ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
I don't see any issue with the items sold.
I can definitely see players saying it's overpriced, I won't argue that, but the payments are *completely* optional. There's really no unfair advantage sold in my eyes.
Just because the game is free to play doesn't mean they will not tempt players with items they would like to have and despite the numerous threads crying foul there are still more blue and gold names than I can count running around the forums.
I don't label a Free to Play Model as a fail for offering expensive items (other than a certain monocle)
The most important point is that it isn't p2w and thereby giving an insanely unfair advantage in the game. I don't see that here.
They have always said they would sell bags/inventory slots as convenience items. They are extremely helpful but the benefit you get from that are beyond mild. If you don't like that...well good luck finding a subscription game, let alone free to play game, which doesn't sell those types of items now.
Other than those everything is very much cosmetic other than the "Head Start." But let's take a look at this, you access the live game five days early. Ok. In the scope of years of playing what is the importance of five days? Even a month after launch I bet you players won't be talking about how much of an advantage that five days head start gave them.
I don't see the fail. Don't want to pay the price, I don't blame you. But by no means are you required to. If you want Beta access that badly and think the price is outrageous toss them twenty bucks. If you think the items are overpriced, they're all cosmetic or standard practice in modern games.
How about a compromise? Say, combine the starter and Guardian Packs and charge, say, $70. That way, you get all the Starter pack goodies, as well as BETA access and haven't broken the bank. I mean who really is going to be buying the starter pack when you don't even get beta access? You haven't really started anything yet....
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bluesteel8Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How about a compromise? Say, combine the starter and Guardian Packs and charge, say, $70. That way, you get all the Starter pack goodies, as well as BETA access and haven't broken the bank. I mean who really is going to be buying the starter pack when you don't even get beta access? You haven't really started anything yet....
This may be a F2P game but people need to remember this game is not a charity it is a business.
They need to make money to recoup costs and to expand the game in the future.
As I believe its been said they will not do a pay to win system or force players to pay for expansions? and as this is F2P and not a sub based game this revenue has to come from somewhere.
Only so much can come from useful and or micro transaction items in a cash stores such as Xp boosts, Rename tokens , Respec tokens, Character slots, Pets, Clothing items, Foundry slots, Emotes and such.
(All are examples and I am just speculating on what may or may not be in a cash store.)
Real money needs to be generated and to get this money they need to offer expensive items some players and fans will perceive as being worth the high prices.
It does not surprise me one bit that the most expensive package includes items so players can deck themselves out as arguably one of the most iconic heroes of the forgotten realms.
This is the whole sale tactic behind F2P you need to offer the players stuff they really want not what they really need then those that can buy will buy.
I do hope that there will be a similar system as they have in STO where people who cannot afford the money but have time to invest in playing can in the end through hard graft pay through currency earned in game but that is a topic for another time.
The prices may seem high especially considering we have not played the game yet and have only the video's (as nice as it looks) and our all consuming love for all things D&D to base a decision to buy or not to buy on.
But being a long time STO player I have become accustomed to c-store ships which can cost up to 5000 Zen for a three pack ship or the lock box and lobi ships which can cost much more depending on your luck.
The price of the top package is on par with the lifetime subscription in STO but this is a tenuous link as there is no subscription for Neverwinter But the essence is the same.
I believe the items offered will only be desirable items and there will be a steady stream of them through out the games lifetime.
Most players may be tempted and want some of them but no one ever needs to buy them to play what I think will be an awesome game.
Consider this the dev's testing the water so to speak while the hype for playing BETA is so high.
Be Prepared and as a famous galactic guide book once said DON'T PANIC!
IMO pretty much all of the packages suck because of the way items are staggered. If I could have the horse and wolf in the Hero pack PWE would have my $200.00. Unless that changes I'm not dropping a dime on the game.
j0reelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited January 2013
The Astral Diamond probably won't go very far if they use the same conversion rate that theyused in Blacklight: Retribution. The in-game items in the store were so over priced that it was basically a joke. Hopefully they will sell stuff at a resonable price in the game.
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bluesteel8Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The Astral Diamond probably won't go very far if they use the same conversion rate that theyused in Blacklight: Retribution. The in-game items in the store were so over priced that it was basically a joke. Hopefully they will sell stuff at a resonable price in the game.
Yes Ive never understood why a company would charge large amounts in cash shops. I would have thought, for example a few would pay $25 for a mount but thousands would pay $10 or $5, which is going to make more money in the long run?
Yes Ive never understood why a company would charge large amounts in cash shops. I would have thought, for example a few would pay $25 for a mount but thousands would pay $10 or $5, which is going to make more money in the long run?
completely true, You give 1 model creature and the right software and in an hour I may have 5 variants, if each were sold at $5 a thousand people bought 1 of any in the first hour Id make the company $5000 dollars for an hour of work $25000 if 1000 of each variant is bought.
Because it is all digital it can easily be very low cost to buy
drwarpeffectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 71Arc User
edited January 2013
I am not against the company making a profit, I WANT them to and keep the game going for a long time. I am fine with the company selling items. My point is that if items are significantly overpriced as indicated by the $200 pack then the game is more likely to fail, fail in lasting, and failing in turning the best profit. Several people have tried to defend the packs in this thread as having little or no benefit for gameplay thus not pushing a pay to win possibility. OK, so explain the attraction of a value $549 package that has little real benefit to gameplay? I understand that there may be value in other ways like eye candy, but a value $549 boost to aesthetics?
It's a sign of the evolution of F2P from a post-launch retrofit to a purposeful decision. It's an experiment in recouping development and marketing costs at launch like a P2P game, but via a voluntary model.
It's not a sign F2P is failing; it's a sign it's here to stay.
Personally, I think its a sign that its still in its infancy. But I believe that the age of subscription games is largely over or on its death bed, and that's its gonna be F2P and B2P from here on.
I also agree with a lot of the points the OP made, though. I just don't think that F2P is failing, so much as flailing wildly as companies try to adapt to the new business model. And in the meanwhile we pay the price--some of us more than others--for the wide disparities in prices and value between what it used to cost in the sub-based era and the sometimes ridiculous prices some stuff costs now.
Hopefully it will normalize and we'll get more consistent pricing in the not to distant future. But right now I think that pricing of digial items in these games is a wild mess.
Exactly. I was making the same point to Raph Koster in 1998+ and never got anywhere. The sub model is actually the death spiral to be avoided... f2p with micros give a company every incentive to enlarge the franchise.
I agree with this completely. However, it is important that the developers are responsible with their microtransaction products. Things like this which give special exclusive items that do not affect gameplay so much as serve as a statement of support for the game are good. Especially the only other time you see someone riding a spider mount, it's an NPC.
With every new season of content they release, they can showcase all the new microtransaction items as props or costumes. Product placement has been a successful form of marketing used in movies and TV shows. It's no accident if you see a character drinking a coke and the Coca-cola label is facing directly at the camera.
If I see an NPC in NW wearing a cool new suit of armor, I might want to adopt the new style for myself. So then I go to the cash shop and buy it. And if it is an appearance item only that overrides the default appearance for my gear, I can benefit from the stats of armor I have earned in gameplay and from whatever appearance I want.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
completely true, You give 1 model creature and the right software and in an hour I may have 5 variants, if each were sold at $5 a thousand people bought 1 of any in the first hour Id make the company $5000 dollars for an hour of work $25000 if 1000 of each variant is bought.
Because it is all digital it can easily be very low cost to buy
it would also be very cheap just take a look at RaiderZ and i know i keep bringing it up but atm its the finest example <.<
Black arrod= a black horse with black flame and black armor also a purple crystal thing on its head
White Arrod= a white horse with white armor blue flames and a unicorn horn which is also covered in blue flames
Red Arrod=white&black arrod but red with lets say gothich type winged ears & its covered in red armor with red flames
all that that would take would be a few pallete swaps of colors and re designing the head and that basically all that they changed apart from super minor details in the armors the horses have
Beta Testing Pending
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited January 2013
Kinda upset that I wont be getting the bag in all honesty. I brought guardian for me and a friend, its not to major in all honesty however as long as we can get other bag through out game play, would have been nice if I had one to start with but oh well! Still extremely excited to get playing.
On a side note, why does it not display my "guardian" status above my avatar?
Kinda upset that I wont be getting the bag in all honesty. I brought guardian for me and a friend, its not to major in all honesty however as long as we can get other bag through out game play, would have been nice if I had one to start with but oh well! Still extremely excited to get playing.
On a side note, why does it not display my "guardian" status above my avatar?
Yeah, the top advertised items are all just kind of flare. I'd trade in the mask and horse for a bag expansion and amulet any day.
I like the horse personally, but I'd gladly trade the mask and the stupid robe that drops junk for the expansion bag and the amulet. Seriously, who's idea was it to leave the two actual useful items out, and put in the other two stupid, useless ones? If we're going to pay 60 dollars, at least include the items from the tier package directly below, instead of throwing in two different random items. Revise the guardian pack and include the other stuff, or swap the useless robe and hat out please.
OK, so explain the attraction of a value $549 package that has little real benefit to gameplay? I understand that there may be value in other ways like eye candy, but a value $549 boost to aesthetics?
Because $549 is not a hard figure it is a subjective one. There are items that you get that are only appearance items that they have attached an unknown dollar amount to, they could be valuing the Founder's Armor Aura at $50 for all we know. Plus whatever "value" they attached to the beta weekends and the 5 day open beta head start and the character slots and everything else. The point is that the $549 dollar value is just a marketing schtick to pump up the desire of the package.
Plenty of MMOs out there are supporting them game financially on nothing but appearance items. If people were not willing to pay money in high volume for "no real benefit to gameplay" items how are these other games surviving? Just because something is not valuable to you doesn't mean that there aren't millions of other people that it is valuable to. Heck look at the "collectable action figures" market or lunchboxes or multimillion dollar modern art for that matter.
Some would claim this is just a matter of opinion, but I argue otherwise below.
Before I list the argument please know that I have been a D&D fan for a very long time. I have also been a computer gaming fan since the beginning and have spent very large amounts of money on computer gaming including MMOs. Last, I can afford to pay the $200 many times over just out of my computer gaming budget.
The argument:
1. The old subscription model that was very successful for games like EQ and WoW has in more recent years failed for games like Secret World, SWTOR, and LOTRO.
2. The newer model has been F2P, although there has been considerable flux as to how to best balance income with having a sufficient number of players overall.
3. A major problem has been to avoid making paying to play essential for having a sufficiently positive play experience as those unwilling or unable to pay have left the game without a sufficiently large enough player base. I.E., the game should be F2P not free to be overly gimped. This aspect is magnified many times over if the game allows PvP.
4. Item 3. implies that the game experience that does not cost anything cannot very overly much from the paid experience. This is why most agree that what can be purchased must be limited, with disagreement in what those limitations should be. Purely aesthetic options are usually uncontroversial at one end of the spectrum with over-powered pay-only equipment, or pay-only content, considered as most problematic at the other.
5. This brings us to the $200 founder's pack. There are two possibilities as concerns value for this pack. Either one indicates trouble.
(A) The pack is worth $200, or even the $549 advertised as its true value. This means that those with the pack will be experiencing the game at a level over $500 better than those who are doing strictly play for free. Most players would not find such a gimped experience worthwhile for any sort of long-term play experience.
(B) The pack is not worth even $200 (let alone over $500). The play experience then between those with and without the pack would then be of sufficiently similar nature so as not to pose a problem as in 5A. The trouble is the company is selling something claimed to be worth over $500 that is not even worth $200. This kind of over-grasping for money has already led several other F2P games to failure.
6. To see a current example of this kind of problem as seen in item 5. (although the jury is still out on eventual success or failure) is mechwarrior online's implementation of Founders' Packs. A main benefit of those packs in the two more expensive options was to get mechs that earned credits 25% faster (ala World of Tanks). Yet, as soon as open beta started they began selling "hero" mechs that gave a 30% boost. Something original purchasers of the Founders' packs were not told would be available later.
For those that want to argue it is ok to sell something at whatever price the market will bear, that is only half true. Buyers are certainly free to pay whatever they want. Sellers have to be more careful. There is an implicit claim in making a sale that you are providing adequate value for what you are selling. For online game companies trying the F2P model, the danger is even more pronounced. Make the pay to play component of your game too superior to the free play then you run a very real risk of alienating too many players. This means that there is a very real limit on how much you can sell that improves gameplay in line with high pricing as the free and pay to play experiences can only be so different before it threatens the ability of the game to be a success.
I was really looking forward to this game and had not had any significant concerns until I saw the $200 Founder's pack offer. I am now concerned about whether the balance between F2P and pay to play will be viable for this game.
I disagree with you on the Subscription plans. A sub based MMO is a dinosaur and market analysis bears this out, not to mention the many failed sub based games that eventually go F2P and then instantly turn into viable games. Lets not also forget that the vast majority of gamers have never played an MMO and one look at any non MMO gaming forum will bear fruit to the fact that the main barrier for the common gamer to get into an MMO is a subscription.
As for the $200 founders check my thread here to see why it isn't a big deal.
"4. Item 3. implies that the game experience that does not cost anything cannot very overly much from the paid experience. This is why most agree that what can be purchased must be limited, with disagreement in what those limitations should be. Purely aesthetic options are usually uncontroversial at one end of the spectrum with over-powered pay-only equipment, or pay-only content, considered as most problematic at the other."
I'll be honest. I just lost interest in the game when Drow became an exclusive $200+ dollar race. I wanted to play as a Drow, but was NOT going to pay $200 for it. (I'd consider paying a few dollars or whatever, but I find that is ridiculous.)
I think the prices are ridiculous. I'm sure I am in the minority as pre-game message boards are generally very fanboy type message boards. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, but if devs think generally positive responses from this message board mean anything, they are deluding themselves.) I was already losing interest as all my friends lost interest already. Due to things like 5,000 damage per hit.
Still curious to see how the game does in terms of sales and interest, but personally speaking my interest in the game just fell off the map.
You don't know what you are talking about ! Drow races will still be available to everybody. The menzo rebell is purely a bio kind of bonus. I bought my IP because i need to be a vip at all times. It goes well with my tie.
Funny thing is, while i also think 200$ is too much and would purchase another such pack if it were 100-140$, Europeans get "screwed" over double.
People don't really care that certain taxes are higher in their country, the company could even take these Hero pack "costs" (the taxes? being paid) just to create an equal footing among their supporters. It won't matter for the consumer, they all paid the 200$. And since this is 90% profit anyways, neither should Perfect World/Cryptic. But the fact is; they ARE creating some bad will.
We're required to pay 260$ for the Hero pack, and that I think is just wrong.
It's a whole other story with physical goods or goods with a high cost to make them though.
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited February 2013
OK, there are a couple of things I want to address.
First is the cost/value of the $200 pack - everyone who buys it is completely aware that he is spending money on stuff that is majorly useless with only a couple of things to actually boost the overall game experience(apart from visuals) and character power. The same goes for the $60 pack buyers including myself. We do not care if these packs are overpriced or underpriced or just spot on. We do not care about the "value" of the pack that is written next to it. We just want to support the game and in return we get some recognition about it.
Second - perceived value is different depending on your own experience. For example the horse or spider mount might be just as fast as a mount that you can buy in-game for in-game currency but some people have more time to spend in-game and for them these cosmetic mounts are not worth it. For me, as I have little time to actually play the game, the mount is worth it(in combination with the other items of course). The same goes for companions, scrolls, potions, etc. Basically the game relies on time vs money mechanic - if you spend enough time in-game then you do not have to spend money for the items. The same model goes for many other games including but not limited to Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Guild Wars 2 and League of Legends.
Third - games costing more in EU than in USA because of taxes is nothing new. Read about the problem and understand it source. Then hate on the proper people.
Fourth - there is virtually nothing in the packs that cannot be obtained in-game with different skin(or even with the same skin). Even the Drow race is free-to-play, only the "Renzoberranzan Renegade" background is unlocked by the pack(some people speculated that it includes a slightly different visuals from the other drows and a single unique racial skill and I tend to believe them).
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drwarpeffectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 71Arc User
edited February 2013
Zylaxx- You said you disagreed with me about subscription plans and go on to state you think they are a model that can no longer be viable. In my original post I said sub plans were dead for the most part. Where is the disagreement?
elve- Your first and your second- I stated in this thread that for the BUYER price could be what the market will bear since buyers who pay must value the pack in line with the price. I said that the problem comes in where the SELLER overprices and where those who DO NOT buy the $200 pack feel that more money than they are willing to pay is necessary to not be gimped in the game. So I agree with your point that perception is what counts but believe for NON-PURCHASERS the perception could be a negative one even up to helping cause the game to fail or not be nearly as successful as it might not otherwise be.
Your fourth- Several people have argued that the packs are really not that much of a problem for people NOT purchasing since all the items can be gotten in game (actually not all the items can be gotten such as the 10,000 XP bonus), but even if they could, this just means the price is WAY overpriced.
Some would claim this is just a matter of opinion, but I argue otherwise below.
Before I list the argument please know that I have been a D&D fan for a very long time. I have also been a computer gaming fan since the beginning and have spent very large amounts of money on computer gaming including MMOs. Last, I can afford to pay the $200 many times over just out of my computer gaming budget.
The argument:
1. The old subscription model that was very successful for games like EQ and WoW has in more recent years failed for games like Secret World, SWTOR, and LOTRO.
2. The newer model has been F2P, although there has been considerable flux as to how to best balance income with having a sufficient number of players overall.
3. A major problem has been to avoid making paying to play essential for having a sufficiently positive play experience as those unwilling or unable to pay have left the game without a sufficiently large enough player base. I.E., the game should be F2P not free to be overly gimped. This aspect is magnified many times over if the game allows PvP.
4. Item 3. implies that the game experience that does not cost anything cannot very overly much from the paid experience. This is why most agree that what can be purchased must be limited, with disagreement in what those limitations should be. Purely aesthetic options are usually uncontroversial at one end of the spectrum with over-powered pay-only equipment, or pay-only content, considered as most problematic at the other.
5. This brings us to the $200 founder's pack. There are two possibilities as concerns value for this pack. Either one indicates trouble.
(A) The pack is worth $200, or even the $549 advertised as its true value. This means that those with the pack will be experiencing the game at a level over $500 better than those who are doing strictly play for free. Most players would not find such a gimped experience worthwhile for any sort of long-term play experience.
(B) The pack is not worth even $200 (let alone over $500). The play experience then between those with and without the pack would then be of sufficiently similar nature so as not to pose a problem as in 5A. The trouble is the company is selling something claimed to be worth over $500 that is not even worth $200. This kind of over-grasping for money has already led several other F2P games to failure.
6. To see a current example of this kind of problem as seen in item 5. (although the jury is still out on eventual success or failure) is mechwarrior online's implementation of Founders' Packs. A main benefit of those packs in the two more expensive options was to get mechs that earned credits 25% faster (ala World of Tanks). Yet, as soon as open beta started they began selling "hero" mechs that gave a 30% boost. Something original purchasers of the Founders' packs were not told would be available later.
For those that want to argue it is ok to sell something at whatever price the market will bear, that is only half true. Buyers are certainly free to pay whatever they want. Sellers have to be more careful. There is an implicit claim in making a sale that you are providing adequate value for what you are selling. For online game companies trying the F2P model, the danger is even more pronounced. Make the pay to play component of your game too superior to the free play then you run a very real risk of alienating too many players. This means that there is a very real limit on how much you can sell that improves gameplay in line with high pricing as the free and pay to play experiences can only be so different before it threatens the ability of the game to be a success.
I was really looking forward to this game and had not had any significant concerns until I saw the $200 Founder's pack offer. I am now concerned about whether the balance between F2P and pay to play will be viable for this game.
Just to validate.. yes, it's your opinion.
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I'll be honest. I just lost interest in the game when Drow became an exclusive $200+ dollar race. I wanted to play as a Drow, but was NOT going to pay $200 for it. (I'd consider paying a few dollars or whatever, but I find that is ridiculous.
It has been stated numerous times and even clarified on the Founder's details page.. The Menzoberranzan Renegade is NOT a separate drow race. It is a unique Racial Background Heritage for your drow character. This unique racial background is unlocked by buying the Hero of the North Founder's pack and when creating your drow character, you will then be able to choose this racial background which will enable all the cool things detailed in the Founder's package for the Menzoberranzan Renegade.
Comments
I can definitely see players saying it's overpriced, I won't argue that, but the payments are *completely* optional. There's really no unfair advantage sold in my eyes.
Just because the game is free to play doesn't mean they will not tempt players with items they would like to have and despite the numerous threads crying foul there are still more blue and gold names than I can count running around the forums.
I don't label a Free to Play Model as a fail for offering expensive items (other than a certain monocle)
The most important point is that it isn't p2w and thereby giving an insanely unfair advantage in the game. I don't see that here.
They have always said they would sell bags/inventory slots as convenience items. They are extremely helpful but the benefit you get from that are beyond mild. If you don't like that...well good luck finding a subscription game, let alone free to play game, which doesn't sell those types of items now.
Other than those everything is very much cosmetic other than the "Head Start." But let's take a look at this, you access the live game five days early. Ok. In the scope of years of playing what is the importance of five days? Even a month after launch I bet you players won't be talking about how much of an advantage that five days head start gave them.
I don't see the fail. Don't want to pay the price, I don't blame you. But by no means are you required to. If you want Beta access that badly and think the price is outrageous toss them twenty bucks. If you think the items are overpriced, they're all cosmetic or standard practice in modern games.
Best idea I've heard.
Edit: "Read"
[/SIGPIC]
The Older Gamers (25+) - Never too old to play games
They need to make money to recoup costs and to expand the game in the future.
As I believe its been said they will not do a pay to win system or force players to pay for expansions? and as this is F2P and not a sub based game this revenue has to come from somewhere.
Only so much can come from useful and or micro transaction items in a cash stores such as Xp boosts, Rename tokens , Respec tokens, Character slots, Pets, Clothing items, Foundry slots, Emotes and such.
(All are examples and I am just speculating on what may or may not be in a cash store.)
Real money needs to be generated and to get this money they need to offer expensive items some players and fans will perceive as being worth the high prices.
It does not surprise me one bit that the most expensive package includes items so players can deck themselves out as arguably one of the most iconic heroes of the forgotten realms.
This is the whole sale tactic behind F2P you need to offer the players stuff they really want not what they really need then those that can buy will buy.
I do hope that there will be a similar system as they have in STO where people who cannot afford the money but have time to invest in playing can in the end through hard graft pay through currency earned in game but that is a topic for another time.
The prices may seem high especially considering we have not played the game yet and have only the video's (as nice as it looks) and our all consuming love for all things D&D to base a decision to buy or not to buy on.
But being a long time STO player I have become accustomed to c-store ships which can cost up to 5000 Zen for a three pack ship or the lock box and lobi ships which can cost much more depending on your luck.
The price of the top package is on par with the lifetime subscription in STO but this is a tenuous link as there is no subscription for Neverwinter But the essence is the same.
I believe the items offered will only be desirable items and there will be a steady stream of them through out the games lifetime.
Most players may be tempted and want some of them but no one ever needs to buy them to play what I think will be an awesome game.
Consider this the dev's testing the water so to speak while the hype for playing BETA is so high.
Be Prepared and as a famous galactic guide book once said DON'T PANIC!
A multi-gaming Guild
Yes Ive never understood why a company would charge large amounts in cash shops. I would have thought, for example a few would pay $25 for a mount but thousands would pay $10 or $5, which is going to make more money in the long run?
[/SIGPIC]
The Older Gamers (25+) - Never too old to play games
completely true, You give 1 model creature and the right software and in an hour I may have 5 variants, if each were sold at $5 a thousand people bought 1 of any in the first hour Id make the company $5000 dollars for an hour of work $25000 if 1000 of each variant is bought.
Because it is all digital it can easily be very low cost to buy
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Personally, I think its a sign that its still in its infancy. But I believe that the age of subscription games is largely over or on its death bed, and that's its gonna be F2P and B2P from here on.
I also agree with a lot of the points the OP made, though. I just don't think that F2P is failing, so much as flailing wildly as companies try to adapt to the new business model. And in the meanwhile we pay the price--some of us more than others--for the wide disparities in prices and value between what it used to cost in the sub-based era and the sometimes ridiculous prices some stuff costs now.
Hopefully it will normalize and we'll get more consistent pricing in the not to distant future. But right now I think that pricing of digial items in these games is a wild mess.
I agree with this completely. However, it is important that the developers are responsible with their microtransaction products. Things like this which give special exclusive items that do not affect gameplay so much as serve as a statement of support for the game are good. Especially the only other time you see someone riding a spider mount, it's an NPC.
With every new season of content they release, they can showcase all the new microtransaction items as props or costumes. Product placement has been a successful form of marketing used in movies and TV shows. It's no accident if you see a character drinking a coke and the Coca-cola label is facing directly at the camera.
If I see an NPC in NW wearing a cool new suit of armor, I might want to adopt the new style for myself. So then I go to the cash shop and buy it. And if it is an appearance item only that overrides the default appearance for my gear, I can benefit from the stats of armor I have earned in gameplay and from whatever appearance I want.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
it would also be very cheap just take a look at RaiderZ and i know i keep bringing it up but atm its the finest example <.<
Black arrod= a black horse with black flame and black armor also a purple crystal thing on its head
White Arrod= a white horse with white armor blue flames and a unicorn horn which is also covered in blue flames
Red Arrod=white&black arrod but red with lets say gothich type winged ears & its covered in red armor with red flames
all that that would take would be a few pallete swaps of colors and re designing the head and that basically all that they changed apart from super minor details in the armors the horses have
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
On a side note, why does it not display my "guardian" status above my avatar?
[h=3]How To - Neverwinter Founder's Pack Titles[/h]
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I like the horse personally, but I'd gladly trade the mask and the stupid robe that drops junk for the expansion bag and the amulet. Seriously, who's idea was it to leave the two actual useful items out, and put in the other two stupid, useless ones? If we're going to pay 60 dollars, at least include the items from the tier package directly below, instead of throwing in two different random items. Revise the guardian pack and include the other stuff, or swap the useless robe and hat out please.
Because $549 is not a hard figure it is a subjective one. There are items that you get that are only appearance items that they have attached an unknown dollar amount to, they could be valuing the Founder's Armor Aura at $50 for all we know. Plus whatever "value" they attached to the beta weekends and the 5 day open beta head start and the character slots and everything else. The point is that the $549 dollar value is just a marketing schtick to pump up the desire of the package.
Plenty of MMOs out there are supporting them game financially on nothing but appearance items. If people were not willing to pay money in high volume for "no real benefit to gameplay" items how are these other games surviving? Just because something is not valuable to you doesn't mean that there aren't millions of other people that it is valuable to. Heck look at the "collectable action figures" market or lunchboxes or multimillion dollar modern art for that matter.
I disagree with you on the Subscription plans. A sub based MMO is a dinosaur and market analysis bears this out, not to mention the many failed sub based games that eventually go F2P and then instantly turn into viable games. Lets not also forget that the vast majority of gamers have never played an MMO and one look at any non MMO gaming forum will bear fruit to the fact that the main barrier for the common gamer to get into an MMO is a subscription.
As for the $200 founders check my thread here to see why it isn't a big deal.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?31271-Hero-of-the-North-Founder-s-Pack-and-why-it-isn-t-as-big-a-deal-as-you-may-think!
Character is what a man is in the dark
I'll be honest. I just lost interest in the game when Drow became an exclusive $200+ dollar race. I wanted to play as a Drow, but was NOT going to pay $200 for it. (I'd consider paying a few dollars or whatever, but I find that is ridiculous.)
I think the prices are ridiculous. I'm sure I am in the minority as pre-game message boards are generally very fanboy type message boards. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, but if devs think generally positive responses from this message board mean anything, they are deluding themselves.) I was already losing interest as all my friends lost interest already. Due to things like 5,000 damage per hit.
Still curious to see how the game does in terms of sales and interest, but personally speaking my interest in the game just fell off the map.
People don't really care that certain taxes are higher in their country, the company could even take these Hero pack "costs" (the taxes? being paid) just to create an equal footing among their supporters. It won't matter for the consumer, they all paid the 200$. And since this is 90% profit anyways, neither should Perfect World/Cryptic. But the fact is; they ARE creating some bad will.
We're required to pay 260$ for the Hero pack, and that I think is just wrong.
It's a whole other story with physical goods or goods with a high cost to make them though.
First is the cost/value of the $200 pack - everyone who buys it is completely aware that he is spending money on stuff that is majorly useless with only a couple of things to actually boost the overall game experience(apart from visuals) and character power. The same goes for the $60 pack buyers including myself. We do not care if these packs are overpriced or underpriced or just spot on. We do not care about the "value" of the pack that is written next to it. We just want to support the game and in return we get some recognition about it.
Second - perceived value is different depending on your own experience. For example the horse or spider mount might be just as fast as a mount that you can buy in-game for in-game currency but some people have more time to spend in-game and for them these cosmetic mounts are not worth it. For me, as I have little time to actually play the game, the mount is worth it(in combination with the other items of course). The same goes for companions, scrolls, potions, etc. Basically the game relies on time vs money mechanic - if you spend enough time in-game then you do not have to spend money for the items. The same model goes for many other games including but not limited to Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Guild Wars 2 and League of Legends.
Third - games costing more in EU than in USA because of taxes is nothing new. Read about the problem and understand it source. Then hate on the proper people.
Fourth - there is virtually nothing in the packs that cannot be obtained in-game with different skin(or even with the same skin). Even the Drow race is free-to-play, only the "Renzoberranzan Renegade" background is unlocked by the pack(some people speculated that it includes a slightly different visuals from the other drows and a single unique racial skill and I tend to believe them).
elve- Your first and your second- I stated in this thread that for the BUYER price could be what the market will bear since buyers who pay must value the pack in line with the price. I said that the problem comes in where the SELLER overprices and where those who DO NOT buy the $200 pack feel that more money than they are willing to pay is necessary to not be gimped in the game. So I agree with your point that perception is what counts but believe for NON-PURCHASERS the perception could be a negative one even up to helping cause the game to fail or not be nearly as successful as it might not otherwise be.
Your fourth- Several people have argued that the packs are really not that much of a problem for people NOT purchasing since all the items can be gotten in game (actually not all the items can be gotten such as the 10,000 XP bonus), but even if they could, this just means the price is WAY overpriced.
Just to validate.. yes, it's your opinion.
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And like i said, charging Europeans more for digital items (because of tax or whatever) which are already 90% profit is still a choice.