First encounter in CN is still bugged: [Combat (Self)] Glabrezu deals 282170 (324000) Physical Damage to you with Pincer. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Shadow Demon deals 80061 (183860) Physical Damage to you with Claw. [Combat (Self)] Barlgura deals 65689 (243000) Physical Damage to you with Bash.
Oh and then your stats in CN are worse than your stats in ToS, GWD, and CC.... They look the same when you get in, but make it to the first campfire (by being tricksie) and viola your actual stats are revealed...
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Ok, the final boss of SoT is tough but a tank with a decent healer should have no problem. Just soloed the whole thing and only used health stones on boss fight. For solo the trick is to circle him to the left as the daggers attack is to our right. Took direct hits from him and survived.
For the record, 20.26k Il Paladin tank. My buffs were Potion of heroism, superior potion of force, anniversary ham, gift of awareness, and chult chain(forget what the buff was).
stats: actual with buffs** scaled with buffs Power 68.5k 58.8k ArP 60.6k 60k defense 83k 71k crit 41.9k 48.8k* Crit AV 50.2k 55.4k* Acc 39.6k 47k* Deflect 64.7k 65.7k* CA 47.6k 52.8k* Aware 47.6k 49k* HP 467k 354.9k * assuming this is from buffs. ** no sure if that includes the chain
SoT final boss is very doable, let the tank take the agro first, heal them, and then DPS that HAMSTER down.
Ok, the final boss of SoT is tough but a tank with a decent healer should have no problem. Just soloed the whole thing and only used health stones on boss fight. For solo the trick is to circle him to the left as the daggers attack is to our right. Took direct hits from him and survived.
For the record, 20.26k Il Paladin tank. My buffs were Potion of heroism, superior potion of force, anniversary ham, gift of awareness, and chult chain(forget what the buff was).
stats: actual with buffs** scaled with buffs Power 68.5k 58.8k ArP 60.6k 60k defense 83k 71k crit 41.9k 48.8k* Crit AV 50.2k 55.4k* Acc 39.6k 47k* Deflect 64.7k 65.7k* CA 47.6k 52.8k* Aware 47.6k 49k* HP 467k 354.9k * assuming this is from buffs. ** no sure if that includes the chain
SoT final boss is very doable, let the tank take the agro first, heal them, and then DPS that HAMSTER down.
I don't understand why you kept as many of your stats as you did in there, mine are more than halved (106k HP down from 287k HP, 34k power down from 68k power, ~14k defense down from 51k defense) as a DPS build Barbarian.
And Garakas is still in direct opposition to their stated intent with ALL these changes of "removing the binary meta of either being at full health, or being dead" because he absolutely can and will 1-shot non-tanks, even if they're vastly overgeared for the instance (as I demonstrated by getting 1-shot by him as a 20k ilvl).
I should also mention that Garakas' chamber is scaled a little bit lower than the rest of the instance. At the starting campfire I have 117k HP, 49.6k power, and 39.8k defense.
Scaling is broken, it’s effect and the stats you get feel entirely random, and can change wildly between locations in the same dungeon!
The “binary state” goal doesn’t mean bosses cannot one shot careless squishy toons, otherwise bosses will never present a serious threat to parties
I think we're just disagreeing on what degree of carelessness should be punished by death. The fact is, Dancing Flames telegraphs less than a lot of much weaker attacks- it doesn't LOOK like a tankbuster, but it sure ACTS like one. People who've done the instance dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of times can and will make use of his patterns to get through, but it's very punishing on new tanks because the game teaches them, up to that point, that really big, hard-hitting attacks are telegraphed by either a zone on the ground, a white glow (think heavy shield-fighter mobs) or a long, exaggerated windup (ogres, eyes of Gruumsh, Frost Giants, etc).
Garakas' animation for Dancing Flames is quick and fluid, which would be fine for an autoattack, but is definitely miscalibrated for how hard the ability actually hits.
Or are you saying he actually telegraphs it, now? I haven't run the instance since I got back (someone moved all the ilevel goalposts on me), so it's possible that I've missed an important change in that fight.
Garakas' animation for Dancing Flames is quick and fluid, which would be fine for an autoattack, but is definitely miscalibrated for how hard the ability actually hits.
Or are you saying he actually telegraphs it, now? I haven't run the instance since I got back (someone moved all the ilevel goalposts on me), so it's possible that I've missed an important change in that fight.
He stands there, glows red, then does the attack. It’s very easy to see coming. (I had to learn the pattern on Preview, on Live I just Templar’s and forget he has attacks largely...)
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Garakas' animation for Dancing Flames is quick and fluid, which would be fine for an autoattack, but is definitely miscalibrated for how hard the ability actually hits.
Or are you saying he actually telegraphs it, now? I haven't run the instance since I got back (someone moved all the ilevel goalposts on me), so it's possible that I've missed an important change in that fight.
He stands there, glows red, then does the attack. It’s very easy to see coming. (I had to learn the pattern on Preview, on Live I just Templar’s and forget he has attacks largely...)
Ah. Back in the day, he just sorta casually reached into his armpit, then murdered you.
So a friend and I wanted to try Kessel last night. Level 70 arbiter and ranger. We private queued in just the two of us to mess around with stats and get a feel for difficulty. We were not specifically trying to complete the dungeon, just using it for a difficult level 70 zone to mess around in. We were wearing EE gear with no enchantments except weapon and armor to start intending to add enchantments as we went to try to figure out what stats made a difference. After about 30 minutes of messing around and getting through about half the mobs, we decided we wanted to grab the undermountain gear from neverember and try again, to see the difference it would make. We incidentally leveled to 71 in the mission to grab the gear. Put the gear on with the included enchantments, queued back in and got slaughtered by the first mob. We were pretty confused, so we sat at the campfire for a few minutes looking at things. Our stats were lower than our first time in the dungeon, by about 10k each. We made some power adjustments, got through the first mob. I died out in the second mob. On my way to catch up for the third mob my friend noticed my stats were another 10k lower. We looked after the third mob at his stats and they were too. We looked again in the room with the two frost golems and our stats were another 10k lower. Not only were my stats 30k lower than before we started, they were lower than our initial experience in the dungeon despite having increased them dramatically. AND they got lower the further into the dungeon we went.
So a friend and I wanted to try Kessel last night. Level 70 arbiter and ranger. We private queued in just the two of us to mess around with stats and get a feel for difficulty. We were not specifically trying to complete the dungeon, just using it for a difficult level 70 zone to mess around in. We were wearing EE gear with no enchantments except weapon and armor to start intending to add enchantments as we went to try to figure out what stats made a difference. After about 30 minutes of messing around and getting through about half the mobs, we decided we wanted to grab the undermountain gear from neverember and try again, to see the difference it would make. We incidentally leveled to 71 in the mission to grab the gear. Put the gear on with the included enchantments, queued back in and got slaughtered by the first mob. We were pretty confused, so we sat at the campfire for a few minutes looking at things. Our stats were lower than our first time in the dungeon, by about 10k each. We made some power adjustments, got through the first mob. I died out in the second mob. On my way to catch up for the third mob my friend noticed my stats were another 10k lower. We looked after the third mob at his stats and they were too. We looked again in the room with the two frost golems and our stats were another 10k lower. Not only were my stats 30k lower than before we started, they were lower than our initial experience in the dungeon despite having increased them dramatically. AND they got lower the further into the dungeon we went.
yep the new Scaling sistem seems to try to make an LV 70+ player in a Lv70 of the same GS proportion... the system doesnts take situation like yours in cont, or the fact that is much easyer to be an "top player" in lower levels, i know i'm repeating myself, and i'm not trying to but the system needs to have a Top GS for each area and sclale down all players to that max level, i understand that this could hurt the income in some manner since people will not feel the need to increase the gear/enchants since they are scaled down to a limit in old areas, but the only way to fix this is to have more LV80 zones... and with the actual proportional calling theres really no reason to get back to those areas we will need to chose the place that have the "better scaling for us" and will be locked in "faster content for AD" again like we where in EE mod...
So a friend and I wanted to try Kessel last night. Level 70 arbiter and ranger. We private queued in just the two of us to mess around with stats and get a feel for difficulty. We were not specifically trying to complete the dungeon, just using it for a difficult level 70 zone to mess around in. We were wearing EE gear with no enchantments except weapon and armor to start intending to add enchantments as we went to try to figure out what stats made a difference. After about 30 minutes of messing around and getting through about half the mobs, we decided we wanted to grab the undermountain gear from neverember and try again, to see the difference it would make. We incidentally leveled to 71 in the mission to grab the gear. Put the gear on with the included enchantments, queued back in and got slaughtered by the first mob. We were pretty confused, so we sat at the campfire for a few minutes looking at things. Our stats were lower than our first time in the dungeon, by about 10k each. We made some power adjustments, got through the first mob. I died out in the second mob. On my way to catch up for the third mob my friend noticed my stats were another 10k lower. We looked after the third mob at his stats and they were too. We looked again in the room with the two frost golems and our stats were another 10k lower. Not only were my stats 30k lower than before we started, they were lower than our initial experience in the dungeon despite having increased them dramatically. AND they got lower the further into the dungeon we went.
yep the new Scaling sistem seems to try to make an LV 70+ player in a Lv70 of the same GS proportion... the system doesnts take situation like yours in cont, or the fact that is much easyer to be an "top player" in lower levels, i know i'm repeating myself, and i'm not trying to but the system needs to have a Top GS for each area and sclale down all players to that max level, i understand that this could hurt the income in some manner since people will not feel the need to increase the gear/enchants since they are scaled down to a limit in old areas, but the only way to fix this is to have more LV80 zones... and with the actual proportional calling theres really no reason to get back to those areas we will need to chose the place that have the "better scaling for us" and will be locked in "faster content for AD" again like we where in EE mod...
No, it doesn't make it in the same proportion, because after getting better gear and increasing my stats by more than 20k, I was scaled down to lower stats than my pretty much ungeared 70. Which then got progressively lower as we went further through the dungeon. I don't know exactly how the scaling is supposed to work, but giving me lower stats than an empty 70 cannot be right.
The scaling mechanic by level used in mod 16 ATM is horrible, scaling by item level is just as bad. Instead, simply enforce maximum allowed stats for each zone or dungeon. This is a better system for the long term of the game.
Using FBI as an example max enchantment when that content launched as R12. Using that along with the stats from the Relic Weapons and Gear the devs can than determine allowed stats for FBI. Same can be applied to MSPC, T9, CoDG, CR, etc...
This would help ease some of the tension that is resting on the devs shoulders about how hard or easy content is. It would also let players still see some progression in older content for their characters.
That is my solution to scaling. It isn't perfect but IMO it is better than what is in mod 16 now.
Second critter group in Malabog Castle (the red had gnomes) deal very very heavy damage, onehit with over 500K. And the scaling is a problem too, the player has no orientation if you where in the beginning scaled with other stats as when fight against critters or bosses. When saling is needed, then with a clearly explained and calculatable result. If we were in "old" Dungeons with lvl 73 or lvl 74 critters then we have to be also lvl 73/74 scaled, not lvl 70. Everyone has to be scaled to stats clearly better (not much, but better) then original lvl of zone if downscaled. Otherwise there is no need to progress.
The scaling mechanic by level used in mod 16 ATM is horrible, scaling by item level is just as bad. Instead, simply enforce maximum allowed stats for each zone or dungeon. This is a better system for the long term of the game.
Using FBI as an example max enchantment when that content launched as R12. Using that along with the stats from the Relic Weapons and Gear the devs can than determine allowed stats for FBI. Same can be applied to MSPC, T9, CoDG, CR, etc...
This would help ease some of the tension that is resting on the devs shoulders about how hard or easy content is. It would also let players still see some progression in older content for their characters.
That is my solution to scaling. It isn't perfect but IMO it is better than what is in mod 16 now.
@noworries#8859@asterdahl This is... probably your best option. Realistically, while there's a lot of content in Undermountain, level 80 content still won't be expansive enough to constitute a "new endgame," so the old endgame content has to be playable.
I can't even remotely envision what the scaling code probably looks like, and I won't pretend I can do your job better than you can, but I do think that a scaling "floor" of some multiplier of the "minimum" ilevel for the content(which we know is kinda lowball for most content in the interest of accessibility), where it won't scale you below that point, and if any of your stats are already below that benchmark template, it just doesn't touch them, would do a lot for keeping older content accessible.
Honestly, I think even if every level 80 of a given class and paragon got slapped with a template the moment they walked into old content, as long as boons were applied on top of that, I don't think we'd complain too hard, provided that the template was powerful enough to do the content. I'm not saying I'm onboard with level 80's just steamrolling old group content; I'd be fine if the Castle Never Solo Run was largely a thing of the past, but two or 3 80's should be able to clear any level 70 5man content, even being scaled down.
Also, forgot to mention earlier, the Mantol Derith arc Chapter 2 where you have to kill the fire cultists and Giants. Some of the mobs aren't right. One of the Giants spawned at level 65. Most of the other stuff was 60. Some of it was 61-62. It didn't help that I was "scaled" and everything stomped way harder than it should, but even if I hadn't been that's a weird distribution. And the one giant at 65 was just ... awful.
If scaling cannot be fixed to provide steady, predictable stats that maintain character effectiveness it should be removed.
I realise that long term, scaling is an important part of game development and longevity, but scaling should not be making players less effective. So it should be removed until it works, better to launch with players having an easy time for a few months than to break the experience with by far the most buggy content in the game.
All level 70 dungeons should be raised to 80. All existing dungeons should have enemy stats that fit between 1k above level 80 monsters and 1k (at most) below LotMM.
The only player stats that should be adjusted by scaling are Weapon Damage, Hit Points and Power. They should be lowered by a percentage based on your level vs the level you are playing in. (Eg you are level 80 in a level 70 zone you should have 87.5% of the Power, Weapon Damage and Hit Points you have in a level 80 zone). This is because the maximum effect you can have from any other stat is 100%, and doing this rewards players for having worked for better gear and gained levels. (A recurring complaint is feeling less effective at lower levels.) This change’s value should be reported as a long debuff while it applies.
This also makes it better for players when they go back and do old campaigns for boons, and helps address the complaints in the Boons thread that the work (or money) required to get Boons isn’t viable or worthwhile due to the way scaling currently punishes you for having improved (aside from the perception Boons are not worthwhile).
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Tried Lair of the Mad Wizard with a Fighter Tank, IL about 22k. Had no issues until meeting the first shadow. That's fine.
Tried CN and had no chance beating the monsters of the very first encounter. Did almost no damage but got hit for insane amounts (400k hits before DR).
It was mentioned in the Paladin thread so I checked:
Initial demon encounter in CN: [Combat (Self)] Glabrezu deals 281778 (348000) Physical Damage to you with Pincer. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Relentless Avenger deals 68502 Radiant Damage to Glabrezu. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 3083 Arcane Damage to Glabrezu. [Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 151095 damage from Glabrezu's Pincer. [Combat (Self)] Glabrezu deals 122229 (348000) Physical Damage to you with Pincer.
Absolutely not performing as expected for a level 70.
This bug looks like the monster is hitting me like I'm level 80 (my actual level and gear) and I'm defending like a level 70 (my scaled level and gear).
I had the some experience with a Fighter Tank, level 80, item level about 22k.
The scaling mechanic by level used in mod 16 ATM is horrible, scaling by item level is just as bad. Instead, simply enforce maximum allowed stats for each zone or dungeon. This is a better system for the long term of the game.
Using FBI as an example max enchantment when that content launched as R12. Using that along with the stats from the Relic Weapons and Gear the devs can than determine allowed stats for FBI. Same can be applied to MSPC, T9, CoDG, CR, etc...
This would help ease some of the tension that is resting on the devs shoulders about how hard or easy content is. It would also let players still see some progression in older content for their characters.
That is my solution to scaling. It isn't perfect but IMO it is better than what is in mod 16 now.
@noworries#8859@asterdahl This is... probably your best option. Realistically, while there's a lot of content in Undermountain, level 80 content still won't be expansive enough to constitute a "new endgame," so the old endgame content has to be playable.
I can't even remotely envision what the scaling code probably looks like, and I won't pretend I can do your job better than you can, but I do think that a scaling "floor" of some multiplier of the "minimum" ilevel for the content(which we know is kinda lowball for most content in the interest of accessibility), where it won't scale you below that point, and if any of your stats are already below that benchmark template, it just doesn't touch them, would do a lot for keeping older content accessible.
Honestly, I think even if every level 80 of a given class and paragon got slapped with a template the moment they walked into old content, as long as boons were applied on top of that, I don't think we'd complain too hard, provided that the template was powerful enough to do the content. I'm not saying I'm onboard with level 80's just steamrolling old group content; I'd be fine if the Castle Never Solo Run was largely a thing of the past, but two or 3 80's should be able to clear any level 70 5man content, even being scaled down.
This could work both ways as well. If a player goes into a zone where there stats are not up to snuff, the devs could give these players a slight boost.
I have seen this done in DCUO for their seasonal and PVP. It wasn't a perfect solution but it worked for the most part.
The scaling mechanic by level used in mod 16 ATM is horrible, scaling by item level is just as bad. Instead, simply enforce maximum allowed stats for each zone or dungeon. This is a better system for the long term of the game.
Using FBI as an example max enchantment when that content launched as R12. Using that along with the stats from the Relic Weapons and Gear the devs can than determine allowed stats for FBI. Same can be applied to MSPC, T9, CoDG, CR, etc...
This would help ease some of the tension that is resting on the devs shoulders about how hard or easy content is. It would also let players still see some progression in older content for their characters.
That is my solution to scaling. It isn't perfect but IMO it is better than what is in mod 16 now.
@noworries#8859@asterdahl This is... probably your best option. Realistically, while there's a lot of content in Undermountain, level 80 content still won't be expansive enough to constitute a "new endgame," so the old endgame content has to be playable.
I can't even remotely envision what the scaling code probably looks like, and I won't pretend I can do your job better than you can, but I do think that a scaling "floor" of some multiplier of the "minimum" ilevel for the content(which we know is kinda lowball for most content in the interest of accessibility), where it won't scale you below that point, and if any of your stats are already below that benchmark template, it just doesn't touch them, would do a lot for keeping older content accessible.
Honestly, I think even if every level 80 of a given class and paragon got slapped with a template the moment they walked into old content, as long as boons were applied on top of that, I don't think we'd complain too hard, provided that the template was powerful enough to do the content. I'm not saying I'm onboard with level 80's just steamrolling old group content; I'd be fine if the Castle Never Solo Run was largely a thing of the past, but two or 3 80's should be able to clear any level 70 5man content, even being scaled down.
This could work both ways as well. If a player goes into a zone where there stats are not up to snuff, the devs could give these players a slight boost.
I have seen this done in DCUO for their seasonal and PVP. It wasn't a perfect solution but it worked for the most part.
True, although I can imagine the whining from the BiS players about 'welfare scaling' or some HAMSTER like that.
The scaling mechanic by level used in mod 16 ATM is horrible, scaling by item level is just as bad. Instead, simply enforce maximum allowed stats for each zone or dungeon. This is a better system for the long term of the game.
Using FBI as an example max enchantment when that content launched as R12. Using that along with the stats from the Relic Weapons and Gear the devs can than determine allowed stats for FBI. Same can be applied to MSPC, T9, CoDG, CR, etc...
This would help ease some of the tension that is resting on the devs shoulders about how hard or easy content is. It would also let players still see some progression in older content for their characters.
That is my solution to scaling. It isn't perfect but IMO it is better than what is in mod 16 now.
@noworries#8859@asterdahl This is... probably your best option. Realistically, while there's a lot of content in Undermountain, level 80 content still won't be expansive enough to constitute a "new endgame," so the old endgame content has to be playable.
I can't even remotely envision what the scaling code probably looks like, and I won't pretend I can do your job better than you can, but I do think that a scaling "floor" of some multiplier of the "minimum" ilevel for the content(which we know is kinda lowball for most content in the interest of accessibility), where it won't scale you below that point, and if any of your stats are already below that benchmark template, it just doesn't touch them, would do a lot for keeping older content accessible.
Honestly, I think even if every level 80 of a given class and paragon got slapped with a template the moment they walked into old content, as long as boons were applied on top of that, I don't think we'd complain too hard, provided that the template was powerful enough to do the content. I'm not saying I'm onboard with level 80's just steamrolling old group content; I'd be fine if the Castle Never Solo Run was largely a thing of the past, but two or 3 80's should be able to clear any level 70 5man content, even being scaled down.
This could work both ways as well. If a player goes into a zone where there stats are not up to snuff, the devs could give these players a slight boost.
I have seen this done in DCUO for their seasonal and PVP. It wasn't a perfect solution but it worked for the most part.
True, although I can imagine the whining from the BiS players about 'welfare scaling' or some HAMSTER like that.
You can always imagine the whining from bis players about content,
some exemles you can find really fast on last 2 mods forun: -> "is to hard and not rewarding" vs "it to easy and not fun", _> "there's no new armor this mod ? i dont feel motivated" vs "new mod will make our gear useless again!" vs "new armor is not better than last mod hunt's i dont feel motivaded to play this mod"
Same can be said for any option on scaling. This system even if working 100% would lead to "it deny our progress, we shoudnt be scaled at all" The limit to stats on instance will be a problem for some Players "it deny our progress, we shoudnt be scaled at all" Removing the scaling system would lead to "there no Lv 80 content, is all to easy" Moving LV 70 to 80 "is a rat weel we are farming to get to the sema place we where before (mod6 comments common" The lower level Buff can lead to "Is a gift to lazy players" but not placing gives us the common "dont want to carry newbies"
In the end i belive that this fixed Min and Max stats have some really good points: 1-) You can have that min and max stats placed on queue text, ad map links so no secret stats 2-) No floating stats inside small instances like we have now (bug or not is happening a lot) 3-) Help starter and solve (or at least help with) the trivialized content problem. 4-) MUCH easyer to implement and balance than floating stats.
Ps.: i dont PVP so i can be 100% wrong now, but i think the Max Stat could even be placed there creating some diferent queues with diferent Max stats...
Again; sorry for any mistake, my english is self taught...
L77 Barbie equipped with legendary undermountain greatsword scaled to L74 in wyllowwood expedition. The weapon is scaled to iL 1 with 10-13 damage range. +1 combined rating, +10 power, +2 crit and acc. Expedition impossible scaled as such.
Addendum: It did not unscale after leaving the expedition. We replaced it with a training sword until he hit 80 and was able to get a new weapon.
So to say that a level 80 character with 300,000 Hit Points, "Unparalled Enchantments" and Legendary gear, Legendary companions, 15 mythic artifacts or more, couldn't take out a level 70 Orcus, is absurd to me, to say the least.
It makes sense from a gameplay standpoint. They took away lifesteal to make healers necessary, that means it's just normal you can't solo CN. You need at least someone to heal you.
There's no really choice here: we have now very little content that is worth farming because all the rest is too easy. If scaling makes CN as difficult as TONG and both (almost) as difficult as the lastest dungeon, they'll be able to add meaningful rewards back to CN and keep TONG a rewarding dungeon.
Face it: if you can easily solo it, it can't have any decent reward. I'd rather have a lot of almost equally rewarding dungeons rather than just being forced to run the one introduced in the last mod over and over.
Difficulty and rewards are tightly coupled.
Do you really think they will give you better rewards? They are going to make it to where the dungeon takes 45 minutes to an hour to complete it and give you how much more to compensate 4x longer runs? Nothing in the game takes that long. The enjoyment of the game for me is running content and being able to do it in a short period of time. It allows me to say "hey, I want to run a short CN/ETOS/etc... and have enough time to do it so why not". Now, I have to more or less clear my calendar just so I can finish 1 event. I might have been able to take a 15 minute break in between dungeons if I needed to which I now don't get to do that. My expectation with the rewards should be a guaranteed 50k to 75k AD worth of either items or rAD for completing it. This is due to the fact that I am now going down to where I might run 5 to 7 dungeons a week... That is just utter HAMSTER. Time is the most important part of my experience I place into a game. I prefer running multiple small events over running a few longer ones. Even if that means that I have to run several more often to get good items from the dungeon. Rewards shouldn't be handed out which is why I prefer the bad odds and being able to run it over and over quickly over the slightly better odds and running a few times a week.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
@drumom88 so your saying your DPS needs a tank to eat the big hits?
Because my 20032iL Sentinel has 293k HP in eSoT, and can eat that daggers attack with either her shield or rage.
Perhaps the problem isn’t the damage the boss is doing?
The barbarian is also a tank... If your level 80 your scaled into that content and pretty aggressively which is the problem one. The players that aren't scaled at all is a level 70 in that content which is what people are complaining about since the scaling is so messed up to where a level 80 now performs like a level 65 in that content.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Ok, the final boss of SoT is tough but a tank with a decent healer should have no problem. Just soloed the whole thing and only used health stones on boss fight. For solo the trick is to circle him to the left as the daggers attack is to our right. Took direct hits from him and survived.
For the record, 20.26k Il Paladin tank. My buffs were Potion of heroism, superior potion of force, anniversary ham, gift of awareness, and chult chain(forget what the buff was).
stats: actual with buffs** scaled with buffs Power 68.5k 58.8k ArP 60.6k 60k defense 83k 71k crit 41.9k 48.8k* Crit AV 50.2k 55.4k* Acc 39.6k 47k* Deflect 64.7k 65.7k* CA 47.6k 52.8k* Aware 47.6k 49k* HP 467k 354.9k * assuming this is from buffs. ** no sure if that includes the chain
SoT final boss is very doable, let the tank take the agro first, heal them, and then DPS that HAMSTER down.
Your testing should be without any buffs on you. That is what most players do in all content. The end game should be the only place you need buffs to complete.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Garakas' animation for Dancing Flames is quick and fluid, which would be fine for an autoattack, but is definitely miscalibrated for how hard the ability actually hits.
Or are you saying he actually telegraphs it, now? I haven't run the instance since I got back (someone moved all the ilevel goalposts on me), so it's possible that I've missed an important change in that fight.
He stands there, glows red, then does the attack. It’s very easy to see coming. (I had to learn the pattern on Preview, on Live I just Templar’s and forget he has attacks largely...)
I'm still getting the "casually reaches into his armpit then brutally murders you" animation. Due to driver issues with D3D I can't have my graphics up very high so I don't get any red glow on him at all, ever.
Garakas' animation for Dancing Flames is quick and fluid, which would be fine for an autoattack, but is definitely miscalibrated for how hard the ability actually hits.
Or are you saying he actually telegraphs it, now? I haven't run the instance since I got back (someone moved all the ilevel goalposts on me), so it's possible that I've missed an important change in that fight.
He stands there, glows red, then does the attack. It’s very easy to see coming. (I had to learn the pattern on Preview, on Live I just Templar’s and forget he has attacks largely...)
I'm still getting the "casually reaches into his armpit then brutally murders you" animation. Due to driver issues with D3D I can't have my graphics up very high so I don't get any red glow on him at all, ever.
Ah I have graphics maxed, but he still stands there with his arm up before casually reaching into his arm pit.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
[Combat (Self)] Glabrezu deals 282170 (324000) Physical Damage to you with Pincer.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Shadow Demon deals 80061 (183860) Physical Damage to you with Claw.
[Combat (Self)] Barlgura deals 65689 (243000) Physical Damage to you with Bash.
Oh and then your stats in CN are worse than your stats in ToS, GWD, and CC....
They look the same when you get in, but make it to the first campfire (by being tricksie) and viola your actual stats are revealed...
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
For the record, 20.26k Il Paladin tank. My buffs were Potion of heroism, superior potion of force, anniversary ham, gift of awareness, and chult chain(forget what the buff was).
stats: actual with buffs** scaled with buffs
Power 68.5k 58.8k
ArP 60.6k 60k
defense 83k 71k
crit 41.9k 48.8k*
Crit AV 50.2k 55.4k*
Acc 39.6k 47k*
Deflect 64.7k 65.7k*
CA 47.6k 52.8k*
Aware 47.6k 49k*
HP 467k 354.9k
* assuming this is from buffs.
** no sure if that includes the chain
SoT final boss is very doable, let the tank take the agro first, heal them, and then DPS that HAMSTER down.
And Garakas is still in direct opposition to their stated intent with ALL these changes of "removing the binary meta of either being at full health, or being dead" because he absolutely can and will 1-shot non-tanks, even if they're vastly overgeared for the instance (as I demonstrated by getting 1-shot by him as a 20k ilvl).
I should also mention that Garakas' chamber is scaled a little bit lower than the rest of the instance. At the starting campfire I have 117k HP, 49.6k power, and 39.8k defense.
The “binary state” goal doesn’t mean bosses cannot one shot careless squishy toons, otherwise bosses will never present a serious threat to parties
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
People who've done the instance dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of times can and will make use of his patterns to get through, but it's very punishing on new tanks because the game teaches them, up to that point, that really big, hard-hitting attacks are telegraphed by either a zone on the ground, a white glow (think heavy shield-fighter mobs) or a long, exaggerated windup (ogres, eyes of Gruumsh, Frost Giants, etc).
Garakas' animation for Dancing Flames is quick and fluid, which would be fine for an autoattack, but is definitely miscalibrated for how hard the ability actually hits.
Or are you saying he actually telegraphs it, now? I haven't run the instance since I got back (someone moved all the ilevel goalposts on me), so it's possible that I've missed an important change in that fight.
(I had to learn the pattern on Preview, on Live I just Templar’s and forget he has attacks largely...)
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
the system doesnts take situation like yours in cont, or the fact that is much easyer to be an "top player" in lower levels, i know i'm repeating myself, and i'm not trying to but the system needs to have a Top GS for each area and sclale down all players to that max level, i understand that this could hurt the income in some manner since people will not feel the need to increase the gear/enchants since they are scaled down to a limit in old areas, but the only way to fix this is to have more LV80 zones... and with the actual proportional calling theres really no reason to get back to those areas we will need to chose the place that have the "better scaling for us" and will be locked in "faster content for AD" again like we where in EE mod...
Using FBI as an example max enchantment when that content launched as R12. Using that along with the stats from the Relic Weapons and Gear the devs can than determine allowed stats for FBI. Same can be applied to MSPC, T9, CoDG, CR, etc...
This would help ease some of the tension that is resting on the devs shoulders about how hard or easy content is. It would also let players still see some progression in older content for their characters.
That is my solution to scaling. It isn't perfect but IMO it is better than what is in mod 16 now.
And the scaling is a problem too, the player has no orientation if you where in the beginning scaled with other stats as when fight against critters or bosses.
When saling is needed, then with a clearly explained and calculatable result.
If we were in "old" Dungeons with lvl 73 or lvl 74 critters then we have to be also lvl 73/74 scaled, not lvl 70. Everyone has to be scaled to stats clearly better (not much, but better) then original lvl of zone if downscaled. Otherwise there is no need to progress.
I can't even remotely envision what the scaling code probably looks like, and I won't pretend I can do your job better than you can, but I do think that a scaling "floor" of some multiplier of the "minimum" ilevel for the content(which we know is kinda lowball for most content in the interest of accessibility), where it won't scale you below that point, and if any of your stats are already below that benchmark template, it just doesn't touch them, would do a lot for keeping older content accessible.
Honestly, I think even if every level 80 of a given class and paragon got slapped with a template the moment they walked into old content, as long as boons were applied on top of that, I don't think we'd complain too hard, provided that the template was powerful enough to do the content. I'm not saying I'm onboard with level 80's just steamrolling old group content; I'd be fine if the Castle Never Solo Run was largely a thing of the past, but two or 3 80's should be able to clear any level 70 5man content, even being scaled down.
I realise that long term, scaling is an important part of game development and longevity, but scaling should not be making players less effective. So it should be removed until it works, better to launch with players having an easy time for a few months than to break the experience with by far the most buggy content in the game.
All level 70 dungeons should be raised to 80.
All existing dungeons should have enemy stats that fit between 1k above level 80 monsters and 1k (at most) below LotMM.
The only player stats that should be adjusted by scaling are Weapon Damage, Hit Points and Power. They should be lowered by a percentage based on your level vs the level you are playing in. (Eg you are level 80 in a level 70 zone you should have 87.5% of the Power, Weapon Damage and Hit Points you have in a level 80 zone). This is because the maximum effect you can have from any other stat is 100%, and doing this rewards players for having worked for better gear and gained levels. (A recurring complaint is feeling less effective at lower levels.)
This change’s value should be reported as a long debuff while it applies.
This also makes it better for players when they go back and do old campaigns for boons, and helps address the complaints in the Boons thread that the work (or money) required to get Boons isn’t viable or worthwhile due to the way scaling currently punishes you for having improved (aside from the perception Boons are not worthwhile).
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Tried CN and had no chance beating the monsters of the very first encounter. Did almost no damage but got hit for insane amounts (400k hits before DR).
Is this WAI?
I have seen this done in DCUO for their seasonal and PVP. It wasn't a perfect solution but it worked for the most part.
some exemles you can find really fast on last 2 mods forun:
-> "is to hard and not rewarding" vs "it to easy and not fun",
_> "there's no new armor this mod ? i dont feel motivated" vs "new mod will make our gear useless again!" vs "new armor is not better than last mod hunt's i dont feel motivaded to play this mod"
Same can be said for any option on scaling.
This system even if working 100% would lead to "it deny our progress, we shoudnt be scaled at all"
The limit to stats on instance will be a problem for some Players "it deny our progress, we shoudnt be scaled at all"
Removing the scaling system would lead to "there no Lv 80 content, is all to easy"
Moving LV 70 to 80 "is a rat weel we are farming to get to the sema place we where before (mod6 comments common"
The lower level Buff can lead to "Is a gift to lazy players" but not placing gives us the common "dont want to carry newbies"
In the end i belive that this fixed Min and Max stats have some really good points:
1-) You can have that min and max stats placed on queue text, ad map links so no secret stats
2-) No floating stats inside small instances like we have now (bug or not is happening a lot)
3-) Help starter and solve (or at least help with) the trivialized content problem.
4-) MUCH easyer to implement and balance than floating stats.
Ps.: i dont PVP so i can be 100% wrong now, but i think the Max Stat could even be placed there creating some diferent queues with diferent Max stats...
Again; sorry for any mistake, my english is self taught...
Addendum: It did not unscale after leaving the expedition. We replaced it with a training sword until he hit 80 and was able to get a new weapon.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.