We lose combined rating of 5k on combat enchant, 1.5k on bonus, and 1.5k on runestone. So 8% on everything.
The lack of combined rating is an interesting aspect. Definitely smells like the system being designed to allow for higher item level and not capping all important stats like it is currently. Imho this will require even more specialized builds for scaled content where higher item level means nothing and you want to cap percentages as much as possible instead. Not saying it's bad, but if it is indeed the case this should have been better communicated.
It will harder to specialize builds now, since weapon/armor enchants are merged into 6 total(3 for tank, 3 for dps), and enchantments that had flexibility(3 way splits) are also gone. No barkshield, means anything requiring temp shield...gone. No eclipse, no recharge of stamina. No runestone to balance stats. Curious to see if multiple of the same combat enchantment stack, or is it going to be where only 1 really works in party, if 3 are wearing same one.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
@noworries#8859 Feedback: I just did the math on maxing enchants for 12 slots and it’s staggering the amount of AD and Zen needed. This got me thinking about playing alts and the proposal for an account wide enchant. Instead of having a reclaimable account wide enchant I propose making a “shared bank” of sorts for the enchants. Each character can associate enchants from this shared bank with their loadout. When the character logs out the enchants are unequipped and returned to the shared bank. When the next character logs in it pulls the associated enchants and equips them. Same for changing loadouts, unequip and re-equip them.
Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - The Freak Core - Xbone Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - The Freak Core - Xbone Magnus - Fighter - Tank for queues - The Freak Core - Xbone Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
@noworries#8859 Feedback: I just did the math on maxing enchants for 12 slots and it’s staggering the amount of AD and Zen needed. This got me thinking about playing alts and the proposal for an account wide enchant. Instead of having a reclaimable account wide enchant I propose making a “shared bank” of sorts for the enchants. Each character can associate enchants from this shared bank with their loadout. When the character logs out the enchants are unequipped and returned to the shared bank. When the next character logs in it pulls the associated enchants and equips them. Same for changing loadouts, unequip and re-equip them.
Definitely agree with this suggestion. Maybe add a button that moves all enchants to shared bank. Then Having a "save enchant setup" button and a "load setup" button that can take enchants from shared bank and slot them in according to the saved setup.
Yes with the old system, the enchants on my alts worked and I didn’t have to switch one good enchant between them all. I will now though. So less play with the alts, less buying things because razing them up is too expensive and we all know what’s in the Zen store is obsolete every next mod.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
If you didn't want to say you're using augment, thats fine, was easily guessed correctly. The runestone gives 7.5k on 3 stats now. If not using the augment, you don't get that, and lose 8% across the board if max all enchants. Yes you gain 22.5k extra while you're losing 80k on the 10 stats when everything lvled up, if an augment slotted. The 80k loss is evident and obvious, unless not wanting to see it.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
If you didn't want to say you're using augment, thats fine, was easily guessed correctly. The runestone gives 7.5k on 3 stats now. If not using the augment, you don't get that, and lose 8% across the board if max all enchants. Yes you gain 22.5k extra while you're losing 80k on the 10 stats when everything lvled up, if an augment slotted. The 80k loss is evident and obvious, unless not wanting to see it.
Why would I share my build and how it is affected by the changes if it was secret ? I understand that you are not particulary happy with the new system, and do not understand how the neverwinter ratings system works, but please dont take it out on me
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
If you didn't want to say you're using augment, thats fine, was easily guessed correctly. The runestone gives 7.5k on 3 stats now. If not using the augment, you don't get that, and lose 8% across the board if max all enchants. Yes you gain 22.5k extra while you're losing 80k on the 10 stats when everything lvled up, if an augment slotted. The 80k loss is evident and obvious, unless not wanting to see it.
Why would I share my build and how it is affected by the changes if it was secret ? I understand that you are not particulary happy with the new system, and do not understand how the neverwinter ratings system works, but please dont take it out on me
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
OK, whatever you say. We go up 15k IL, and get 7k combined rating. We lose 8k per stat, or 8%. That can be offset with an augment on 3 stats, so losing 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Not saying it's a secret, saying you always support changes, even when it's obvious players are losing 8% on each stat x10, or 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Or is that not correct.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
If you didn't want to say you're using augment, thats fine, was easily guessed correctly. The runestone gives 7.5k on 3 stats now. If not using the augment, you don't get that, and lose 8% across the board if max all enchants. Yes you gain 22.5k extra while you're losing 80k on the 10 stats when everything lvled up, if an augment slotted. The 80k loss is evident and obvious, unless not wanting to see it.
Why would I share my build and how it is affected by the changes if it was secret ? I understand that you are not particulary happy with the new system, and do not understand how the neverwinter ratings system works, but please dont take it out on me
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
OK, whatever you say. We go up 15k IL, and get 7k combined rating. We lose 8k per stat, or 8%. That can be offset with an augment on 3 stats, so losing 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Not saying it's a secret, saying you always support changes, even when it's obvious players are losing 8% on each stat x10, or 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Or is that not correct.
I gain 4380 item level compared to live, where do you get your 15000 item level from ?
And why would you not use the benefits of the new system to counter the negative side effects you are so focused on ?
If I were to upgrade my diesel car to an electric car but refuse to charge the battery, that would show my lack of comprehension, not a design flaw with the car ?
I do not always support changes btw. I did not support the removal of the foundry, I do not support the devs ignoring PVP, I do not support the lack of alternatives in the new Combat enchantments, I do not support the lack of exchange for enchantments below rank 10, I do not support the lack of exchange for marks/enchanting stones.
I do support the progress and QOL improvement that is the new refinement/enchantment system.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
If you didn't want to say you're using augment, thats fine, was easily guessed correctly. The runestone gives 7.5k on 3 stats now. If not using the augment, you don't get that, and lose 8% across the board if max all enchants. Yes you gain 22.5k extra while you're losing 80k on the 10 stats when everything lvled up, if an augment slotted. The 80k loss is evident and obvious, unless not wanting to see it.
Why would I share my build and how it is affected by the changes if it was secret ? I understand that you are not particulary happy with the new system, and do not understand how the neverwinter ratings system works, but please dont take it out on me
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
OK, whatever you say. We go up 15k IL, and get 7k combined rating. We lose 8k per stat, or 8%. That can be offset with an augment on 3 stats, so losing 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Not saying it's a secret, saying you always support changes, even when it's obvious players are losing 8% on each stat x10, or 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Or is that not correct.
I gain 4380 item level compared to live, where do you get your 15000 item level from ?
Lvl all the enchants, you go up 15k. Only go up 7k combined rating. Get 5k IL from combat, 1.5k from bonus, and 1.5k from companion runestone=8k with no combined rating. Please feel free to enlighten.
@wilbur626 , since you know the system so much better than everyone else, you already know this...your IL wasn't offset as much as it should have been, since they gave you higher rank 4 that are temporary. The 4380 was actually 4k(combat), 1.2k(runestone) and 1.2k(bonus)=6.4k. They raised your enchants IL from live with the fake rank 4's that are temp across the board and cut into the 6.4k.
If a char/alt has full set of enchants/runestones/weapon enchant/armor enchants of the current lowest current rank I would prefer if they can get full set of the new lowest rank ( 1).
If a char/alt has full set of enchants/runestones/weapon enchant/armor enchants of the current highest current rank they should get a full set of new rank (4)
And yes they really need to think about proper use of combined rating i don't want it to be like now when best weapon enchant for a healer is no enchant
So basicially all the time I have spent to reach a high enough IL to get certain content is now wasted time. All the enchants that I have at lvl 9 and below are basicially useless along with the Marks of potency and enchanting stones I have collected in order to upgrade enchants. I don't see this as a good move at all. I will basicially lose IL, and have to grind my way back up on multipule toons. I would rather have seen new content that is playable by most of the playerbase. As is the content for VoS literally I can now play as of this week because it took me that long to grind out the IL to be able to do so. In January I will have been here as a part of the playerbase for a year. So that gives you an idea of how long it took me to reach 45+K IL to be able to even play VoS. Granted I have 8 toons, 1 for every class, and if I would of just stuck to 1 toon would have made it there faster, but thats not my play style. Anyway this I see as a complete waste of resourses for the DEV team. Just my two cents.
> @stark760 said: > You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
The combined rating that was taken away from the 6 runestones...better?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
I copied my current build to preview to check out this horrible stat loss and I fail to understand what all the fuss is about ;
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Guessing you have an augment slotted, getting 7.5k on 3 stats then. The loss in stat is there, minus the tinkering you did. You lost 4.4% def, 5.7% crit avoid, deflect went up, why im assuming you slotted augment, 5.6% on acc, etc. Looks like you slotted augment with combat, deflect, deflect sev, or slotted all def to 1 of those stats to mask the loss. Go ahead and summon reg comp and show the stats. they will all go down the 5.5% or so acc, crit avoid, etc did. Only the augment stopped that, but im guessing you knew that, but just didnt want to say thats the only option to not lose that % on every stat.
Im using the Cat augment both on live and preview, the gearing/companions/insignia/boons are identical. The only change is the enchantments and the combat enchantment (orange/far right screenshot).
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
If you didn't want to say you're using augment, thats fine, was easily guessed correctly. The runestone gives 7.5k on 3 stats now. If not using the augment, you don't get that, and lose 8% across the board if max all enchants. Yes you gain 22.5k extra while you're losing 80k on the 10 stats when everything lvled up, if an augment slotted. The 80k loss is evident and obvious, unless not wanting to see it.
Why would I share my build and how it is affected by the changes if it was secret ? I understand that you are not particulary happy with the new system, and do not understand how the neverwinter ratings system works, but please dont take it out on me
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
OK, whatever you say. We go up 15k IL, and get 7k combined rating. We lose 8k per stat, or 8%. That can be offset with an augment on 3 stats, so losing 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Not saying it's a secret, saying you always support changes, even when it's obvious players are losing 8% on each stat x10, or 8% on 7 stats if using an augment. Or is that not correct.
I gain 4380 item level compared to live, where do you get your 15000 item level from ?
Lvl all the enchants, you go up 15k. Only go up 7k combined rating. Get 5k IL from combat, 1.5k from bonus, and 1.5k from companion runestone=8k with no combined rating. Please feel free to enlighten.
Let me get this right.
If your damage/damage resistance/threat generation/healing is increased, does it really matter what %s are shown in your character sheet ?
In your calculation you ignore ratings gained from the enchantments you rank up ?
"Lvl all the enchants, you go up 15k. Only go up 7k combined rating." You gain 12150 combined rating from enchants.
Do you intend to only rank up enchantments to progress ? No adjustments made ? Is this how you build on live aswell ?
If I were you, I would try to ignore the non-90% stats in your character sheet and think about proper builds for you toon. When going for extremely high item level in this new system, I suggest you start by looking at your class' forte stats.
I'm going to try to keep it swift and simple, it's only feedback.
"No More Unslot Cost" - Good, page for enchants was much needed long ago.
"The enchantment page has the following enchantment slots" - Why are we only getting 1 utility slot? We used to have 5, plus the value is the same as offense or defense, it's not big especially since the stats in there aren't that useful beside outgoing healing... Same for bonus, only one, not a big value, I'm going to miss my 25% extra speed from enchants solely. - Why do we have to choose between armor en weapon enchant? It seems pretty infortunate, for tanks of all things who are going to lose some aggro from less damage, unless they give up damage reduction... - Only having a choice between 3 in either armor/weapon enchants seems really dumbed down, do you consider porting the rest of the old enchants over? Sure, most people would use a couple of the same, but these aren't even the ones you converted, so that's not an argument. And it would have been a great occasion to put balance into the less desired ones (that include prominence which is horrible which you ported). - Why don't weapon enchants also give outgoing healing? Between damage boost and damage reduction, I feel healers don't really benefit from either, a little too recurring statement...
"Exchange Cost" - Why not buy mythic right away? Don't wanna go through refining stuff again, I will have well enough medallions for that I'm pretty sure.
"Preservation and Coal Wards" - Pres wards, I don't know if the change is good or bad, it seems good from what I understand, may be more economical... Motes are meh, it feels like I'll have to use coalescent all the time? The range from 1 to 10% for the others looks pretty weak, unless we can stack several together...
"Artifacts/Artifact Equipment" - I liked to fill the item without upgrading for alts, but I guess it makes more sense this way, not a big loss, but still a loss...
"Weapon/Armor Enchant Effects" - Great addition, hopefully this means there will be more of them released periodically (hopefully more than 3 in a year and half). - Too bad the echange is limited to rank 10 though, I think you could have made it so we could trade lower ranks for just a skin and no medallions.
"Will I have to figure this all out before I can play again?"
- Decent you let people catch up with time limited enchants, feels kind of a "taste the product to buy more product" tactic but I get it.
"at which point you’d want to have exchanged your old enchants for new ones to take their place."
- That doesn't really acknowledge the fact most people play with rank 9 enchants since they're the highest most accessible level, majority of my alts do in fact. It's not gonna be great after a week. Better start saving, the exchange is not for you.
Now one thing you haven't mentioned here are collars, don't you think they would need some balance too in their refining process? They're awfully expensive (mostly due to the greater shards and their stupidly high number required compared to how scarce they are in the game) but the bonus and item level they give aren't great. If you compare with the new enchants, especially those bonus enchants which give similar value, that's actually pretty sad.
Another thing, you mentionned all these items giving a lot more item level and all, and I may be missing something but they don't give combined rating at all? So it's actually a big nerf? Since the higher our item level go, the more we lose stats in ratings, and combined rating used to give a lot more stats combined than the actual stat the enchant gave. If it stays that way, it's a major loss, and the statement that even the low new enchants give more stats than the old ones untrue.
@wilbur, do you man, and keep spoutng the company line. When facts were presented, like we go from 63k IL to 78k IL, you don't want to talk about it. And overall, we got 7k combined rating vs that 15k IL increase, and go down 8% because of it. Please show where threat generation went up, or is that just you going by base damage total? According to Rainer, each 1% of stat equate to roughly .5% damage. So if you're going to say threat is going up because of the base damage total, wouldn't dropping power, acc, crit, crit sev %, at the same time lower threat with less dps?
With 24 enchants/runestones at 200 IL each, we were getting 4.8k IL from them. Now we get 10 for those 24 slots(4 off/4def/1utility/1runestone), at 1.5k IL each...15k vs 4.8k, and add in new bonus IL 1.5k...11.7k change...now look at weapon/armor giving 1k IL now each, for 2k total...vs change being 5k....3k more....so 14.7k change in IL from 24 enchants and weapon armor, to 10 enchants/1 runestone/1combat. And if lose .5% dps for every 1% offense stat, and we lose 40% stat on 5 offense stats, so effectively lose 20%. Great, we get 1/2 back. How does that help threat generation?
@wilbur, do you man, and keep spoutng the company line. When facts were presented, like we go from 63k IL to 78k IL, you don't want to talk about it. And overall, we got 7k combined rating vs that 15k IL increase, and go down 8% because of it. Please show where threat generation went up, or is that just you going by base damage total? According to Rainer, each 1% of stat equate to roughly .5% damage. So if you're going to say threat is going up because of the base damage total, wouldn't dropping power, acc, crit, crit sev %, at the same time lower threat with less dps?
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
So did you leave the temporary new items they gave you slotted? If you left the temporary R4s in then of course your stats and item level will be much higher.
On the other hand if I trade all my stuff in (2 R12 wep ench, a R14 armor ench, 17 R15s 1 R14, 1 R13, 2 R12 5 R11 and 1 R10) that's essentially 600 medallions. If I get R2 enchs and R4 companion and combat enchantments then I need 840 medallions, or another 240 or in AD cost, 9,600,000.
Obviously it would be smarter to just buy any R1s than it would be to burn medallions at current costs so looking at that it would be 6 R2 packs, the 2 R4 packs for companion/combat + buying 4 R1s. This would put me at spending 400,000 AD.
So this is Live:
Then on a fresh copy to preview, no guild boons:
After unequipping all the temporary enchs they give us:
After reselecting the same stats for enchantments but limiting myself to the 600 medallions I'd get trading in:
And finally, adding guild boons:
So looking at live vs the preview shot OMG wow wow so buffed right? Except power as a percent is lower, accuracy is a tiny bit better and so is combat adv, crit is a tiny bit better and severity is a lot higher. But most defensive stats are actually a bit better, how can this be? well that doesn't include guild boons so lets do that.
Oh, now power is closer but still worse as a percent, accuracy is the same, as is comb adv, crit and crit severity got worse though. All the defensive stats are still a tiny bit better than live though, so where's the problem right? Well now I no longer have an armor enchantment, I can either take a DPS one or take a protective "combat" enchantment meaning my bloodtheft allowing me to take a lot more damage and not need heals/stones is gone. So now I'm more squishy and I personally don't think 80k HP makes up for that. BUT WAIT! This is with the fake stones they gave us, lets switch gears and look at what it would be like if I limited myself to the 600 medallions from my old stones and regeared.
So without guild boons we first see power is much lower, accuracy is slightly better, combat adv is great, crit's worse but severity is a little better than live. Every single defensive stat is worse though... and this is with an augment (same as live) with a R4 companion enchantment. Wow. Well what if we add in the guild boons?
And now we see power is closer, but it's worse not only in the raw stat but much worse percentage wise still. Accuracy is fine, combat advantage is slightly better than live still, crit and crit severity have gotten worse though vs no guild boons. How about defensive stats? They obviously got even worse but now I have about 50k more HP than without guild boons but I don't think that really makes up for 2.9% less defense, 4.1% less awareness, 3.3% less crit avoid, 3.2% less deflect and 2.3% less deflect severity in addition to not being able to heal myself at all from my armor enchantment.
Also I would assume most players have less than a full set of R15s and 2 R14 wep/armor ench but assuming they did... you end up with, funny enough that same 600 medallions I did for my trades.
So, I don't blame you for not doing the work, not looking at all the stats given etc yourself because it does take some time to go over but now it should be obvious where the problems are.
At best you end up pretty close to where you are now but significantly more squishy, especially with the loss of armor enchantments. Think of how many use bark which outright ignores damage. Sure long term every stat will be higher than they are now but that requires significant investment and you still lose that extra defensive armor enchantment. Which IMO, feels bad and wrong.
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
So did you leave the temporary new items they gave you slotted? .
No.
It is very hard to understand your post cause of the formatting.
What combat enchantment are you using ?
Is this with companion enhancement ?
Is this the transformation from Live to Preview with enchants you get from the exchange ?
If the 2 screenshots I assume is your live/preview setup, this is what changed :
Base damage : +7,76%. Base hit points : +7% Damage/Damage resistance (depending on what combat enchantment) : +8%
Stats total : 658,3%, down from 699,1%
Based on your stat distribution, im guessing you play a DPS.
The most relevant stats for you would be the offensive stats :
This would mean the base damage increase alone is enough to cover up for the offensive stats lost. (check NWhub for detailed calculations). If you chose an offensive combat enchantment, you would see a major DPS increase.
Since you are concerned about your defensive stats, we should take a look at those aswell :
This is where you got hit hardest, but since your damage loss is already made up for from item level increase alone you could choose to slot a defensive combat enchantment. Any combat enchantment would grant you 8% damage resistance, surpassing the stats lost.
If the stat loss is still a concern for you, I strongly suggest that you start using an augment companion as these got a major buff with the new companion enhancement. That part of the new system could actually make your toon deal even more damage than what you currently do on live with a "striker" companion.
A full set of r15 + 2x r14 weapon/armor = 720 tokens.
Post edited by wilbur626 on
Elite Whaleboy
0
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
This community is so toxic, whenever any change occurs, they are ranting and raving. Make content easier, OMG they are dumbing down the game! Make content harder, OMG they are catering to the 1%! Add higher levels of gear, OMG cash grab! Adds horizontal progression or skins, OMG I want progression! No matter what the developers do, people will scream and kick, and sometimes, it's even the same groups of people.
This is not meant to nullify the concerns people have over parts of the refinement change, for feedback is needed and not everything proposed is perfect. But people of this community tend to over-react and it's getting really tiresome in a game we are all supposed to have fun in.
> @arazith07 said: > > This is not meant to nullify the concerns people have over parts of the refinement change, for feedback is needed and not everything proposed is perfect. But people of this community tend to over-react and it's getting really tiresome in a game we are all supposed to have fun in.
Not perfect? The change I get. Whatever. They either had to raise the max level of enchants or do something like this to add progression.
What they didn't have to do, and why most people are mad and have every right to be so, is that they are taking MoPs out of the game with no equal trade in right after players just bought a lot of them because of the sale and having no trade in on rank 9 weapon and armor enchants after people spent real money on them. The rank 9 weapon enchant is still on the zen store. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
8
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
> @arazith07 said: > > This is not meant to nullify the concerns people have over parts of the refinement change, for feedback is needed and not everything proposed is perfect. But people of this community tend to over-react and it's getting really tiresome in a game we are all supposed to have fun in.
Not perfect? The change I get. Whatever. They either had to raise the max level of enchants or do something like this to add progression.
What they didn't have to do, and why most people are mad and have every right to be so, is that they are taking MoPs out of the game with no equal trade in right after players just bought a lot of them because of the sale and having no trade in on rank 9 weapon and armor enchants after people spent real money on them. The rank 9 weapon enchant is still on the zen store. It's HAMSTER.
Congrats, you have actually looked into the changes and have some valid concerns, this post was not meant to nullify or attack the concerns people have.
@wilbur, do you man, and keep spoutng the company line. When facts were presented, like we go from 63k IL to 78k IL, you don't want to talk about it. And overall, we got 7k combined rating vs that 15k IL increase, and go down 8% because of it. Please show where threat generation went up, or is that just you going by base damage total? According to Rainer, each 1% of stat equate to roughly .5% damage. So if you're going to say threat is going up because of the base damage total, wouldn't dropping power, acc, crit, crit sev %, at the same time lower threat with less dps?
Why do you not upgrade gear while you are upgrading enchantments ?
Why do you ignore damage increase from item level and combat enchantment ?
I'll post the chart from a few months ago once i get home from work. I'm not ignoring damage increase from combat enchant, but if a tank, most are going with damage resist, which is not going to improve threat. Yes, IL will go up and base damage goes up, but if you slot the cat, you get awareness, deflect, deflect sev, no offensive stats. You will lose close to 8% on pow and the others. The bump in the 4 offensive enchants will help 9k in stat vs the 5 offensive slots previous(assuming tank build and mostly defensive) at 300 stat each(1500 total), so we gain 7.5k stat on our offensive stats and lose 8k on each of the 5 because the 15k IL increase and only 7k combined rating. What gear is going to offset that. Still waiting to hear how this is going to help threat generation.
This community is so toxic, whenever any change occurs, they are ranting and raving. Make content easier, OMG they are dumbing down the game! Make content harder, OMG they are catering to the 1%! Add higher levels of gear, OMG cash grab! Adds horizontal progression or skins, OMG I want progression! No matter what the developers do, people will scream and kick, and sometimes, it's even the same groups of people.
This is not meant to nullify the concerns people have over parts of the refinement change, for feedback is needed and not everything proposed is perfect. But people of this community tend to over-react and it's getting really tiresome in a game we are all supposed to have fun in.
This overall has been a very constructive thread with lots of valid concerns and decent suggestions and, yes, the usual noise that's called the internet. I agree crawling through can be a bit messy, but that's what you sign up for when doing feedback threads.
Comments
> You left off the 6 runestones that had combined rating...for obvious reasons.
We have 12 runestones now?
We lose around 1% on all stats just from that change.
Is it the fact that it will be harder to reach 90% (even if there is an increase in damage/damage resistance) ?
Or is the problem how this new system will work with scaling ? If so, wouldnt that be another problem with the already problematic scaling system ?
Is the % loss that you are able to identify so severe that 10% Damage Resistance and close to 10% HP is not able to make up for it ?
It would be kinda stupid to compare a live build to a preview build if they were not the same imho.
Feedback: I just did the math on maxing enchants for 12 slots and it’s staggering the amount of AD and Zen needed. This got me thinking about playing alts and the proposal for an account wide enchant. Instead of having a reclaimable account wide enchant I propose making a “shared bank” of sorts for the enchants. Each character can associate enchants from this shared bank with their loadout. When the character logs out the enchants are unequipped and returned to the shared bank. When the next character logs in it pulls the associated enchants and equips them. Same for changing loadouts, unequip and re-equip them.
Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - The Freak Core - Xbone
Magnus - Fighter - Tank for queues - The Freak Core - Xbone
Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
Maybe add a button that moves all enchants to shared bank.
Then Having a "save enchant setup" button and a "load setup" button that can take enchants from shared bank and slot them in according to the saved setup.
That would be a great improvement.
I will now though.
So less play with the alts, less buying things because razing them up is too expensive and we all know what’s in the Zen store is obsolete every next mod.
If this loss you are talking about is mitigated by the new system itself (if you look closely it is actually a buff), wouldnt that mean that you nay-sayers are wrong ?
And why would you not use the benefits of the new system to counter the negative side effects you are so focused on ?
If I were to upgrade my diesel car to an electric car but refuse to charge the battery, that would show my lack of comprehension, not a design flaw with the car ?
I do not always support changes btw. I did not support the removal of the foundry, I do not support the devs ignoring PVP, I do not support the lack of alternatives in the new Combat enchantments, I do not support the lack of exchange for enchantments below rank 10, I do not support the lack of exchange for marks/enchanting stones.
I do support the progress and QOL improvement that is the new refinement/enchantment system.
can get full set of the new lowest rank ( 1).
If a char/alt has full set of enchants/runestones/weapon enchant/armor enchants of the current highest current rank
they should get a full set of new rank (4)
And yes they really need to think about proper use of combined rating i don't want it to be like now when best weapon enchant for a healer is no enchant
If your damage/damage resistance/threat generation/healing is increased, does it really matter what %s are shown in your character sheet ?
In your calculation you ignore ratings gained from the enchantments you rank up ?
"Lvl all the enchants, you go up 15k. Only go up 7k combined rating." You gain 12150 combined rating from enchants.
Do you intend to only rank up enchantments to progress ? No adjustments made ? Is this how you build on live aswell ?
If I were you, I would try to ignore the non-90% stats in your character sheet and think about proper builds for you toon. When going for extremely high item level in this new system, I suggest you start by looking at your class' forte stats.
"No More Unslot Cost"
- Good, page for enchants was much needed long ago.
"The enchantment page has the following enchantment slots"
- Why are we only getting 1 utility slot? We used to have 5, plus the value is the same as offense or defense, it's not big especially since the stats in there aren't that useful beside outgoing healing... Same for bonus, only one, not a big value, I'm going to miss my 25% extra speed from enchants solely.
- Why do we have to choose between armor en weapon enchant? It seems pretty infortunate, for tanks of all things who are going to lose some aggro from less damage, unless they give up damage reduction...
- Only having a choice between 3 in either armor/weapon enchants seems really dumbed down, do you consider porting the rest of the old enchants over? Sure, most people would use a couple of the same, but these aren't even the ones you converted, so that's not an argument. And it would have been a great occasion to put balance into the less desired ones (that include prominence which is horrible which you ported).
- Why don't weapon enchants also give outgoing healing? Between damage boost and damage reduction, I feel healers don't really benefit from either, a little too recurring statement...
"Exchange Cost"
- Why not buy mythic right away? Don't wanna go through refining stuff again, I will have well enough medallions for that I'm pretty sure.
"Preservation and Coal Wards"
- Pres wards, I don't know if the change is good or bad, it seems good from what I understand, may be more economical...
Motes are meh, it feels like I'll have to use coalescent all the time? The range from 1 to 10% for the others looks pretty weak, unless we can stack several together...
"Artifacts/Artifact Equipment"
- I liked to fill the item without upgrading for alts, but I guess it makes more sense this way, not a big loss, but still a loss...
"Weapon/Armor Enchant Effects"
- Great addition, hopefully this means there will be more of them released periodically (hopefully more than 3 in a year and half).
- Too bad the echange is limited to rank 10 though, I think you could have made it so we could trade lower ranks for just a skin and no medallions.
"Will I have to figure this all out before I can play again?"
- Decent you let people catch up with time limited enchants, feels kind of a "taste the product to buy more product" tactic but I get it.
"at which point you’d want to have exchanged your old enchants for new ones to take their place."
- That doesn't really acknowledge the fact most people play with rank 9 enchants since they're the highest most accessible level, majority of my alts do in fact. It's not gonna be great after a week. Better start saving, the exchange is not for you.
Now one thing you haven't mentioned here are collars, don't you think they would need some balance too in their refining process? They're awfully expensive (mostly due to the greater shards and their stupidly high number required compared to how scarce they are in the game) but the bonus and item level they give aren't great. If you compare with the new enchants, especially those bonus enchants which give similar value, that's actually pretty sad.
Another thing, you mentionned all these items giving a lot more item level and all, and I may be missing something but they don't give combined rating at all? So it's actually a big nerf? Since the higher our item level go, the more we lose stats in ratings, and combined rating used to give a lot more stats combined than the actual stat the enchant gave. If it stays that way, it's a major loss, and the statement that even the low new enchants give more stats than the old ones untrue.
Why do you not upgrade gear while you are upgrading enchantments ?
Why do you ignore damage increase from item level and combat enchantment ?
So did you leave the temporary new items they gave you slotted? If you left the temporary R4s in then of course your stats and item level will be much higher.
On the other hand if I trade all my stuff in (2 R12 wep ench, a R14 armor ench, 17 R15s 1 R14, 1 R13, 2 R12 5 R11 and 1 R10) that's essentially 600 medallions. If I get R2 enchs and R4 companion and combat enchantments then I need 840 medallions, or another 240 or in AD cost, 9,600,000.
Obviously it would be smarter to just buy any R1s than it would be to burn medallions at current costs so looking at that it would be 6 R2 packs, the 2 R4 packs for companion/combat + buying 4 R1s. This would put me at spending 400,000 AD.
So this is Live:
Then on a fresh copy to preview, no guild boons:
After unequipping all the temporary enchs they give us:
After reselecting the same stats for enchantments but limiting myself to the 600 medallions I'd get trading in:
And finally, adding guild boons:
So looking at live vs the preview shot OMG wow wow so buffed right? Except power as a percent is lower, accuracy is a tiny bit better and so is combat adv, crit is a tiny bit better and severity is a lot higher. But most defensive stats are actually a bit better, how can this be? well that doesn't include guild boons so lets do that.
Oh, now power is closer but still worse as a percent, accuracy is the same, as is comb adv, crit and crit severity got worse though. All the defensive stats are still a tiny bit better than live though, so where's the problem right? Well now I no longer have an armor enchantment, I can either take a DPS one or take a protective "combat" enchantment meaning my bloodtheft allowing me to take a lot more damage and not need heals/stones is gone. So now I'm more squishy and I personally don't think 80k HP makes up for that. BUT WAIT! This is with the fake stones they gave us, lets switch gears and look at what it would be like if I limited myself to the 600 medallions from my old stones and regeared.
So without guild boons we first see power is much lower, accuracy is slightly better, combat adv is great, crit's worse but severity is a little better than live. Every single defensive stat is worse though... and this is with an augment (same as live) with a R4 companion enchantment. Wow. Well what if we add in the guild boons?
And now we see power is closer, but it's worse not only in the raw stat but much worse percentage wise still. Accuracy is fine, combat advantage is slightly better than live still, crit and crit severity have gotten worse though vs no guild boons. How about defensive stats? They obviously got even worse but now I have about 50k more HP than without guild boons but I don't think that really makes up for 2.9% less defense, 4.1% less awareness, 3.3% less crit avoid, 3.2% less deflect and 2.3% less deflect severity in addition to not being able to heal myself at all from my armor enchantment.
Also I would assume most players have less than a full set of R15s and 2 R14 wep/armor ench but assuming they did... you end up with, funny enough that same 600 medallions I did for my trades.
So, I don't blame you for not doing the work, not looking at all the stats given etc yourself because it does take some time to go over but now it should be obvious where the problems are.
At best you end up pretty close to where you are now but significantly more squishy, especially with the loss of armor enchantments. Think of how many use bark which outright ignores damage. Sure long term every stat will be higher than they are now but that requires significant investment and you still lose that extra defensive armor enchantment. Which IMO, feels bad and wrong.
It is very hard to understand your post cause of the formatting.
What combat enchantment are you using ?
Is this with companion enhancement ?
Is this the transformation from Live to Preview with enchants you get from the exchange ?
If the 2 screenshots I assume is your live/preview setup, this is what changed :
Base damage : +7,76%.
Base hit points : +7%
Damage/Damage resistance (depending on what combat enchantment) : +8%
Stats total : 658,3%, down from 699,1%
Based on your stat distribution, im guessing you play a DPS.
The most relevant stats for you would be the offensive stats :
Power : -7,4%
Accuracy : -3,3%
Combat Advantage : +0,4%
Critical Strike : +2%
Critical Severity : +1,5%
Offensive stats lost : -6,8%
This would mean the base damage increase alone is enough to cover up for the offensive stats lost. (check NWhub for detailed calculations). If you chose an offensive combat enchantment, you would see a major DPS increase.
Since you are concerned about your defensive stats, we should take a look at those aswell :
Defense : -1,9%
Awareness : -4,1%
Critical Avoidance : -3,3%
Deflection : +3,2%
Deflect Severity : -3,3%
Defensive stats lost : -9,4%
This is where you got hit hardest, but since your damage loss is already made up for from item level increase alone you could choose to slot a defensive combat enchantment. Any combat enchantment would grant you 8% damage resistance, surpassing the stats lost.
If the stat loss is still a concern for you, I strongly suggest that you start using an augment companion as these got a major buff with the new companion enhancement. That part of the new system could actually make your toon deal even more damage than what you currently do on live with a "striker" companion.
A full set of r15 + 2x r14 weapon/armor = 720 tokens.
This is not meant to nullify the concerns people have over parts of the refinement change, for feedback is needed and not everything proposed is perfect. But people of this community tend to over-react and it's getting really tiresome in a game we are all supposed to have fun in.
>
> This is not meant to nullify the concerns people have over parts of the refinement change, for feedback is needed and not everything proposed is perfect. But people of this community tend to over-react and it's getting really tiresome in a game we are all supposed to have fun in.
Not perfect? The change I get. Whatever. They either had to raise the max level of enchants or do something like this to add progression.
What they didn't have to do, and why most people are mad and have every right to be so, is that they are taking MoPs out of the game with no equal trade in right after players just bought a lot of them because of the sale and having no trade in on rank 9 weapon and armor enchants after people spent real money on them. The rank 9 weapon enchant is still on the zen store. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.