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CDP Topic: VIP

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  • devilxjkdevilxjk Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    i'm vip 12, i know that we payed and we deserve.....but we have to watch from outside, a new player need more help than me, if we want to grow the game.

    however dont forget, the idea of improving the VIP spurs us on to continue.

    my new idea:

    vip choice

    12 different vip pack,

    If i'm vip 1 i cant choice, but if i'm vip 2 i can choice from (vip pack1) or (vip pack 2)

    every pack should help a player to raise a character until last pack (with end game content like legendary mount, but with an higher % drop now)

    es. vip pack 4 could drop mark of potency 4 instead vip rank 5 could drop mark of potency rank 5

    and so on




  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,008 Arc User
    edited January 27
    the only reason to buy more than a month at a time is because of ranks. otherwise why would you ever. can you guarantee yourself interest in a video game beyond one month?I have more than a year because of key bundles and promotions. coupled with buying a 6 months at a time at summer and fall. the vast majority of the original year vip I paid for with real money piecemeal. it was probably over 4 months for the first 8 ranks and then it took longer for the last 4 months. as I recall there wre a bunch of promotions that didn't actually increase rank that I took part of. I wasn't worried about the last four ranks as much at the time. still pretty casual in my approach at that time. I do recall I finally broke down and just bought the last rank for the bank though even though I had plenty of back log. and the reason I did pay money for it at first was the 30 keys for 10 bucks seemed like a very good value to me and I really wanted to open some lockboxes. the price of a dollar a key seemed like something I'd never ever pay for though (And I still wouldn't) if I wanted to gamble at a dollar a ticket I'd go buy real life lottery. then after the first month I started to see some benefit to the other things. I read ahead and was like dayum.. travel post.. need that...
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,142 Arc User
    edited January 27

    the only reason to buy more than a month at a time is because of ranks. otherwise why would you ever.

    I only buy 6 months after I already have rank 12 because of discount and sometime, with the extra companion.
    I bought VIP 12 in the beginning because Cryptic was so smart to put the bank portal in r12. Bank portal was what I really wanted.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,142 Arc User
    edited January 27
    rafaelda said:



    Auction House
    Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
    I know i will get a lot of hate here but i agree 100% with this

    If the reason is about stopping "list,de-list and re-list" to undercut, you don't have to get rid of no posting fee.
    You just need to add the cancellation fee and if the transaction is already charged posting fee, cancellation fee is 0.

    I personally don't "list,de-list and re-list" but when my stuff is not sold and return to me, I don't want to pay the fee.
    If you see my practice is also a bad thing, ok. That means it is not just about undercutting.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 175 Arc User
    edited January 27
    Hi,

    So i didn't expect VIP would be the 2nd CDP, but let's roll my own feedback
    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
    Mainly, I am fine with the current shape of the VIP, so my feedback will mostly focus on answering the questions you brought on the table about VIP.

    Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
    Try to give you my honnest opinion about your ideas, even though it is obviously quite a subjective one.

    Mmmh... i don't think your feedback format fits well with that CDP :P so I will just continue with quoting your ideas and answering about each ones.



    The rate of free keys
    We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?

    Mostly, I was fine with the current rate of free keys, but the fact is I have already 1 legendary mount on each of my 3 biggest toons (1 came from a lockbox, I bought the others during last black friday) : so I probably don't really see the value of the keys the same way a fresh player can see them.

    If an improvement of the odds in the lockboxes happens, I feel it is somehow normal to get accordingly less keys as a VIP than nowdays. Otherwise, with better odds and the same amount of keys from VIP, the players would not be really appealed by the keys pack in the Zen Market, and I feel like it would be a mistake from a business perspective.


    Alternates to keys
    How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?

    More choices, more options = more "economic strategies" in my player mind (even if it's bound to account things, though i would very much enjoy some unbound things :P).
    I would very much like to be able to choose between various items (including the lockbox keys) to spend this VIP currency, rather than always get 1 key/account and 5 healing potions+3 chest reroll tokens/toon.

    But you would need to bring an equivalence for "per toon rewards" (which for me consist of the gold pieces made by selling the healing pots that my 38 toons have for free every day, and the ability to have massive stockpiles of tokens of reroll for dungeon's chests). Otherwise, you will lessen again some of the interests players have to build an "alt-characters army", narrowing the diversity of roles in dungeons some of us are able to throw in (if i loose interest in my alt-army, i will never do the random leveling dungeons queue again with one of my tank or one of my heal, and it doesn't even come to my mind nowdays trying to queue in RLQ with a dps, so i would just skip this queue rather than doing it daily with a tank or healer low geared alt).


    How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?

    There is no real intrisec value in VIP ranks but what advantages each one brings. When i started to be VIP, i remember that my first goal was to "have the VIP keys", so rank 1. The second goal was to get to rank 4 for the travel signpost. The thrid goal was to get the rank12 bank (inbetween there was also getting rid of the pre-taxe on auction house though I can't remember at which rank it was).
    In a sense, it felt like I was progressing in the VIP, step by step, with some satisfaction each time managed to achieve one or the other goal. But, it lasted only up to rank 12 as there was nothing beyond that.

    I didn't get the VIP by putting money in the game : I had this nice feeling, at this time (2017, before the refine rAD/account system), that Neverwinter was super-friendly to f2players (in fact probably the most friendly one on the market at that time).
    I never had any problem with other games revolving around a subscription business model (if it was less than 20€/month) and happily played some. On NWO, because I was enjoying the game very much, because it was so friendly to people not so rich in real life, and even though it wasn't really mandatory considering how i had built my account, I tossed 50€ anyway during black friday 2017, then again 50€ during jubilee 2018. I didn't care about the goodies I could buy on the Zen Market with that : what i considered to be great work deserved to be paid so the game can stay alive.

    Make the VIP ranks disappear while making every advantages of the VIP available right at the first month is in my opinion a great idea, and somewhat a method to avoid the gap that can be seen between an old VIP and a more recent one.
    But, personnaly, I would love to still keep some minor advantages as an "old" VIP, some unique VIP fashion things or titles for exemple after each year, just because I like to show off sometimes :P


    Current Benefits
    Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?

    From which I can't play without (after nearly 3y of continuous VIP) to which I can probably play without (and those i don't care won't be listed) :

    1- travel signpost : I can't imagine my playtime in NWO without it (mostly because I'm playing NWO, not Alexandra Lederman horse riding simulation). Definetely the most important advantage in my eyes.
    2- Access to workshop from the worldmap : I have 38 toons, 34 workshops. I wouldn't stand needing to ride in PE to get to my workshop.
    3- lockbox key. Obviously
    4- Bank/profession and seal vendors/messagebox : same as travel signpost, but not as important.
    5- Injuries immunity : this one is debattable, especially if I bring in the injuries from the traps => I play a rogue as my main character, and I would very much enjoy to be asked to disarm traps sometimes... Honestly, i would be ok if the immunity is only limited to injuries after death. Make the traps a bit more relevent again ;) ^^, make unavoidable traps if not disarmed by a rogue (unless what you have to trigger it and take injury or choose a much longer road to bypass) :P. Add a toolkit as a consumable and as a craft only, so anyone can produce some, sell/buy some, and disarm when no rogue is around. Add some "arcanic" and "divine" kind of traps that rogue can't disarm but wizzard/sorcerer and paladin/cleric can, etc.
    6- no need of a campfire for invokes/prayings : you know why... 38 toons (though most of them are forever sitting at the blacklake campfire ^^)...
    7- daily healing potions for each toons (mostly for selling to NPC so I can fuel all my workshops, but also it allows me to play some of my bad equiped toons with some sort of a security net)
    8- no placement fees in the auction house : segregate the VIP from the f2p players, so i'm sad about it. But I think it's somewhat impossible to do without as it's also probably a tool to avoid too much AH-boting and to discourage trading/channeling massive amounts of AD with the AH from different accounts. I would very much dislike having to prepay the fee though.


    The various discounts, group stats bonus, etc, are things I don't really care about. Though nice, I wouldn't miss any of these.


    New Benefits
    What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?

    To be honnest, the current advantages of the VIP are, in my opinion, quite well designed (especially those in my list above). They don't feel to be too much, but also feel enough, especially in the quality of life category.
    I would only add cosmetics like VIP-only emotes, VIP-only fashion items (that vanish if you don't renew the VIP). Maybe coming with a new rank system if the current benefits all come right at the first month.

    Auction House
    Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?

    I dislike the pre-taxe system (though i understand why f2p players need to prepay the fee). Don't drop that from the VIP as I feel it would quickly dry out the auction house from the wide range of things (even the most useless ones) you can find in it.
    Allowing to withdraw one item/stack from the selling list once a day/account (in case you make a mistake in the amount of 0 after the first digit for exemple ;P), then after that don't allow withdrawing anything anymore until the day later. It may help fighting the perma-undercutting war that makes the prices drop over time, + fight against the usual manuplation of the market after an undercut constest followed by a rafle/razzia at low price to repost everything at higher prices.


    Overall, the changes you are speaking about seem to be reasonnable. I hope there is no "lurking" ideas behind though ^^.
  • blackmagidblackmagid Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 73 Arc User
    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
    My proposal would be to remove the travel post from VIP and add a new weekly reward for having VIP. The reward would be a user choice from a list of useful items.
    Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
    Travel would target every single user of Neverwinter regardless of VIP status. The weekly reward would only target current VIP users.
    Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
    • Travel. User would click “M” to access the map. Any area that has been unlocked by the adventurer would enable a point-to-point teleport. Using Blacklake as an example as you progress further into the area, you come to Hazel the Alchemist. Upon reaching Hazel, you unlock a travel point. More exploration follows and you come across Neverwinter guard (Lakeside) and subsequently unlock another travel point. You can then freely travel between the 2 points at will even from the landing point of the zone.

      Weekly bonus. VIP holder is given a choice of bonus on Monday reset.
    Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
    • Travel. Some people prefer using their favorite method of travel on a map but giving everyone the benefit of point-to-point travel I can only see that as a win-win. Key travel points could be added to the top of the Map, Protectors Enclave, Stronghold + Workshop for instance. Point-to-Point travel is already being used in the new area.
    • Weekly bonus. Giving people a choice of what to them has the most value. This would increase the perceived benefit of VIP other than posting fees, banking / mail on the move and injuries. As the bonus is sent on a Monday – anyone who's VIP was set to expire on Sunday would have to make the decision on whether to re-purchase. What is perceived to be useful would need to be discussed – Sybella + preservation wards would likely be a great starting point.
    Thanks
    Black
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User

    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
    My proposal would be to remove the travel post from VIP and add a new weekly reward for having VIP. The reward would be a user choice from a list of useful items.

    Thanks
    Black

    Don't EVEN think of taking my travel post, Black. :P


  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    Don't touch the bazaar discount, signpost, bank, or mail options please and thanks.
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    Hey, does any other old-timer remember how much coals were in the Tramamamalamalune Store? I can't remember an I'm trying to math. Blame it on my pushing 50. ;)

  • jimmypdtjimmypdt Member Posts: 61 Arc User

    Hey, does any other old-timer remember how much coals were in the Tramamamalamalune Store? I can't remember an I'm trying to math. Blame it on my pushing 50. ;)

    I think it was about 200 bars each. I could be wrong. It was a few years ago. sorry.

    All the best,

    OPTank_
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    jimmypdt said:

    Hey, does any other old-timer remember how much coals were in the Tramamamalamalune Store? I can't remember an I'm trying to math. Blame it on my pushing 50. ;)

    I think it was about 200 bars each. I could be wrong. It was a few years ago. sorry.

    All the best,

    OPTank_
    No, that's what I was remembering, but then I thought, "no, that's way too low."

  • nitocris83nitocris83 Member, Administrator Posts: 2,984 Community Manager

    Nor sure how the topics for this CDP are being picked. Shouldn’t the community have more so say in the topic choice? I for one didnt think the VIP was all that important vs. the fundamental things that need attention in this game. The broken shallow and totally un-fun combat system to my mind is do much more important than VIP changes. I would suggest focusing on the big fundamental areas of improvement first. With that said I am still glad there is some kind of effort being attempted. I just hope it’s not too little too late.

    CDP is still a very new endeavor for most of us (with @cwhitesidedev#9752 being the exception) so we wanted to seed topics for the first several discussions. We can definitely look at putting future topics up for community vote but we also want to make sure there's enough variance in topics to cater to the different player types and that we can keep to a cadence and not get stuck in the "voting" phase. For now, the upcoming schedule is Rewards followed by PvP.
  • duckie#5377 duckie Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    I think it's great we are having these conversations but Gemin is right, the topic of class balance, combat fluidity and char build are what people care about more than anything else, and I honestly believe had such drastically changed not been to those 3 fundamentals Chris wouldn't be here trying to turn this game around. Glad he is here now wish he got here before the mod 16 abomination was foisted on us. To me it would make sense to get the most important aspects out the way, the thing that matters most people. These are the topics that should be the basis of the discussion and then branch out from there with the fluffy stuff.

    We discussed accessibility in the last CDP and some good iideas were shared but it's hard to get excited about these topics when the overriding question is,. Great but what does that mean in terms of the important stuff, will it be fun againm

    PvP next for example .... It's hardly going to ever be engaging with encounter cool downs as they are and running around with at wills until somebody who isn't on cool down obliterated you with their encounters.
    The conversation is a lot more meaningful when we know what PvP will look like in terms of combat fluidity.

    It does seem a bit hamster about face. ☺️
  • burnahbros#7516 burnahbros Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 28
    We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?

    I would be very upset if the amount of keys I receive is reduced regardless of if the odds were improved. Just because the odds are improved does not mean Rngesus will give me good luck and I'm likely to get the same underwhelming drops from the boxes but now less of them if I receive less keys.

    How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?

    This is an interesting option and I'm not against it but the items would have to be vast and vary in value to make it a good change. As an example: currently you can get a Legendary mount from keys, although the odds are stacked against you. If you could trade in the currency for a Legendary mount that would be awesome. Now I'm not saying the amount of currency needed for such an item should be easy to obtain, but instead maybe after 6 months to a years worth of the VIP currency, you could then trade for such a high valued item.

    How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?

    I am 100% against this. This comes off as punishing players who have already purchased VIP rank 12. Myself and many players I have talked to in-game wish to have more Ranks of VIP added not have Ranks removed all together. It feels like a slap in the face and it is very upsetting to even suggest removing VIP Ranks. I do however feel that the ranks could be adjusted to benefit newer players and older players alike. Moving certain benefits to lower ranks of VIP and adding benefits to higher ranks of VIP could accomplish this. I don't know the numbers but I'd think that VIP is currently one of your bigger revenue sources. Maybe I'm wrong but I know that among the community it is always the number 1 suggestion for newer players to spend their purchased Zen on and thought of as the highest value for any player to spend real life money.

    Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?

    I value all the Benefits of VIP.
    Rank 1 Is valued because you get bonus XP and that is good. I also highly value the reroll token and the Enchanted Key. I wish the reroll tokens were account bound and I could move them to my main characters. I wouldn't mind being able to trade in the reroll tokens for anything of value as mentioned above. The bonus Astral Diamonds from rank 1 is nice but it would be better if the cap for refining said AD was raised or removed entirely. Access to the Moonstone Mask is cool but these days there is less of a reason to go to the Moonstone than in the past.

    Rank 2 is valued because the 5 healing potions are good but it would be nice if it was more like maybe 12 potions. Also I enjoy being able to teleport to the Moonstone Mask. It would be nice if I could also teleport to Protectors Enclave. I do believe that there should be more benefits for Rank 2.

    Rank 3 is valued because the bonus Hit Points is awesome! Can never get enough or too much HP. I do believe there should be more benefits for Rank 3

    Rank 4 is valued because Summoning a signpost is one of the best things about VIP. I love the signpost and it is a huge improvement to overall enjoyment of the game. Maybe moving the signpost ability to Rank 3 would be a good idea. Also getting another reroll token at rank 4 is very nice.

    Rank 5 is valued because the ability to invoke anywhere is wonderful and a huge time saver that adds to the overall enjoyment of the game. Having to always find a campfire to invoke was very tedious when I first started playing 4 years ago. Maybe this could be moved to rank 4 if you moved the signpost to rank 3. Also the bonus Astral Diamonds and additional items from invoking is valued. Again it would be nice if this also included an increase in the amount of AD you could refine per day. Also the items from invoking could be better.

    Rank 6 is valued because is one of the best ranks! The ability to summon a mailbox and send and receive mail is a huge quality of life improvement and one of the biggest reasons to get VIP. If you adjusted the ranks, as mentioned with the signpost and ability to invoke anywhere, then possibly moved this benefit to rank 5 would be a good idea. Being able to summon a Postal Portal is a huge time saver and keeps me engaged with my current activity without having to drop everything I'm doing just to switch to an instance with a mailbox or bug other players to summon the mailbox. It's been years since I had to do either but I still remember the annoyance of having to go to Protectors Enclave every time I needed a mailbox as a new player without this rank of VIP. The additional reroll at rank 6 is also valued. If anything I'd like there to be an additional reroll for each rank of VIP or at least every 2 or 3 ranks. You do get an additional reroll at ranks 1, 4, and 6 but then that's it. Why not have additional rerolls at rank 8, 10, and 12?

    Rank 7 is valued because of the Immunity to Injuries! This is a great benefit and saves you from having to constantly buy injury kits. I remember going through a tremendous amount of injury kits during Dragon Flight when I was a newer player. At that time Dragon Flight gear was the best and our guild ran Dragon Flight almost daily and often multiple times each day. This was before we had the addition of alliances to Strongholds and Dragon Flight was the best way to bring the guild together for a shared experience. Occasionally I would need an injury kit in a dungeon but not very often. Still Immunity to Injuries was a huge selling point for VIP Rank 7. In the past we could summon an anvil to salvage gear and that was a huge selling point of Rank 7 but with the change of it being the ability to Summon a Seal Trader this is less valued. You could definitely move the Seal Trader to a lower rank as it's not very useful and of little benefit since the summoned seal trader doesn't have access to all seals not does it have the ability to buy gear for other classes. If the Seal Trader did have access to all Seals in the game and the ability to buy gear for other classes this would be a huge improvement. The bonus Astral Diamonds at Rank 7 are nice as with the other ranks and if anything could be improved and if paired with an increase to the amount of AD you could refine it would be much better.

    Rank 8 is valued because of the ability to post to the Auction House without posting fees. This is a huge selling point for Rank 8 and the main reason why I got rank 8 VIP. I do however see the issue of players repeatedly listing and de-listing items. This however could be solved by imposing a restriction on the amount of time an item could be listed and de-listed. The reduction in Wondrous Bazaar costs is nice but would be better if it were more of a discount. Also the reduction in cost for rushing companions and restoring morale is good but would be better it it was more of a reduction.

    Rank 9 is valued because of the ability to summon a Profession Vendor. This is mostly valued for the ability to sell items but at this point you can sell items to the Seal Trader so this is less valuable than in the past. Still it is nice to be able to summon the vendor while in the Workshop and buy a profession item you may need. even if the items available for purchase is very limited. The increase in reduced cost for the Wondrous Bazaar is nice but again would be better if it was a greater reduction. Same goes for the reduction to rushing companion training and restoring morale.

    Rank 10 is valued very little for it gives next to nothing. It is nice to get a further reduction in the costs of the Wondrous Bazaar, rushing companions, and restoring morale. However there should be more benefits and there is little incentive for most players to reach rank 10 for it's benefits alone and is more of a stepping stone on the way to max rank.

    Rank 11 is valued very little as is rank 10 for it gives little benefit. I do value the increased discount for the Wondrous Bazaar but again it's more of a stepping stone on the way to rank 12 and even with the additional reduction for rushing companions and restoring morale rank 11 is underwhelming. It would be nice if both rank 10 and 11 included an increase in the amount of AD you could refine each day.

    Rank 12 is valued because of the ability to summon a Banking Portal. This is one of the best benefits and the main selling point for rank 12. Being able to summon a banking portal is a huge quality of life improvement and greatly adds to my enjoyment in game while keep me engaged in my current activity. The bank is the best way to share resources between characters and I love it! I only wish I could have more shared bank space. At rank 12 we reach the max in terms of VIP and the reduction to the costs of the Wondrous Bazaar, rushing companion training, and restoring morale. The reduced cost from the Wondrous Bazaar and restoring morale is nice but an additional reduction would be better. I think that at VIP rank 12 we should have rushing companion costs removed completely and have it be companions now train instantly. I would also like to see rank 12 give an increase to the amount of AD that can be refined each day. More reroll tokens at rank 12 would be nice too and more potions. Above it was purposed that the amount of Enchanted Keys would be reduced but I suggest that at rank 12 players should receive a 2nd enchanted key each day. Although maybe it could be given at Rank 15 or Rank 20.

    Part 1/2

    Edit: spacing and typos
    Post edited by burnahbros#7516 on
  • burnahbros#7516 burnahbros Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Part 2/2

    What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?

    1.) I would like to see the ability to do an account wide invoke. This means that when I invoke on 1 character all my characters would invoke automatically and receive the benefits from invoking.
    2.) have the cost of switching enchantments reduced or removed as a VIP benefit. I think this would be greatly received and a good incentive for players to get and keep VIP.
    3.) Another benefits from VIP could be 1 unbinding token per day or maybe per week or month if the player logs on consecutively. This token could change character bound items to account bound. As much as I would like have an unbinding token make items completely unbound I can see where this would create issues.
    4.) A reduction of the cost to upgrade companions in terms of tokens and AD. Or give players some tokens each day. This could be 1, 3, or 5 tokens per day and it could be based off the rank of VIP. Maybe even 10 tokens at max rank.
    5.) 1, 3, or 5 preservation wards per day depending on rank of VIP
    6.) A reduction of cost for the Tarmalune Trade Bar Merchant
    7.) A reduction in cost for the Vault of Piety
    8.) A reduction in the cost of using the Appearance interface. i.e. transmute cost and color change costs
    9.) A reduction to the cost of morale for rushing crafting tasks
    10.) A reduction to the cost of making Patronage Tokens
    11.) A reduction to the cost of items from the Seal Vendor
    12.) A reduction to the cost of items from the Profession Vendor
    13.) A weekly coupon given for logging in on consecutive days that gives a 50% discount off any item
    14.) A monthly Coalescent Ward awarded for logging in every day of the month

    Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?

    This is a problem for sure. I do not like this practice but at times I too am force to do it because otherwise I never make a sale. Previously I would just post items and be patient but I would always get all of my listed items returned after 5 days. Then I realized that as soon as I posted an item I was being undercut within minutes or even seconds. The only way to combat this is to join in but that can be so tedious and boring and take away from enjoying the game and having fun. If there was a time restriction on the time between listing and de-listing an item this would help. Or maybe once an item is listed it cannot be de-listed period. The item would have to stay on the Auction House for the duration of it's listing. I do not believe imposing a posting fee or removing the cost of posting fees from VIP would be a good thing and I would be very upset if I had to pay posting fees. I would rather posting fees be removed for all players than to have all players have to pay posting fees. That being said there should be some benefits and incentives for players to get VIP and not having to pay posting fees is one of the biggest incentives of getting VIP rank 8.

    Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:

    VIP Example
    Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.


    This is an interesting idea that I'm open to and if the rewards in the store are good then it could be an awesome change. I think that all items from lockboxes should be included in the store and could change with each lockboxes as the items in the lockbox change. Items that are rare drops could come at a higher cost such as companions, mounts, and artifacts.

    10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.

    This is a horrible idea and will be met with very negative feedback and all players will be very upset with the NERF of keys from VIP. This is the kind of change that will drive players away from the game. This type of change is the type of thing that gives Neverwinter a bad name and why many feel that the game is a cash grab to be brutally honest. I do not feel that way but these types of changes make me question why I stick up for the game constantly among friends and players I talk to.

    Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.

    Sounds good on paper but not sure how good it will be in practice. If this is coupled with less keys then I am against it. If you increase both the odds and the amount of keys then it could be good but maybe not. Sure I would love a better chance at a sweet Legendary mount but the odds will still be long and most likely I will get nothing of value and have less chances to get anything good. This will likely be the experience for the majority of the player base.

    A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000

    This is a great idea but 15% should be a base and it should go up to 100% for max VIP rank.

    Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires

    This very well could be the very best idea on this list and I 100% would love to be able to switch loudouts at my own descrestion.

    Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.

    I like this idea.

    Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.

    This is by far the worst idea on the list but I do think that the benefits should be adjusted to give new players more benefits at lower VIP ranks and also give old players and new players alike more benefits at higher ranks by adding more benefits and adding more ranks.

    Thank you to anyone who bothered to read these long comments
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,008 Arc User
    edited January 28

    Hey folks! Just finished doing a summary of pages 6-11 (Friday was Pages 1-5) which will help with the "overall summary" when the topic wraps up. You can also check out @oremonger#9999 's earlier recap of the first few pages of this thread for an overview of early thoughts.

    There's been several questions about what our purpose/intent is and the format we present a topic in to better guide the feedback. I don't want to derail this CDP topic but I do value the insight and we can look at evolving the CDP to improve it - we can even do a CDP on the CDP :lol:

    In regards to the change in topics, our plan was to go out with Rewards (I even had the forum post staged in a hidden section of the forums to move to this subforum last week) but we opted to provide more background/follow-up to the Stardock Lockbox issue and seized the opportunity to discuss VIP in general. We also knew the change in CDP topic schedule would be frustrating to some so we shortened this CDP to 1 week versus the 2-3 weeks a topic typically runs. Admittedly, I was a bit surprised (and it takes a lot to surprise me after so many years doing this) at the anger over the topic change, but it helped with the realization that internally we as a dev team/industry in general are used to having to pivot out of either necessity or opportunity. Our actions were a reflection of our internal experience and something we need to keep in mind going forward.

    I don't think it's the change in topic that angered us so much as the frivolity of the topic change and this is regarding something that most people consider very very low priority in the food chain. this is a topic that just shouldnt even be on the radar for the next year, especially after the comments in the stream about how the current roadmap was going to be a squeeze and we shouldn't expect mod 19 this year. then this... something that seems like a total waste of time and energy... it's that little of an issue. but the rewards topic is near and dear to ALL of our hearts. like if you had said we're putting off rewards for bugs fix I am pretty sure there would have been joy not anger. as players, our priority is a game that is fun to play, engages us, is balanced and rewards us appropriately. vip has very little to do with this.
    furthermore, the wording comes off very much in a way that was seeking to rob us of benefits we have already paid for. sometimes years in advance. that is ALWAYS going to incite anger in the player base. Especially when the original topic was something we were all looking very much to seeing changes in
    Post edited by thefiresidecat on
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • krzrsmskrzrsms Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited January 28
    ...
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited January 28
    @cwhitesidedev#9752 ,

    Here's the Currency Extrapolation:

    1 Zen = 750 AD = 5 Tramalune Bars = 1000 Gold
    1 Tramalune Bar = 150 AD
    1 Heroes Medallion = 6.66 Zen = 4,995 AD = 33.33 Tramalune Bars = 3.03 Arden Favor
    1 Ardent Favor = 2.2 Zen = 1,650 AD = 11 Tramalune Bars

    For example,

    Mark of Potency, Rank 5 = 100 Zen = 75,000 AD = 15 Heroes Medallion = 499.95 Tramalune Bars = 45.45 Ardent Coins

    So, with the Tramalune Store, the Vault of Piety and the Legacy Campaign Stores removed and going with the Zen Store, the Wondrous Bazaar and the "Super Store", players would have the following options:

    1. Spending 100 Zen in the Zen Store to purchase 1 Mark of Potency, Rank 5.
    2. Spending 75,000 AD in the Wondrous Bazaar to purchase 1 Mark of Potency, Rank 5.
    3. Spending 500 "Super Store" tokens (Tramalune Bars) to purchase 1 Mark of Potency, Rank 5.

    Another example,

    Coalescent Ward = 1000 Zen = 750,000 AD = 150 Heroes Medallion = 4999.5 Tramalune Bars = 454.5 Ardent Coins

    Last Example,

    Chultan Tiger = 2500 Zen = 1,875,000 AD = 375 Heroes Medallion = 12,498.75 Tramalune Bars = 1,136.25‬ Ardent Coins


    All the prices are comparable and consistent, across the board. All items would be BtA, with the exception of the Zen Store. Now, this doesn't take into consideration the Auction House, but it would help negate exorbitant price gouging and help Cryptic to regain control of the economy again.

    Just my 2p.

  • raiderone000raiderone000 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    The rate of free keys
    I do not like this idea much. I like getting one free key per day. Even though rewards are usually similar and weak.
    but I am getting something every day. And some folks are just unlucky! And now they would get less keys too.
    It's the same outcome, so no benefit to get less keys!!!

    Alternates to keys
    I wouldn't think of it as an Alternative to Keys, but an addition to keys. Especially if keys are cut in half aka 15 per month.
    So keys plus VIP points. Maybe even if give Keys in combination of 10 right away (every two weeks).

    Ranks
    I wouldn't remove Ranks entirely. Maybe increased benefits for being VIP for 3months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 year etc
    without break in VIP.

    Current Benefits
    Increased AD for no reason than more is better. The VIP page with travel, bank etc which makes day to day easier.
    Increased HP (same as above), Anywhere Invoke because without it is a hassle. Discounts at Trade Merchants (who doesn't
    like discounts). No Death Penalty needs to stay!

    New Benefits
    Increased benefits for Rank (if it remains in some fashion). Increased Stronghold Voucher gains and Increased Voucher
    turn in's at Mimic. Increased AD daily but higher than 115,000 (maybe 125,000). Upgrade percentage boost
    of 5% (Artifact, etc). Binding Location of Login to Stronghold or choice of location instead of last location.
    Another great VIP benefit would be if you could set your Map instance reload point to specific point in zone.

    Auction House
    I like the discounts but wouldn't be a deal breaker, if some were removed or changed...
  • deviltogoddeviltogod Member Posts: 4 Arc User

    Feedback Overview:

    To make VIP system better and to change the thought process of cryptic developers & architect

    Feedback Goal:

    VIP should reward veterans

    Feedback Functionality:

    Whenever cryptic is taking about new feature its mostly about removing stuffs, nerfing items and nerfing classes. For VIP, please change this thought process.

    Don't change or remove anything about current VIP for godsake. Keep it as it is now.

    Instead think positive about how to add stuffs and make it better than what they currently are. Below are my thoughts about making it better,
    1) Add more ranks to VIP (more than Rank 12) and provide more benefits like Rank 15 gives 125K RAD refinement/Day, Rank 18 gives 125K RAD refinement/Day etc., RAD is just a thought it can be anything. For eg: Rank 36 gives a legendary mount (3 years patron for VIP atleast worth that much benefit). I payed VIP for 5 years now and yet to get any mount from lockbox
    2) Increase the drop rate of lockbox if you like but dont make any change on keys. For eg: if current chance for lockbox is 0.1% then making it 3x 0.3% doesnt make much difference whereas you proposed to nerf daily keys by 50%. If not reveal us the chance of lockbox without hiding it so it will be open discussion
    3) Change the Auction house system that it provides items based on supply and demand. Then put VIP benefits on trade fee and posting fee

    Risks & Concerns

    1) Only risk is known secret that i can see is currently many players uses invoke bots and multiple logins to mis-use VIP. If you put a control over it i dont see any risk on it
  • arcticblitzarcticblitz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited January 28


    • The rate of free keys
      • We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
    I would be against any changes to the number of daily keys given, Any changes to the lockbox odd's must happen completely separately of any other mechanism to get key's ( i.e you can't up the odds and then double the price of key's in the zen store to compensate) it's these kind of tactics that have killed trust with the player base


    • Alternates to keys
      • How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
    I would be open to this as an option provided the values were reasonable and well aligned, Chris gave the example of buying a lockbox key with the currency and i like that suggestion as long as 1 daily currency = 1 Key. the items should all be useful towards progression, Wards (pres & Coal) , All Enchanting stones / marks of potency , companion upgrade tokens


    • Ranks
      • How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
    I'm rank 12 and have been for ages , I don't have any issue with getting rid of the ranks and giving everyone rank 12 equivalent


    • Current Benefits
      • Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
    For me it's
    1. Keys : AD earn
    2. Sign Post : it just speeds up everything :)
    3. Mail Box : timesaver, saves a trip back to main hubs
    4. Bank : Timersaver, saves a trip back to main hubs
    5. Invoking : Timersaver, saves a trip back to campfire


    • New Benefits
      • What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
    Overall i think VIP is in an okay place , Perhaps adding a guild bank access would be good and maybe the ability to collect up to 7 days worth of missed rewards keys ect would be nice.

    If you really wanted to take it up a notch as another poster suggested and I get that some people would find it controversial is a cash only VIP+ / Subscription which gives all the benefits of the current VIP program with extra goodies on top like Progression items / wards / 2x campaign currency , time gate removals ect. I think this could be acceptable way to bolster cash revenue without upsetting existing VIP member provided the current VIP program remains untouched /undiluted. From the comments i see a lot of people paying for VIP already, Personally I have only put cash into the game twice specifically for buying VIP, since then i've used the proceeds from selling off lock box loot to ( plus the occasional top ups from Random Q's ) to fund ongoing VIP

    PLay info
    Casual , log in most days play maybe an hour or 2 every 2 to 3 days , I've been playing since the game launched and have had VIP since it started. my Main is 23k-ish

    *edit to fix quotes and some missing bits
    Post edited by arcticblitz on
    Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
    Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger

    Guild Founder: -HunterS-
  • davenw#1761 davenw Member Posts: 1 New User
    Some of it might be off main topic but still important for me.

    Rerolls:
    -they should stay as it is 3x every day per character, if you remove them to "vip store" whole reroll idea will be dumped by players, unless you really REALLY work on chest rewards because getting mod 5 items is so lame. but i would still go with dont touch rerolls :)

    - i dont know if anyone even remember but there was a NPC in PE that was giving out 1 free key every day even non-vip players would be cool if he was giving free reroll token for everybody again so new players could get a hang of this system (npc Armario Clavus)

    Potions:
    -potions overall should be reworked, recenly ive done new player challange and at lvl +/-35 potions became useless they restore like 6k HP when player already have max hp at 50k+ and mobs attack like 3-5k each attack really hard to stay alive if you are newbie

    - buff them OR give us health stones instead like 10x per day per character (bound to character ofc)

    ---------------ZEN STORE---------------
    -about health stones current price is 500zen for 50x use, 1500zen for 200x use, i dont have statistics but i can guess nobody is buying them so good move reduce the price, 50xuse (100zen), 200x use (300zen) so somebody would acually buy them otherwise just remove them from zen store completely same with scrolls of life :)
    ---------------ZEN STORE---------------

    Lockbox key:
    DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, LEAVE 30x KEYS AS THEY ARE also as more people stated increasing droprates changes nothing 0.1% x 3 is still 0.3 rare as hell... leave it as it is!!!

    other things:
    - store idea is not bad give us like 1 coin per account every day and rewards like Legacy Campaign store but cut pricies ofc, for example
    (5 coins: Enchanting stone r5, mark of potency r5, 5x pres ward, 50k 50% bonus RAD, 5 companion tokens)
    (8 coins: Enchanting stone r6, mark of potency r6, stone of health 200x use)
    (10 coins: mark of potency r7, seals store discount 40%, zen store discount 30% any item exculuding vip ofc, legacy campaign currency equal to 5days of daily quests to help vips get boons faster, )
    overall dont give us too much tho, dont hurt economy more :)

    - bonus refined ad idea is good 15% is an acceptable number ;)

    - rank removal hmmm... in my opinion there should be 2 ranks now, RANK 1 = currently rank 12 bonuses, but RANK 2 add new things like vip-coin shop, bonus AD etc and make it upgradable by 1 purchase so when i buy vip for 1 month it is rank 1, then i can upgrade for another rank for 2000zen, and all months purchased with normal price after that will be rank 2. If you dont like this idea just remove all ranks and keep it only 1 rank

    invokes:
    this is off topic but for God sake im reporting this for over 3 years now, even got response once that it will be brought to attention on next developers meet up that was when we had jungles of chult module live...
    PLEASE UPDATE ARDENT FAVOR SHOP, 365 days of playing and only thing you can get is useless companion? PLEASE PLEASE
    im not asking for super cool rewards but at least adequate to state of game, maybe purple mount, better companions, experience boosters, anything please

    death penalty - injures
    - revive sickness time should be really lowered for vips to last like 2 minutes only instead of 4 or 5 i dont know, also where in game is revive sickness explained? i dont know how it works anymore huh

    seals idea
    - increase max weekly new seals for vip players by lets say 20% and also you should really think of increasing maximum seals to like 2400 if it doesnt takes extra programming ofc



    feedback summary, risks & concerns

    -Do not take anything from vip, just add a little bit of extras but not too much
    -Giving us too much might result breaking economy even more than it is broken now
    -Taking something away might result in bad PR and more people leaving game
    -Lockboxes are fine, its an addition to game so who wants to gamble is free to do, do not change % chances and do not take our keys


    Thanks to everyone who read this, you are good being :heart:
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,499 Arc User
    edited January 28

    @regenerde I read all posts- some twice. My idea of an optional subscription got 0 likes. I got it, they are bad, but we are not good either.
    I did not said that something must be taken, I said if we keep doing what we are doing=we keep getting what we are getting.
    .

    No, they do the cutting, so "we" stop with the spending... it's really that simple.

    Also instead of removing the ViP ranks "for new players", why not make the Neverember Recruitment event something to be paired with really good (50%) seasonal sales? New players would get a lot of extra goodies from just playing the game and probably buy some ViP time right from the start as well, which would anchor them in NWO and in time replenish/increase the playerbase.

    ViP is pretty much the only item left in the ZEN shop with an equal high value for new and vet. players, and while the base idea around here might be "Let's make ViP even better!", it starts to read like "How can we make ViP similar to all the other items we have in the store?".

    Here's something they could aim for when improving ViP:
    Rank 24, account-wide epic companion and mount.
    ...
    Rank 48, account- wide legendary mount.
    fill the ranks in between with perks that will actually lessen the grind, players will keep on buying it and it will keep them around even when the next new module might take a while to be released.

    Anyway, i'd like to see ViP changed into something that makes players say
    "Hey, i can't wait for reaching Rank xy for z!"
    instead of just saying
    "Yeah, ViP, ok, one month will do, maybe i get more when the new module is here."
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited January 28
    Can I just save everyone a bit of time, and chip in with this response to people complaining about VIP being less high up the issue list than other stuff.

    When you commit to doing something like the CDP as an organisation, sticking all the big issues at the top of the list is not always the way to go. Stuff needs to be addressed in manageable chunks with regard to time/resources.

    Of course Rewards et al are a bigger issue for us as players, but we just got past giving them a hell of a lot of work to do with with the Accessibility thread.

    Now we could have had the second CDP on Rewards, but if we had done that, the chances are that we would not get that CDP for quite some time. It is likely that different people work on these different areas, and the order that these CDPs come out means that everyone gets feedback and a To Do list rather than a smaller number of people getting a dump truck full of stuff to do while others sit waiting their turn.

    Putting a smaller issue in between two bigger ones means that work resulting from the process isn't an overbearing amount. It also means we get regular access to the devs and in all likelihood, a better chance of things getting done.

    Changes in schedule for stuff like this is almost inevitable.
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited January 28

    Can I just save everyone a bit of time, and chip in with this response to people complaining about VIP being less high up the issue list than other stuff.

    When you commit to doing something like the CDP as an organisation, sticking all the big issues at the top of the list is not always the way to go. Stuff needs to be addressed in manageable chunks with regard to time/resources.

    Of course Rewards et al are a bigger issue for us as players, but we just got past giving them a hell of a lot of work to do with with the Accessibility thread.

    Now we could have had the second CDP on Rewards, but if we had done that, the chances are that we would not get that CDP for quite some time. It is likely that different people work on these different areas, and the order that these CDPs come out means that everyone gets feedback and a To Do list rather than a smaller number of people getting a dump truck full of stuff to do while others sit waiting their turn.

    Putting a smaller issue in between two bigger ones means that work resulting from the process isn't an overbearing amount. It also means we get regular access to the devs and in all likelihood, a better chance of things getting done.

    Changes in schedule for stuff like this is almost inevitable.

    When Chris releases the 2020 Cadence, you're going to see that he's broken off chunks of it as groups. We industry peeps call those "Milestones." Milestones are Dev Companies saying "We expect to have this done, by this time." They're usually done in Quarters, unless you're in the overdrive mode that comes right before RD (Release Date.) I guarantee you that they already have a few of these Milestones sorted out, or have them fleshed out on paper. Yes, I believe Chris is THAT good.

    These starting CDPs are basically, "Hey, guys what do you think of us squeezing this in our Milestones?"

    It makes sense that the first one was Accessibility. Right now, the game has a better chance of pulling in new players, rather than bringing returning players back to the fold. For example, they got lucky with me. Had they not released Ravenloft, I doubt I would have come back. I haven't started on it yet (my iLvl is less than the recommended), but Avernus is not what I was expecting, from my experience with Tabletop. It wouldn't have drawn me back. But new players, aren't as critical as I am. I've been playing D&D since the early 80s and while I can tolerate a few changes, like game play, I draw the line with the Lore. That's what I'm here for: the D&D IP.

    The second one was VIP. They asked what they could change and quite frankly, people weren't happy with their ideas, so we said so. It also means Chris and Cryptic want to try something "new" so to speak to increase revenue. More income means more development time, more resources and more content. In my opinion, from experience in the industry, VIP is fine as it is right now, with just a couple of minor tweaks that will require development, but it's not time crushing, like a complete overhaul. It can wait for a 2020 Q4 milestone. I felt Rewards should be a priority, especially for older Dungeons, to reduce RLQ times and to give underscored players content WORTH running.

    My concept was fairly simple and neutral. You have a new store and a new currency (although, keeping Tram Bars is less overhead.) All the Older Dungeons would have the same loot table, players could save their Bars to buy stuff they wanted that's currently in the Zen Store, AH, etc, instead of getting frustrated by getting an Artifact or something that's worth nothing on the AH. Sure it would be a grind to get these items, but it gave you something to work for and it wasn't "a junk item." It also removes a lot of stuff that works, but just didn't make sense. We don't need Tram Bars, Heroic Medallions, Ardent Coins, Celestial Coins. It's just too much. Streamline all that and get it out of here.

    Just going from my math, per day:


    1200 Tram Bars for VIP, Rank 12. (100 per Rank)
    10 Tram Bars for doing all your Invoking.
    100 Tram Bars if you completed a Legacy Campaign.
    5-10 Tram Bars per Dungeon Run, unless you got a "Jackpot" in the RNG.

    Using one of my above examples, you could get a BtA Coal Ward in 4 days or a BtA Mark of Potency, Rank 5 in about 2.

    I think those are rewards players would like, I know I would and it gives Cryptic a base to work from, plus a little bit of breathing room to focus on stuff that really needs to be fixed.




This discussion has been closed.