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Official M16: Difficulty Issues and Unexpected Deaths

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  • arakk00arakk00 Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    Bug: The Bone Golem sub-boss on the first expedition to Terminus can one-shot most characters with any attack except for the quick attack. This seems to be the old damage model, not the new one. Far from unbeatable, but pretty annoying.
    A <Friendly Dragon>!
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Stronghold boons scale up for 71+ characters.

    I thought that was actually WAI. Is it supposed to stop at 70? That would be...disappointing.

    the rest boons give their tooltip stat rating.
  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    3/29 update:

    Green Dragonclaws in ESOT hit significantly harder than other mobs. Had one hit me, non-crit, for ~110k, got crit-1shot twice for >150k. I only have 118k in this instance due to scaling even as a 20.5k ilvl Barbarian in full Protege gear with 25.6k defense.

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1697955253

    I'm back to feeling like I'm hitting like a wet noodle. The changes to encounter powers really hurt. Bloodletter+Bloodspiller is no longer 1-shotting myself, but it's also only hitting for less than 1/10th of what it had been (200k+ in ESOT, 450k+ in Vanrakdoom). NSF is hitting for barely over 1k, it's literally weaker than Relentless Slash. Axestorm went from 200k+ without Daggers to 15k. This is not the "30 percent" reduction you claimed you'd be doing.

    Also, enemies don't feel like they've had their health reduced at all. Especially bosses. TTK has more than doubled when fighting pretty much anything solo.
    Post edited by drumon88 on
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    drumon88 said:

    This is not the "30 percent" reduction you claimed you'd be doing.

    It was never stated how much Encounter and Dailies were being reduced, just that they were being reduced.

  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User

    drumon88 said:

    This is not the "30 percent" reduction you claimed you'd be doing.

    It was never stated how much Encounter and Dailies were being reduced, just that they were being reduced.

    Yep, my mistake, I saw they were reducing mob health by 30% and also reducing Encounter damage (by an unspecified amount) and conflated the two.
  • xdruidgregxxdruidgregx Member Posts: 57 Arc User

    I take scaling is still messed up coz i'm still one shotted on CN. In my personal opinion you should make scaling your top priority to solve before M16 goes live ( as it's more or less month since preview started, scaling still is not fixed. That dosn't convince me u'll be able to fix it on time ) If u are sure can fix it on time good, if not get rid of scaling on M16 and work on it some more. Do not impose on us something that pretty much brakes 90% of game. Use time and resources put on scaling to make other things work properly.
  • dressrobadressroba Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    dressroba said:

    i did vt 2 times and the ghosts one the aoe phase in the last boss are bugged they don't even move .

    the ghosts now move in VT , but they move a bit too fast u can't out run them . :#
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User

    Castle Never is still impossible for me to solo. scaled to 22k armor penetration and 128k max HP I am unable to do significant damage, or take a single hit.
    https://imgur.com/a/WJEA7F4

    my at wills are doing 1-4k dmg and encounters max 15k....my companion meanwhile isn't having his damage mitigated at all, and is hitting for 28-50k per hit
    https://imgur.com/a/YF1LveL

    you need 57k penetration for level 70 content.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User

    Castle Never is still impossible for me to solo. scaled to 22k armor penetration and 128k max HP I am unable to do significant damage, or take a single hit.
    https://imgur.com/a/WJEA7F4

    my at wills are doing 1-4k dmg and encounters max 15k....my companion meanwhile isn't having his damage mitigated at all, and is hitting for 28-50k per hit
    https://imgur.com/a/YF1LveL

    While I think the comments about scaling are valid, I will note you are not supposed to be able to solo CN, or any dungeon.
    I think the dev expectation around that is a little unrealistic while they tune dungeons to work for different iLs, eventually there will be a point where lower iLs are solo content, but that state shouldn’t exist with places like CN at the launch of Mod16.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I believe they have been called out before but the Scorpions in LoL are unexpectedly difficult still:

    Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 92573 (472493) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 112290 (428222) Fire Damage to you with Rain of Fire.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 7972 (24300) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.
    [Combat (Self)] Fire Scorpion deals 310357 (472998) Fire Damage to you with Flame Blast.

    The 243k hit is tankable with heals available, the 473k hit isn’t really tankable without HP being scaled from 530k down to 360k.

    Aside from the Scorpion problem the dungeon feels good. (I stopped at the Scorpions, as that’s what I was there to understand.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    Castle Never is still impossible for me to solo. scaled to 22k armor penetration and 128k max HP I am unable to do significant damage, or take a single hit.
    https://imgur.com/a/WJEA7F4

    my at wills are doing 1-4k dmg and encounters max 15k....my companion meanwhile isn't having his damage mitigated at all, and is hitting for 28-50k per hit
    https://imgur.com/a/YF1LveL

    Well, Castle Never should be impossible to solo. Or, at least I think that's the idea. It is meant to be group content where you need a full 5-man group, and I guess it is partly just WAI. Those big hits by the scorpions look a bit...off, though.

    Now, not all L70 content is equal .... just check the stats of, say a R14 enchant, and see how it gets scaled down differently in different L70 areas.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User

    adinosii said:



    Well, Castle Never should be impossible to solo. Or, at least I think that's the idea. It is meant to be group content where you need a full 5-man group, and I guess it is partly just WAI.

    I could agree there, but as a level 80 near BIS character with years put into her i feel she should be able to solo something like a level 70 dungeon such as Castle Never. She should be strong enough to carry an entire group of 4 new players in something on that level. She has been able to do this on live for over a year. Knowing she can complete the dungeon alone is reassuring when helping inexperienced players through it.
    I don't think it's reasonable to expect to be able to solo a piece of 5man content; that you were able to do so before was clearly not intended.

    That doesn't mean you can't carry a party of new people, simply that they have to at least be at their keyboards when you do so.

    Given that, I'd still agree that the scaling is overly aggressive.
  • violencebf22violencebf22 Member Posts: 45 Arc User

    its probably not intended, and certainly isnt easy or fast, but i dont think theirs anything wrong with being able to do it or that it should be impossible,
    take this game into perspcetive for a moment
    in traditional d&d the level cap is 20 right? and at 20 your are running strongholds and fighting legendary monsters and basically a demi-god.
    Here the level cap is far beyond that, not to mention something as basic as Hit Points. at level 20 in d&d you wont have even 1000k HP, not even 500 most likely.
    So to say that a level 80 character with 300,000 Hit Points, "Unparalled Enchantments" and Legendary gear, Legendary companions, 15 mythic artifacts or more, couldn't take out a level 70 Orcus, is absurd to me, to say the least.

    But just do not forget that this is a MMO which is based on DnD and does not completely copy it. you can't compare the train and the car just because they carry people. The train will carry a large number of people but 1 way.But the car will take a small group but their path can be varied even off-road(it all depends on DM)
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User

    its probably not intended, and certainly isnt easy or fast, but i dont think theirs anything wrong with being able to do it or that it should be impossible,
    take this game into perspcetive for a moment
    in traditional d&d the level cap is 20 right? and at 20 your are running strongholds and fighting legendary monsters and basically a demi-god.
    Here the level cap is far beyond that, not to mention something as basic as Hit Points. at level 20 in d&d you wont have even 1000k HP, not even 500 most likely.
    So to say that a level 80 character with 300,000 Hit Points, "Unparalled Enchantments" and Legendary gear, Legendary companions, 15 mythic artifacts or more, couldn't take out a level 70 Orcus, is absurd to me, to say the least.

    No, I don't think it's logical that you can solo a god.
  • themule#2469 themule Member Posts: 26 Arc User


    So to say that a level 80 character with 300,000 Hit Points, "Unparalled Enchantments" and Legendary gear, Legendary companions, 15 mythic artifacts or more, couldn't take out a level 70 Orcus, is absurd to me, to say the least.

    It makes sense from a gameplay standpoint. They took away lifesteal to make healers necessary, that means it's just normal you can't solo CN. You need at least someone to heal you.

    There's no really choice here: we have now very little content that is worth farming because all the rest is too easy. If scaling makes CN as difficult as TONG and both (almost) as difficult as the lastest dungeon, they'll be able to add meaningful rewards back to CN and keep TONG a rewarding dungeon.

    Face it: if you can easily solo it, it can't have any decent reward. I'd rather have a lot of almost equally rewarding dungeons rather than just being forced to run the one introduced in the last mod over and over.

    Difficulty and rewards are tightly coupled.

  • jshetley#1170 jshetley Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Still need to work on the entire Karzov instance. This is still way too hard.
  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Garakas in ESOT is still 1-shotting with ability "dancing flames". My 20k ilvl Barbarian is downscaled to 106k health and that ability is hitting non-crit for 90-130k and critting for 400k+ despite being well over defense threshold and getting significant mitigation. Keep in mind this ability DOES NOT have a "tell" such as red, or a significant wind-up, and is AoE in a cone. This will absolutely be a group-wiper if the tank isn't extremely well geared and able to keep aggro and the boss turned away from the group.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1704504421
    Rest of instance feels pretty good. Even with careful play I still had 1 death to get to Garakas. Things hit hard enough to be a threat but not so ridiculously hard it will be insurmountable for groups of the target ilvl.

    edited for a more usable link
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    @drumom88 so your saying your DPS needs a tank to eat the big hits?

    Because my 20032iL Sentinel has 293k HP in eSoT, and can eat that daggers attack with either her shield or rage.

    Perhaps the problem isn’t the damage the boss is doing?
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    Hey its a new lot of critters dealing crazy damage in the scaled HEs this week...

    Firstly because I'm scaled (why are the HEs scaled? They are level 80 content....) I go from 366k HP to 246214 HP, that's without the loss of other stats destroying the character's effectiveness vs enemies. I really hate this scaling stuff.

    So here are a selection of hits from the HE in Terminus:

    [Combat (Self)] Umber Hulk deals 74612 (126225) Physical Damage to you with Claw.
    [Combat (Self)] Greater Ettercap deals 54862 (185625) Physical Damage to you with Web Spit.

    [Combat (Self)] Umber Hulk deals 122890 (207900) Physical Damage to you with Burst.

    A personal favorite due to the randomly appearing tornadoes that throw you into the air:
    [Combat (Self)] You lose 84929 Physical Damage from falling.

    [Combat (Self)] Savage deals 14434 (222835) Physical Damage to you with Big Slam.
    [Combat (Self)] Savage deals 21374 (267402) Physical Damage to you with Leaping Smash.

    [Combat (Self)] Ogre deals 176130 (445669) Physical Damage to you with Dazing Fist.
    [Combat (Self)] Ogre deals 316140 (534803) Physical Damage to you with Punch.
    [Combat (Self)] Ogre deals 189684 (641764) Physical Damage to you with Leaping Smash.
    [Combat (Self)] Ogre deals 141906 (534803) Physical Damage to you with Big Slam.

    Strangely staying alive in the face of those hits is a bit problematic, and this is supposed to be solo content.

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • vikingozzievikingozzie Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6 Arc User
    When I do the easiest heroic encounters in the stronghold they go fine soloing, but running them in other areas where we get scaled to lvl 70 I get crushed. They need to be made playable for solo play or running content becomes more work trying to find groups all the time than it should be to just go do them.
  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User

    @drumom88 so your saying your DPS needs a tank to eat the big hits?



    Because my 20032iL Sentinel has 293k HP in eSoT, and can eat that daggers attack with either her shield or rage.



    Perhaps the problem isn’t the damage the boss is doing?

    It's a directional AoE that's chain-cast and doesn't produce red, in an instance with an ilvl requirement of 8000 (not 20,000). It's more than just "lol let the tank eat it" and more than just positioning because he opens with it and aggros before you can get him "positioned" AKA turned away from the group. Especially since it hits for 2-3x more than any of his other 3 attacks. I really don't see a way to consistently start the fight without most of the group eating at least one blast.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    drumon88 said:

    @drumom88 so your saying your DPS needs a tank to eat the big hits?



    Because my 20032iL Sentinel has 293k HP in eSoT, and can eat that daggers attack with either her shield or rage.



    Perhaps the problem isn’t the damage the boss is doing?

    It's a directional AoE that's chain-cast and doesn't produce red, in an instance with an ilvl requirement of 8000 (not 20,000). It's more than just "lol let the tank eat it" and more than just positioning because he opens with it and aggros before you can get him "positioned" AKA turned away from the group. Especially since it hits for 2-3x more than any of his other 3 attacks. I really don't see a way to consistently start the fight without most of the group eating at least one blast.
    I remember even back in mod6, finding it odd that his essentially autoattack hit for almost as much as his big red breath weapon. I was able to accidentally solo him back then(party killed the drakes, then wiped to fireballs) on a tactician with Lunge, Bull, ITF, and milking the interaction between Guarded Assault and Fighter's Recovery, but it was tense even so.

    Which admittedly felt good when I won, but his boss design and tuning were and are still wonky. That move needs at least a white-flare chargeup, and should honestly be interspersed with claw attacks or something to give the tank and healer a moment to breathe. Chaincasting tankbusters that don't look like tankbusters is just odd, and is likely to be repulsive to new players, since there's really no similar fight in any of the content I've done so far to teach you how to do it. (red disciples in the Well could qualify, but they're tuned so much lower that it's hard to count them)
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    drumon88 said:

    @drumom88 so your saying your DPS needs a tank to eat the big hits?



    Because my 20032iL Sentinel has 293k HP in eSoT, and can eat that daggers attack with either her shield or rage.



    Perhaps the problem isn’t the damage the boss is doing?

    It's a directional AoE that's chain-cast and doesn't produce red, in an instance with an ilvl requirement of 8000 (not 20,000). It's more than just "lol let the tank eat it" and more than just positioning because he opens with it and aggros before you can get him "positioned" AKA turned away from the group. Especially since it hits for 2-3x more than any of his other 3 attacks. I really don't see a way to consistently start the fight without most of the group eating at least one blast.
    I remember even back in mod6, finding it odd that his essentially autoattack hit for almost as much as his big red breath weapon. I was able to accidentally solo him back then(party killed the drakes, then wiped to fireballs) on a tactician with Lunge, Bull, ITF, and milking the interaction between Guarded Assault and Fighter's Recovery, but it was tense even so.

    Which admittedly felt good when I won, but his boss design and tuning were and are still wonky. That move needs at least a white-flare chargeup, and should honestly be interspersed with claw attacks or something to give the tank and healer a moment to breathe. Chaincasting tankbusters that don't look like tankbusters is just odd, and is likely to be repulsive to new players, since there's really no similar fight in any of the content I've done so far to teach you how to do it. (red disciples in the Well could qualify, but they're tuned so much lower that it's hard to count them)
    This boss OK. I do not see what is your problem except you got used to the style: run in, dont care with anything but DPS, life steel will solve all other problem.

    "It's a directional AoE that's chain-cast and doesn't produce red"
    You need a bit attention b/c there is no red indication of the cone attack, but easy to see and avoid it by stepping left/right. Just find the rytm.

    "I really don't see a way to consistently start the fight without most of the group eating at least one blast. Especially since it hits for 2-3x more than any of his other 3 attacks. "
    Position your team before running up. Tell the others to run halway to the side and run up from there. Tank shall start running up to him from the middle once everyone is in position.

    "That move needs at least a white-flare chargeup, and should honestly be interspersed with claw attacks or something to give the tank and healer a moment to breathe."
    If you are talking about the cone attack then there are two things.
    1. as I wrote, the tank can avoid it by stepping left/right
    2. if it was still a problem b/c of regularity and tank fails to step, one ranged DPS can fight from range. In this case it will replace every second cone attack with fireball.

    If you were still in trouble then one must kite the drakes far away, while rest burns Garakas. The boss is way weeker while the drakes are alive. Just dont forget that you must kill the drakes after boss is down (hence it is irritating that random PT will be dismissed once boss is down).
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