I feel this quest difficulty is kinda off for a leveling quest. Not sure if its intended but I m facing like 10-20 mob after I destroy the totem. Although the dragon did swoop in to help but he is of little use. Most of his aoe are slow and the agro is always on me. Even when I stealth and the dragon hit them with aoe, the agro is still on me. When I tried to fight them, they seem to able to chain root me to a spot while other mob maul me to death. My whole fight are just a marry-go-round around the dragon hoping that his aoe could pick them off by chance. I hope the fight isn't suppose to be this way. It took me like 40min to finish the whole quest.
Next is the end fight with Actura. As i approach and before i could see Actura, an army of more than 30 mob is marching at me. I don't know how i pull the agro but it seem to march to me in a straight line and stuck upon each other. It feels like the mob in the whole map is coming at me and this time they seem to be able to see me in stealth.
Anyway, i hope this is not intended because i feel this is a next level kind of difficulty for a leveling quest.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited March 2019
Just went to do the Defending the Sword Coast, specifically the one in Pirate's Skyhold.
I got scaled down to 60, but the enemies were 81. Not a fair fight.
The 1st and 2nd boss 1 hit me anyhow, I have to dodge every attack otherwise I just die.
Mmh, that really makes me rather concerned. I guess it is safe to say that you are among the best players around. Preview also tends to attract players that are better than average and that have very good knowledge of all the content they are testing. For myself I know, that I only playtest content I know well and I usually do it on my best equipped toon (and use the free stuff from the vendor to improve it). This produces a bias in play-testing, that should be taken account by the devs, when they adjust the difficulty level.
If you have to dodge every single attack on the first two bosses in order to survive the fight, what will happen to the entry level players that just finished leveling and are queuing for their first dungeon in the intermediate queue? Entry level players might not know the mechanics of the fight. Even if they do, they make mistakes. A dungeon in the intermediate queue, e.g. the lowest difficulty after the leveling queue, should not be designed in such a way, that the first and second boss one-shots everyone that makes a single mistake. Sometimes its not even a mistake, because lag, cc from adds, missing stamina or just slow movement speed for some classes does not allow them to get out of the red fast enough.
If most parties, or parties that are just over the minimum requirements, cannot complete even the first boss, because they are one moment at full health and in the next instance dead (a situation the devs definitely wanted to avoid with MOD 16!), that will deplete the player base rather quickly. It will be an outcry when MOD 16 goes live.
It is likely not possible to design a low or mid level dungeon in such a way, that a bis-player cannot solo it, and at the same time avoiding entry-level players being constantly one-shotted. These are two mutually contradictory goals. In such a case on needs to set priorities. What is better for the long term survival of the game? a) a couple of bis-players can solo an intermediate level dungeon (taking a much longer time than in a party of five)? b) practically all entry level groups wipe (or if not the whole group wipes, the less experienced players sit in the rez circle and see the remaining experienced players do the entire work)
@motu999#9953 I will say I found eSoT noticeably harder after the patch. Any lag (beyond my normal, which is similar to thefabricant’s) or distraction and the boss wastes me.
So while it’s harder than it was last week it’s still not entirely group content.
I have soloed eToS to the final boss, but that takes a few deaths and resets to get right. More practice and that will come down, but at 20k iL that is what I expect to do with the dungeon.
Pulling the last 2 mobs of eSoT together is still an easier encounter than the first Dridar in eToS.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
As a SW Hellbringer and the removal of Pillar of Power as an option for me.I am not at all shocked with my difficulty issues or unexpected deaths. Being this class has Shadow Slip ,BOVA ,and Pillar of Power as our 3 stay alive skills and removing one of the main go to ones I use, death was to be very much expected.
I will say I found eSoT noticeably harder after the patch.
Any lag (beyond my normal, which is similar to thefabricant’s) or distraction and the boss wastes me.
So while it’s harder than it was last week it’s still not entirely group content.
The question is, group content for what IL? On live eSoT is in RIQ, with an entry IL level of 9k. This means it should be doable for a group in the range 9-11k. My experience with eSoT on live is, that many groups with 9-11k cannot kill the final boss. If it is now more difficult than on live, one might have to raise the minimum IL.
What I am saying is, you are all seeing this from a very special perspective:
- near bis IL - profound experience with the mechanics of the dungeon you playtest - profound experience with your character's strengths and weaknesses
On the other hand, sorry to say so, you are a very small group of players, that very likely does not spend much real money (any more) on the game, because you practically have everything you need. You are very likely not Cryptic's main source of (future) income. That does not mean you are useless. The game needs experienced players (same as it needs new players)
However, it is rather obvious that most people playtesting on preview and giving feedback belong to the special group just described. You also have your own specific interests (open and hidden). For instance, you might openly say you want a challenge in the low-intermediate level dungeons. What you are not saying is, that you do not care much about the inexperienced players (in fact, if its a challenge for you, its likely impossible for less experienced/geared player, giving you a tremendous advantage when it comes to the subject of earning AD, getting the best stuff etc.)
In any case, your feedback is valuable (its the only feedback we have). It should be taken into consideration. But if Cryptic is smart, they will realize that your feedback is biased.
The problem with "old" content is, that it is nearly impossible to achieve the two conflicting goals: - not easily soloable for bis-players - doable (with some effort) for a full group of entry level players - Furthermore, one of the main reasons for the revamp given by the Devs was, that they do not want players being in just two states: Full health or Dead. Realistically your playtesting will not lead to a general redesign of the dungeon. Due to lack of resources Cryptic will take the easy way and increase the magnitude of all attacks, to make the dungeon more challenging for you (the top IL level players). This - rather obviously - has lead to a dungeon that is even more difficult than on live. According to what you and theFabricant say, you one-shotted for every small mistake you make. The result is:
We will have exactly the situation, that was Cryptic was trying to "fix" with MOD 16: Players that queue for the easiest epic dungeons (after leveling) will experience the dungeon as a two-state affair: At (nearly) full health - or dead. Healers will not have the higher significance promised: you cannot heal someone who is dead, you cannot pre-heal when players are at full health. If the boss one-shots you, he will one-shot lesser experienced, more badly geared players two-fold (not that it matters - dead is dead).
A way out of the dilemma would be a complete redesign of the attack pattern of the bosses and adds, so that they produce more sustained damage, but at the same time the hardest hits dont take more than 50% health of a badly geared player. That would give the healers a chance to heal. Unfortunately, it is not realistic that the older content will get a complete redesign.
Realistically we will have to live with two options:
One, the major promise of the Devs for MOD 16 (healers more significant, players not just in two states: full health or dead) will not be fulfilled for the intermediate and advanced dungeons, e.g. the content played most on live. In fact, it will be worse than on live. People will rage, they will call out Cryptic for "lying", they will quit. I would wish to avoid this.
The alternative is, that old content will remain doable for most players queuing for it, healers will be more significant, one-shotting does not happen. But then the old content will be soloable (taking more time) for the near bis-players.
What I am saying is, you are all seeing this from a very special perspective:
- near bis IL - profound experience with the mechanics of the dungeon you playtest - profound experience with your character's strengths and weaknesses
The iL for the dungeon is 7k, when you reach 70 you get the quest to start Undermountain and the gear that Neverember gives you will put you well over 7k.
Solo Paladin to the door of the boss, 2 deaths because my mount is too slow to run past anything and so I had to deal with the largest pulls (and I dropped shield at the wrong time once).
The armor, weapons, neck, belt, shirt, pants, and 1 ring are all from drops. The enchants are the rank 8s that Neverember gives. All the pet buffs are not full, the Bondings are Rank 8 and it has a +4 Fierce Companion gear slot only (with a rank 2 and 7 rune it it). 1 Boon point in its entirety.
The only "end game" thing about this toon is player experience and the Guild Boons.
Sure it cannot clear the last boss, but it can solo the rest of the dungeon.
Which is the point of the feedback. This character shouldn't be soloing the dungeon.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
umbraxaras lair problem try it 3 times which last very long and keresta is such a hard thing for my pally yesterday...need all my scrolls for her cause im always oneshotted - if im blocking or not (Change all what possible) - she hits like a truck threw all blocks etc. in 0,1 second. She shoot 3 balls at once in 3 various directions and everyone hits me - here is the dmg log:
[Kampf (Allein)] Keresta Delvingstone fügt Charakter mit „Umnachteter Geist“ 216447 (247780) Nekrotischer Schaden zu. [Kampf (Allein)] Keresta Delvingstone fügt Charakter mit „Umnachteter Geist“ 216447 (247780) Nekrotischer Schaden zu. [Kampf (Allein)] Keresta Delvingstone fügt Charakter mit „Umnachteter Geist“ 216447 (247780) Nekrotischer Schaden zu.
remember 3 balls in 3 directions but a one-hit at my toon - ist a 639341 hit in 0,1 second
she than follows me to campfire and the old, slowly pala cant run away - think i died more than 100 times at campfire if i can hit her and after another long, long, very Long period kill her. Maybe i think i havent kill her but my companion(s) (shadow deamon) did it cause he has accidentally a twin. They managed it at the end. The twins maybe the reason why i cant enter the endboss.
All done in new gear with over 20k il and no success today.
Pls take a look and fix it if you can. thx and regards, ObelX
What I am saying is, you are all seeing this from a very special perspective:
- near bis IL - profound experience with the mechanics of the dungeon you playtest - profound experience with your character's strengths and weaknesses
The iL for the dungeon is 7k, when you reach 70 you get the quest to start Undermountain and the gear that Neverember gives you will put you well over 7k.
Solo Paladin to the door of the boss, 2 deaths because my mount is too slow to run past anything and so I had to deal with the largest pulls (and I dropped shield at the wrong time once).
The armor, weapons, neck, belt, shirt, pants, and 1 ring are all from drops. The enchants are the rank 8s that Neverember gives. All the pet buffs are not full, the Bondings are Rank 8 and it has a +4 Fierce Companion gear slot only (with a rank 2 and 7 rune it it). 1 Boon point in its entirety.
The only "end game" thing about this toon is player experience and the Guild Boons.
Sure it cannot clear the last boss, but it can solo the rest of the dungeon.
Which is the point of the feedback. This character shouldn't be soloing the dungeon.
I can agree with it - my lower toons do much more damage and live longer if i didnt change anything- If i swap armor and reset stats they get into big trouble. Maybe the old stats or mechanics take a big role here.
I don't know whether this has been mentioned already, but I encountered a quite hard-hitting power from the 2nd boss in Tong (Withers):
[Combat (Self)] Your Barkshield Armor absorbs 29243 (24000) damage from Withers's Bigby's Forceful Hand. [Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 46673 damage from Withers's Bigby's Forceful Hand. [Combat (Self)] Withers deals 405044 (579642) Physical Damage to you with Bigby's Forceful Hand.
This involves the skill where a red circle appears around Whithers and pushes you away. I do not think it should be hitting this much. Ofcourse my block was somewhat depleted here, but I also got 1shot when I had full shield-stamina, barkshield and absolution running (running on Justicar paladin with 29k defense).
Vanrakdoom: The Assassins and Vampires are exceptionally hard hitting, as well as have very fast attacks, as well as some amount of cc. They need to be toned down in terms of overall damage and speed of attack. My level 80 Cleric is having a lot of issues soloing them.
Sure it cannot clear the last boss, but it can solo the rest of the dungeon. Which is the point of the feedback. This character shouldn't be soloing the dungeon.
If the character cannot kill the last boss, it cannot solo the dungeon, right?! Seems a bit unrealistic to assume that people are eager to fight all the mobs up to the last boss and then abandon the instance after "all the hard work", because the boss cannot be cleared. In eSoT: quitting before the last boss gives no rewards at all (except worthless drops from normal mobs).
Furthermore, it is well known in eSoT, that the path to the boss is extremely quick and easy. The only real challenge (for groups with IL-levels for which the dungeon was originally designed) is the end-boss.
So what is the relevance of your feedback? Contrary to what you are implying, you did not solo eSoT. You failed at the last boss, which is expected for a character of 12k IL. A 21k IL can solo the boss, if (s)he is careful. Not so much different from live. Even my 12.5k GWF (~15k in MOD 16) can solo the last boss on live, if she is extra careful. Its a jump and run feast, constantly sprinting out of the red. Not really fun and rather inefficient (compared to the time you can do with a 12k party). I soloed eSoT only once, not worth the effort to repeat it. In fact, as soon as I can run TONG and higher content, it becomes a total waste of time to solo old content, because the quality of the rewards is in no way comparable what I can get at TONG, CoDG and higher. And then why should I solo at all, if there is public queue?
The intent of the Devs for MOD 16 was clear:
(1) dungeon runs will not result in just two player states: "fully healed" and "dead" (2) healers will be more significant (this obviously requires that healers actually get a chance to heal, which is only possible if players will *not* get one-shotted)l
I didn't see a single dev stating, that the intent of MOD 16 is, that soloing will be made harder. In fact, it was explicitly stated that this is not the intent. To be fair, the context of that statement makes it clear, that it refers to "normal" content outside Epic dungeons. But if soloing "normal" content shall not become more difficult (according to the devs), the same will be true for dungeon runs. There is no practical way to have the same difficulty of solo play on landscape as on live, and at the same time dramatically reduce soloability of dungeon runs compared to live: The abilities, stats etc. of our toons are independent of the content they run. If we can solo landscape well on live, and if we can solo some epic dungeons well on live, the same must be true for landscape and dungeons in MOD 16.
On live practically all intermediate dungeons (RIQ) and most advanced dungeons (RAQ) can be soloed. Not by the low IL players that usually queue for this content, but by a small group of near bis players. It don't like it that much either, but it does not seem to be a problem on live: Players that can solo these dungeons usually don't do it, because they have much more rewarding things they can do. Why waste my time in an old dungeon, with rewards that are more or less useless, if I can get far better rewards that are actually meaningful in the top tier content that my near-bis toon can run?
Unless someone can point me to a post of a dev, that Cryptic also intended
(3) to remove soloability of all dungeons in all queues in MOD 16
I will assume that the high priority goals of MOD 16 are (1) and (2), as explicitly stated by the devs, and that (3) is an item on the personal agenda of some players.
Now if your personal agenda (3) were compatible with (1) and (2), I would immediately say: yes, please lets have (3) as well. Unfortunately, for reasons explained in my previous posts, I don't think it is *realistically* possible. "Realistic" means "without a complete redesign of the lower tier dungeons. Without a complete redesign, the Dev's goals (1) + (2) and your personal goal (3) are contradictory.
The low tier dungeons were originally designed for much lower IL, close to the entry level IL. And guess what, they still work as intended for players of the IL for which the dungeon was originally designed! You said it yourself, you cannot solo the last boss with your 12k IL toon, and that is entirely good so. The dungeon has not become easier for the IL levels for which it was designed!
Granted, the majority of players queuing for this dungeon tend to have a larger IL-level than when the dungeon was first introduced. So the dungeon is gradually becoming easier on average. But that is intended, because it is old content with comparably bad rewards. Nonetheless new players must run the old content and reap the bad rewards, in order to become gradually better.
If you change the difficulty, the most pronounced effect will be on the entry level players, that can only queue for the low tier dungeons. You have made their life more difficult, you have prolonged their suffering, because you wanted a higher challenge. The funny thing is, you already have this higher challenge in the high tier content, for which you are eligible. For rather selfish reason, you want that it becomes more difficult for the new players to catch up to you.
It is obvious, that you do not really care for the 12k IL players, that have no other choice than to run RIQ. You want the difficulty of the dungeon increased, despite the fact that its entry level is 7k and EVEN THOUGH YOUR 12k TOON CANNOT CLEAR THE LAST BOSS. That makes your hidden agenda rather obvious.
You are basically saying:
"Cryptic, forget what you have promised all players for MOD 16! Instead, focus on giving near-bis players a challenge in the low tier dungeons! Never mind that we seldom play them, because the really challenging content with the best rewards is at the top tiers. But if we are bored enough, we would like to have a little challenge in the old content as well. And yes, we do not care if the side effect of the little challenge is, that new players will have a harder time catching up to us."
ive noticed a definite issue with scaling since the recent update. players should not be getting one hit in the cloak tower dungeon for example.
This is a dungeon for leveling it's not even an epic dungeon. leveling dungeons should not one hit players.
<div align="center"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YH9QCXK.png" alt="" /></div></img> ▂▃▄▅▆▇█▓▒░ Drac ░▒▓█▇▆▅▄▃▂ There is supposed to be an image here, but the hamsters took it. <div align="center">AKA Draconis of Luskan</div>
Take a backseat boy. Cause now I'm driving. ~ Give it up - Elizabeth Gilies ft. Ariana Grande
RIP Foundry: On that day, when the sky fell away, our world came to an end. ~Lifelight
There is an unexpectedly large difficulty curve for brand new characters at the karzov encounter in Blacklake. Running through the rest of that encounter I got down to about 1/4th of the HP bar a couple times, but never died. Once facing Karzov I had to kick it up quite a bit (using skills from playing this class for several years, skills noobs won't have). It should be a simple fix though. I was able to beat Karzov in the first round, but dies to the final two adds, and the only reason I beat him is I went in with my Action point and used my shield somewhat effectively, and a well timed potion.
Character name is Mika Swordhand@fluffy6977, Fighter class, Level 9, TIL 107. Enemies involved are Karzov and the Recruit adds he spawns. Ratings aren't super important to this, it's not a ratings problem.
The problem is that at this point in the campaign you are tackling level 9 enemies with a level 3 weapon. To highlight the issue, here's an example of the incoming damage from the combat log:
[Combat (Self)] Karzov deals 491 (494) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack. [Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 131 damage from Recruit's Melee Attack. [Combat (Self)] Recruit gives 0 (132) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack. [Combat (Self)] Recruit deals 131 (132) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack. [Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 120 damage from Recruit's Melee Attack. [Combat (Self)] Recruit gives 0 (120) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack. [Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 164 damage from Karzov's Jab.
And here is an example of the outgoing damage:
[Combat (Self)] Your Brazen Slash deals 32 Physical Damage to Recruit. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Brazen Slash deals 50 Physical Damage to Recruit. [Combat (Self)] Your Cleave deals 8 Physical Damage to Sniper. [Combat (Self)] Your Shield Slam deals 107 Physical Damage to Sniper. [Combat (Self)] Your Earthshaker deals 464 Physical Damage to Recruit.
The issue is that with the weapon damage (45-55) of that level 3 weapon there is no way to sucessfully burn down the adds without getting overwhelmed quickly. The quest reward for killing Karzov and retrieving the crown is a level 6 weapon, which should level the playing field and make this encounter tough but still more often than not doable. Move it to be an earlier quest reward and that should take care of the issue.
I just wanted to stop in and thank everyone for their continued reports. We are looking into all of the balance issues you bring up, and as the difficulty swings around wildly, appreciate your patience. In some cases, we're adjusting a single enemy, and then the change is more precise, but often time we're adjusting whole systems or power curves, so things might suddenly feel better in one spot, and worse in another, that's why your continued feedback is so helpful and important. Thank you!
Last boss on SoT should get role in Tokio Drift movie. When he initiate his fire hand or whatever its called ( that cone AoE of his) he just slides across the arena. Not even mention that every other attack he aims at someone else. Whats the point of tank presence if despite being focus for him others are targeted.
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Other then that SoT suppose to be 8k IL dungeon, I'd like to see party with 8k that fights with that boss. I'm 14k and have to run around to stay alive, I;m a tank i should stand there and laugh at him atleast for some time and not die in 2 hits (that last hit was 110k, with stats reduction i have 140k on SoT). And its the lowest epic dungeon.
Vanrakdoom. In umbraxakar's lair,killed Keresta,talked to Lord Moonstar,but can't actually enter the lair for the final part. I try to go through the portal,it counts down from 6,but never transports me into the room. Also the difficulty is far to high on this quest. I never even die this much on an end game run . If you will make a post when this issue has been fixed I would be most grateful , I want be able to advance, until something is done. Full stop.
First of all, I apologize if this was already reported. Haven't red all the comments.
On the very last quest, elite vampires and the cult boss basically 1-shot everything. I ran it as Dreadnought GF with 300k+ HP and 50k+ defense (other defensive ratings are maxed). Still the cult boss did 300k+ dmg with almost every hit to me which I barely withstood and even died a couple of times. The elite vampires did a little less but still enough to bring me to the verge of death in 1 hit even with my shield up.
Also I was unable to enter the dragon lair no matter what I did. The issue was similar to what we've experienced with Fane of the Night Serpent back when mod 13 was released. The timer just went to 0 and nothing happened.
As a side note - enemies in a given area do inconsistent dmg and something feels a bit wrong. Haven't recorded or wrote any of that but it feels like enemies which should be easy do a lot of dmg and die harder then expected. The opposite is also true. I'll give it a bit more testing and maybe run it through ACT to make a proper list but still something to have in mind
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
edited March 2019
Not sure if this is just that combat HR is not playable solo or a difficulty thing. I took my Mod 15 15K HR into the AI Nobleman extraction quest at level 70. He was still 15K in mod 16 at level 70 (my companion equipment unequipped and I only had a couple of blues to replace them) in a level 70 mission. I simply could not beat Zeline and Rakez without using scrolls. As this encounter dies in about 5 seconds in Mod 15 this was a bit of a shock.
**edit** OK, just tried this with my similar statted barbarian, was an order of magnitude easier if not more, so seems to be a ranger issue not a difficulty one.
Post edited by minotaur2857 on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
The golems at the boreworm in Lair of the Mad Mage are hitting for exceptionally high values.
My worry is that all these people soloing dungeons with their 20k+ item level are going to make these dungeons impossible for other players. The main issue I have found is that pretty much every attack from every boss one hits you regardless of whether it is a red area or a normal AoE attack. We are in the realm of healers being pointless again because against mobs they are not really needed and against bosses you are either dead or full health. The first boss in LoL for example was hitting me anywhere from 330k-500k depending on the attack and because you "normalise" stats in a higher zone I would get way more defence, but in the lower zones I get nowhere near as much.
To give you an idea I can go into any area in vanrakdoom and stand in any group of mobs and hit harrowstorm as a healer warlock and the mobs cannot kill me before I kill them. In level 70 content my spells heal for not even 4 digit figures. I honestly think you should just do away with trying to normalise stuff as it is going to be so much time to get this right. This is at 20k item level what if someone hits level 80 at say 12k item level and then get their stats "normalised" they have no hope of surviving in lower level content. You are essentially penalising them for wanting to level up
Who honestly cares if people can walk through 2-3 year old level 70 content when they are level 80 they get nothing in terms of rewards for it. You should just concentrate on getting the new dungeon and zones in order
My worry is that all these people soloing dungeons with their 20k+ item level are going to make these dungeons impossible for other players. The main issue I have found is that pretty much every attack from every boss one hits you regardless of whether it is a red area or a normal AoE attack. We are in the realm of healers being pointless again because against mobs they are not really needed and against bosses you are either dead or full health. The first boss in LoL for example was hitting me anywhere from 330k-500k depending on the attack and because you "normalise" stats in a higher zone I would get way more defence, but in the lower zones I get nowhere near as much.
To give you an idea I can go into any area in vanrakdoom and stand in any group of mobs and hit harrowstorm as a healer warlock and the mobs cannot kill me before I kill them. In level 70 content my spells heal for not even 4 digit figures. I honestly think you should just do away with trying to normalise stuff as it is going to be so much time to get this right. This is at 20k item level what if someone hits level 80 at say 12k item level and then get their stats "normalised" they have no hope of surviving in lower level content. You are essentially penalising them for wanting to level up
Who honestly cares if people can walk through 2-3 year old level 70 content when they are level 80 they get nothing in terms of rewards for it. You should just concentrate on getting the new dungeon and zones in order
that a good ponit
If youre up to, this weekend i can join you to run with fresh toons with undermountain fre gear to see what happens and our party can place theys feedback here, we just need to grab a few more people...
but to do this the best would be if the lv 70 toon token was working on Preview, i belive is not up yet...
Further feedback on the lower-ilvl-required epic dungeons. I took my fresh off the boat lvl 70 10k ilvl pally in, in a group of similarly-geared players (an alliance test run), using the free intro-to-Undermountain gear plus a bunch of +3 companion gear (ilvl 420) and R9 bondings,which put me at ilvl 9700 due to the loss of guild boons. Nobody in the group was below 9500 ilvl, highest in the group was 11.2k ilvl, so roughly the "target" ilvl for the instances we tested.
* ESOT
First, scaling here is atrocious. In PE I'm about 27k defense and ~240k health, in the instance I'm 6500 defense and 115k health.
Couldn't get past first pack of mobs, as the tank every hit was fully depleting my block and not blocking I was losing 60-80% of my health in 1 hit. Got 1-shot twice. As the TANK.
* ELOL
Scaling didn't seem to be quite as bad as ESOT. I had ~11k defense and ~140k health.
Did better here. Cleared the small trash packs with no issues, then pulled a golem that did 300,000,000 damage with its overhead swing, whoops. Group finishes it off, I'm brought back up, we pull another golem and everyone gets out of the way of the big overhead swing. I want to test so pull a third golem we didn't actually need to kill and intentionally eat an overhead while blocking, it only did ~30k through the block but fully depleted a full block bar so not all golems are created equal. Start first boss fight and the drake rider INSTANTLY pounces into the group of us (no time to spread out) and 1-shots us all, although it just barely killed me as the tank. Reset, try again. Drake rider INSTANTLY pounces into the group of us and 1-shots us all, again just barely killing me but our DC took >1M damage from it. Reset, try again. Drake rider doesn't instantly pounce this time, it waits a solid 3 seconds and only 1-shots 1 player. Drake rider is hitting me for ~60k a swing, which is about 40% of my health here. Healer couldn't keep up and I go down after about 30 seconds, boss is ~80% health still. 10 total attempts, never got it below 75% health.
* ETOS
Scaling is even worse here than in ESOT, I had 4k defense and under 100k health.
First drow priestess 1-shot everybody in every attempt, we couldn't get past the first pack of trash.
The scaling in the lower-end epic dungeons is way too aggressive for their intended audience. Some of the boss-fight mechanics I was able to test are legacy mechanics that are now incredibly lethal with the crazy scaling. These instances, and IMO your universal scaling in general, need work.
Further feedback on the lower-ilvl-required epic dungeons. [...] * ESOT
[...] scaling here is atrocious. Couldn't get past first pack of mobs [...] Got 1-shot twice. As the TANK.
* ELOL
Scaling didn't seem to be quite as bad [...] pulled a golem that did 300,000,000 damage with its overhead swing, whoops. Start first boss fight and the drake rider INSTANTLY pounces into the group of us (no time to spread out) and 1-shots us all [...] Reset, try again. Drake rider INSTANTLY pounces into the group of us and 1-shots us all [...] Reset, try again. Drake rider doesn't instantly pounce this time, it waits a solid 3 seconds and only 1-shots 1 player. Drake rider is hitting me for ~60k a swing, which is about 40% of my health here. Healer couldn't keep up and I go down after about 30 seconds, boss is ~80% health still. 10 total attempts, never got it below 75% health.
* ETOS
Scaling is even worse here [...] First drow priestess 1-shot everybody in every attempt, we couldn't get past the first pack of trash.
The scaling in the lower-end epic dungeons is way too aggressive for their intended audience. Some of the boss-fight mechanics I was able to test are legacy mechanics that are now incredibly lethal with the crazy scaling. These instances, and IMO your universal scaling in general, need work.
This is exactly what I predicted in various posts in this thread. The dungeons have become unplayable for the audience for which they are intended. Why? 20k+ IL players complained that some low tier dungeons were "soloable and no challenge" for them. Although I understand that it would be nice - from their point of view - to have a challenge in the low tier content (that they likely seldom play), they did not take into account, what havoc their feedback will wreck: The Devs reacted to their complaints and - rather obviously - increased the overall damage of the attacks of bosses and mobs.
Already on live one can get one-shotted in these dungeons.
If Cryptic then - reduces the overall damage all players can do (an intended consequence of the class changes and rebalancing efforts of MOD 16), - eliminates self-healing through life-steal (to make healers "more meaningful" in MOD 16) - reduces hitpoints and defense of the low IL players via scaling - increases the overall damage of bosses and mobs
it is rather predicable what will happen: Even more one-shots, healers not even having a chance to heal.
I can only hope, that the lessons have been learned and that we will have playable low tier content for those players that actually must run this content, because their low IL does not give them any other options.
Just went to do the Defending the Sword Coast, specifically the one in Pirate's Skyhold.
I got scaled down to 60, but the enemies were 81. Not a fair fight.
I noticed the damage you did to the "skirmisher" and what it is doing to you, the lowest damage you did was "1" and the highest was "87", that is extremely low, it's almost laughable. I understand the devs are still adjusting things but hopefully they get everything done before it hits live or there's no point in trying to go back to any of the older zones
That is a direct result of the difference on levels. Any time you are in combat with a mob 3 or more levels higher than yourself, the damage you do is greatly reduced. It starts at 25% and gets progressively worse as the difference increases.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
My worry is that all these people soloing dungeons with their 20k+ item level are going to make these dungeons impossible for other players. The main issue I have found is that pretty much every attack from every boss one hits you regardless of whether it is a red area or a normal AoE attack. We are in the realm of healers being pointless again because against mobs they are not really needed and against bosses you are either dead or full health. The first boss in LoL for example was hitting me anywhere from 330k-500k depending on the attack and because you "normalise" stats in a higher zone I would get way more defence, but in the lower zones I get nowhere near as much.
To give you an idea I can go into any area in vanrakdoom and stand in any group of mobs and hit harrowstorm as a healer warlock and the mobs cannot kill me before I kill them. In level 70 content my spells heal for not even 4 digit figures. I honestly think you should just do away with trying to normalise stuff as it is going to be so much time to get this right. This is at 20k item level what if someone hits level 80 at say 12k item level and then get their stats "normalised" they have no hope of surviving in lower level content. You are essentially penalising them for wanting to level up
Who honestly cares if people can walk through 2-3 year old level 70 content when they are level 80 they get nothing in terms of rewards for it. You should just concentrate on getting the new dungeon and zones in order
on lower level content :
other games fixed that boosting dmg on lower level mobs (10 or less) by huge % (usually crit severity and crit chance )
a guy with 20k+ ilvl vs a fresh max lvl yeah there is huge diff , and the 20k will still solo it if he wants it , punishing lower ilvls because overgeared chars are "op" isnt the way to go
[Combat (Self)] Your Critical Defense absorbs 2954 damage from Keresta Delvingstone's Shadow Claw. [Combat (Self)] Your Critical Defense absorbs 2954 damage from Keresta Delvingstone's Shadow Claw. [Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable absorbs 295359 damage from Keresta Delvingstone's Shadow Claw. [Combat (Self)] Keresta Delvingstone deals 302415 (161596) Necrotic Damage to you with Shadow Claw.
Character: Obsidian Sword
That seems a little much damage for Keresta...
Oh and for giggles she has been repeating it. No Unstoppable this time: [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Keresta Delvingstone deals 645232 (161596) Necrotic Damage to you with Shadow Claw.
With block up: [Combat (Self)] Keresta Delvingstone deals 495168 (161596) Necrotic Damage to you with Shadow Claw.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Necessary Information Please make every effort to include the information listed in this section, without it, we can't do much to investigate your issue. Guardian@ragnarz2 Paladin 80 21k+ Kessel Final boss fight A brief description of what happened. Kessel+2 beholders. The combination of high TTK, red circles from multiple sources, large area of separation between mobs and periodic stun made it impossible to hold agro on all 3 mobs. Everyone dies. Sometimes we made it to golem spawning but still everyone dies. Combination of Paladin agro tools. Inability to focus fire. Players engaging from different ranges creating a chase condition. Basically a perfect storm of how the new limiting mechanics break existing encounters.
Additional Information If possible, we'd greatly appreciate if you could provide as much of this additional information as possible, it will help us to move through the reports and feedback more quickly, but if you don't have it on hand that's okay. Also, feel free to go back and edit your post to include the information after you've already made it. Your defensive ratings: see below The power the enemy killed you with or was stronger than expected: detailed above If you were killed unexpectedly by a power, the amount of damage that power did to you. If possible, a transcript of your combat log leading up to and including the lethal damage. (Screenshots are fine.) Any other information you can include would be great, screenshot of your character's equipment page, insignia page, boon page, companion page, etc.
After failing repeatedly with no solution in sight i exhumed a strategy from EQ1. Adding a second tank to the group to control the adds. This created separation so there was not an excessive overlap of simultaneous red zones. This also prevented agro ping pong allowing the encounter to be controlled and eventually (read slowly) beaten.
Level scaling: There's something pretty off about level scaling in dungeons in general right now. Doing Epic Shores of Turen, the boss can 3 shot me in vanguard mode with shield up, and I've got 19k IL and 24k+ to all defensive stats even with the scaling down. Even in the master of the hunt (SS posted below) the boss can 4 shot me with shield up. Far more than healing can keep up with.
In Undermountain? It's easy peasy. Mobs have the right amount of HP/Damage against my 24-30k defensive and offensive stats. But any dungeon I run, it's like I might as well be wearing paper armor and using a broom to attack.
Example:
This was the paingiver scoreboard after running with my girlfriend's OP Devo paladin in Master of the Hunt. I was in my DREADNOUGHTloadout. We had the exact same companions out (earth archon), at the exact same level. She did no damage on her own, and focused entirely on healing me. The damage you see is 100% her earth archon. That also means you could subtract her damage from mine to get what damage I did without my companion.
I have 24-35k to all offensive and defensive stats, 76k power, and 56k crit. I have all of my feats for maximizing damage on crits, and I've learned my rotation well. I didn't even out-damage my earth archon pet. Note: I'm not saying to reduce the Archon pet damage, it wasn't hitting hard at all. The issue was I wasn't hitting hard. Everything took a long time to kill. I even had to use a health stone 3 or 4 times, and had to scroll once.
This tells me a few things: 1.) NPC IL/level scaling is behaving very differently from PC's, as our companions were far less impacted by the dungeon scale. IMHO, the companions are scaling properly, because they're being scaled to accurately reflect the mobs in the dungeon. Which means... 2.) There's something very off with PC scaling in dungeons. Everything was hitting quite hard, and the Devo OP couldn't even come close to keeping up with healing me during the encounters. In addition, my damage was very, very low for the gear/stats/loadout I was set up for.
I get that we want to make lower level dungeons more challenging, but if we don't change the rewards at the end, and we make even level 62 dungeons close to as hard as level 80 or difficult level 70 dungeons (FBI and eSoT felt about the same difficulty...both difficult and requiring a full group to do properly), then there's no point to run anything lower level because the rewards aren't worth the time and effort spent.
IMO, you could make the chests at the end based on the PC level that ran it. So a level 20 that ran Cragmire Crypts would get some seals of the adventurer, a low level equipment item, and whatever bonus AD the instance had like they do today.
But a level 80 that runs it would get seals of the crown, gear at an appropriate level, and if Cragmire Crypts takes as long to run as FBI now, they should have similar AD rewards. Something like
Base dungeon difficulty at scale (based on estimated time to run it) * player level = reward
Otherwise nobody's going to want to do the lower level dungeons the developers are working tirelessly to get the scaling right on
Comments
I feel this quest difficulty is kinda off for a leveling quest. Not sure if its intended but I m facing like 10-20 mob after I destroy the totem. Although the dragon did swoop in to help but he is of little use. Most of his aoe are slow and the agro is always on me. Even when I stealth and the dragon hit them with aoe, the agro is still on me. When I tried to fight them, they seem to able to chain root me to a spot while other mob maul me to death. My whole fight are just a marry-go-round around the dragon hoping that his aoe could pick them off by chance. I hope the fight isn't suppose to be this way. It took me like 40min to finish the whole quest.
Next is the end fight with Actura. As i approach and before i could see Actura, an army of more than 30 mob is marching at me. I don't know how i pull the agro but it seem to march to me in a straight line and stuck upon each other. It feels like the mob in the whole map is coming at me and this time they seem to be able to see me in stealth.
Anyway, i hope this is not intended because i feel this is a next level kind of difficulty for a leveling quest.
I got scaled down to 60, but the enemies were 81. Not a fair fight.
If you have to dodge every single attack on the first two bosses in order to survive the fight, what will happen to the entry level players that just finished leveling and are queuing for their first dungeon in the intermediate queue? Entry level players might not know the mechanics of the fight. Even if they do, they make mistakes. A dungeon in the intermediate queue, e.g. the lowest difficulty after the leveling queue, should not be designed in such a way, that the first and second boss one-shots everyone that makes a single mistake. Sometimes its not even a mistake, because lag, cc from adds, missing stamina or just slow movement speed for some classes does not allow them to get out of the red fast enough.
If most parties, or parties that are just over the minimum requirements, cannot complete even the first boss, because they are one moment at full health and in the next instance dead (a situation the devs definitely wanted to avoid with MOD 16!), that will deplete the player base rather quickly. It will be an outcry when MOD 16 goes live.
It is likely not possible to design a low or mid level dungeon in such a way, that a bis-player cannot solo it, and at the same time avoiding entry-level players being constantly one-shotted. These are two mutually contradictory goals. In such a case on needs to set priorities. What is better for the long term survival of the game?
a) a couple of bis-players can solo an intermediate level dungeon (taking a much longer time than in a party of five)?
b) practically all entry level groups wipe (or if not the whole group wipes, the less experienced players sit in the rez circle and see the remaining experienced players do the entire work)
Any lag (beyond my normal, which is similar to thefabricant’s) or distraction and the boss wastes me.
So while it’s harder than it was last week it’s still not entirely group content.
I have soloed eToS to the final boss, but that takes a few deaths and resets to get right. More practice and that will come down, but at 20k iL that is what I expect to do with the dungeon.
Pulling the last 2 mobs of eSoT together is still an easier encounter than the first Dridar in eToS.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
This means it should be doable for a group in the range 9-11k.
My experience with eSoT on live is, that many groups with 9-11k cannot kill the final boss.
If it is now more difficult than on live, one might have to raise the minimum IL.
What I am saying is, you are all seeing this from a very special perspective:
- near bis IL
- profound experience with the mechanics of the dungeon you playtest
- profound experience with your character's strengths and weaknesses
On the other hand, sorry to say so, you are a very small group of players, that very likely does not spend much real money (any more) on the game, because you practically have everything you need.
You are very likely not Cryptic's main source of (future) income.
That does not mean you are useless. The game needs experienced players (same as it needs new players)
However, it is rather obvious that most people playtesting on preview and giving feedback belong to the special group just described. You also have your own specific interests (open and hidden). For instance, you might openly say you want a challenge in the low-intermediate level dungeons. What you are not saying is, that you do not care much about the inexperienced players (in fact, if its a challenge for you, its likely impossible for less experienced/geared player, giving you a tremendous advantage when it comes to the subject of earning AD, getting the best stuff etc.)
In any case, your feedback is valuable (its the only feedback we have). It should be taken into consideration. But if Cryptic is smart, they will realize that your feedback is biased.
The problem with "old" content is, that it is nearly impossible to achieve the two conflicting goals:
- not easily soloable for bis-players
- doable (with some effort) for a full group of entry level players
-
Furthermore, one of the main reasons for the revamp given by the Devs was, that they do not want players being in just two states: Full health or Dead. Realistically your playtesting will not lead to a general redesign of the dungeon. Due to lack of resources Cryptic will take the easy way and increase the magnitude of all attacks, to make the dungeon more challenging for you (the top IL level players). This - rather obviously - has lead to a dungeon that is even more difficult than on live. According to what you and theFabricant say, you one-shotted for every small mistake you make. The result is:
We will have exactly the situation, that was Cryptic was trying to "fix" with MOD 16: Players that queue for the easiest epic dungeons (after leveling) will experience the dungeon as a two-state affair: At (nearly) full health - or dead.
Healers will not have the higher significance promised: you cannot heal someone who is dead, you cannot pre-heal when players are at full health. If the boss one-shots you, he will one-shot lesser experienced, more badly geared players two-fold (not that it matters - dead is dead).
A way out of the dilemma would be a complete redesign of the attack pattern of the bosses and adds, so that they produce more sustained damage, but at the same time the hardest hits dont take more than 50% health of a badly geared player. That would give the healers a chance to heal. Unfortunately, it is not realistic that the older content will get a complete redesign.
Realistically we will have to live with two options:
One, the major promise of the Devs for MOD 16 (healers more significant, players not just in two states: full health or dead) will not be fulfilled for the intermediate and advanced dungeons, e.g. the content played most on live. In fact, it will be worse than on live. People will rage, they will call out Cryptic for "lying", they will quit. I would wish to avoid this.
The alternative is, that old content will remain doable for most players queuing for it, healers will be more significant, one-shotting does not happen. But then the old content will be soloable (taking more time) for the near bis-players.
Solo Paladin to the door of the boss, 2 deaths because my mount is too slow to run past anything and so I had to deal with the largest pulls (and I dropped shield at the wrong time once).
The armor, weapons, neck, belt, shirt, pants, and 1 ring are all from drops. The enchants are the rank 8s that Neverember gives. All the pet buffs are not full, the Bondings are Rank 8 and it has a +4 Fierce Companion gear slot only (with a rank 2 and 7 rune it it). 1 Boon point in its entirety.
The only "end game" thing about this toon is player experience and the Guild Boons.
Sure it cannot clear the last boss, but it can solo the rest of the dungeon.
Which is the point of the feedback. This character shouldn't be soloing the dungeon.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
try it 3 times which last very long and keresta is such a hard thing for my pally yesterday...need all my scrolls for her cause im always oneshotted - if im blocking or not (Change all what possible) - she hits like a truck threw all blocks etc. in 0,1 second. She shoot 3 balls at once in 3 various directions and everyone hits me - here is the dmg log:
[Kampf (Allein)] Keresta Delvingstone fügt Charakter mit „Umnachteter Geist“ 216447 (247780) Nekrotischer Schaden zu.
[Kampf (Allein)] Keresta Delvingstone fügt Charakter mit „Umnachteter Geist“ 216447 (247780) Nekrotischer Schaden zu.
[Kampf (Allein)] Keresta Delvingstone fügt Charakter mit „Umnachteter Geist“ 216447 (247780) Nekrotischer Schaden zu.
remember 3 balls in 3 directions but a one-hit at my toon - ist a 639341 hit in 0,1 second
she than follows me to campfire and the old, slowly pala cant run away
Maybe i think i havent kill her but my companion(s) (shadow deamon) did it cause he has accidentally a twin. They managed it at the end.
The twins maybe the reason why i cant enter the endboss.
All done in new gear with over 20k il and no success today.
Pls take a look and fix it if you can. thx and regards, ObelX
Greets, ObelX
[Combat (Self)] Your Barkshield Armor absorbs 29243 (24000) damage from Withers's Bigby's Forceful Hand.
[Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 46673 damage from Withers's Bigby's Forceful Hand.
[Combat (Self)] Withers deals 405044 (579642) Physical Damage to you with Bigby's Forceful Hand.
This involves the skill where a red circle appears around Whithers and pushes you away. I do not think it should be hitting this much. Ofcourse my block was somewhat depleted here, but I also got 1shot when I had full shield-stamina, barkshield and absolution running (running on Justicar paladin with 29k defense).
The Assassins and Vampires are exceptionally hard hitting, as well as have very fast attacks, as well as some amount of cc.
They need to be toned down in terms of overall damage and speed of attack. My level 80 Cleric is having a lot of issues soloing them.
Seems a bit unrealistic to assume that people are eager to fight all the mobs up to the last boss and then abandon the instance after "all the hard work", because the boss cannot be cleared.
In eSoT: quitting before the last boss gives no rewards at all (except worthless drops from normal mobs).
Furthermore, it is well known in eSoT, that the path to the boss is extremely quick and easy.
The only real challenge (for groups with IL-levels for which the dungeon was originally designed) is the end-boss.
So what is the relevance of your feedback? Contrary to what you are implying, you did not solo eSoT.
You failed at the last boss, which is expected for a character of 12k IL.
A 21k IL can solo the boss, if (s)he is careful. Not so much different from live.
Even my 12.5k GWF (~15k in MOD 16) can solo the last boss on live, if she is extra careful.
Its a jump and run feast, constantly sprinting out of the red.
Not really fun and rather inefficient (compared to the time you can do with a 12k party).
I soloed eSoT only once, not worth the effort to repeat it.
In fact, as soon as I can run TONG and higher content, it becomes a total waste of time to solo old content, because the quality of the rewards is in no way comparable what I can get at TONG, CoDG and higher. And then why should I solo at all, if there is public queue?
The intent of the Devs for MOD 16 was clear:
(1) dungeon runs will not result in just two player states: "fully healed" and "dead"
(2) healers will be more significant (this obviously requires that healers actually get a chance to heal, which is only possible if players will *not* get one-shotted)l
I didn't see a single dev stating, that the intent of MOD 16 is, that soloing will be made harder.
In fact, it was explicitly stated that this is not the intent.
To be fair, the context of that statement makes it clear, that it refers to "normal" content outside Epic dungeons.
But if soloing "normal" content shall not become more difficult (according to the devs), the same will be true for dungeon runs.
There is no practical way to have the same difficulty of solo play on landscape as on live, and at the same time dramatically reduce soloability of dungeon runs compared to live: The abilities, stats etc. of our toons are independent of the content they run. If we can solo landscape well on live, and if we can solo some epic dungeons well on live, the same must be true for landscape and dungeons in MOD 16.
On live practically all intermediate dungeons (RIQ) and most advanced dungeons (RAQ) can be soloed.
Not by the low IL players that usually queue for this content, but by a small group of near bis players.
It don't like it that much either, but it does not seem to be a problem on live:
Players that can solo these dungeons usually don't do it, because they have much more rewarding things they can do.
Why waste my time in an old dungeon, with rewards that are more or less useless, if I can get far better rewards that are actually meaningful in the top tier content that my near-bis toon can run?
Unless someone can point me to a post of a dev, that Cryptic also intended
(3) to remove soloability of all dungeons in all queues in MOD 16
I will assume that the high priority goals of MOD 16 are (1) and (2), as explicitly stated by the devs,
and that (3) is an item on the personal agenda of some players.
Now if your personal agenda (3) were compatible with (1) and (2), I would immediately say: yes, please lets have (3) as well.
Unfortunately, for reasons explained in my previous posts, I don't think it is *realistically* possible.
"Realistic" means "without a complete redesign of the lower tier dungeons.
Without a complete redesign, the Dev's goals (1) + (2) and your personal goal (3) are contradictory.
The low tier dungeons were originally designed for much lower IL, close to the entry level IL.
And guess what, they still work as intended for players of the IL for which the dungeon was originally designed!
You said it yourself, you cannot solo the last boss with your 12k IL toon, and that is entirely good so.
The dungeon has not become easier for the IL levels for which it was designed!
Granted, the majority of players queuing for this dungeon tend to have a larger IL-level than when the dungeon was first introduced. So the dungeon is gradually becoming easier on average. But that is intended, because it is old content with comparably bad rewards. Nonetheless new players must run the old content and reap the bad rewards, in order to become gradually better.
If you change the difficulty, the most pronounced effect will be on the entry level players, that can only queue for the low tier dungeons. You have made their life more difficult, you have prolonged their suffering, because you wanted a higher challenge. The funny thing is, you already have this higher challenge in the high tier content, for which you are eligible. For rather selfish reason, you want that it becomes more difficult for the new players to catch up to you.
It is obvious, that you do not really care for the 12k IL players, that have no other choice than to run RIQ.
You want the difficulty of the dungeon increased, despite the fact that its entry level is 7k and EVEN THOUGH YOUR 12k TOON CANNOT CLEAR THE LAST BOSS. That makes your hidden agenda rather obvious.
You are basically saying:
"Cryptic, forget what you have promised all players for MOD 16!
Instead, focus on giving near-bis players a challenge in the low tier dungeons!
Never mind that we seldom play them, because the really challenging content with the best rewards is at the top tiers.
But if we are bored enough, we would like to have a little challenge in the old content as well.
And yes, we do not care if the side effect of the little challenge is, that new players will have a harder time catching up to us."
This is a dungeon for leveling it's not even an epic dungeon. leveling dungeons should not one hit players.
▂▃▄▅▆▇█▓▒░ Drac ░▒▓█▇▆▅▄▃▂
There is supposed to be an image here, but the hamsters took it.
<div align="center">AKA Draconis of Luskan</div>
Take a backseat boy. Cause now I'm driving. ~ Give it up - Elizabeth Gilies ft. Ariana Grande
RIP Foundry: On that day, when the sky fell away, our world came to an end. ~Lifelight
There is an unexpectedly large difficulty curve for brand new characters at the karzov encounter in Blacklake. Running through the rest of that encounter I got down to about 1/4th of the HP bar a couple times, but never died. Once facing Karzov I had to kick it up quite a bit (using skills from playing this class for several years, skills noobs won't have). It should be a simple fix though. I was able to beat Karzov in the first round, but dies to the final two adds, and the only reason I beat him is I went in with my Action point and used my shield somewhat effectively, and a well timed potion.
Character name is Mika Swordhand@fluffy6977, Fighter class, Level 9, TIL 107. Enemies involved are Karzov and the Recruit adds he spawns. Ratings aren't super important to this, it's not a ratings problem.
The problem is that at this point in the campaign you are tackling level 9 enemies with a level 3 weapon. To highlight the issue, here's an example of the incoming damage from the combat log:
[Combat (Self)] Karzov deals 491 (494) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 131 damage from Recruit's Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Recruit gives 0 (132) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Recruit deals 131 (132) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 120 damage from Recruit's Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Recruit gives 0 (120) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Block absorbs 164 damage from Karzov's Jab.
And here is an example of the outgoing damage:
[Combat (Self)] Your Brazen Slash deals 32 Physical Damage to Recruit.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Brazen Slash deals 50 Physical Damage to Recruit.
[Combat (Self)] Your Cleave deals 8 Physical Damage to Sniper.
[Combat (Self)] Your Shield Slam deals 107 Physical Damage to Sniper.
[Combat (Self)] Your Earthshaker deals 464 Physical Damage to Recruit.
The issue is that with the weapon damage (45-55) of that level 3 weapon there is no way to sucessfully burn down the adds without getting overwhelmed quickly. The quest reward for killing Karzov and retrieving the crown is a level 6 weapon, which should level the playing field and make this encounter tough but still more often than not doable. Move it to be an earlier quest reward and that should take care of the issue.
Last boss on SoT should get role in Tokio Drift movie. When he initiate his fire hand or whatever its called ( that cone AoE of his)
he just slides across the arena. Not even mention that every other attack he aims at someone else. Whats the point of tank presence if despite being focus for him others are targeted.
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Other then that SoT suppose to be 8k IL dungeon, I'd like to see party with 8k that fights with that boss. I'm 14k and have to run around to stay alive, I;m a tank i should stand there and laugh at him atleast for some time and not die in 2 hits (that last hit was 110k, with stats reduction i have 140k on SoT). And its the lowest epic dungeon.
In umbraxakar's lair,killed Keresta,talked to Lord Moonstar,but can't actually enter the lair for the final part. I try to go through the portal,it counts down from 6,but never transports me into the room. Also the difficulty is far to high on this quest. I never even die this much on an end game run . If you will make a post when this issue has been fixed I would be most grateful , I want be able to advance, until something is done. Full stop.
On the very last quest, elite vampires and the cult boss basically 1-shot everything. I ran it as Dreadnought GF with 300k+ HP and 50k+ defense (other defensive ratings are maxed). Still the cult boss did 300k+ dmg with almost every hit to me which I barely withstood and even died a couple of times. The elite vampires did a little less but still enough to bring me to the verge of death in 1 hit even with my shield up.
Also I was unable to enter the dragon lair no matter what I did. The issue was similar to what we've experienced with Fane of the Night Serpent back when mod 13 was released. The timer just went to 0 and nothing happened.
As a side note - enemies in a given area do inconsistent dmg and something feels a bit wrong. Haven't recorded or wrote any of that but it feels like enemies which should be easy do a lot of dmg and die harder then expected. The opposite is also true. I'll give it a bit more testing and maybe run it through ACT to make a proper list but still something to have in mind
**edit** OK, just tried this with my similar statted barbarian, was an order of magnitude easier if not more, so seems to be a ranger issue not a difficulty one.
To give you an idea I can go into any area in vanrakdoom and stand in any group of mobs and hit harrowstorm as a healer warlock and the mobs cannot kill me before I kill them. In level 70 content my spells heal for not even 4 digit figures. I honestly think you should just do away with trying to normalise stuff as it is going to be so much time to get this right. This is at 20k item level what if someone hits level 80 at say 12k item level and then get their stats "normalised" they have no hope of surviving in lower level content. You are essentially penalising them for wanting to level up
Who honestly cares if people can walk through 2-3 year old level 70 content when they are level 80 they get nothing in terms of rewards for it. You should just concentrate on getting the new dungeon and zones in order
If youre up to, this weekend i can join you to run with fresh toons with undermountain fre gear to see what happens and our party can place theys feedback here, we just need to grab a few more people...
but to do this the best would be if the lv 70 toon token was working on Preview, i belive is not up yet...
* ESOT
First, scaling here is atrocious. In PE I'm about 27k defense and ~240k health, in the instance I'm 6500 defense and 115k health.
Couldn't get past first pack of mobs, as the tank every hit was fully depleting my block and not blocking I was losing 60-80% of my health in 1 hit. Got 1-shot twice. As the TANK.
* ELOL
Scaling didn't seem to be quite as bad as ESOT. I had ~11k defense and ~140k health.
Did better here. Cleared the small trash packs with no issues, then pulled a golem that did 300,000,000 damage with its overhead swing, whoops. Group finishes it off, I'm brought back up, we pull another golem and everyone gets out of the way of the big overhead swing. I want to test so pull a third golem we didn't actually need to kill and intentionally eat an overhead while blocking, it only did ~30k through the block but fully depleted a full block bar so not all golems are created equal. Start first boss fight and the drake rider INSTANTLY pounces into the group of us (no time to spread out) and 1-shots us all, although it just barely killed me as the tank. Reset, try again. Drake rider INSTANTLY pounces into the group of us and 1-shots us all, again just barely killing me but our DC took >1M damage from it. Reset, try again. Drake rider doesn't instantly pounce this time, it waits a solid 3 seconds and only 1-shots 1 player. Drake rider is hitting me for ~60k a swing, which is about 40% of my health here. Healer couldn't keep up and I go down after about 30 seconds, boss is ~80% health still. 10 total attempts, never got it below 75% health.
* ETOS
Scaling is even worse here than in ESOT, I had 4k defense and under 100k health.
First drow priestess 1-shot everybody in every attempt, we couldn't get past the first pack of trash.
The scaling in the lower-end epic dungeons is way too aggressive for their intended audience. Some of the boss-fight mechanics I was able to test are legacy mechanics that are now incredibly lethal with the crazy scaling. These instances, and IMO your universal scaling in general, need work.
Already on live one can get one-shotted in these dungeons.
If Cryptic then
- reduces the overall damage all players can do (an intended consequence of the class changes and rebalancing efforts of MOD 16),
- eliminates self-healing through life-steal (to make healers "more meaningful" in MOD 16)
- reduces hitpoints and defense of the low IL players via scaling
- increases the overall damage of bosses and mobs
it is rather predicable what will happen: Even more one-shots, healers not even having a chance to heal.
I can only hope, that the lessons have been learned and that we will have playable low tier content for those players that actually must run this content, because their low IL does not give them any other options.
I noticed the damage you did to the "skirmisher" and what it is doing to you, the lowest damage you did was "1" and the highest was "87", that is extremely low, it's almost laughable. I understand the devs are still adjusting things but hopefully they get everything done before it hits live or there's no point in trying to go back to any of the older zones
other games fixed that boosting dmg on lower level mobs (10 or less) by huge % (usually crit severity and crit chance )
a guy with 20k+ ilvl vs a fresh max lvl yeah there is huge diff , and the 20k will still solo it if he wants it , punishing lower ilvls because overgeared chars are "op" isnt the way to go
Soloers are important too.
[Combat (Self)] Your Critical Defense absorbs 2954 damage from Keresta Delvingstone's Shadow Claw.
[Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable absorbs 295359 damage from Keresta Delvingstone's Shadow Claw.
[Combat (Self)] Keresta Delvingstone deals 302415 (161596) Necrotic Damage to you with Shadow Claw.
Character: Obsidian Sword
That seems a little much damage for Keresta...
Oh and for giggles she has been repeating it. No Unstoppable this time:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Keresta Delvingstone deals 645232 (161596) Necrotic Damage to you with Shadow Claw.
With block up:
[Combat (Self)] Keresta Delvingstone deals 495168 (161596) Necrotic Damage to you with Shadow Claw.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Necessary Information
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Guardian@ragnarz2
Paladin
80
21k+
Kessel
Final boss fight
A brief description of what happened.
Kessel+2 beholders. The combination of high TTK, red circles from multiple sources, large area of separation between mobs and periodic stun made it impossible to hold agro on all 3 mobs. Everyone dies. Sometimes we made it to golem spawning but still everyone dies.
Combination of Paladin agro tools. Inability to focus fire. Players engaging from different ranges creating a chase condition. Basically a perfect storm of how the new limiting mechanics break existing encounters.
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Your defensive ratings: see below
The power the enemy killed you with or was stronger than expected: detailed above
If you were killed unexpectedly by a power, the amount of damage that power did to you.
If possible, a transcript of your combat log leading up to and including the lethal damage. (Screenshots are fine.)
Any other information you can include would be great, screenshot of your character's equipment page, insignia page, boon page, companion page, etc.
After failing repeatedly with no solution in sight i exhumed a strategy from EQ1. Adding a second tank to the group to control the adds. This created separation so there was not an excessive overlap of simultaneous red zones. This also prevented agro ping pong allowing the encounter to be controlled and eventually (read slowly) beaten.
Level scaling:
There's something pretty off about level scaling in dungeons in general right now. Doing Epic Shores of Turen, the boss can 3 shot me in vanguard mode with shield up, and I've got 19k IL and 24k+ to all defensive stats even with the scaling down. Even in the master of the hunt (SS posted below) the boss can 4 shot me with shield up. Far more than healing can keep up with.
In Undermountain? It's easy peasy. Mobs have the right amount of HP/Damage against my 24-30k defensive and offensive stats. But any dungeon I run, it's like I might as well be wearing paper armor and using a broom to attack.
Example:
This was the paingiver scoreboard after running with my girlfriend's OP Devo paladin in Master of the Hunt. I was in my DREADNOUGHTloadout. We had the exact same companions out (earth archon), at the exact same level. She did no damage on her own, and focused entirely on healing me. The damage you see is 100% her earth archon. That also means you could subtract her damage from mine to get what damage I did without my companion.
I have 24-35k to all offensive and defensive stats, 76k power, and 56k crit. I have all of my feats for maximizing damage on crits, and I've learned my rotation well. I didn't even out-damage my earth archon pet. Note: I'm not saying to reduce the Archon pet damage, it wasn't hitting hard at all. The issue was I wasn't hitting hard. Everything took a long time to kill. I even had to use a health stone 3 or 4 times, and had to scroll once.
This tells me a few things:
1.) NPC IL/level scaling is behaving very differently from PC's, as our companions were far less impacted by the dungeon scale. IMHO, the companions are scaling properly, because they're being scaled to accurately reflect the mobs in the dungeon. Which means...
2.) There's something very off with PC scaling in dungeons. Everything was hitting quite hard, and the Devo OP couldn't even come close to keeping up with healing me during the encounters. In addition, my damage was very, very low for the gear/stats/loadout I was set up for.
I get that we want to make lower level dungeons more challenging, but if we don't change the rewards at the end, and we make even level 62 dungeons close to as hard as level 80 or difficult level 70 dungeons (FBI and eSoT felt about the same difficulty...both difficult and requiring a full group to do properly), then there's no point to run anything lower level because the rewards aren't worth the time and effort spent.
IMO, you could make the chests at the end based on the PC level that ran it. So a level 20 that ran Cragmire Crypts would get some seals of the adventurer, a low level equipment item, and whatever bonus AD the instance had like they do today.
But a level 80 that runs it would get seals of the crown, gear at an appropriate level, and if Cragmire Crypts takes as long to run as FBI now, they should have similar AD rewards. Something like
Base dungeon difficulty at scale (based on estimated time to run it) * player level = reward
Otherwise nobody's going to want to do the lower level dungeons the developers are working tirelessly to get the scaling right on