Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for because this is the major re-balancing of the Trickster Rogue class!
@balanced#2849 Bruh please invite me to one of your "Lets balance TR" Parties I wanna know what you guys drink/Smoke . Seems like you got some good stuff there,, to come with *THIS* and claim it to be a "balance".
Just so you know , This isnt April .....and if this is a joke, its not funny........
sweet, now my TR will suck in PvE because it supposedly was too good in PvP, a part of the game I never play.
IMHO, MMO's that incorporate PVP almost always screw up the game in PVE, almost always. Who gives a %$#@ what powers or abilities a class have in a team... but what if it is attacking my CW, oh its too powerful. O_o
lol they destroyed us, and gave gwf's a faster way to gain determination, like they had any issues with determination.
jesus
? destroyer always gave determination from dealing damage, the change made it so half the value can be gained without the capstone so that sentinel/instigator could be looked at, and destroyer capstone allows to reach the determination value from before. That's exactly the same thing than before for a destroyer.
don't overreact and please read the threads fully.
...so you gain half the advantage of one capstone while gaining 100% of the advantage of another???? And yet Impossible gets a 200X nerf.
Can someone smart confirm for... my friend... that the grumpy reactions are because of the nerfs to Power-looping via Courage Breaker, Whirlwind of Blades, and Press the Advantage? Cuz apart from those, which are obviously sizable, seems like some nice buffs to DPS in the feats (and Blade Flurry). I'd guess that for the average TR, this will make the learning curve easier, avg DPS higher... and for endgame 1-shotter power-looping TRs, it'll be a show-stopper?
TR are, for the most part, not buffers and are not good at AOE and they are also not tanks. They are best at 1:1 and need to mitigate/avoid damage as they are a melee character. Frankly they should be the #1 single target DPS dealer and boss killer.
Another "funny" idea for making PVE TRs desirable in MOD 15 end-game groups:
- Don't count the TRs as party members but as companions instead! Thus each of the 5 members of the group could trade their normal companion for a player TR companion/sidekick LOL. If this proves to be more efficient than their normal bonding pets, then TRs may have a spot in the parties as sidekicks
Ok. So I’m new to the game (less than 3 months playing). I always play rogues because they are fun. In NW, I don’t understand why the emphasis is on PVP rogues. PVE TR have no place. I wait hours to get into advanced dungeons because they don’t benefit other classes. Am I misinformed? Someone explain this to me so I’m educated properly if I am.
Maybe do something constructive like giving buffs to other classes (deflect at the bare min?) for being in stealth? Immunity to certain control effects? Toss a bone here. Not everyone enjoys PVP - I can’t even see how TR’s would be deemed OP in either state of gameplay.
Rogues hold a sacred place in a lot of people’s game play and yet not one MMORPG game can seem to get them right. What’s up with that?
you killed my TR sadistic why would you do such cruel thing . I play only TR if you do it I am not gonna waist my time on making new character . basicaly I kinda droping game if this goes live
Ok. So I’m new to the game (less than 3 months playing). I always play rogues because they are fun. In NW, I don’t understand why the emphasis is on PVP rogues. PVE TR have no place. I wait hours to get into advanced dungeons because they don’t benefit other classes. Am I misinformed? Someone explain this to me so I’m educated properly if I am.
Maybe do something constructive like giving buffs to other classes (deflect at the bare min?) for being in stealth? Immunity to certain control effects? Toss a bone here. Not everyone enjoys PVP - I can’t even see how TR’s would be deemed OP in either state of gameplay.
Rogues hold a sacred place in a lot of people’s game play and yet not one MMORPG game can seem to get them right. What’s up with that?
From what i heard most devs play pvp most of the time and rarely pve. I have no idea how true that is though.
Let's talk to the management! Not to the developers, they didn't decide that bullsh*...
/ironic_mode_on - Let mod15 be as announced!
Proposal for the next modules: - Nerf all DPS classes, and say the TR is back. "Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for ..." - Make contend so hard that endgame group need 2 or more hours to finisch Castle Never, yes not Ravenloft - Add new dps and buff class to milk the players again and again and ... /ironic_mode_off
@balanced#2849 we are waiting for you to say something we are not actually happy with this changes
Yeah, not getting a lot of dev feedback from the comments like on the other threads. I wonder why?
7
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited September 2018
Duelist's Flurry: Bleed damage lowered by ~40% - really almost half damage, why not lower 20% of the bleed damage and give tr combat advantage over bleeding targets? Smoke Bomb (Revamped): Damage reduced by 30% - really? now smoke bombs became HAMSTER bombs
Courage Breaker: Now slows the target by 70% (down from 90%) - only works for pvp uselless in pve Courage Breaker: Now places a 25% Damage Reduction Debuff on the target, +5% per rank - 40% damage debuff when we have tanks in game that can hold aggro well and can sustaing bosses damage, wont benefit party at all, we have shepards devotion buff x4/5 to cap damage resistances Courage Breaker: Now places a 12.5% Damage Resistance Reduction Debuff on the target, +2.5% per rank- seems ok Courage Breaker: No longer increases player power by 25% - why not give +8% damage increased at max rank (2%+2% each rank) Courage Breaker: Duration is now 8 seconds (down from 10 for PvE, up from 5 for PvP) - seems fine
Press the Advantage (Reworked): Now causes Impossible to Catch to increase your Combat Advantage damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for its duration. - why not +5% ca damage/+5% damage increased for its duration
Impossible to Catch: Base duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2) - why not 5s Impossible to Catch: Each rank now reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds - looks fine Impossible to Catch: Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 18) - looks fine Impossible to Catch: Stealthed: Now grants 25% Damage Resistance (down from 50%) - ok Impossible to Catch: Stealthed: Now grants 25% Movement Speed - why do we need this we already have movement buff from shepperds devotion and artificers persuation Impossible to Catch: Now grants 100% deflect (down from 20,000%) - tr no longer deflect damage now they have to sustain dmage lol 10,000% probably best option there
STOP CRYING! These changes are not that bad. I've tested them on preview, just git gud . Im 17.3k TR and rly on top in the pvp leaderboard... Although, I do not agree with the Impossible to Catch and Whirlwind of Blades changes.. PLIZ CHANGE THEM BACK OR RIOT
So you are geared to the hilt and are not feeling the nerf that bad. Hmm, I wonder why O_o
And dude, stop %$%# insulting people by telling them "STOP CRYING!" and my personal d-bag statement "git gud". Sorry, you really come off as a jerk, have no idea if you really are but your statements to others on the forum reflect that.
"Stealth and Stealth Regeneration have had a handful of adjustments to be less oppressive against other players but more consistent for the Trickster Rogue. " in other words, kill PvE because of PvP crybabies...
"All three Feat trees have had work done to them to make them more unique and competitive. " Competitive???? Show me how it works in PvE, please.
"Many At-will, encounter, class feature, and daily powers have been tweaked and updated to be more worthwhile." Where and for who????
Again and IT IS a feedback.... YOU ARE KILLING THE TR!
PvP must have it's own classes/powers. What's WRONG here is that PvE and PvP chars are the same!! It will never work nor be balanced and every time you mess it more and more.
STOP CRYING! These changes are not that bad. I've tested them on preview, just git gud . Im 17.3k TR and rly on top in the pvp leaderboard... Although, I do not agree with the Impossible to Catch and Whirlwind of Blades changes.. PLIZ CHANGE THEM BACK OR RIOT
So you are geared to the hilt and are not feeling the nerf that bad. Hmm, I wonder why O_o
And dude, stop %$%# insulting people by telling them "STOP CRYING!" and my personal d-bag statement "git gud". Sorry, you really come off as a jerk, have no idea if you really are but your statements to others on the forum reflect that.
Git gud is only valid when there's an apparent lack of skill.
TRs are nerfed so hard that even skill wont matter much.
My post seemed to have been deleted due to a typo... ok, will try this again...
Devs.... STOP LISTENING TO PVP CRY BABIES! Start making PvP and PvE 100% separated so that when you enter PvP you see a completely different screen. Every time you do this PvE players who often despise PvP suffer. This is garbage that you only seem to care about the PvP community who spend mega money on the game. What about your loyal PvE players who may not spend thousands of dollars but who many still pay money for VIP (myself included). Please start listening to the PvE people. Do any of you actually play the game? I'm beginning to wonder... some of these changes look good but the majority seem to be very bad because most of the players use the skills you are nerfting. Nerf 100% in PvP and don't touch PvE if it's going well. It sucks that TRs struggle to get top damage in dungeons, now you're making it worse. My Guardian can kill a boss in half the time as my TR... kinda messed up if you ask me... TR's are supposed to be assassins that slip in and out of combat fast and invisible slaying from behind. This is their purpose. If PvPers don't like that then again, separate the two builds 100% so you stop making PvE'ers suffer... I appreciate that you removed the requirement of PvP to level up a guild but now take it a step further and make it separate all together.
Then it's because the fundamental design created by your team did not foresee such ramifications. PVE/PVP skill balance being quite obviously not an easy thing to tackle has made it so games have adapted with techniques such having two exclusive sets of skills or modifiers (and you already have a few PVP modifiers in some skills, so why not just use those?).
And here's the kicker: Not only is the problem obvious; equally obvious are all the already tested solutions in other games.
Yet for some reason it's like we're blindly running into this "open secret" of an MMO dilemma when allowing for PVE and PVP. This really really REALLY obvious open secret.
So there wasn't at least some solution in design?
Was it hubris that prevented you from learning bits and pieces from successes and failures of other games' attempted solutions?
Gotta forge your one, proud, lonesome path? In the same way that TRs do?
I've had to retrain my TRs and help my husband rework his TRs over and over and over. Are you at least going to give 2 free retrains, 1 for each load out to compensate people? It's frustrating to be constantly forced into spending money to fix a toon rather than working to improve it steadily. I was up till 4am one night with the TR group on Discord and spend 4 million AD in game to fix my husbands TR... Now that he's been repaired, he's going to be unstable yet again... really? Why? All caused because some PvPers cry about how they're getting killed by TRs... Why did you hire actors, hire story writers, put so much work and content into this game only to be wasted? I enjoy leveling a toon from 1-70 by following quests. Basically what's been done is cast all of that effort aside for PvP... It must be hard to balance pleasing us and putting food on your tables but come on... fix things the right way, not the wrong way. If you can put so much effort into developing a storyline, would it be so hard to put effort into a PvP separation?
Been playing this game since the release on arc, these news made me really sad.
Years of going through "mad TR nerf coming up in next mod" this one actually hurts, and it hurts damn much.
There are pros and cons in every nerf/balance what you have done, but this one will affect hugely on rogue's daily basis.
As Galactic underwear stated earlier on, you really need to do some re-thinking these things. Why should you HAMSTER up PVE side of the game if it's been fine and dandy ( for me atleast )
Long story short; This is not balancing. This is far away from it.
After years of playing i have felt personally that this game is swimming in deep waters, by that i mean the game is slowly losing it's player count. This will not be the adrenaline shot to the playerbase, i can tell.
I will be doing some testing on preview test server, gonna get back here to continue the discussion.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11005773 ^ This right here proves three things; 1. Devs don't play the game at all. 2. They take no feedback at all from players. 3. They lie about listening to players and making changes based on what they say.
hmm dont think any of us TR players asked for this , we were happy as it is as after mod 5 we finally get to be even or bit more from other dpsers (yea SoD at start mod 14 was overrated but you fixed that after 1 week coz of ppl complains)
some of us (least i do ) have Sabo feats and WI paragon path on other loadouts as it makes TR more fun (again least for me)
any of you tested it before listed all the changes? and i mean the devs coz im sure there is one of you that play TR and others prolly have this class as an alt coz its either you love it or hate it.
im positive you have your mind set and from experience you rarly listen to the community players but if its worth a shot pls test it and reconsider this coz all the list of changes was may be a good idea 10 Mods ago but time changed , the game changed and we adjust and overcome throw since than .
Just going through the threads of the other class updates and its hilarious in a very painful way of the stark contrast of comments from them to the TR one. Heck, I don't even play a TR as my main, I do a OP and I am happy as hell with the changes I got. But TR changes seem draconian and for a class that was just barely accepted in end game after M14.
IDK, what are they comparing a TR to? They are suppose to be a 1:1 slaughterhouse that are hard to catch. The problem with this, as others have noted, is that creates problems in PVP. Well instead of constantly tweaking the classes, get rid of PVP. Just get rid of it. It never made any sense in the first place. A CW should be able to complete control a player and a TR should be able to completely kill one with little effort but that then seems so unfair to the ones getting controlled or killed so now these two classes are wacked all to hell in PVE to fix PVP problems. Just let them be what they were meant to be (outside my other rant of just getting rid of CW's altogether).
normally I don't post, but these changes effectively killed the game for me.
HAMSTER up the game for majority of pve players for a few pvp players (please don't chase the battle royale fad) is suicide for every game that tried it so far.
one thing for sure, I won't even do my VIP anymore.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11005773 ^ This right here proves three things; 1. Devs don't play the game at all. 2. They take no feedback at all from players. 3. They lie about listening to players and making changes based on what they say.
Thanks.
Yeah sad to see the Dev post their 'ta-da!' look how we've 'fixed' TR official post AND link HERE without a single dev comment in this post. I'm about to start playing for the evening and I don't want to login because I know this is coming and it's making me sad.
Please can Mr Balanced post here and defend himself?
As far as I can see they can achieve what they want to achieve and leave WWoB and ITC alone. We'd still be viable, a tweak to Lurkers Assault would be lovely! Nerf stealth on players if you have to, but leave our PvE environment alone. I love my TR, I've got one of each class and I enjoy the TR the most, making him suck will make me sad, please don't make me sad.
To sum it up. TRs were waiting for a tweak to allow them to compete with other DPS classes for almost 10 MODs now. Finally afters years of waiting they are punished for still being around and not quitting their class.
Why is this? I would guess that devs only care about PVP. Why don't you put a disclaimer at the character creation page? Such as: the TR class is designed for PVP only purposes, use for PVE at your own risk!
OK we get it, give us the class reroll token and lets get this over with.
In the years to come people will talk about a class called TR that was rarely seen in end-game content, but none has ever seen again since November 2018. Now only their close relative survives among the dwindling PVP tribes, the PVP TR ...
Comments
I wanna know what you guys drink/Smoke . Seems like you got some good stuff there,, to come with *THIS*
and claim it to be a "balance".
Just so you know , This isnt April .....and if this is a joke, its not funny........
- Don't count the TRs as party members but as companions instead! Thus each of the 5 members of the group could trade their normal companion for a player TR companion/sidekick LOL. If this proves to be more efficient than their normal bonding pets, then TRs may have a spot in the parties as sidekicks
I am joking obviously
Maybe do something constructive like giving buffs to other classes (deflect at the bare min?) for being in stealth? Immunity to certain control effects? Toss a bone here. Not everyone enjoys PVP - I can’t even see how TR’s would be deemed OP in either state of gameplay.
Rogues hold a sacred place in a lot of people’s game play and yet not one MMORPG game can seem to get them right. What’s up with that?
/ironic_mode_on
- Let mod15 be as announced!
Proposal for the next modules:
- Nerf all DPS classes, and say the TR is back. "Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for ..."
- Make contend so hard that endgame group need 2 or more hours to finisch Castle Never, yes not Ravenloft
- Add new dps and buff class to milk the players again and again and ...
/ironic_mode_off
It's not funny when it comes true.
Smoke Bomb (Revamped): Damage reduced by 30% - really? now smoke bombs became HAMSTER bombs
Courage Breaker: Now slows the target by 70% (down from 90%) - only works for pvp uselless in pve
Courage Breaker: Now places a 25% Damage Reduction Debuff on the target, +5% per rank - 40% damage debuff when we have tanks in game that can hold aggro well and can sustaing bosses damage, wont benefit party at all, we have shepards devotion buff x4/5 to cap damage resistances
Courage Breaker: Now places a 12.5% Damage Resistance Reduction Debuff on the target, +2.5% per rank- seems ok
Courage Breaker: No longer increases player power by 25% - why not give +8% damage increased at max rank (2%+2% each rank)
Courage Breaker: Duration is now 8 seconds (down from 10 for PvE, up from 5 for PvP) - seems fine
Press the Advantage (Reworked): Now causes Impossible to Catch to increase your Combat Advantage damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for its duration. - why not +5% ca damage/+5% damage increased for its duration
Impossible to Catch: Base duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2) - why not 5s
Impossible to Catch: Each rank now reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds - looks fine
Impossible to Catch: Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 18) - looks fine
Impossible to Catch: Stealthed: Now grants 25% Damage Resistance (down from 50%) - ok
Impossible to Catch: Stealthed: Now grants 25% Movement Speed - why do we need this we already have movement buff from shepperds devotion and artificers persuation
Impossible to Catch: Now grants 100% deflect (down from 20,000%) - tr no longer deflect damage now they have to sustain dmage lol 10,000% probably best option there
And dude, stop %$%# insulting people by telling them "STOP CRYING!" and my personal d-bag statement "git gud". Sorry, you really come off as a jerk, have no idea if you really are but your statements to others on the forum reflect that.
in other words, kill PvE because of PvP crybabies...
"All three Feat trees have had work done to them to make them more unique and competitive. "
Competitive???? Show me how it works in PvE, please.
"Many At-will, encounter, class feature, and daily powers have been tweaked and updated to be more worthwhile."
Where and for who????
Again and IT IS a feedback.... YOU ARE KILLING THE TR!
PvP must have it's own classes/powers. What's WRONG here is that PvE and PvP chars are the same!! It will never work nor be balanced and every time you mess it more and more.
TRs are nerfed so hard that even skill wont matter much.
Better move to another MMO game.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Devs.... STOP LISTENING TO PVP CRY BABIES! Start making PvP and PvE 100% separated so that when you enter PvP you see a completely different screen. Every time you do this PvE players who often despise PvP suffer. This is garbage that you only seem to care about the PvP community who spend mega money on the game. What about your loyal PvE players who may not spend thousands of dollars but who many still pay money for VIP (myself included). Please start listening to the PvE people. Do any of you actually play the game? I'm beginning to wonder... some of these changes look good but the majority seem to be very bad because most of the players use the skills you are nerfting. Nerf 100% in PvP and don't touch PvE if it's going well. It sucks that TRs struggle to get top damage in dungeons, now you're making it worse. My Guardian can kill a boss in half the time as my TR... kinda messed up if you ask me... TR's are supposed to be assassins that slip in and out of combat fast and invisible slaying from behind. This is their purpose. If PvPers don't like that then again, separate the two builds 100% so you stop making PvE'ers suffer... I appreciate that you removed the requirement of PvP to level up a guild but now take it a step further and make it separate all together.
~Skyye Lakara, Ghost Wolf Warriors~
Then it's because the fundamental design created by your team did not foresee such ramifications. PVE/PVP skill balance being quite obviously not an easy thing to tackle has made it so games have adapted with techniques such having two exclusive sets of skills or modifiers (and you already have a few PVP modifiers in some skills, so why not just use those?).
And here's the kicker: Not only is the problem obvious; equally obvious are all the already tested solutions in other games.
Yet for some reason it's like we're blindly running into this "open secret" of an MMO dilemma when allowing for PVE and PVP. This really really REALLY obvious open secret.
So there wasn't at least some solution in design?
Was it hubris that prevented you from learning bits and pieces from successes and failures of other games' attempted solutions?
Gotta forge your one, proud, lonesome path? In the same way that TRs do?
~Skyye Lakara, Ghost Wolf Warriors~
Years of going through "mad TR nerf coming up in next mod" this one actually hurts, and it hurts damn much.
There are pros and cons in every nerf/balance what you have done, but this one will affect hugely on rogue's daily basis.
As Galactic underwear stated earlier on, you really need to do some re-thinking these things. Why should you HAMSTER up PVE side of the game if it's been fine and dandy ( for me atleast )
Long story short; This is not balancing. This is far away from it.
After years of playing i have felt personally that this game is swimming in deep waters, by that i mean the game is slowly losing it's player count. This will not be the adrenaline shot to the playerbase, i can tell.
I will be doing some testing on preview test server, gonna get back here to continue the discussion.
Edit; im 17.5k
- Kryptonite -
^ This right here proves three things;
1. Devs don't play the game at all.
2. They take no feedback at all from players.
3. They lie about listening to players and making changes based on what they say.
Thanks.
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some of us (least i do ) have Sabo feats and WI paragon path on other loadouts as it makes TR more fun (again least for me)
any of you tested it before listed all the changes? and i mean the devs coz im sure there is one of you that play TR and others prolly have this class as an alt coz its either you love it or hate it.
im positive you have your mind set and from experience you rarly listen to the community players but if its worth a shot pls test it and reconsider this coz all the list of changes was may be a good idea 10 Mods ago but time changed , the game changed and we adjust and overcome throw since than .
dont take the game from us TR community!!
IDK, what are they comparing a TR to? They are suppose to be a 1:1 slaughterhouse that are hard to catch. The problem with this, as others have noted, is that creates problems in PVP. Well instead of constantly tweaking the classes, get rid of PVP. Just get rid of it. It never made any sense in the first place. A CW should be able to complete control a player and a TR should be able to completely kill one with little effort but that then seems so unfair to the ones getting controlled or killed so now these two classes are wacked all to hell in PVE to fix PVP problems. Just let them be what they were meant to be (outside my other rant of just getting rid of CW's altogether).
HAMSTER up the game for majority of pve players for a few pvp players (please don't chase the battle royale fad) is suicide for every game that tried it so far.
one thing for sure, I won't even do my VIP anymore.
/played NWN since the beginning.
I'm about to start playing for the evening and I don't want to login because I know this is coming and it's making me sad.
Please can Mr Balanced post here and defend himself?
As far as I can see they can achieve what they want to achieve and leave WWoB and ITC alone. We'd still be viable, a tweak to Lurkers Assault would be lovely!
Nerf stealth on players if you have to, but leave our PvE environment alone. I love my TR, I've got one of each class and I enjoy the TR the most, making him suck will make me sad, please don't make me sad.
Why is this? I would guess that devs only care about PVP. Why don't you put a disclaimer at the character creation page? Such as: the TR class is designed for PVP only purposes, use for PVE at your own risk!
OK we get it, give us the class reroll token and lets get this over with.
In the years to come people will talk about a class called TR that was rarely seen in end-game content, but none has ever seen again since November 2018. Now only their close relative survives among the dwindling PVP tribes, the PVP TR ...