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CDP Topic: VIP

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  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,939 Arc User
    krailov said:

    I would argue for a cash-only VIP, and an astral diamond NSF (Neverwinter Support Fund).

    ZEN is not created in game, it is exchanged for with in game currency. A person buying in game currency with ZEN is still bringing money to the game. So the logic of cash only transaction to provide funding for the game is a false narrative. Anything purchased from the ZEN store is funding cryptic either directly or indirectly. Having the ZAX exchange and not gating access behind cash transactions is a big part of the game being able to be defined as not "P2W". I would avoid any movement that would justifiably label the game as P2W.

    I think the ZAX conversation or more importantly how to fix the ZAX backlog is a very different conversation



  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    I have a simple solution to Undercutting in AH.

    Why don't you implement the 10% AH fees that is deducted from your sale, and instead introduce it when you are listing your item in the AH. Refund the fees if item is not sold. That will stop players from reposting and from repeatedly undercutting. Again and I must stress this out; undercutting is a symptom of high supply, low demand, the root of the cause is the short pool of rewards.

    My top 3 choices
    Tweak VIP so that it is more welcoming to r new players. Name it something else to avoid confusion.
    From experience, the 3 the most important utilities I required as a newcomer were (in order of most to least important):
    Signpost
    Mailbox
    Bank
    Bring these 3 at the top of the VIP rank. So as a new player I can pay for 3 months VIP and have access to these utilities whilst levelling up. I would like to get rid of rank system but I can see it might further increase your workload. You can also look to add more ranks for higher AD cap and etc.


    Introduce a VIP for those of us who have nothing more to be sought aka veterans.
    My top 3 choices are from one post:
    - switching loadouts everywhere, except in instances with role requirements
    - allow free removal of enchantments from gear at no gold cost
    - for the time of VIP+ turn all "bind to char" items into "bind to account", so that they can be swapped between characters
    Other

    If you improve lockbox chance only to devalue VIP, you are prejudicing the normal VIP players over key alcoholics. If you want to keep the value of keys, why not increase their zen price as you ddecrease drop chance from the lockbox? Please do not benefit a specific audience at the detriment of the other.

    A VIP store seems like a great idea. If you make a VIP currency and reward enough currency to purchase 1 key a day then you are basically not changing anything. At the same time, players who would prefer other rewards can use the currency for something else but of-course keep the 3x rerolls per day as it is. You are basically giving players more choice and i am telling you, all new MMO's are moving in that direction.
    Post edited by sobi#1980 on
  • modestmouse75modestmouse75 Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    important to hear what everyone's three favorite ideas are from this CDP. A simple concise 1,2,3 is fine and feel free to continue discussion on other CDP members posts as they relate to the CDP.

    Thanks

    Chris

    I like the first one from Willow

    1. Create a "Super vendor" that is a combination of VIP rewards tokens, wondrous bizarre, tarmalene trade bar store, Invoking, and legacy campaigns

    Now I am not sure if this would be considered a #2 and 3 or 1-3 but I still like the 3 Ranks of VIP


    Rank 1:
    • Signpost
    • Mailbox
    • Immune to injury (but if you do this no need for injury kits, and you should do away with anything that can give
    injuries, I MEAN ANYTHING)
    • Daily Rewards (Key/coin)
    • Direct travel to Workshop

    Rank 2:
    • No posting fees to AH
    • Rushing Cost for companions 25 % less
    • Summon Vendor
    • Invocation
    • Bonus AD

    Rank 3:
    • Change out load outs without campfire
    • Power of VIP
    • Summon SH coffer
    • Bank
    • Wondrous Bazaar cost reduced 25%


    Side note:I have been speaking with RobbPVP and a great idea came up that I think would be nice, add Companion "skins/transmutes" similar to what we have for mounts.


    image
    SW:Mouse
    OP:MisfitMouse
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User



    And: I have bought VIP in the past simply because I wanted to do so. I could've just waited on ZAX, but I didn't, because I would've also invested that money in any other game if I played it for so many hours. Thats a matter of quality, as @oremonger#9999 stated. I would/will do so again. I would subscribe if I felt it would make sense, but I will also certainly buy Zen again simply because I want to support the game, but it comes down to how happy I feel.
    It is still ftp. I can still log in to chat even if I don't wanna run any RQ. But if I feel happy to play and put some hours in every day, I will buy again.
    Everybody is different, some people will never buy anything. Some people will throw their money at you. But many of us all are a bit holding their breath atm and see what will happen in the next months, I guess.

    This.

    When I like a game and play it regularly, I want to support it.
    After all, in order to cover the running costs and the development costs, the company needs real money.
    I realize that some people cannot afford to pay real money (they contribute to the community in other ways, for instance by sacrificing their time).
    But I can afford to pay some, and I think it is a fair thing to do (for those, that can afford it).

    However, the way how MOD 16 was introduced, negatively affected my willingness to support this game.
    Not so much because of the changes (and nerfs). The original idea of MOD 16 was not bad, but the implementation and the process was (tons of bugs and "on the fly" changes with horrible and very likely unforeseen side-effects).
    In any case, when it became clear, that the company was not willing to listen to the serious issues reported by many players on preview, even issues where the entire playerbase was united (a rare thing), my generally positive impression turned to negative.

    I realize, that there are many different opinions on the forums.
    Also, a large portion of the playerbase is not adequately represented (in particular new or mid-level players).
    The EP and his team need to keep the interest of *all* players in mind, not only those that are most vocal on the forums.
    Any change they make, will be appreciated by some and hated by others.
    I understand, that there will be changes I personally like, changes I hate, changes that I am indifferent to.
    This is all ok and good, if there is a general feeling that the devs "know what they are doing" and have the interest of the entire player base in mind (bis-players, new players, solo players, the non-vocal majority, etc.). It is a question of trust, not of a specific decision. This trust was more or less destroyed in the process of MOD 16.

    MOD 16 is history. What matters is now. I am very positively surprised, actually impressed with the efforts taken by the new EP and his team. I have never seen such a commitment, such an intense discussion with the players - with the top management directly involved. This gives me hope. My general feeling has turned positive.

    In the end decisions have to made. Not by us, but by Chris and the team. Some decisions I will not like. However, if I can trust the team, that it has both - their interest to make money (and keep the game running) and "our" interests, meaning the *entire* playerbase - in mind, trust will be won back.

    I find it a very good sign, that Chris is willing to hear the cacophony of opinions (and what a cacophony this is!) and to engage in a discussion with those that are willing. Please continue on this path. Hopefully we will travel together on the path for a long time to come.


  • tealducktealduck Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    First off I would like to say thanks for making such an engaging game for people to play.

    I see no benefits for Cryptic or the players to decrease the keys and/or increase the chances of drops on lock boxes. Too many risks of AD inflation/deflation in my opinion.

    The option of choosing rewards seems like a new complication, why not just add some new VIP levels to give these new benefits (additional preservation wards, dungeon keys, etc).

    VIP ranks - please don't remove these. If anything, add more as new conveniences are programmed:
    * Ability to invoke across accounts versus character cycling (reduces load on login servers and gives player a time boost)
    * Transfer profession resources using bank slots (using mail system for transferring resources seems outdated)
    * or even better an account collective of profession resources (VIP rank 18?)
    * Convenience, ability to use some items in shared bank slots directly without having to withdraw from bank, basically an automatic withdrawal system
    * Automatic VIP key claim service (maybe starting at rank 13 and capping at 7 and boosting the cap each additional level)

    Auction House Listing Fees - PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE listing fees. That will only hurt the market not make it better.

    Just some of my thoughts
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User

    Create a "Super vendor" that is a combination of VIP rewards tokens, wondrous bizarre, tarmalene trade bar store, Invoking, and legacy campaigns

    I support this. We have too many stores with different currencies.
    The problem is, that obviously there is a lack of development resources, to update them.
    The general stores (not the MOD specific seal vendors) should be regularly updated, ideally every new MOD.
    Combining all general stores into one, and allowing us to pay with different currencies (at a fixed exchange rate between currencies) will greatly facilitate the maintainment, will help to reduce the confusion for new players, etc. ...
  • sillystupidsimonsillystupidsimon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 27 Arc User
    Hi Julia and Chris,
    Can I request that you put the main changes/proposals for VIP into a voting box at the tip of the thread? There are some fabulous ideas both for and against but at 14 pages, needing an eye bath. Summary and a chance to see who's voting for/against would be awesome IMHO.
    Thanks
    Psy
  • scoutcavscoutcav Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    1. vip rank % Bonus for refining ad
    2. First time Vip purchase discount either with Actual money and or thru The Ad to Zen Program.
    3. Zen page should show what the actual currency cost per item.
    3. Concerns: I hear players saying they spent thousand's of dollars, Why should I ever spend my Hard earn moneys on Vip. especially when I have next to none, and maybe just maybe I got a spare 10 to 15 that month or conversely spend hours days and months grinding and refining ad to exchange ad for chance to benefit from free key to maybe Get a worth while Item. I could always go to another game.
    4. Hope this helps someway.
    Post edited by scoutcav on
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    Hi Julia and Chris,
    Can I request that you put the main changes/proposals for VIP into a voting box at the tip of the thread? There are some fabulous ideas both for and against but at 14 pages, needing an eye bath. Summary and a chance to see who's voting for/against would be awesome IMHO.
    Thanks
    Psy

    I'm not sure a vote is needed, but an update to the OP highlighting the most frequently discussed topics might help.

    Even so, I think to get involved in something like this, you need to understand a lot of the "Why" people want certain things to change/remain, so would advise reading as much of the stuff as you can.

    My opinion on at least two items has changed since my original post, not simply based on the suggestion, but on the explanation of the thinking behind the suggestions by other people.
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User


    Can I request that you put the main changes/proposals for VIP into a voting box at the tip of the thread?
    Psy

    This sounds like a good idea, but I think it is not.

    Why?

    Certain groups of players / playstyles are highly underrepresented on the forums.
    When you put something to vote on the forum, you get a very biased result.
    The devs need to keep the interest of all players in mind.
    Voting results from a biased sample (even if the vote is just a "recommendation") will undercut the ability of the devs, to act in the interest of all.
  • icekoob#9523 icekoob Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Everyone pays for VIP for 3 things. Keys daily, no auction house fees and fast travel. Dont change any of these things. Why are you even wanting to overhaul VIP when it's working ok and there are a million things that need addressing. Fix compy first. Find a way to bring back foundry for VIP fees and use that money to pay for an extra dev to maintain it. Fix rewards. Finish new masterwork. Theres a million things we want and need, VIP is very low on the list... lastly DONT MESS WITH VIP AUCTION POSTING FEES AND DAILY KEYS. WE LIKE IT HOW IT IS THANK YOU. CAPS HERE SO YOU CAN READ THIS HOW MY BRAIN IS FEELING IT. THANK YOU :)
  • icekoob#9523 icekoob Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Additionally please remove AH posting fee from everyone VIP or not. It would make everyone happy and people who paid for VIP wont leave the game over it.
  • dagmurdagmur Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    Talking about VIP coming out of the blue makes me wonder why Cryptic even mentions it? You already took a lot advantage away of the VIP-Members in the past years. Instead talking of VIP, fix the game!

    VIP to me means having access to my Bank, being able to teleport calling a signpost, not getting wounded by these silly traps in dungeons and paying no fee at the Auction House. Of course I do appreciate the keys, even if there is not much / good outcome. I never got a legendary mount in 5 years being VIP. Check the history of my account if you don't believe it.

    1. I like the idea of more HP being VIP, I like the idea to change loadouts everywhere in the game.

    2. Ranks: Giving someone paying 1 month VIP Rank 12 is a clever business idea but a slap in the face of those having VIP since years. If you have to do it, give something back to us "Oldies" like a "Classic VIP Rank" with a few more advantages like some extra keys / items.

    3. Reroll tokens: I want to keep / have them! Otherwise make the rewards of dungeons finally worth to play it. Getting old / worthless itmes finishing FBI is just an example. A toon of L 80 with an Item level of 26k doesn't need anything from FBI but the AD. My (little) Cleric for sure does a reroll, if he only gets 550 AD in the Chestbox of an older dungeon.

    4. AD: Adding some AD advantage to VIP would be appreciated. As others mentioned before, give us more per VIP Rank. VIP 1 = 110k - VIP 12 = 220k as an example.

    5. AH fee: NO! I am not using the AH often to sell things, but as an VIP I won't pay a fee, why should I? You already take AD away if I sell an Item. If you don't understand how a market works, there is business classes to attend. Undercutting someone isn't a bad thing. Everyone does it and it's okay. Though I could live with a cooldown to prevent items getting removed and put in the AH several times a day.

    6. VIP-Shop: We already have two Shops to buy things. Fix them, bring new items, remove as well the very old overpriced ones.

    Conclusion: Make VIP great again. Make us feel like we are something / someone special while buying it and supporting your game. But don't put your anger on us, that's at least how I feel it, if something isn't going the way Cryptic (Devs) want it. Take any more of the VIP advantage away, reduce keys, make me pay a fee at the AH and you will loose another player.
  • baronvonboombaronvonboom Member Posts: 536 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    1. RMT ViP with bonus ie exclusive monthly vanity pet etc
    2. Reworking existing assets for a new all inclusive store rather than devoting more resources to a new currency etc
    3. Honoring existing ViP subscriptions into whatever future shape they may take.

    Cheeky 4. Less tail wagging the dog, dont let a small percentage of the playerbase dominate your direction.
  • raiderone000raiderone000 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    I agree that one Key per day or 30 Keys per month is a great benefit to being VIP. Removing it will definitely alienate
    the majority of VIP players. The keys alone make VIP worth it.

    1125 Zen for Ten Keys versus 5100 Zen for VIP 6 Months. 1125 by 3= 3375 Zen (30 Keys). 3375 Zen by 6 Months= 20250 Zen. But that's with the current 10 Keys available in Zen Store not with 50 Keys (which is discounted more due to quantity).
    All with no discounts like 40% off (well not this year) :( Leads me to another new VIP, additional % off from Vouchers.
    Or additional % off during discount periods...

    I recommend the following: 10 Keys available every 15 Days with the 10 Best Lockbox (the Magnificent One).
    And they stay available during absence until claimed.

    Another keeper is the W Bazaar Discount and Trade Bar Discounts. Remove them at your peril!!!
    Another post suggested that VIPs make AD on WB discount with MArk 5's. Not really maybe 4 K AD.
    Mark 5 @ 56k with WB Discount and 60K in AH. I'm not going to waste my time for 4K AD.
    If Auction House is such a worry about AD, then removing or decreasing discount isn't a deal breaker and would the
    least of all concerns!!!

    But keep in mind, any AH problems with AD values are not VIP issues. They are Game issues due to Bugs, Players
    taking advantage of bugs like Legendary Mount issue. New content that gives way too much AD, like the new bags from little
    Quasit in Avenus and too much AD from each Demon Summoning (aka King Kong). Little effort for high rewards.
    Siege on the other hand, rewards should be increased versus King Kong! Siege doesn't give enough based on risk vs reward plus failures. King Kong and Quasit Bags have caused easy AD and thus breaks the Auction House values (IMO).

    Quasit Bags are the biggest AD imbalance. 10 Bags, easy 80K AD.

  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User
    dagmur said:



    2. Ranks: Giving someone paying 1 month VIP Rank 12 is a clever business idea but a slap in the face of those having VIP since years. If you have to do it, give something back to us "Oldies" like a "Classic VIP Rank" with a few more advantages like some extra keys / items.

    So if you use netflix now, is a slap in the face for people that uses it since 1 year ago because now it has more content?

    Or if you are client of a isp and you have internet since it was 500Kb/s download and now the same company sell the service at same prize than 10 years ago but now it offers 1Gb/s... is a slap in the face for old customers isnt?

    Cmon this is a very poor argument and only people who is bad tolerating changes defend it. At least use another argument to defend why you want to keep 12 ranks but not that HAMSTER.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
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  • brycelovesgamingbrycelovesgaming Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    kind of a copy paste, but I agree with lordaeolos on basically every front.
    1. Create a "Super vendor" that is a combination of VIP rewards tokens, wondrous bizarre, tarmalene trade bar store, Invoking, and legacy campaigns
    2. Remove ranks from VIP, giving all benefits day #1
    3. Keep all QOL features from VIP, and add a few more like extra vanity pet storage/ vanity transmutes, ability to change loadouts outside of campfires, and/or extra loadouts.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,939 Arc User
    • May be duplicate with someone else’s feedback, but haven’t read through everything yet

    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
    Engage with a Business Analyst to review initiative proposals, complete ROI analysis on them, and priorities them

    Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
    Provide additional rewards through VIP

    Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
    Business Analysts work to quantify the costs and the benefits of projects. As an integrated part of layer between management and development staff they work to aid managers in making informed decisions based on realistic costs associated with implementing a project, the expected value of the implementation, and ranking them based on ROI. They look beyond what may be a good project and focus more on which projects will give the highest return on the resources spent. Don’t rely on personal experience and gut checks to make decisions. As the old carpentry line goes, measure twice and cut once.

    Risks & Concerns
    (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
    - Implementing a Business Analyst requires time and in immature organizations can require effort by management to ensure appropriate support is given in their integration.
    - Make sure your business analyst is skilled and has a CBAP certification, you can’t turn administrative staff into a business analyst and expect quality results
    - Data quality may be limited until organization integration is complete

    https://iiba.org/
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    Reading all the responses before writing my response is too daunting.
    So instead I just want to say if I am repeating something someone else said then its because
    I didn't in fact read over all the thread. I am simply giving my response to the original post.

    Rate of Keys:

    How about keep it one key per day but give VIP players a chance to obtain free keys as rewards in dungeons.
    You can keep the chance low, but give us a chance to obtain a free key as a reward too.

    Alternate Keys:

    Make another new currency? We already get enchanting stones from everything else like lock boxes. If we open a lock box there is a 90% chance we will get an enchanting stone. Not sure I see the point in doubling up on this unless the lock boxes
    removed the chances of getting enchanting stones. If these enchanting stones from this currency can't be traded then they aren't a reward at all if you have a maxed out character. So in this case, its not a reward for VIP.

    Didn't we already have another key through VIP which was an epic dungeon key? So essentially this would be putting that back in, even if its not a key but instead a currency to get stones. The reason it's the same is because the epic dungeon key rewards were just that, stones. So before we would get 1 lock box key and an epic dungeon key. What was in those epic dungeon chests? RP, stones, and a possible decent item. So you want to put this back in?

    Ranks:

    Well the rank system was sort of a mild road block anyways. A player who sees VIP as necessary won't care about rank
    because they will continue to get VIP regardless. And also its not like you get the Rank unlocks without VIP being active so to maintain the unlock for the rank the player is going to continue to get VIP. All the ranks did was punish a player for not getting enough VIP to unlock everything right a way.

    Current Benefits:

    The only real benefit I like is sign post. I have completely given up on lock box keys. I have been playing since 2013 and
    have never gotten anything good out of lock boxes. And for the past year all I get is Refinement Points that I don't need. So
    I don't even care about the daily key because I know I'm never going to pull a legendary mount. It just becomes a disappointment.

    New Benefits:

    The problem with benefits is they divide the community. So some new benefits can be too extreme where the game becomes
    too VIP focused or becomes a metric of exclusion by other players. Like the suggestion of granting 1% base bonus HP for every
    party member in the party. Well this becomes an exclusivity issue now. Would players start demanding you have this to be allowed to join content?

    I think reducing all the cost of upgrading should be impacted by VIP. So instead of needing X number of marks of potency or enchanting stones, they are reduced for VIP. Sure this sounds like pay to win but its not required by F2P players. They can
    still get those upgrades, with more work. Don't just reduce the RP requirement, because we are already given so much RP that its not even a reward if you only reduced the RP requirement. No one even cares about RP in game because 90% of our current rewards is nothing other than RP. Reduce the number of stones for upgrading.

    Why not add in the ability to trade any game currency between alts? Voninblod just an example. I can't trade it to an alt. Give us the option if we have VIP to transfer any game currency for campaigns or any currency to alts.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Vip Boxes have in the past few years already been devalued many times, the changes proposed would , even if status is net neutral, basically keeping the same values, means the value of the original VIP ranking still hasnt retained itself. Its basically a sub, but you guys treat it as something to continue to take away, instead of making it more valuable.

    Ranking meant little, for most people, it was a simple 1 time purchase to hit 12, some of us did 6/6 ect. It really wasnt a big issue to most of us that were playing for more then 1 month.

    The biggest takeaway I get from any of this, is simply the astonishment that some people might have 3 years of vip left.. I never bought more then 6 months at a time, simply because I didnt want to "have" to log in if I got tired of it again and again.

    Instead of finding net neutral ideas, I think most people would rather see the following.
    1. Increase the lockbox odds anyways.. they stink and some of us had opened up thousands of boxes to little to no impact on daily game life. If that means the highest items are a bit less valuable.
    2. Find new solutions to increase value of vip, not less, or net neutral, I simply do not understand why you act like those paying you the sub fees should be considering taking less value for purchases , not more.
    3. Early on VIP was just a wondersauce of AD making, nowadays, its far less.
    4. I could care less about the value or not value of AD, or Zen market, that was for people who played 100% free and didnt have resources or time to earn more AD. I might have purchased zen once from the market in the time I was playing, If I wanted something, I used a coupon or waited for a sale and bought it (packs, vip, mounts ect), but as things continued to change and devalue, I stopped all purchases(all mounts should be account wide, all comps should be account wide, all packages should be account wide, you guys are the worst with this.. and eventually gave up logging in. I still miss neverwinter, but I doubt it would be ever the same for me again.


  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 613 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    It is very simple, removing any benefit from VIP with out a corresponding increase that is perceived to be of equivalent or better value will cost the game more of its player base. The more value removed, the higher the player loss. And you will have an uphill battle convincing players that the new benefits are worth what you remove.

    Remember, you are depending on the existing VIP members to recommend it to new players.
  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    Since I've never used VIP I'm not really in a position to comment on the above, but figured I had a semi-relevant topic anyway... What would help encourage me to buy VIP status? Most of the bonuses are just quality of life stuff which doesn't appeal to someone who likes running everywhere anyway. So that leaves... keys.

    Feedback Overview

    Convince more people to buy VIP through transparency of odds.

    Feedback Goal
    When thinking what would help encourage me to buy VIP, the first thing that came to mind is transparency - having all the information at hand to make an informed decision if this is worth the money spent.

    Feedback Functionality
    This is for all players, regardless of VIP status. A mouse over on a lockbox or in the dungeon queue window rewards section should display the possible items within (like it does now) AND the accurate % for each item to appear. This ideally would encourage the purchase of VIP / keys if that number is favorable to the player.

    As a bonus, should loot box/gambling laws ever come to pass, you won't have to do any extra work in displaying the odds.

    Risks & Concerns
    Game wise there shouldn't be any risk as it's just a display change. I doubt the marketing team will be happy showing their hand though... or they might? Can't tell because we can't see the numbers ourselves. That's the whole problem. :)
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Since I've never used VIP I'm not really in a position to comment on the above, but figured I had a semi-relevant topic anyway... What would help encourage me to buy VIP status? Most of the bonuses are just quality of life stuff which doesn't appeal to someone who likes running everywhere anyway. So that leaves... keys.

    Feedback Overview

    Convince more people to buy VIP through transparency of odds.

    Feedback Goal
    When thinking what would help encourage me to buy VIP, the first thing that came to mind is transparency - having all the information at hand to make an informed decision if this is worth the money spent.

    Feedback Functionality
    This is for all players, regardless of VIP status. A mouse over on a lockbox or in the dungeon queue window rewards section should display the possible items within (like it does now) AND the accurate % for each item to appear. This ideally would encourage the purchase of VIP / keys if that number is favorable to the player.

    As a bonus, should loot box/gambling laws ever come to pass, you won't have to do any extra work in displaying the odds.

    Risks & Concerns
    Game wise there shouldn't be any risk as it's just a display change. I doubt the marketing team will be happy showing their hand though... or they might? Can't tell because we can't see the numbers ourselves. That's the whole problem. :)

    rainer does the odds on lockboxes. it's not transparent from cryptic but there is info out there. I think the rate is like .017 or something like that
  • tanais58cranetanais58crane Member Posts: 111 Arc User

    marketing a bad product is still a bad product and people can see thru marketing that the product is still bad. a lock box costing 2x the keys will still be the same lockbox. having .16 odds on the best thing, tripled is still bad. and it's not the chase item that is the bread and butter that makes lockboxes worth while. it's the other things in the lock boxes. it's a bad deal. when i do buy keys it's generally not because I'm chasing the grand prize (although i'm pleased when I do get one) it's generally because i need marks, or im chasing a comp or something like that. yeah it's slightly cheaper to buy marks or buy the pack on the ah to open but sometimes it's not. or I feel like taking my chances. charging 2x as much for that is insulting.

    you can put lipstick on the pig.. that doesn't make it a fashion model. it's still a barnyard critter.

    how about they leave it all alone and keep giving us the product that is working as intended.

    The matter here is simply how much they improve lockboxes if they decide to make a two keys model, earlier I opened the most recent lockbox to take a look at it and my rewards added up to a Black Opal, a Blood Ruby and two green insignias so you don't have to tell me about bad drop chances. Yes I forgot to anoint the sacred oils, yes I forgot to mutter the litany for safe opening. Forgive me Omnissiah, but there was no need of a critical failure to punish my lack of piety.

    yes not cornering the player base is good, but not doing things to hamster over the player base regardless of the way you try and market it is even better. because you can spin things doesn't mean you should. it's not how you gain trust. it's how you gain a reputation as a used car salesman.

    All the good intentions in the world do not make a difference, I'm afraid. Do they ever? At the end of the day, if they want to improve the chances on lockboxes they will need to also tinker with the supply of keys, and VIP is the biggest source of lockbox keys for many. But as you exemplify, even the best intended changes will be met with some well earned suspicion at best, downright hostility for quite a few.
    The stars are falling, and the old gods silent as death, with the blood sworn to rip you down from the night sky, what cost will pose too high?
  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    rainer does the odds on lockboxes. it's not transparent from cryptic but there is info out there. I think the rate is like .017 or something like that

    Thanks thefiresidecat. I have no idea who rainer is, but unless s/he's Cryptic staff, people shouldn't need to search/work out for themselves what the rates are. It should be readily available in game. That really goes for all pertinent game information.

    As an aside, .017 is a really *cute hamster* number.
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    I hope Loot boxes are included as part of the rewards and progression CDP. @rainer#8575 will probably have quite a bit to say about that subject. Regardless of Rainer's much appreciated efforts though, we do not have the official odds and we never will. I seem to remember something about PWE/Cryptic pulling the game from Asia? or China? because they would not release the odds. (I could be wrong and this could have been just a rumor, it has been years.) Releasing the odds may very well be out of Cryptic's hands for all we know.

    This brings up an interesting dilemma as far as this CDP is concerned. IMO we should try to be as future proof as possible when thinking about and discussing CDP topics. I would like to avoid nerfs and drastic changes to the game in the future if possible. I'm sure many of you feel the same way.

    I honestly see the writing on the wall as far as keys and lock boxes go, and I'm sure many of you do also. Regardless of our views on lockboxes in general and the whole "gambling - not gambling" and "Adult -vs- Minor" arguments change is coming no matter what side of the fence we find ourselves on.

    I have a feeling that Cryptic may be trying to get out ahead of this. I do not blame them, lock boxes are probably a large portion of the revenue made from this game. Sadly for them this is a lose, lose situation IMO. With that in mind what happens to VIP if this part of it (keys and Lock boxes) has to go away or change drastically because of regulation? Would you feel different about your views on keys and lock boxes in VIP if you knew Cryptic had no choice or were trying to be proactive? Would you rather wait until regulation happens to even discuss this topic and aspect of VIP?

    Many of us in this thread have already said that losing even the few keys in the example given was unacceptable. If there was no choice what then? Would you just drop VIP? What could replace keys and lock boxes and still provide the value we associate with them? Coal wards? Preservation wards? How many how often? Account bound or unbound? How much would you be willing to pay for VIP without Keys or an equivalent substitute?

    If Cryptic loses this part of their revenue stream due to regulation are there any new services besides a straight out subscription model you would be willing to buy?

    Rereading through the comments in this CDP has made me start thinking about this one aspect of VIP. Hope I'm not out of line or off topic, apologies.


    to me odds don't matter. I wouldn't pay cash for lockbox keys alone. they are purchasable with ad. the way to do it is just to make the keys purchasable with ad. and make give people a reason to buy zen to convert for keys. to call in game lockboxes gambling seems like a stretch to me. I find the whole thing ridiculous.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    If Cryptic loses this part of their revenue stream due to regulation are there any new services besides a straight out subscription model you would be willing to buy?

    Rereading through the comments in this CDP has made me start thinking about this one aspect of VIP. Hope I'm not out of line or off topic, apologies.

    Also there is no such thing as a free to play game. Someone ALWAYS has to pay in one form or another.

    I don't think regulation will come to impact lock boxes at all. They might have to do it for consoles but probably wont need to do it for PC. Which means they might tweak the lock boxes on consoles but leave them hidden on PC.

    As far as subscription goes. Personally I would never pay monthly to play NW. The content is just not worth the price. I don't enjoy a huge majority of the game so it just wouldn't be worth it at this point. Maybe if they drastically changed the game campaigns a subscription model could be acceptable from my personal perspective.

    I have dropped $200 at one time in NW for a pack that is now extremely outdated and obsolete in everything it has. Could I have spent that money more wisely, most definitely. But I wanted that pack at the time it was released. Would I do that again? Definitely not. After I dropped cash for the mod 12 weapons to be replaced one mod later by easy to obtain weapons, I realized their model became, advertise nice items and then make them exempt new mod for more cash items in the new mod. I don't mind helping Cryptic keep their game going but I refuse to be given an item that gets hit hard by the nerf hammer later, like the Chultan Tiger or the Archons. Spending a ton of AD on items is fine but I refuse to spend any cash on any items anymore because they will 100% be nerfed in the new mod or some new item will replace them.

    I have completely given up on lock box keys. I just don't care about lock boxes, 90% of the rewards are absolute junk, I don't need nor want. I don't think lock boxes should be any incentive currently to get VIP. If you are motivated by this then you are in for some sad days.

This discussion has been closed.