Though I pray that when they have a dragon fight they have it make sense.
Dragons are one of the most intelligent things in the game. Why in the name of St. Cuthbert would they fight in a room thats filled with their treasure that they can't fly in?
Spoony said it best.
They would be able to pick their fight (or at least it should be pretty hard to trap something thats that smart).
Their fight is flying in the sky in circles and breath weaponing the party. WHY WOULD A DRAGON EVER LAND? They are ridiculously old and wise, they know that guy in full plate with a two-hander is bad news. They are intelligent to focus the guy with the pointy staff and the hat. For god sakes they are genre savvy!
Bottom line players should be extremely scared an filled with doubt while messing with a Dragon.
Dragons are one of the most intelligent things in the game. Why in the name of St. Cuthbert would they fight in a room thats filled with their treasure that they can't fly in?
...
Their fight is flying in the sky in circles and breath weaponing the party. WHY WOULD A DRAGON EVER LAND? They are ridiculously old and wise, they know that guy in full plate with a two-hander is bad news. ....
The answer to all your question is the fact that a dragon never actually fights - it just tries to get its lunch. So it doesn't matter if it lands or is in dungeon - because it is never really fighting. It just eats and uses the sword as a toothpick.
Also they are not wise anymore ever since the appearance of king killer star.
Also I feel like a Dragon (with the exception of the Reds maybe) would be willing to run from a losing battle. Hell I feel like most dragons wouldn't even risk being in front of anything they were not absolutely sure they could handle.
My main point its is that they should be played smart enough to know what they can handle and what they're strengths and weakness's are. I feel like if the PC's are actually any threat to a dragon the dragon would probably be able to tell.
Granted if they do something super duper clever to overcome the dragon let them have the win.
But most dragon fights in video games involve the dragon getting stomped in his lair.
Also I feel like a Dragon (with the exception of the Reds maybe) would be willing to run from a losing battle. Hell I feel like most dragons wouldn't even risk being in front of anything they were not absolutely sure they could handle.
My main point its is that they should be played smart enough to
....
No, the king killer star happened much much before 3e. Even in 3e the dragons were all evil except for eberron maybe.
They are not wise like chinese serpentine dragons but evil and cunning and very hard to kill. They always have upper hand in any battle and that is why they will never run.
Having a dragon respect you enough that a dragon tries to run from you would make you more respectable than a god in D&D game...
There was a time when dragons ruled the world. If you want to know about why they became like that, there is a book called:-
*goes back in his dusty library*
Realm of the elves - Traitors
In that due to heroic sacrifice of Rhesphen Ash we were able to make dragons into monsters that they are today.
No, the king killer star happened much much before 3e. Even in 3e the dragons were all evil except for eberron maybe.
They are not wise like chinese serpentine dragons but evil and cunning and very hard to kill. They always have upper hand in any battle and that is why they will never run.
Having a dragon respect you enough that a dragon tries to run from you would make you more respectable than a god in D&D game...
There was a time when dragons ruled the world. If you want to know about why they became like that, there is a book called:-
*goes back in his dusty library*
Realm of the elves - Traitors
In that due to heroic sacrifice of Rhesphen Ash we were able to make dragons into monsters that they are today.
Ah pretty sure dragons being good or evil depends on what color they are.
TSR 2102 - MC1 - Monstrous Compendium Volume One (1989) ? ISBN 0-88038-738-6
This was the initial volume in the Monstrous Compendium series, for the second edition of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game, published in 1989. Most of the monsters for Volume One were taken from previous first edition AD&D books; the monster entries were greatly expanded and in most cases each monster now filled an entire page and had an all-new illustration. The Monstrous Compendium series consisted of a pack of 5-hole punched loose-leaf pages rather than an actual book, designed to be arranged to the player's preference. Volume One of the Monstrous Compendium was packaged in a box, which contained the pack of monster sheets as well as a binder intended to store the sheets for Volumes One, Two, and Three. The pack consisted of 144 pages, unnumbered, and included a "How To Use This Book" page, with an alphabetical index to Volume One on the back, four pages of monster summoning and random encounter charts, and a blank monster sheet to be photocopied, with the remainder consisting of the monster descriptions. Also included were eight full-page illustrations on heavier card stock.
Note: All monsters from MC1 appeared in the Monstrous Manual (1993), though some had slightly altered headings.
If you scroll down you will see in the "dragons" section some "good" dragons. For example:
Dragon, Gold Lawful good dragons that breathe fire or chlorine gas
Dungeons & Dragons set (1974), Monster Manual (1977), D&D Basic Set (1981, 1983), D&D Companion Rules (1984), Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia (1991), Monster Manual (2000), Monster Manual v.3.5 (2003), D&D Miniatures: Giants of Legend set #61 (2004), D&D Miniatures: Deathknell set #7 (2005)
I've been trying to talk one of our designers into making a "trap" in which the characters get sealed into a room, and a strange black, icky substance starts pouring in from a drain/grate in the ceiling.
Then the black pudding attacks...
He keeps saying that's too mean, so I think I might have to do it myself in a Foundry mission at some point.
Cheers,
Stormshade
Tell this designer we'd like to have a talk with him! That would be so awesome to see.
Either way, the silver lining in your comment for me is the "so I think I might have to do it myself in a Foundry mission at some point." I can not WAIT to try the Foundry now if you are stating we can design "elaborate" traps (aka not just choosing between a dozen or so) and scale the damage. That would make the rounds fast if it is true
I am looking at the third edition Monster Manual and the Red Dragon has a wisdom of 27 and a intelligence of 26.
Not to mention in order to get to Great Wyrm status they have to live for 1200+ years.
I honestly can't even comprehend something with that much intelligence and wisdom letting a group of adventurers enter his lair and beat on him until his death.
Not to mention they are 19th level sorcerers that probably have a **** ton of magic items in their hordes. If he was about to lose a fight I would just teleport away.
I guess this is off topic but as far as DMing goes "Intelligent Villains and NPC's should be as abusive with magic and abilitys as Players are." At least up to a reasonable amount. I am still a firm believer of home brewing every monster you put on the table/magic items/traps ect.
It actually takes less time than specifically preparing encounters from the monster manual.
In fact when I GM Pathfinder I think about cool stuff all week and if I think I might forget something I write it down. Then I hit the table.
I don't use stat blocks.
I don't pre build encounters.
I design characters in the world and think about what type of contacts and capability's they might have.
If I feel pace slowing down I toss in a hook even if I have no idea where its leading.
I don't waste any ideas, if I think of something cool I just throw it in even if its out of place.
In my experiance a players expectations of monster strength are pretty much exactly in line with GM/DM expectations.
If a +5 feels right for a will save to you it probably will for the players.
Also I adopted this from Chris Perkins, I sped up the gameplay and made the table so much more fun by doing one simple change to my GM design.
The only dice I really use behind the screen are a d6 and a d20.
Idk I honestly think games and ideas that should be fun get destroyed by the semantics of preparation.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I am looking at the third edition Monster Manual and the Red Dragon has a wisdom of 27 and a intelligence of 26.
Not to mention in order to get to Great Wyrm status they have to live for 1200+ years.
I honestly can't even comprehend something with that much intelligence and wisdom letting a group of adventurers enter his lair and beat on him until his death.
Not to mention they are 19th level sorcerers that probably have a **** ton of magic items in their hordes. If he was about to lose a fight I would just teleport away.
Now wrap your head around the fact that everything statistically about Dragons listed in the Monstrous Manual is scaled down compared to Forgotten Realms dragons. Here they're bigger yet they have feline agility, they're smarter and they live much, much longer. They also do more damage, their dragon breath is something to behold.. from afar. Dragons in the Realms are much more powerful than the currently listed Dragons in non-FR stamped material. This will probably be changing however with D&D Next as they stream-line all Monsters and other lore and details to be uniform across the new Rule-set.
OMG! I have been reading through the packets for a while, (a month or two at least) and while I want to finish my Pathfinder campaign I really am stocked for NEXT.
It pretty much seems designed from the ground up for.... well... EVERYONE!
Like to have a system that you can change what you don't like and add stuff you do easily through the different rules additions you can do everything you want without worrying about breaking the game.
0
aavariusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2012
Mind flayers have been requested earlier, and I whole heartedly support our illithid masters. Here's why they're awesome.
Cool to mention the beholder, but please not much beholders as DDO! 90% of DDO quests have Beholders as enemies.....
Yeah have to agree with this; some of the lesser monsters it's more than okay to use but I'm really hoping we don't have a lich under every rock or a Beholder serving drinks at the inn...
I'm also hoping that they use the more rare encounters as something other than just another boss to kill..an illithid could be used as a protagonist that you are forced to make a deal with to achieve an objective, or you could be conned into serving a Vampire queen to some unspeakable end, something anything other than Grock sees monster Grock kills monster.
Tell this designer we'd like to have a talk with him! That would be so awesome to see.
Either way, the silver lining in your comment for me is the "so I think I might have to do it myself in a Foundry mission at some point." I can not WAIT to try the Foundry now if you are stating we can design "elaborate" traps (aka not just choosing between a dozen or so) and scale the damage. That would make the rounds fast if it is true
There's ways to do almost anything in The Foundry, it's really an incredibly powerful toolset.
However, there are also limitations...
If I were to build this in The Foundry, I'd set a trigger to close the door behind you when walked into the room, and then further into the room, I would trigger the monster spawn.
I'm not sure if it would be possible to make it appear as the thick black substance pouring from the drain in the wall, but we may have other tools to help with that.
Cheers,
Stormshade
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
There's ways to do almost anything in The Foundry, it's really an incredibly powerful toolset.
However, there are also limitations...
If I were to build this in The Foundry, I'd set a trigger to close the door behind you when walked into the room, and then further into the room, I would trigger the monster spawn.
I'm not sure if it would be possible to make it appear as the thick black substance pouring from the drain in the wall, but we may have other tools to help with that.
Cheers,
Stormshade
That is awesome Storm! At this point, I don't know which I am more excited for, playing the actual game or playing in the foundry.
I cannot wait to see what monsters we will have to work with also.
I'd like to see all kind of demons and devils. From Quasit to Obyrith and anything in between. Vrock, Glabrezu, Hezrou, Marylith, Bebilith, Balor, Kyton, Erinyes, Yugoloth, Pit Fiend...
Each with their unique model.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
- W.E.H.
There's ways to do almost anything in The Foundry, it's really an incredibly powerful toolset.
However, there are also limitations...
If I were to build this in The Foundry, I'd set a trigger to close the door behind you when walked into the room, and then further into the room, I would trigger the monster spawn.
I'm not sure if it would be possible to make it appear as the thick black substance pouring from the drain in the wall, but we may have other tools to help with that.
Gorgon, Chimera, manscorpion, Helion, Salamanders, Revenant (possible class later on), Hellhounds (pet awesome) all the good stuff, my fav fluffy beholders to hang from my rearvision mirror.
BTW some of you have friend requests, sorry to the blokes that requested me i took my time and by accident noticed, they dont advertise well when you log in.
0
mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited October 2012
Chickens, flocks of angry ill mannered chickens. Brain washed by dark wizards to do their evil bidding like, eating the other near by farms grain!
What will our might adventures do to put a stop to this horrible and unimaginable crime? Why of course they are going to hack through tens upon thousands of chickens, evil chickens! until they can get to the top of the barn where the dark and powerful chicken wizards are, but can they get to grip with them when faced by the mutated chicken with an unusual amount of feathers!?
Find out next week on Neverwinter Mmo!*
*Terms and conditions apply, never winter may or may not be out next week, no chickens where harmed in this script, if you feel any kind of burning sensations please visit a doctor!
Gorgon, Chimera, manscorpion, Helion, Salamanders, Revenant (possible class later on), Hellhounds (pet awesome) all the good stuff, my fav fluffy beholders to hang from my rearvision mirror.
BTW some of you have friend requests, sorry to the blokes that requested me i took my time and by accident noticed, they dont advertise well when you log in.
EEP!
(Sorry to all seven of you had NO idea as it doesn't notify us and I go straight to this forum all accepted.)
Comments
What Stormdragon said.MAKE them do it i want sutch cool traps.
Though I pray that when they have a dragon fight they have it make sense.
Dragons are one of the most intelligent things in the game. Why in the name of St. Cuthbert would they fight in a room thats filled with their treasure that they can't fly in?
Spoony said it best.
They would be able to pick their fight (or at least it should be pretty hard to trap something thats that smart).
Their fight is flying in the sky in circles and breath weaponing the party. WHY WOULD A DRAGON EVER LAND? They are ridiculously old and wise, they know that guy in full plate with a two-hander is bad news. They are intelligent to focus the guy with the pointy staff and the hat. For god sakes they are genre savvy!
Bottom line players should be extremely scared an filled with doubt while messing with a Dragon.
The answer to all your question is the fact that a dragon never actually fights - it just tries to get its lunch. So it doesn't matter if it lands or is in dungeon - because it is never really fighting. It just eats and uses the sword as a toothpick.
Also they are not wise anymore ever since the appearance of king killer star.
Also I feel like a Dragon (with the exception of the Reds maybe) would be willing to run from a losing battle. Hell I feel like most dragons wouldn't even risk being in front of anything they were not absolutely sure they could handle.
My main point its is that they should be played smart enough to know what they can handle and what they're strengths and weakness's are. I feel like if the PC's are actually any threat to a dragon the dragon would probably be able to tell.
Granted if they do something super duper clever to overcome the dragon let them have the win.
But most dragon fights in video games involve the dragon getting stomped in his lair.
No, the king killer star happened much much before 3e. Even in 3e the dragons were all evil except for eberron maybe.
They are not wise like chinese serpentine dragons but evil and cunning and very hard to kill. They always have upper hand in any battle and that is why they will never run.
Having a dragon respect you enough that a dragon tries to run from you would make you more respectable than a god in D&D game...
There was a time when dragons ruled the world. If you want to know about why they became like that, there is a book called:-
*goes back in his dusty library*
Realm of the elves - Traitors
In that due to heroic sacrifice of Rhesphen Ash we were able to make dragons into monsters that they are today.
Ah pretty sure dragons being good or evil depends on what color they are.
If you scroll down you will see in the "dragons" section some "good" dragons. For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_2nd_edition_monsters#TSR_2103_-_MC2_-_Monstrous_Compendium_Volume_Two_.281989.29
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Tell this designer we'd like to have a talk with him!
Either way, the silver lining in your comment for me is the "so I think I might have to do it myself in a Foundry mission at some point." I can not WAIT to try the Foundry now if you are stating we can design "elaborate" traps (aka not just choosing between a dozen or so) and scale the damage. That would make the rounds fast if it is true
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Not to mention in order to get to Great Wyrm status they have to live for 1200+ years.
I honestly can't even comprehend something with that much intelligence and wisdom letting a group of adventurers enter his lair and beat on him until his death.
Not to mention they are 19th level sorcerers that probably have a **** ton of magic items in their hordes. If he was about to lose a fight I would just teleport away.
I guess this is off topic but as far as DMing goes "Intelligent Villains and NPC's should be as abusive with magic and abilitys as Players are." At least up to a reasonable amount. I am still a firm believer of home brewing every monster you put on the table/magic items/traps ect.
It actually takes less time than specifically preparing encounters from the monster manual.
In fact when I GM Pathfinder I think about cool stuff all week and if I think I might forget something I write it down. Then I hit the table.
I don't use stat blocks.
I don't pre build encounters.
I design characters in the world and think about what type of contacts and capability's they might have.
If I feel pace slowing down I toss in a hook even if I have no idea where its leading.
I don't waste any ideas, if I think of something cool I just throw it in even if its out of place.
In my experiance a players expectations of monster strength are pretty much exactly in line with GM/DM expectations.
If a +5 feels right for a will save to you it probably will for the players.
Also I adopted this from Chris Perkins, I sped up the gameplay and made the table so much more fun by doing one simple change to my GM design.
The only dice I really use behind the screen are a d6 and a d20.
Idk I honestly think games and ideas that should be fun get destroyed by the semantics of preparation.
Now wrap your head around the fact that everything statistically about Dragons listed in the Monstrous Manual is scaled down compared to Forgotten Realms dragons. Here they're bigger yet they have feline agility, they're smarter and they live much, much longer. They also do more damage, their dragon breath is something to behold.. from afar. Dragons in the Realms are much more powerful than the currently listed Dragons in non-FR stamped material. This will probably be changing however with D&D Next as they stream-line all Monsters and other lore and details to be uniform across the new Rule-set.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
It pretty much seems designed from the ground up for.... well... EVERYONE!
Like to have a system that you can change what you don't like and add stuff you do easily through the different rules additions you can do everything you want without worrying about breaking the game.
Cool to mention the beholder, but please not much beholders as DDO! 90% of DDO quests have Beholders as enemies.....
Yeah have to agree with this; some of the lesser monsters it's more than okay to use but I'm really hoping we don't have a lich under every rock or a Beholder serving drinks at the inn...
I'm also hoping that they use the more rare encounters as something other than just another boss to kill..an illithid could be used as a protagonist that you are forced to make a deal with to achieve an objective, or you could be conned into serving a Vampire queen to some unspeakable end, something anything other than Grock sees monster Grock kills monster.
There's ways to do almost anything in The Foundry, it's really an incredibly powerful toolset.
However, there are also limitations...
If I were to build this in The Foundry, I'd set a trigger to close the door behind you when walked into the room, and then further into the room, I would trigger the monster spawn.
I'm not sure if it would be possible to make it appear as the thick black substance pouring from the drain in the wall, but we may have other tools to help with that.
Cheers,
Stormshade
I cannot wait to see what monsters we will have to work with also.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Each with their unique model.
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
- W.E.H.
Other tools...please elaborate!!!
b:thanks
BTW some of you have friend requests, sorry to the blokes that requested me i took my time and by accident noticed, they dont advertise well when you log in.
What will our might adventures do to put a stop to this horrible and unimaginable crime? Why of course they are going to hack through tens upon thousands of chickens, evil chickens! until they can get to the top of the barn where the dark and powerful chicken wizards are, but can they get to grip with them when faced by the mutated chicken with an unusual amount of feathers!?
Find out next week on Neverwinter Mmo!*
*Terms and conditions apply, never winter may or may not be out next week, no chickens where harmed in this script, if you feel any kind of burning sensations please visit a doctor!
EEP!
(Sorry to all seven of you had NO idea as it doesn't notify us and I go straight to this forum all accepted.)
OK i change my answer DARK SUN FTW.
Yay another convert! Sorry halflings, no meal today!
http://aphs.worldnomads.com/vorpalbunny/21704/<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>_killerrabbit.jpg
RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!
*Runs*
You mean the monster of Caerbannog with nasty big pointy teeth...
look, sir robin soiled his armor.
I however, am not afraid.
The "ling" monster. If you have always wondered where halflings come from, I know you would support its presence in game.
Duergar NPCs that are continually enraged when referred to as "ginger dwarves."
And Frogs, because they're apparently dangerous enough to warrant an entry in the monster manuals alongside Demons, Dragons, and Gnomes.