally feel they are telling the truth.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
But it is better than what happened to the previous version of Neverwinter, which had NO SUPPORT AT ALL. Had they kept on developping Neverwinter Nights, we could have had a better Forgotten Realms MMO, earlier. In fact, 10 years earlier. Thats what gets me the most. $$$$$$ commercial publishers, $$$$$$ marketing teams, $$$$$$$$$$$$$ games by the hundreds.
// about whiners: haters suck, period.
Can you give an example of where this has happened? I'd like to see your perspective of what constitutes p2w where a publisher stated the contrary.
Amulet of protection
master work item with enchantment
chest giving unique enchanted weapon
I've seen it before. I have seen games sell hefty experience buffs and claim it wasn't pay to win because it was an insignificant buff...Double experience for a week for five dollars is minor. Certainly not pay to win...according to one gaming company that has a game which is 90% grinds for levels.
In that game specific game, infested with months of skill grinding, any experience bonus would be pay to win. I used to be ranked in the top 1K subscribing players out of over two million. Due to them selling experience, either directly or through bonuses, years of work is months now...days if you have the money for it. Stupidly overpriced at days but things which took me years to do have had their time frame shortened exponentially by pay to win tactics.
The company still claims they didn't go p2w, my rankings disagree.
However I absolutely don't see anything pay to win about the Founders Pack. Everything is cosmetic.
Other than to say that, I'd like to remind everybody to be civil in their posts. I really don't want to get involved in this discussion too much. I'm not going to argue that the package isn't pay to win despite the fact I 100% do not see anything pay to win about it. Trust me if I did I'd hand you all pitch forks to storm the castle with!
However I am going to keep a close eye on this. Hopefully you guys won't drag me into the fray too much.
I didn't claim anything was p2w or wasn't I just added the comment as food for thought. I have been in "what is p2w" debates before in this forum and have learned to avoid such discussions and more than likely I wasn't in the camp you seem to presume I am in.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild