When i heard that we will have fewer Feats then before, but in exchange the remaining Feats will be really impactfull and define the way how u play your class. Well, seeing what we got... that isnt true AT ALL: U can run without skilling any of these Feats and u barely notice a difference. The Feats are WORSE then feats we had in the old System. So if you dumb down the System that much, then atleast make sure that the Feats make a difference (5% dmg increase or whatever HAMSTER we get now is not a "Huge, gameplay defining change") And secondly, 10 Feats is way to few, no more choice, no more differences...
At this point, nobody knows if a 5% increase in something is significant. If something is 1%, then you add 5%, making it 6%, that is a huge addition to it. We are all ignorant at this point until the Developers clarify how things work and people crunch the numbers.
That's bad logic. A "you heal 1% of the damage you deal" to "you heal 6% of the damage you deal" is indeed a x6 multiplier.
But "you deal +1% damage" to "you deal +6% damage" isn't going from 1% to 6%... it's going from 101% to 106%.
Which I'm sure you recognize is a much smaller change.
My logic is sound. Not bad logic at all. You are making assumptions when we just do not know. That is my point...we do not know what the numbers mean yet.
I actually do not understand why we need to use percent values muptiled by 500 in ratings. Why not to display only 1.002[%] (% sign is optional) instead of 501? Rating transformation to percent is better done by computers. Why do human users need to perform mental division? Please make all rating percent in display, you could still keep you integers in memory. This is just presentation thing and it should be easy to implement. Integer ratings are just bad UX.
Well, it probably makes sense to go either for CA or Crit, but not both. Of course, if you are IL 21K and have a lot of points, you can easily get a decent value for every stat, but otherwise, well...
You are a bit naïve. If you have 21k, you will be downscaled to zone ilv proportionally. So, you still to need to maintain a proportion that is right for your class. For example, in Chult you will be downscaled to 14.5k.
For how Neverwinter now works a statement that "Critical Strike is increased by 2500" and "Critical Chance is increased by 5%" are synonymous. If it was ever something that was going to apply outside of ratings or exceed a ratings effective cap, it would be called out specifically as doing that.
Ratings themselves don't actually do anything to your character, they get converted into the absolute percent value and that is what affects the character.
Copied in from the other thread. I think it belongs here better:
I would recommend having stat % values available in the tooltip or displayed. I understand that the "% value" isn't literally true most of the time, but it's much more difficult to grasp huge stat numbers.
Pre-mod16 people said "get to 60% Resistance Ignored" (then, 85%, then 100%) they did not reference the (equivalent) stat number (same for defense and others... and i realize that there were other sources contributing but it's also much more intuitive to work with those smaller % values). The stat number is bigger and harder to grasp / remember. I would recommend a tooltip like:
Critical Chance: "this % value is countered by your target's Crit Resistance. The result of (Critical Chance - Crit Resistance) is capped between 0% and 50%"
Armor Penetration: "this % value counters your target's Defense. The result of (Defense - Armor Penetration) is capped between 0% and 80%"
You could even have the chance show base + gear + buffs breakout if you wanted to be fancy.
But the idea of having numeric stats vs. base 5% (or 10% in the case of CA) is in my opinion needlessly confusing.
Finally, it makes me very sad that you re-scaled the stats but you didn't land on a more readable ratio. Why 500:1% instead of 100:1%? It would still leave far enough spread to play with for gear (and you could even have decimals on the back end for all we care). But it would have made everything so much neater. It's probably way too late to change, so this isn't really feedback heh
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
For how Neverwinter now works a statement that "Critical Strike is increased by 2500" and "Critical Chance is increased by 5%" are synonymous. If it was ever something that was going to apply outside of ratings or exceed a ratings effective cap, it would be called out specifically as doing that.
Ratings themselves don't actually do anything to your character, they get converted into the absolute percent value and that is what affects the character.
Copied in from the other thread. I think it belongs here better:
I would recommend having stat % values available in the tooltip or displayed. I understand that the "% value" isn't literally true most of the time, but it's much more difficult to grasp huge stat numbers.
Pre-mod16 people said "get to 60% Resistance Ignored" (then, 85%, then 100%) they did not reference the (equivalent) stat number (same for defense and others... and i realize that there were other sources contributing but it's also much more intuitive to work with those smaller % values). The stat number is bigger and harder to grasp / remember. I would recommend a tooltip like:
Critical Chance: "this % value is countered by your target's Crit Resistance. The result of (Critical Chance - Crit Resistance) is capped between 0% and 50%"
Armor Penetration: "this % value counters your target's Defense. The result of (Defense - Armor Penetration) is capped between 0% and 80%"
You could even have the chance show base + gear + buffs breakout if you wanted to be fancy.
But the idea of having numeric stats vs. base 5% (or 10% in the case of CA) is in my opinion needlessly confusing.
Finally, it makes me very sad that you re-scaled the stats but you didn't land on a more readable ratio. Why 500:1% instead of 100:1%? It would still leave far enough spread to play with for gear (and you could even have decimals on the back end for all we care). But it would have made everything so much neater. It's probably way too late to change, so this isn't really feedback heh
Alternatively, if they didn't mind radically upping the stat count, 1000:1
The +1 Ability Bonus for Half-Elves (varied by class) should be reflected during character creation.
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited March 2019
There are quite a few things I like about Mod 16. I like the new campaign, and the fact that solo gameplay is no longer totally trivial - Now I am less bored than I used to be. I like the counterstats in principle (although I have some reservations about the implementation) and I can see how it is good for the long-term viability of the game.
However, there is one thing I absolutely hate (the treatment of the primary abilities, STR/DEX/etc), and a few that I really dislike, most of which can be described as "dumbing down the game".
Consider the boons. Previously people had to make choices - sometimes hard choices - do I pick this or do I pick that. In some cases this was really tough, when you had to make a choice between two good boons - in other cases it was just plain annoying when you had to make a choice between two bad ones - you felt you worked hard and got nothing in return.
Still, there was complexity - it required thinking and understanding of how to build your character, and it allowed for variations.
Now....what we have is this: The top two tiers allow some hard choices, but they are mostly dependent on class and role. The bottom 4 tiers should be pretty much the same for everyone. You skip the creature-specific boons at first and take everything else - no thinking required.
Later you can add the Undead boons - they are valid in several areas and then maybe cultists or demons, but that's it everyone will be picking the same - there is really no room for individual variations.
I consider the rework of primary ability scores (STR/DEX/etc) is completely unacceptable - a disastrous design.
All ability scores give the same bonuses now for all classes. Now, that is fine in principle, but the implementation is just too flawed - see below.
We no longer have the ability to roll our stats at the beginning. That is bad.
Big snippage, but just going to throw in my two bits with this: 1. Players should still feel some control with their character, and be able to roll their stats. That's a good portion of character creation in D&D, and losing that is just... weird. 2. Each class should have +damage (and other such things) applied to the appropriate key stat (WIS for Clerics, INT for Wizards, STR for Fighters, DEX for Rangers and Rogues). I realize that it's likely far easier to code with just one set of stats to draw from for the bonuses, but from a lore / D&D perspective - it's a bit ridiculous that I have no reason to be increasing my WIS as a Cleric. More damage? No. More healing? No. Faster recovery? No....
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I consider the rework of primary ability scores (STR/DEX/etc) is completely unacceptable - a disastrous design.
All ability scores give the same bonuses now for all classes. Now, that is fine in principle, but the implementation is just too flawed - see below.
We no longer have the ability to roll our stats at the beginning. That is bad.
Big snippage, but just going to throw in my two bits with this: 1. Players should still feel some control with their character, and be able to roll their stats. That's a good portion of character creation in D&D, and losing that is just... weird. 2. Each class should have +damage (and other such things) applied to the appropriate key stat (WIS for Clerics, INT for Wizards, STR for Fighters, DEX for Rangers and Rogues). I realize that it's likely far easier to code with just one set of stats to draw from for the bonuses, but from a lore / D&D perspective - it's a bit ridiculous that I have no reason to be increasing my WIS as a Cleric. More damage? No. More healing? No. Faster recovery? No....
Honestly, I'd argue that if you're going to do away with stat rolling, you should just do away with ability scores entirely.
Or, if sacred cows are important to us, ADD IN A DAMNED FIREBALL SPELL FOR WIZARDS I'm not bitter what are you talking about
I consider the rework of primary ability scores (STR/DEX/etc) is completely unacceptable - a disastrous design.
All ability scores give the same bonuses now for all classes. Now, that is fine in principle, but the implementation is just too flawed - see below.
We no longer have the ability to roll our stats at the beginning. That is bad.
Big snippage, but just going to throw in my two bits with this: 1. Players should still feel some control with their character, and be able to roll their stats. That's a good portion of character creation in D&D, and losing that is just... weird. 2. Each class should have +damage (and other such things) applied to the appropriate key stat (WIS for Clerics, INT for Wizards, STR for Fighters, DEX for Rangers and Rogues). I realize that it's likely far easier to code with just one set of stats to draw from for the bonuses, but from a lore / D&D perspective - it's a bit ridiculous that I have no reason to be increasing my WIS as a Cleric. More damage? No. More healing? No. Faster recovery? No....
I suggested letting us choose between two or three stat arrays for ever every class.
If someone wants their Paladin to be a little stronger (strength highest), or a little tougher (constitution highest), or a little more charismatic or wise (charisma or wisdom highest) then let them make that choice up front.
If someone wants their Ranger to be stronger (strength highest) or more dexterous (dexterity highest) then let them make that choice.
Some classes, like Wizard, might not have an obvious second choice, but I think that dexterity can help everyone so maybe go that route, or even rearrange just the other stats... Intelligence would be the 18 in both arrays but the other stats might be ordered differently, so some wizards would be a little more dexterous while others would be more charismatic or might have a higher constitution.
It might not be much, but it would be something, and I think that asking for more engagement on the player's part during character creation is a good thing.
They could still open up with a recommended array and so people that wanted to take that could just click "accept" and move on, while others might want to hit the "reroll" option and look at what else is available.
Could you explain us what is "Combined Rating" stat on all items?
Thx in advance, Brew.
Combined rating is added to each of the "main" stats that is not HP or Power. Meaning Armor Penetration, Defense, Critical Strike, Critical Avoidance, Combat Advantage Bonus, Awareness, Accuracy, and Deflect.
Charisma was my dump stat.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
... So, are stats completely off on the display? I'm trying to figure out what my stats will be pre runestones and pre-enchants when I'm 80th level, and coming up with some pretty wild results (for instance: over the functional cap of Armor Penetration without any enchants invested, assuming anything past 24k is basically just useless)
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
So, I know this is super low on the list of priorities but, Tidespan potions give a bonus to accuracy, and accuracy potions give a bonus to critical strike.
Maaaaaaaybe that's going to cause confusion somewhere down the line?
Someone please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but looking at the opposing stat system, isn't it true that Defense, Critical Resistance, Awareness, and Deflect are all completely useless unless you stack enough of them to exceed the mobs' Armor Penetration, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage, and Accuracy since defensive stat values equal to or less than the mobs' offensive stats result in 0% chance to win the "opposing roll"?
If this is correct, aren't players going to end up with thousands of unavoidable stat points from necessary gear that do nothing at all? DPS with 15k Defense vs. mob with 24k Armor Penetration? Tank with 18k Combat Advantage vs. mob with 24k Awareness? I feel like I must be missing something, because this makes no sense to me.
Someone please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but looking at the opposing stat system, isn't it true that Defense, Critical Resistance, Awareness, and Deflect are all completely useless unless you stack enough of them to exceed the mobs' Armor Penetration, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage, and Accuracy since defensive stat values equal to or less than the mobs' offensive stats result in 0% chance to win the "opposing roll"?
If this is correct, aren't players going to end up with thousands of unavoidable stat points from necessary gear that do nothing at all? DPS with 15k Defense vs. mob with 24k Armor Penetration? Tank with 18k Combat Advantage vs. mob with 24k Awareness? I feel like I must be missing something, because this makes no sense to me.
Someone please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but looking at the opposing stat system, isn't it true that Defense, Critical Resistance, Awareness, and Deflect are all completely useless unless you stack enough of them to exceed the mobs' Armor Penetration, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage, and Accuracy since defensive stat values equal to or less than the mobs' offensive stats result in 0% chance to win the "opposing roll"?
If this is correct, aren't players going to end up with thousands of unavoidable stat points from necessary gear that do nothing at all? DPS with 15k Defense vs. mob with 24k Armor Penetration? Tank with 18k Combat Advantage vs. mob with 24k Awareness? I feel like I must be missing something, because this makes no sense to me.
I think the answer is yes, you'll have unavoidable incidental / often useless stat points. But if you run scaled down content then they'll be useful again whee!
Regardless of waste, I would aim to cap ArPen, Accuracy, and one of Crit/CA then pump Power. Not sure on defensive side, but I imagine tanks at least will stack HP with enough Defense to overcome enemy ArPen and cap DR.
Someone please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but looking at the opposing stat system, isn't it true that Defense, Critical Resistance, Awareness, and Deflect are all completely useless unless you stack enough of them to exceed the mobs' Armor Penetration, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage, and Accuracy since defensive stat values equal to or less than the mobs' offensive stats result in 0% chance to win the "opposing roll"?
If this is correct, aren't players going to end up with thousands of unavoidable stat points from necessary gear that do nothing at all? DPS with 15k Defense vs. mob with 24k Armor Penetration? Tank with 18k Combat Advantage vs. mob with 24k Awareness? I feel like I must be missing something, because this makes no sense to me.
You came to right conclusion but you listed the wrong stats.
Critical Strile, Combat Advantage, Defense and Deflect are the stats which have no effect untill your reach your target's opposing stats' level.
Armor Penetration, Accuracy, Crit Resist and Awareness are always useful even if you only have a few thousand points in them.
Someone please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but looking at the opposing stat system, isn't it true that Defense, Critical Resistance, Awareness, and Deflect are all completely useless unless you stack enough of them to exceed the mobs' Armor Penetration, Critical Strike, Combat Advantage, and Accuracy since defensive stat values equal to or less than the mobs' offensive stats result in 0% chance to win the "opposing roll"?
If this is correct, aren't players going to end up with thousands of unavoidable stat points from necessary gear that do nothing at all? DPS with 15k Defense vs. mob with 24k Armor Penetration? Tank with 18k Combat Advantage vs. mob with 24k Awareness? I feel like I must be missing something, because this makes no sense to me.
You came to right conclusion but you listed the wrong stats.
Critical Strile, Combat Advantage, Defense and Deflect are the stats which have no effect untill your reach your target's opposing stats' level.
Armor Penetration, Accuracy, Crit Resist and Awareness are always useful even if you only have a few thousand points in them.
Thanks, that's good to know. I think I see what I did there, switching the order in some of the stat formulae. Still unfortunate about how each role will have some stat points that do nothing.
To be fair, the old system has shades of this, where incidental stats can be very close to useless in effect, but I think this takes it to the next level.
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
So I know the reason stated for the stat changes was to get out of the 100% arpen/100% crit then dump the rest in power, but now as things stand, we have to get x amount arpen/acc/crit and then dump into power (and combat adv). With the additional amount of stats added to gear, it's even easier to reach these metrics.
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Bottom line, we are still in the same spot now as we are in mod 15, except it is much easier to hit that mark.
I think the monster's stat ratings should be increased, but at the same time either give us more options to get defensive stats so we don't all get one shot, or separate monster's defensive and offensive stats to have different values. Have some squishy glass cannon monsters, then tanky monsters that hit like wet noodles, and stuff in between. This would create some variety between monsters, but also give us some customization between players on how to allocate stats.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
So I know the reason stated for the stat changes was to get out of the 100% arpen/100% crit then dump the rest in power, but now as things stand, we have to get x amount arpen/acc/crit and then dump into power (and combat adv). With the additional amount of stats added to gear, it's even easier to reach these metrics.
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Bottom line, we are still in the same spot now as we are in mod 15, except it is much easier to hit that mark.
I think the monster's stat ratings should be increased, but at the same time either give us more options to get defensive stats so we don't all get one shot, or separate monster's defensive and offensive stats to have different values. Have some squishy glass cannon monsters, then tanky monsters that hit like wet noodles, and stuff in between. This would create some variety between monsters, but also give us some customization between players on how to allocate stats.
Well, the simple way of dealing with this is to just raise the stats of monsters.
I'm more concerned with the fact that I don't think giving monsters all the same stat for all areas is particularly a good way to balance things.
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Undermountain is a leveling area which means we need to balance between players freshly leveling up being able to survive and more experienced/better geared players still having some challenge. This does mean the area will be a bit easier for very well geared/upgraded players.
All of that said we have regularly tried adjustments in different directions in order to find the right balance and there is still room to adjust stats more.
For the Catacombs a player would need the following to truly max out:
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Undermountain is a leveling area which means we need to balance between players freshly leveling up being able to survive and more experienced/better geared players still having some challenge. This does mean the area will be a bit easier for very well geared/upgraded players.
All of that said we have regularly tried adjustments in different directions in order to find the right balance and there is still room to adjust stats more.
For the Catacombs a player would need the following to truly max out:
Then of course there is whatever you put towards hit points and power.
I just worry that some enchants are virtually useless. I did a runover of my stat arrays and it looked like basically anything other than Radiant/Azures were going to be a complete waste.
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Undermountain is a leveling area which means we need to balance between players freshly leveling up being able to survive and more experienced/better geared players still having some challenge. This does mean the area will be a bit easier for very well geared/upgraded players.
All of that said we have regularly tried adjustments in different directions in order to find the right balance and there is still room to adjust stats more.
For the Catacombs a player would need the following to truly max out:
Undermountain is a leveling area which means we need to balance between players freshly leveling up being able to survive and more experienced/better geared players still having some challenge. This does mean the area will be a bit easier for very well geared/upgraded players.
I've got to tell you, then, something ain't right in Denmark. I ran the entire campaign on my Hellbringer SW--who is 17.7 on live, +1 MWIII weapons, all R14s, the whole nine yards (because metaphors are fun). Boy, oh, boy, did she have a hard time on the lower levels. I fear for my guildies, many of whom are far less geared.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Undermountain is a leveling area which means we need to balance between players freshly leveling up being able to survive and more experienced/better geared players still having some challenge. This does mean the area will be a bit easier for very well geared/upgraded players.
All of that said we have regularly tried adjustments in different directions in order to find the right balance and there is still room to adjust stats more.
For the Catacombs a player would need the following to truly max out:
These are the empirical min and max base damage values I’ve taken in eToS. When I say "base" I mean they don’t include enemy’s resistance ignored, critical hits and combat advantage; they also suppose the player has no mitigation at all. The range column indicates the difference between the average value and the min/max. Insidious Offer has -+60% range. Drider’s Slashing Darkness and Lord Jevahn Jhalvar’s Melee Attack have fixed values. For the rest of the attacks, If I have a lot of data the range is close to 4% (I’ve spent some time testing Venom Spit, but I have little data on Syndryth’s Lolth’s Wrath and Template). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fmC7zSY3CUm17c22gBrNS5TAQGRJAEYFHV6RKEMe8VU/edit?usp=sharing
Note: if the blue Spider manages to heal Syndryth, he will buff her base damage by 50% for 10 seconds.
I’ve also tested their combat advantage bonus and critical severity: - combat advantage is 15% - critical severity is 25% - they are additive with each other
These are some mobs HP, according to Priestess's Lolth's Wrath: Assassin 1944770 Blade Spider 1944770 Blademaster 1944770 Deathjump Spider 1944770 Lord Jevahn Jhalvar 11142600 Spiderling 233267 Spitting Spider 198277 Warrior 489860
Comments
But the idea of having numeric stats vs. base 5% (or 10% in the case of CA) is in my opinion needlessly confusing.
Finally, it makes me very sad that you re-scaled the stats but you didn't land on a more readable ratio. Why 500:1% instead of 100:1%? It would still leave far enough spread to play with for gear (and you could even have decimals on the back end for all we care). But it would have made everything so much neater. It's probably way too late to change, so this isn't really feedback heh
There are quite a few things I like about Mod 16. I like the new campaign, and the fact that solo gameplay is no longer totally trivial - Now I am less bored than I used to be. I like the counterstats in principle (although I have some reservations about the implementation) and I can see how it is good for the long-term viability of the game.
However, there is one thing I absolutely hate (the treatment of the primary abilities, STR/DEX/etc), and a few that I really dislike, most of which can be described as "dumbing down the game".
Consider the boons. Previously people had to make choices - sometimes hard choices - do I pick this or do I pick that. In some cases this was really tough, when you had to make a choice between two good boons - in other cases it was just plain annoying when you had to make a choice between two bad ones - you felt you worked hard and got nothing in return.
Still, there was complexity - it required thinking and understanding of how to build your character, and it allowed for variations.
Now....what we have is this:
The top two tiers allow some hard choices, but they are mostly dependent on class and role. The bottom 4 tiers should be pretty much the same for everyone. You skip the creature-specific boons at first and take everything else - no thinking required.
Later you can add the Undead boons - they are valid in several areas and then maybe cultists or demons, but that's it everyone will be picking the same - there is really no room for individual variations.
Quite frankly.....it's boring.
1. Players should still feel some control with their character, and be able to roll their stats. That's a good portion of character creation in D&D, and losing that is just... weird.
2. Each class should have +damage (and other such things) applied to the appropriate key stat (WIS for Clerics, INT for Wizards, STR for Fighters, DEX for Rangers and Rogues). I realize that it's likely far easier to code with just one set of stats to draw from for the bonuses, but from a lore / D&D perspective - it's a bit ridiculous that I have no reason to be increasing my WIS as a Cleric. More damage? No. More healing? No. Faster recovery? No....
Or, if sacred cows are important to us, ADD IN A DAMNED FIREBALL SPELL FOR WIZARDS I'm not bitter what are you talking about
Combined adds whatever it's value to everything; Crit chance, deflect, armor penetration, defense.... Everything. I suggested letting us choose between two or three stat arrays for ever every class.
If someone wants their Paladin to be a little stronger (strength highest), or a little tougher (constitution highest), or a little more charismatic or wise (charisma or wisdom highest) then let them make that choice up front.
If someone wants their Ranger to be stronger (strength highest) or more dexterous (dexterity highest) then let them make that choice.
Some classes, like Wizard, might not have an obvious second choice, but I think that dexterity can help everyone so maybe go that route, or even rearrange just the other stats... Intelligence would be the 18 in both arrays but the other stats might be ordered differently, so some wizards would be a little more dexterous while others would be more charismatic or might have a higher constitution.
It might not be much, but it would be something, and I think that asking for more engagement on the player's part during character creation is a good thing.
They could still open up with a recommended array and so people that wanted to take that could just click "accept" and move on, while others might want to hit the "reroll" option and look at what else is available.
Hi,
Could you explain us what is "Combined Rating" stat on all items?
Thx in advance,
Brew.
Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
Maaaaaaaybe that's going to cause confusion somewhere down the line?
If this is correct, aren't players going to end up with thousands of unavoidable stat points from necessary gear that do nothing at all? DPS with 15k Defense vs. mob with 24k Armor Penetration? Tank with 18k Combat Advantage vs. mob with 24k Awareness? I feel like I must be missing something, because this makes no sense to me.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Regardless of waste, I would aim to cap ArPen, Accuracy, and one of Crit/CA then pump Power. Not sure on defensive side, but I imagine tanks at least will stack HP with enough Defense to overcome enemy ArPen and cap DR.
Critical Strile, Combat Advantage, Defense and Deflect are the stats which have no effect untill your reach your target's opposing stats' level.
Armor Penetration, Accuracy, Crit Resist and Awareness are always useful even if you only have a few thousand points in them.
To be fair, the old system has shades of this, where incidental stats can be very close to useless in effect, but I think this takes it to the next level.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
First time I loaded on the preview server and I traded in enchants to reach a new balance, I was able to achieve 24k arpen/acc 56K+ crit and I had 60k+ power and 40k combat adv with the gear I had. I was not even BiS. I had mostly rank 11 and 12 enchantments, 14k iL on live. 10 levels later and I have more power and combat adv and I was looking at more defensive gear to cap those stats out too. I don't feel like there is this choice we have to make regarding what to focus on in regards to stats. In fact it seems easier now to cap out just by having rank 10s and gear handed out by leveling quests.
Bottom line, we are still in the same spot now as we are in mod 15, except it is much easier to hit that mark.
I think the monster's stat ratings should be increased, but at the same time either give us more options to get defensive stats so we don't all get one shot, or separate monster's defensive and offensive stats to have different values. Have some squishy glass cannon monsters, then tanky monsters that hit like wet noodles, and stuff in between. This would create some variety between monsters, but also give us some customization between players on how to allocate stats.
I'm more concerned with the fact that I don't think giving monsters all the same stat for all areas is particularly a good way to balance things.
All of that said we have regularly tried adjustments in different directions in order to find the right balance and there is still room to adjust stats more.
For the Catacombs a player would need the following to truly max out:
Combat Advantage = 60,000
Defense = 55,000
Deflect = 40,000
Critical Strike = 37,500
Armor Pen = 15,000
Critical Resist = 17,500
Awareness = 20,000
Accuracy = 15,000
For level 80 content the player would need:
Combat Advantage = 69,000
Defense = 64,000
Deflect = 49,000
Critical Strike = 46,500
Armor Pen = 24,000
Critical Resist = 26,500
Awareness = 29,000
Accuracy = 24,000
Then of course there is whatever you put towards hit points and power.
Edited to fix the Critical Resist and Awareness numbers.
Unless NPC's don't have the base 5% crit chance and 10% CA damage (which would be good to know) the maxed stats are for level 80 :
Critical Resist = 24,000 + 2,500 = 26,500
Awareness = 24,000 + 5,000 = 29,000
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