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CDP Topic: VIP

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  • doktormock#6939 doktormock Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    hmmm. This is a tricky one simply because players have paid real money for VIP ranks so any changes should build on that investment and not remove any value. VIP members have invested in the game. And not all VIPs are pay to win either.

    Lockboxes. Definitely think these need to be reevaluated but not just for VIPs. This should be for all players. Personally I'd say less lockbox drops with better odds of a quality drop. It's completely ridiculous that you can pick up so many boxes that you will never get to open because it would cost a small fortune in real money. I've got hundreds of unopened boxes and I've just been playing for a year. I'm sure some veteran players will have thousands. I also think that improving the odds on quality drops from boxes will mean more key sales. I don't even use the enchanted key vouchers any more because the drop odds just make it a waste of real money. I would buy keys if there was any real chance of a good return.

    Lockbox keys. More not less for VIPs. If you are going to drop so many boxes then you have to increase the number of keys. I
    even think you should drop them in other parts of the game so that non VIPs can take advantage of that too. Players will always buy keys to gamble (yes gamble) on lockboxes so you're not really dropping your income that much. I also think VIPs should be able to claim keys at any time so if I miss a day I should be able to claim 2 keys the next day. I work for a living and also have home responsibilities. I can't always manage to play Neverwinter because real life gets in the way.

    Currency. I like the idea of the currency but not as a replacement to keys. Also don't make it another painful long term currency like trade bars and event currencies. But what to offer in the VIP shop? Something useful I reckon like companion upgrade tokens.

    Reward re-roll. I mean, does anyone actually use these? Are they really any use? I am building up a small mountain of them. Maybe turn them into a trade-able currency?

    Removal of VIP ranks. Not sure how I feel about this. When I started with VIP I liked the idea of going up in ranks. Being pleased when I hit a rank with a useful feature e.g. no injuries or call mailbox. However I would have been happier if I had received all bonuses from day one. Seems a bit like a slap to current top rank VIPs to just give new VIPs everything in one go :(

    To summarize, VIPs have paid real money for those perks. Don't devalue this and don't insult them with changes that are detrimental. VIP is hardly pay to win and will probably never be pay to win.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    hmmm. This is a tricky one simply because players have paid real money for VIP ranks so any changes should build on that investment and not remove any value. VIP members have invested in the game. And not all VIPs are pay to win either.

    Lockboxes. Definitely think these need to be reevaluated but not just for VIPs. This should be for all players. Personally I'd say less lockbox drops with better odds of a quality drop. It's completely ridiculous that you can pick up so many boxes that you will never get to open because it would cost a small fortune in real money. I've got hundreds of unopened boxes and I've just been playing for a year. I'm sure some veteran players will have thousands. I also think that improving the odds on quality drops from boxes will mean more key sales. I don't even use the enchanted key vouchers any more because the drop odds just make it a waste of real money. I would buy keys if there was any real chance of a good return.

    Lockbox keys. More not less for VIPs. If you are going to drop so many boxes then you have to increase the number of keys. I
    even think you should drop them in other parts of the game so that non VIPs can take advantage of that too. Players will always buy keys to gamble (yes gamble) on lockboxes so you're not really dropping your income that much. I also think VIPs should be able to claim keys at any time so if I miss a day I should be able to claim 2 keys the next day. I work for a living and also have home responsibilities. I can't always manage to play Neverwinter because real life gets in the way.

    Currency. I like the idea of the currency but not as a replacement to keys. Also don't make it another painful long term currency like trade bars and event currencies. But what to offer in the VIP shop? Something useful I reckon like companion upgrade tokens.

    Reward re-roll. I mean, does anyone actually use these? Are they really any use? I am building up a small mountain of them. Maybe turn them into a trade-able currency?

    Removal of VIP ranks. Not sure how I feel about this. When I started with VIP I liked the idea of going up in ranks. Being pleased when I hit a rank with a useful feature e.g. no injuries or call mailbox. However I would have been happier if I had received all bonuses from day one. Seems a bit like a slap to current top rank VIPs to just give new VIPs everything in one go :(

    To summarize, VIPs have paid real money for those perks. Don't devalue this and don't insult them with changes that are detrimental. VIP is hardly pay to win and will probably never be pay to win.


    if you aren't rerolling your chests you're missing out. wouldn't bother (Although I always do) in low level dungeons but anything fbi up is totally worth it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited January 2020


    Lockboxes. Definitely think these need to be reevaluated but not just for VIPs. This should be for all players. Personally I'd say less lockbox drops with better odds of a quality drop. It's completely ridiculous that you can pick up so many boxes that you will never get to open because it would cost a small fortune in real money. I've got hundreds of unopened boxes and I've just been playing for a year. I'm sure some veteran players will have thousands. I also think that improving the odds on quality drops from boxes will mean more key sales. I don't even use the enchanted key vouchers any more because the drop odds just make it a waste of real money. I would buy keys if there was any real chance of a good return.

    The game drops a lot less lockbox than before already and I mean by a lot. I used to get 2 to 3 stack of 999 per mod. In the recent mods, I get about 600 per mod. I pick up everything.


    Reward re-roll. I mean, does anyone actually use these? Are they really any use? I am building up a small mountain of them. Maybe turn them into a trade-able currency?

    This reward re-roll is a big deal. It is about getting good loot or garbage loot.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    The rank VIP system in my eyes is a complete scam. It forces you to buy months worth of VIP at once in the event you quickly lose interest in the game but have deposited enough money into the game and thereby in the process, limiting choice for passionate players that would like to continue on playing with a VIP but do not want to purchase in bulk. In other words, anything that limits choice is there for profit (usually) and if you look at other games that profit from micro transactions like a free to play game dwells in, you can see a trend of scheming players to buy in bulk.

    VIP should give all the benefits because everyone paid for that value. For example, If i am VIP rank 11 and I buy 1 month's VIP, i still pay the same amount as someone who is VIP rank 0 and paid 1 month's VIP. This progression nonsense is beyond me. Progression that involves money is straight up annoyance and just doesn't last long in the west. Oh in the name of progression, i can buy that in 1minute. What took a player months of grind to reach rank 12, another can just straight up pay to get rank 12. Wow, so much for progression. The counter argument is that you can do that with anything in the game through ZAX, but not literally. You can't buy Lion heart on AH, you can't buy gear that you need to grind in ME's and campaigns. Lastly, even if you paid to jump to BiS, where are you going to buy skill?

    There is a fine line between pay to progress and to pay to win. I believe VIP system is more the right side of it. So far as so, new players require utilities like Mail box, signpost and bank the most. They shouldn't have to purchase in bulk for a game they are not sure if they will still be interested the next month.
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    I do not agree or like the fact that you (Cryptic) felt the need to "Seed topics for the first several discussions". Is this a way to avoid discussing areas that you (Cryptic) are not comfortable with? We can discuss Happy, Shiny all day, but it does nothing to address the Bitter, Ugly that has driven many in the community away. Yes, these topics will be painful and heated but they deserve to be discussed first not 8 months from now.

    I implore you (Cryptic), Do not delay in putting topics up for a vote. At this point I would even settle for you picking 5-10 topics and asking us to put them in the order we find most important. This needed to happen from the beginning so that we can get past all of the trust issues and anger that many in the community have towards Cryptic. To do anything less makes me think that we are being placated, handled and steered into topics that are less messy to discuss or worse already decided upon and in the development queue.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that the topics were seeded in accordance with their roadmap for the year.

    We, the players, sit back and see one path. Fix bugs & balance issues. Make us happy.

    The company on the hand has to sit back and figure out how to fix bugs, balance classes, create more monetization opportunities to bring in more revenue, balance the vet/noob gap, salvage pvp, introduce new events, etc etc.

    Some people will sit back and say "why are we talking about VIP", "low hanging fruit", etc. But to the company the big picture comprises all these pieces together.

    A vote would be nice but I imagine, if they put up 5 topics to a vote, it's still likely to be topics that will help keep them on the path according to their plans.

    We get rewards up next. People will be thrilled to go over that.

    Then they have PVP lined up and I fully expect to see the usual amount of vitriol in there from the PVP haters that will fill the CDP with comments like "just remove it". To these players, PVP CDPs are a waste of time. But for all we know, in the background the devs are working out a roadmap to split out PVP, make overall improvements, create more maps, etc (pipe dreams I know).

    You can't please everyone at the same time so a rotation based off of their roadmap doesn't bother me at all.

    Edited to give proper quote attribution. Apologies to fabricant and ore. I humbly offer my head on a platter if anyone was insulted. Just a quick, clean cut.
    Post edited by ecrana#2080 on
  • shadrakt2shadrakt2 Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    Ranks: get rid of them. It can be just VIP or no VIP

    Most valued current benefits: signpost, invoke anywhere, mailbox, immunity to injury, no AH posting fee, and of course daily goodies
    People manipulating the AH is a real bummer, but penalizing 100% of users for the crimes of 1% is a MUCH bigger bummer. Please don’t do that.

    I like the idea of VIP currency, even more so if it were to replace the lockbox and key model. The latter has been a source of criticism and concern for a long time, not only in Neverwinter. Changing it would do a great deal for transparency.

    I’m against changing loadouts away from campfire. It has been created that way for a purpose, we’re supposed to commit to a loadout going into a boss fight. Or maybe make it impossible to change loadouts in combat, I guess that would work too
  • trialbyfire001trialbyfire001 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    Hi Chris,
    I’m not going to try and pick apart little details that can easily be tweaked but will give an overall “my 2 cents”

    I really like the fact that vip gives some sort of VIP currency and with said currency you buy whatever you need. This makes vip very customizable plus allows ARC to add or remove things from the store therefore making you much more flexible in dealing with any growing pains MMOs get

    Lockbox changes don’t really have anything to do with vip. Sure we get 30 keys a month but you can move key purchases into the vip store to compensate and you can make any value you want on anything.

    I really believe something MUST be done with the ah tradehouse. People are posting 400 of an item just to lock out the auction of that item (yes users can change search criteria but I don’t think everybody knows how to do this) right now vip removes posting fees and having zero posting fees allows users to control said market as it costs them nothing to do this currently they only have something to gain, by introducing something that forces them to pay to control said market it would limit the 400 posts from one person as now they may not gain from manipulating said market.

    The rest of vip is just easier experience playing NW, take it or leave it or even move it into store. (Want 30 days of no injuries? Sure buy it in the vip store) as an example.

    I’m not a fan of ranks, it should just be vip is on or off. You pay your $15 a month or whatever it costs to have it and you now gain the currency to buy from the vip store.

    I am also not a fan of gain x Currency a day. I understand you want people to log into your game everyday (even if it’s just to collect currency or get your key) People have lives we go on vacation etc. Sometimes it’s just not feasible to log into the game everyday, I would love some way to get around this (maybe the entire months vip drops on the first of every month?) but again that’s a wish and I doubt will ever happen.

    Overall creating a store when arc can customize vip “drops” gives the impression that as a vip member your buying “bonus” currency and not a specific item makes you much more flexible and also less backlash then removing an actual “perk” of vip.

    I would love to see rerolls account bound or being able to put it in the shared bank like we do ad/companion tokens. I’m sure many people have reroll tokens on “dead” characters and would love to bring it over to their mains or alts.

    Thanks for your time.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    I do not agree or like the fact that you (Cryptic) felt the need to "Seed topics for the first several discussions". Is this a way to avoid discussing areas that you (Cryptic) are not comfortable with? We can discuss Happy, Shiny all day, but it does nothing to address the Bitter, Ugly that has driven many in the community away. Yes, these topics will be painful and heated but they deserve to be discussed first not 8 months from now.

    I implore you (Cryptic), Do not delay in putting topics up for a vote. At this point I would even settle for you picking 5-10 topics and asking us to put them in the order we find most important. This needed to happen from the beginning so that we can get past all of the trust issues and anger that many in the community have towards Cryptic. To do anything less makes me think that we are being placated, handled and steered into topics that are less messy to discuss or worse already decided upon and in the development queue.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that the topics were seeded in accordance with their roadmap for the year.

    We, the players, sit back and see one path. Fix bugs & balance issues. Make us happy.

    The company on the hand has to sit back and figure out how to fix bugs, balance classes, create more monetization opportunities to bring in more revenue, balance the vet/noob gap, salvage pvp, introduce new events, etc etc.

    Some people will sit back and say "why are we talking about VIP", "low hanging fruit", etc. But to the company the big picture comprises all these pieces together.

    A vote would be nice but I imagine, if they put up 5 topics to a vote, it's still likely to be topics that will help keep them on the path according to their plans.

    We get rewards up next. People will be thrilled to go over that.

    Then they have PVP lined up and I fully expect to see the usual amount of vitriol in there from the PVP haters that will fill the CDP with comments like "just remove it". To these players, PVP CDPs are a waste of time. But for all we know, in the background the devs are working out a roadmap to split out PVP, make overall improvements, create more maps, etc (pipe dreams I know).

    You can't please everyone at the same time so a rotation based off of their roadmap doesn't bother me at all.
    that quote you have from @thefabricant doesn't sound like the voice of the fabricant to me. you sure you got that quote right???
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    shadrakt2 said:

    Ranks: get rid of them. It can be just VIP or no VIP



    Most valued current benefits: signpost, invoke anywhere, mailbox, immunity to injury, no AH posting fee, and of course daily goodies

    People manipulating the AH is a real bummer, but penalizing 100% of users for the crimes of 1% is a MUCH bigger bummer. Please don’t do that.

    If it is about AH undercut issue (which I don't really consider an issue but I am not going to argue that), introducing cancellation fee will have the effect without removing no AH posting fee. i.e. if you cancel an AH transaction, you need to pay an cancellation fee. If you already paid a posting fee, your cancellation fee is 0.
    shadrakt2 said:


    I like the idea of VIP currency, even more so if it were to replace the lockbox and key model. The latter has been a source of criticism and concern for a long time, not only in Neverwinter. Changing it would do a great deal for transparency.

    The VIP currency can be done by using lockbox key itself as the currency. We don't need to give up lockbox key to have a "VIP store".
    shadrakt2 said:


    I’m against changing loadouts away from campfire. It has been created that way for a purpose, we’re supposed to commit to a loadout going into a boss fight. Or maybe make it impossible to change loadouts in combat, I guess that would work too

    I believe you cannot change loadout in combat right now anyway. That is if you are standing on the camp fire and fight, you cannot change loadout. Also, when you have cooldown in encounter, etc, you cannot change loadout.

    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User

    as for the cdp topics.

    perhaps the simple answer is to simply run two cdp's at a time. one topic freely chosen by players, one topic selected by the devs.

    this lets players feel more in control, less like they're being 'steered', and it lets the devs feel more in control and better able to take advantage of opportunities to respond to things with a cdp topic at the same time.

    I think we need a CDP topic for discussing CDP. :)
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    shadrakt2 said:

    Ranks: get rid of them. It can be just VIP or no VIP



    Most valued current benefits: signpost, invoke anywhere, mailbox, immunity to injury, no AH posting fee, and of course daily goodies

    People manipulating the AH is a real bummer, but penalizing 100% of users for the crimes of 1% is a MUCH bigger bummer. Please don’t do that.

    If it is about AH undercut issue (which I don't really consider an issue but I am not going to argue that), introducing cancellation fee will have the effect without removing no AH posting fee. i.e. if you cancel an AH transaction, you need to pay an cancellation fee. If you already paid a posting fee, your cancellation fee is 0.
    shadrakt2 said:


    I like the idea of VIP currency, even more so if it were to replace the lockbox and key model. The latter has been a source of criticism and concern for a long time, not only in Neverwinter. Changing it would do a great deal for transparency.

    The VIP currency can be done by using lockbox key itself as the currency. We don't need to give up lockbox key to have a "VIP store".
    shadrakt2 said:


    I’m against changing loadouts away from campfire. It has been created that way for a purpose, we’re supposed to commit to a loadout going into a boss fight. Or maybe make it impossible to change loadouts in combat, I guess that would work too

    I believe you cannot change loadout in combat right now anyway. That is if you are standing on the camp fire and fight, you cannot change loadout. Also, when you have cooldown in encounter, etc, you cannot change loadout.

    cancellation fees are bad imo. who cares if people undercut? any kind of control hurts the poorer players worse than the moneied players. if there is a cancellation fee an undercutter will just bring out item 2 to undercut. I don't think the programming is solid enough in the ah to account for if you paid one fee or other other. the more t hey do to the ah unless htey tear it down and start from scratch, the more the odds of breaking it and causing more bugs and more delays. undercutting leads to a healthy economy. it is true there are a few players that list like 400 things at once. this is something I also don't see a solution for as the people doing this have usually more than 10 accounts. if you limit how many they can post they're just going to ship stuff to their other accounts and do the same thing and you just won't know its the same person with 400 things posted. the ah is just something people like to whine about imo. nothing wrong with it. adapt. find the niche that works for you. if the person has 400 things posted just undercut him by a penny and keep doing it til he gets bored.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    shadrakt2 said:

    Ranks: get rid of them. It can be just VIP or no VIP



    Most valued current benefits: signpost, invoke anywhere, mailbox, immunity to injury, no AH posting fee, and of course daily goodies

    People manipulating the AH is a real bummer, but penalizing 100% of users for the crimes of 1% is a MUCH bigger bummer. Please don’t do that.

    If it is about AH undercut issue (which I don't really consider an issue but I am not going to argue that), introducing cancellation fee will have the effect without removing no AH posting fee. i.e. if you cancel an AH transaction, you need to pay an cancellation fee. If you already paid a posting fee, your cancellation fee is 0.
    shadrakt2 said:


    I like the idea of VIP currency, even more so if it were to replace the lockbox and key model. The latter has been a source of criticism and concern for a long time, not only in Neverwinter. Changing it would do a great deal for transparency.

    The VIP currency can be done by using lockbox key itself as the currency. We don't need to give up lockbox key to have a "VIP store".
    shadrakt2 said:


    I’m against changing loadouts away from campfire. It has been created that way for a purpose, we’re supposed to commit to a loadout going into a boss fight. Or maybe make it impossible to change loadouts in combat, I guess that would work too

    I believe you cannot change loadout in combat right now anyway. That is if you are standing on the camp fire and fight, you cannot change loadout. Also, when you have cooldown in encounter, etc, you cannot change loadout.

    cancellation fees are bad imo. who cares if people undercut? any kind of control hurts the poorer players worse than the moneied players. if there is a cancellation fee an undercutter will just bring out item 2 to undercut. I don't think the programming is solid enough in the ah to account for if you paid one fee or other other. the more t hey do to the ah unless htey tear it down and start from scratch, the more the odds of breaking it and causing more bugs and more delays. undercutting leads to a healthy economy. it is true there are a few players that list like 400 things at once. this is something I also don't see a solution for as the people doing this have usually more than 10 accounts. if you limit how many they can post they're just going to ship stuff to their other accounts and do the same thing and you just won't know its the same person with 400 things posted. the ah is just something people like to whine about imo. nothing wrong with it. adapt. find the niche that works for you. if the person has 400 things posted just undercut him by a penny and keep doing it til he gets bored.
    Right now, each character can post 40. So, if you have 10 characters, you can post 400. No, I don't want them to add an account limit.

    For your 10 accounts situation, unless someone pays VIP for 10 accounts, one will need to pay the posting fee.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    shadrakt2 said:

    Ranks: get rid of them. It can be just VIP or no VIP



    Most valued current benefits: signpost, invoke anywhere, mailbox, immunity to injury, no AH posting fee, and of course daily goodies

    People manipulating the AH is a real bummer, but penalizing 100% of users for the crimes of 1% is a MUCH bigger bummer. Please don’t do that.

    If it is about AH undercut issue (which I don't really consider an issue but I am not going to argue that), introducing cancellation fee will have the effect without removing no AH posting fee. i.e. if you cancel an AH transaction, you need to pay an cancellation fee. If you already paid a posting fee, your cancellation fee is 0.
    shadrakt2 said:


    I like the idea of VIP currency, even more so if it were to replace the lockbox and key model. The latter has been a source of criticism and concern for a long time, not only in Neverwinter. Changing it would do a great deal for transparency.

    The VIP currency can be done by using lockbox key itself as the currency. We don't need to give up lockbox key to have a "VIP store".
    shadrakt2 said:


    I’m against changing loadouts away from campfire. It has been created that way for a purpose, we’re supposed to commit to a loadout going into a boss fight. Or maybe make it impossible to change loadouts in combat, I guess that would work too

    I believe you cannot change loadout in combat right now anyway. That is if you are standing on the camp fire and fight, you cannot change loadout. Also, when you have cooldown in encounter, etc, you cannot change loadout.

    cancellation fees are bad imo. who cares if people undercut? any kind of control hurts the poorer players worse than the moneied players. if there is a cancellation fee an undercutter will just bring out item 2 to undercut. I don't think the programming is solid enough in the ah to account for if you paid one fee or other other. the more t hey do to the ah unless htey tear it down and start from scratch, the more the odds of breaking it and causing more bugs and more delays. undercutting leads to a healthy economy. it is true there are a few players that list like 400 things at once. this is something I also don't see a solution for as the people doing this have usually more than 10 accounts. if you limit how many they can post they're just going to ship stuff to their other accounts and do the same thing and you just won't know its the same person with 400 things posted. the ah is just something people like to whine about imo. nothing wrong with it. adapt. find the niche that works for you. if the person has 400 things posted just undercut him by a penny and keep doing it til he gets bored.
    Right now, each character can post 40. So, if you have 10 characters, you can post 400. No, I don't want them to add an account limit.

    For your 10 accounts situation, unless someone pays VIP for 10 accounts, one will need to pay the posting fee.
    the people I know with ten accounts have vip on all. they are rich hamsters. they pay the fee once on an account to sell something that will give them enough to buy vip then boom they are set to sell. the point is all these ideas of trying to control this or that behaviour with the ah are only going to hurt the little guy. just get rid of the posting fee for everyone and leave it at that. patience is also an option with undercutters. just wait for their item to sell if it's really an indemand item. if it's not then odds are the price is just finding it's place where the buyers are willing to pay. undercutting helps buyers. it's not bad.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User

    Regarding the AH and its manipulation:
    What if players were giving an option to block/ignore AH abusers? If we, as AH customers, identify someone who we do not want to trade with, we can simply right click their account name in the AH listings and ignore that account.

    Their auctions no longer show up. We wont give them any more AD.

    However, this can cause issues with auction listings if said ignored player is deep in a market.

    Well, the current AH system appears to be busy already (as sometime, you cannot post it), adding that means each AH search will be even more expensive.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Regarding the AH and its manipulation:
    What if players were giving an option to block/ignore AH abusers? If we, as AH customers, identify someone who we do not want to trade with, we can simply right click their account name in the AH listings and ignore that account.

    Their auctions no longer show up. We wont give them any more AD.

    However, this can cause issues with auction listings if said ignored player is deep in a market.

    I like this. I think this would be a very good answer
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Regarding the AH and its manipulation:
    What if players were giving an option to block/ignore AH abusers? If we, as AH customers, identify someone who we do not want to trade with, we can simply right click their account name in the AH listings and ignore that account.

    Their auctions no longer show up. We wont give them any more AD.

    However, this can cause issues with auction listings if said ignored player is deep in a market.

    Well, the current AH system appears to be busy already (as sometime, you cannot post it), adding that means each AH search will be even more expensive.
    I doubt it would be a heavily used feature but for those that are truly irritated by it it gives them an option. bolene search would also work. if you could just do a search for say +dom -jerkheaddude boom you're good.
  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 253 Cryptic Developer

    I think it's great we are having these conversations but Gemin is right, the topic of class balance, combat fluidity and char build are what people care about more than anything else, and I honestly believe had such drastically changed not been to those 3 fundamentals Chris wouldn't be here trying to turn this game around. Glad he is here now wish he got here before the mod 16 abomination was foisted on us. To me it would make sense to get the most important aspects out the way, the thing that matters most people. These are the topics that should be the basis of the discussion and then branch out from there with the fluffy stuff.



    We discussed accessibility in the last CDP and some good iideas were shared but it's hard to get excited about these topics when the overriding question is,. Great but what does that mean in terms of the important stuff, will it be fun againm



    PvP next for example .... It's hardly going to ever be engaging with encounter cool downs as they are and running around with at wills until somebody who isn't on cool down obliterated you with their encounters.

    The conversation is a lot more meaningful when we know what PvP will look like in terms of combat fluidity.



    It does seem a bit hamster about face. ☺️

    Hi Duckie,

    Thanks for your comment. I would just like to point out (outside of VIP, just generally) that members of the community have very different opinions on what is most important. I always feel a little bit anxious when i see folks talking absolutely on behalf of others. This isn't just about your post but for everyone who is part of the CDP in general. Again thanks for your contribution and thoughts.

    Chris
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    I do not agree or like the fact that you (Cryptic) felt the need to "Seed topics for the first several discussions". Is this a way to avoid discussing areas that you (Cryptic) are not comfortable with? We can discuss Happy, Shiny all day, but it does nothing to address the Bitter, Ugly that has driven many in the community away. Yes, these topics will be painful and heated but they deserve to be discussed first not 8 months from now.

    I implore you (Cryptic), Do not delay in putting topics up for a vote. At this point I would even settle for you picking 5-10 topics and asking us to put them in the order we find most important. This needed to happen from the beginning so that we can get past all of the trust issues and anger that many in the community have towards Cryptic. To do anything less makes me think that we are being placated, handled and steered into topics that are less messy to discuss or worse already decided upon and in the development queue.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that the topics were seeded in accordance with their roadmap for the year.

    We, the players, sit back and see one path. Fix bugs & balance issues. Make us happy.

    The company on the hand has to sit back and figure out how to fix bugs, balance classes, create more monetization opportunities to bring in more revenue, balance the vet/noob gap, salvage pvp, introduce new events, etc etc.

    Some people will sit back and say "why are we talking about VIP", "low hanging fruit", etc. But to the company the big picture comprises all these pieces together.

    A vote would be nice but I imagine, if they put up 5 topics to a vote, it's still likely to be topics that will help keep them on the path according to their plans.

    We get rewards up next. People will be thrilled to go over that.

    Then they have PVP lined up and I fully expect to see the usual amount of vitriol in there from the PVP haters that will fill the CDP with comments like "just remove it". To these players, PVP CDPs are a waste of time. But for all we know, in the background the devs are working out a roadmap to split out PVP, make overall improvements, create more maps, etc (pipe dreams I know).

    You can't please everyone at the same time so a rotation based off of their roadmap doesn't bother me at all.
    Not sure where you got that quote from, but it wasn't me.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User

    I do not agree or like the fact that you (Cryptic) felt the need to "Seed topics for the first several discussions". Is this a way to avoid discussing areas that you (Cryptic) are not comfortable with? We can discuss Happy, Shiny all day, but it does nothing to address the Bitter, Ugly that has driven many in the community away. Yes, these topics will be painful and heated but they deserve to be discussed first not 8 months from now.

    I implore you (Cryptic), Do not delay in putting topics up for a vote. At this point I would even settle for you picking 5-10 topics and asking us to put them in the order we find most important. This needed to happen from the beginning so that we can get past all of the trust issues and anger that many in the community have towards Cryptic. To do anything less makes me think that we are being placated, handled and steered into topics that are less messy to discuss or worse already decided upon and in the development queue.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that the topics were seeded in accordance with their roadmap for the year.

    We, the players, sit back and see one path. Fix bugs & balance issues. Make us happy.

    The company on the hand has to sit back and figure out how to fix bugs, balance classes, create more monetization opportunities to bring in more revenue, balance the vet/noob gap, salvage pvp, introduce new events, etc etc.

    Some people will sit back and say "why are we talking about VIP", "low hanging fruit", etc. But to the company the big picture comprises all these pieces together.

    A vote would be nice but I imagine, if they put up 5 topics to a vote, it's still likely to be topics that will help keep them on the path according to their plans.

    We get rewards up next. People will be thrilled to go over that.

    Then they have PVP lined up and I fully expect to see the usual amount of vitriol in there from the PVP haters that will fill the CDP with comments like "just remove it". To these players, PVP CDPs are a waste of time. But for all we know, in the background the devs are working out a roadmap to split out PVP, make overall improvements, create more maps, etc (pipe dreams I know).

    You can't please everyone at the same time so a rotation based off of their roadmap doesn't bother me at all.
    That quote was oremonger's.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 253 Cryptic Developer

    Can I just save everyone a bit of time, and chip in with this response to people complaining about VIP being less high up the issue list than other stuff.

    When you commit to doing something like the CDP as an organisation, sticking all the big issues at the top of the list is not always the way to go. Stuff needs to be addressed in manageable chunks with regard to time/resources.

    Of course Rewards et al are a bigger issue for us as players, but we just got past giving them a hell of a lot of work to do with with the Accessibility thread.

    Now we could have had the second CDP on Rewards, but if we had done that, the chances are that we would not get that CDP for quite some time. It is likely that different people work on these different areas, and the order that these CDPs come out means that everyone gets feedback and a To Do list rather than a smaller number of people getting a dump truck full of stuff to do while others sit waiting their turn.

    Putting a smaller issue in between two bigger ones means that work resulting from the process isn't an overbearing amount. It also means we get regular access to the devs and in all likelihood, a better chance of things getting done.

    Changes in schedule for stuff like this is almost inevitable.

    Thanks Mordekai for calling this out. I/we appreciate it. I think the CDP is working well but understanding like you have displayed will take a little bit more time. Again it is all about trust and trust is earned. So it is natural for some to be very skeptical. It does however impact the flow of the CDP work. Looking forward to this improving over time.

    Chris
  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 253 Cryptic Developer
    Hi All,

    A number of us on the team are completely up to date. All of the ideas we have also been discussing have been discussed here and more!

    Again thanks so much for your input and the time you have spent contributing to this CDP. The information and ideas have been super useful. Frankly it has been so good that we could jump to the conclusion phase now but I think it is still important to hear what everyone's three favorite ideas are from this CDP. A simple concise 1,2,3 is fine and feel free to continue discussion on other CDP members posts as they relate to the CDP.

    Thanks

    Chris
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    this topic is very much of interest even though it's something that should just be left alone imo..

    because the fall out from this could be devastating and the player base is already very low. and I do want to continue playing this game.

    I care, and I am vocal because the proposals as of the first post could very much hurt this game. I see you looking for cheerleaders and apparently ignoring the voices of doom for being "hyperbolic" instead of listening to those voices. we're "hyperbolic" because we've been here thru it all before. we've seen this kind of thing happen and we've seen the fall out. in all honesty, I just want to help. this really is a mine field you've opened. if you think me and Oremonger are vocal at least we're polite. (mostly lol) the anger you'll get from changing a pay service is pretty amazing.

    (and I personally haven't been banging on about a vote although I agree I would like one. because i think it would show you what is and isn't important to your consumer base)

    and please if you want to turn things around and gain our trust do be upfront. this has to be about the money. because it's not something that I've heard anyone complain about other than wanting more ranks. I'd have much preferred a thread, what could we do that you would support thru cash transactions.

    I can't speak for oremonger but for me I'm vocal because I really really care and I really don't want this game to lose more players and lose more trust. i'm really worried.
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User

    Feedback Overview

    leave VIP as it is now (maybe with minor modification) and offer a selection of additional perks as new package (VIP+)

    Feedback Goal

    It seems, that many of the proposed changes to VIP are not well perceived by most of the players.
    This likely has historic reasons (the "need for change" was mostly used to "cover up" massive devaluation of services).
    For this reason large changes to current VIP functionality are a high risk option.

    On the other hand, it is important for the long term sustainability of the game to increase revenue.
    Some of the new ideas discussed in the introductory post to this thread and by several players seem to have the potential, to attract new paying customers.

    Why not combine both concerns?

    Leave current VIP mostly as it is now, and introduce a new type of VIP: VIP+

    Feedback Functionality

    VIP+ would be an extra package, atop of VIP, with its own pricetag.

    VIP+ could focus on certain player types, such as players in guilds and/or players with multiple characters.
    If VIP+ targets a (sufficiently large) subgroup of players, it would be logical to have it as a separate service.

    Depending on the targeted group, VIP+ could include several of the proposals mentioned in this thread, such as
    - remote access to guild bank and stronghold mimics (target: guildies)
    - switching loadouts everywhere, except in instances with role requirements (target: all players)
    - allow free removal of enchantments from gear at no gold cost (target: altoholics)
    - for the time of VIP+ turn all "bind to char" items into "bind to account", so that they can be swapped between characters (target: alcoholics)
    - one or two additional load outs on every character - during the duration of VIP+ (target: all players)
    - etc. etc.

    All of the above are in the "convenience" category.
    Other items could be added to make the package more attractive, such as

    - for every month of VIP+ allow the player to purchase one item from the ZEN store (companion, bank slots, loadout, etc,) as "claimable for every character on the account" (at a higher price, say three times the price of the single item). Such a purchase would work similar to mounts purchased in the ZEN store

    Risks & Concerns

    The target group for VIP+ might be too small, so that the development of an extra VIP+ package might not be economically feasible.
    Depending on the additional services offered, VIP+ might be perceived as a move towards "pay-to-win" or just a new money-grab.


  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    Hi All,

    A number of us on the team are completely up to date. All of the ideas we have also been discussing have been discussed here and more!

    Again thanks so much for your input and the time you have spent contributing to this CDP. The information and ideas have been super useful. Frankly it has been so good that we could jump to the conclusion phase now but I think it is still important to hear what everyone's three favorite ideas are from this CDP. A simple concise 1,2,3 is fine and feel free to continue discussion on other CDP members posts as they relate to the CDP.

    Thanks

    Chris

    I will pick 3 from my own list (in page 5).

    0. Don't touch lockbox key. (not exactly an idea).

    1. allow loadout change away from camp fire. Not allow during combat (and I believe it is how it is implemented currently).

    2. allow lockbox key to be picked up without login everyday. May be limit that to login at least once per week. That is the game will only hold up to 7 keys for you to pick up. If you login the 10th day, you can only pick up 7. If these players do not login, it is not a lose to Cryptic. If they just login/logout and do nothing, it is wasting your resource. In addition, your weekend only warrior can remove a reason blocking them to buy VIP.

    3. VIP store and use lockbox key and/or re-roll token as the currency to buy stuff from it. The items lockbox key or re-roll token can buy should be different.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
This discussion has been closed.