snip ...but I can't tell which people are complaining because they don't want to actually figure something out again (or wait for someone to tell them what to do in a guide) or if it really is dead... snap
This is coming from a player who wrote the guide, TRs core mechanics were played with in this rework, probably with good intentions but it totally crippled the class because it broke the things which TR relies the most on - Daily abilities which increase Power.
Using different feat tree or something instead ITC or Oppressive Darkness wont change anything since it isnt relevant to core mechanism of the class. Reading the guide might help you understand why these changes are so bad.
I'll take you up on that. link me your guide. I get the jist though, no power gain on CB sucks, and the 40% damage is less than power from gobs of enemies on WoB. but how bad is that difference? drop in bleeds is concerning, but to do the other buffs make up for it? I guess i just always have a "can do" attitude.
The difference amounts to a 50% drop or more in dps for end game TRs. It’s not that we are opposed to figuring new things out. Please understand that some of the TRs on here have been figuring things out on TRs for years and years. The changes we object to are changes that affect the endgame playability (dps) in all feat trees whether you play Sabo, Scoundrel, or Exe. It is fine if you don’t use the tools we have found that allow our damage to be competitive with other DPS classes, but if you do, this will be seriously detrimental to our damage, and therefore, our desirablity in endgame groups and dungeons.
snip ...but I can't tell which people are complaining because they don't want to actually figure something out again (or wait for someone to tell them what to do in a guide) or if it really is dead... snap
This is coming from a player who wrote the guide, TRs core mechanics were played with in this rework, probably with good intentions but it totally crippled the class because it broke the things which TR relies the most on - Daily abilities which increase Power.
Using different feat tree or something instead ITC or Oppressive Darkness wont change anything since it isnt relevant to core mechanism of the class. Reading the guide might help you understand why these changes are so bad.
I'll take you up on that. link me your guide. I get the jist though, no power gain on CB sucks, and the 40% damage is less than power from gobs of enemies on WoB. but how bad is that difference? drop in bleeds is concerning, but to do the other buffs make up for it? I guess i just always have a "can do" attitude.
The difference amounts to a 50% drop or more in dps for end game TRs. It’s not that we are opposed to figuring new things out. Please understand that some of the TRs on here have been figuring things out on TRs for years and years. The changes we object to are changes that affect the endgame playability (dps) in all feat trees whether you play Sabo, Scoundrel, or Exe. It is fine if you don’t use the tools we have found that allow our damage to be competitive with other DPS classes, but if you do, this will be seriously detrimental to our damage, and therefore, our desirablity in endgame groups and dungeons.
i have read plenty of guides for ideas, so i'd be lying to say i didn't pick up tips from peeps online, guildies, the general community and i thank you all for it. In fact im sure someone somewhere has my exact build somewhere and did it first and does it better. Just a simple message, to those who figured it out...keep on figuring it out. Keep on providing constructive criticism and saying stuff that cryptic can do and letting cryptic know what's up - that's cool. Just the people screaming i effing quit and crying...good lawd. Thanks for the link btw.
I took my 14.5k TR onto the preview server. I wish I hadn't. I solo River district sHEs regularly on live, so as that was where I spawned I thought i'd have a go at one. It was like being a noobie again, nothing died except almost me, 3 times... I planned to go to Chult as I'd just been running round Chult on live this morning, but the River District experience rather upset me. I don't really care about being the most uberist ever, but please, not this... It was like trying to solo my CW only with 4k more item level that wasn't doing a whole lot for me.
You know, I actually put real money into my TR beginning about 2 months ago. Now you cut their damage in as much as half! I want a refund, or at least invent a class change token where we can transfer our existing toon and their equipment or equivalent to a new class. I am new to Cryptic in general as I have only played for a few months, but how can you feel justified rotating different classes in and out of effectiveness? Customers pay for a service under one set of rules then you change the rules thus devaluing what they spent.
So now with SoD and bleeds doing half the damage, we will drop to one of the less desirable dps classes. It's not dramatic to state that it makes the TR worthless, because what else are they good at? AoE damage? Buffing the group? Ranged attacks? Ha, you took away the one thing that let us contribute to a party.
Like others, It makes no sense to balance abilities internally within the TR class by bringing the good stuff down to the crappy level of everything else. That just devalued the TR vs EVERY other class. Seriously, I spent two months and money building a character to fast track it to end game and got really really close then you kill it. I won't be fooled again. A game isn't worth the money if the company make whimsical changes that make it all disappear over night.
Well, TRs are clearly going back to the "not wanted" in PvE. I do not see end-game groups wanting TRs as the primary DPS any more.
If this was prompted by the "TRs are too strong in PvP", then why, why not just make a change to a few key powers, making their effects different depending on whether they were affecting other players (in PvP) or regular mobs (in PvE?
This would have made PvP a bit more balanced, while still kept TRs as viable primary DPSers in PvE.
Is someone getting paid to basically destroy the game to get everyone to move over to the new M:tG game?
To me its more like TRs are going from not wanted very much to not wanted at all. I dont see big desire for TRs in PVE right now let alone with the preview changes I mean you dont see people asking for TRs for a group right now hardly ever. As far as pvp they could change the way abilities function in pvp whithout changing how they work in pvp if they wanted to. So this has to be either an intentional kill the rogues or otherwise incompetence.
Silence from the developer's end is almost deafening.
You do have to remember that they posted these changes for people to look at right before they left Friday afternoon. Then, like the rest of the world, they took the weekend off. So getting back today they have pages and pages of feedback across many topics to read, digest, discuss and figure out how to respond to ....
Oh, and somewhere in there they actually have to spend some time working on the numerous known issues with mod 15 too. Give then a few days and see where this ends up.
Well done Devs. You just destroyed the tr for low item level players both pve and pvp. Those changes will not hurt high item level pvp tr's tho. Thank god i only play neverwinter once a month or something lol.
please don't do this to us... my DO is dead too, I've got nothing left in this game, No one will ask for a TR. I am shy of 18k, and even today do not feel adequate in dungeons.. we are DEAD Actually embarrassed to ask to join groups if this goes ahead, I guess I have fashion to look forward too, and mastering cloak tower... I’ll quit.
Heres my personal take on all these changes. And as a content creator (Galactic underwear ) I find these changes to greatly diminish my wanting to create guides, content, and how to videos for Tr's.. most content creators for tr's would feel the same.. Anyways down to business.
First of all , why would you even consider removing every single ability and option we have as TR'S, to self buff ? are we even considered a dps class if these change go through to live ?
2 - I remember a community stream where FOSS, said , '' TR's need to be top dps'ers on single target due to us being so squishy and being a melee class, we need to dodge/roll many times to not die ( can't dps if you're dead ), as a result of all the dodging /rolling, we lose dps, since we can't attack in this state .. So what changed your minds?
3 - I think you all are well aware we are a DPS class, and not tanks/healers/buffers , so removing all our dps abilities would just make us a support dps class with minimal impact as dps'ers, we would end up debuffing, with wicked reminder ,sly flourish and Courage breaker rather than providing any sort of help dps wise on single targets.
4- Tr's have always had issues being invited to groups, the norm was to ask for gwf, but never a tr. we got our few months of glory only to have it ripped apart to such an extent that i know many are considering quiting and just giving up with neverwinter , and if you add the huge ban wave that happened along with these changes, than you can see how a mass exodus is very possible ( my youtube comments on these changes are overwhelming and adamant about giving this game up ) i myself love the game, as do most of us, and rather see it survive than crash and burn..
5- I'm not saying we didnt need some sort of nerf, to some abilities, i think we needed some nerfing in some areas, but this is overkill and unwaranted . Please re-think these huge nerfs, or trust me, the end result will not be in your favor.
6- Trying to balance all trees in the feat tree by destroying executioner isnt exactly a game plan IMO. ITC and COURAGE BREAKER ,are our main self buffing powers, adding WWOB to that mix and artificers, made us be competitive and usefull. Power looping was the only way we could achieve our goal of being relevant and wanted in groups. You could of just slightly reduced sod, id be okay with it staying at 50% and leave the rest as it was. That way we would still be usefull and competitive in groups. ( don't give me that one phasing nonesense since i know 5 different classes who can one phase, that comes down to skill and group compositions )
7- If these changes persist, and reach live, we will be doing 50% or more, less damage than we did in the past few months. I find that unacceptable, let alone the players who have spent thousands of dollars investing in the game and the tr itself. As a business i think this isnt to your advantage..
8- And to end this , i would like to ask you developers to really re-think this, and take a different approach to balancing. many really good number crunchers/testers and awesome people in here, have given you the right idea ( like tremeliques, mickeypoo, and blur. ) i hope you take the advice given and do something about it that is productive , that will want players to continue playing, enjoy the game, and spend money on it.. like i said earlier, sure, nerf some things, rebalance some powers, but please don't kill the class we have come to love and enjoy for so many years..
Ps. wouldnt you rather be remembered as the team who made neverwinter great again? instead of the ones who killed it? seems harsh, but not far from the truth.
Silence from the developer's end is almost deafening.
You do have to remember that they posted these changes for people to look at right before they left Friday afternoon. Then, like the rest of the world, they took the weekend off. So getting back today they have pages and pages of feedback across many topics to read, digest, discuss and figure out how to respond to ....
Oh, and somewhere in there they actually have to spend some time working on the numerous known issues with mod 15 too. Give then a few days and see where this ends up.
Ordinarily I'd agree with you Winter, but they've been responding to other threads every day following the announcement. e.g. (from the DC thread)...
I wanted to pop in to say that this is being read through, still working through the 250 responses so it may not be until tomorrow that there is an actual response but I did want to let everyone know the thread isn't being ignored.
Acknowledgement of the TR community's concerns would go along way. @noworries#8859
I agree with the thought of @skatopsixos7 in the next mod you devs are destroying a class. I started playing at Neverwinter last year. I've always been discarded in the queues, because everyone preferred other class same HR, GWF.
Perhaps the TR is too strong now, But the Peanut community worked hard to help all trs. We do not deserve this treatment, ok nerf but this mod15 destroy the TR, think again about this nerf.
I’ve played a Tr for a few years and getting into pug groups to run dungeons was painfull as a Tr while leveling up, and now it’s great, all classes are getting a run it’s 99% easier to get a run if you friends are not on if this goes ahead I’m not just changing classes I’m changing games I’ve got everything I need for my Tr love the play style of the class but if I’m going to be a support dps class I’m like the majority of the others and finished
These changes are not a balancing of the class, but destroying it. Please avoid these errors. It is right to nerfy the class but so it is exaggerated is like having a new pg. From module 5/6 you did not see a strong TR in pve. We all waited a long time (years) and now in a few months destroyed...
SoD (Xbox)
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
out of all the changes... I am most unpleased with the increase it takes to rebuild stealth (12) seconds I am also unpleased with our mobility nerf (we lost movement speed with sneak attack and skillful infiltrator) I build my TR around stealth and speed, not power. All that is null and void now. Yes I saw there is a boon for mobility boost in mod 15 but it falls way short of how much we lose with your proposed changes.. TR should be fast..... stealthy...
when will beta mode end?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Since I can’t add much more regarding how punishing this nerf is, I just want to be sure you know that most TRs are not happy at all. So, I will leave here one more comment, from someone that spent both time and money in this game.
I have played TR since early 2014, I had a break once because I couldn’t find anything to do in the game and I am now a proud 17.8k pve TR. Like anyone who wants to play end-game content, I am exe. Now, what I have learnt this last mod, is that not that much is dependent on me. Even with all my rotations in the right place, I had TONG runs from 13min to 1h13min (I must add that I rarely do power loop since it does not seem fluid enough to my game style). I have one phased bosses, and failed the same bosses just the next run with a different group (I do use a lot the random system). I say this because it seems that you are basing these changes on videos of TRs doing lots of damage. These videos are made with highly optimized parties of knowledgeable support players (and OP dependent). Furthermore, similar videos are available for any dps class (+ GF).
Yeah, TRs do lots of damage, they could even use a nerf, but not like this. You don’t seem to be able to make your mind about things, and that is very telling about the way you work… I mean, how many times have you revamped SOD? You added a DOT portion to it, I thought, because now every single boss you add to the game, suddenly stops receiving damage many times during a fight, leading to SOD being wasted (since it is a 6 sec delayed source of damage). And now, you take that. Why? Really, why? Why did you add it then? What changed?
Also, why take every viable way of a TR to buff their own power? Couldn’t you come up with any other way to avoid the power loop? If that was the case you have decent suggestions in this thread, please acknowledge them.
Finally, I really don’t mind changing paragon path as I have played sabo in the past. However, please make it competitive to other DPS classes (there is a reason why players that can go past Chult are executioners). It seems that these changes were made by an antisocial and introvert dev that wants nothing to do with running dungeons.
And yes, I might also pause the game if you murder my TR, since my plan B was a DC DO (that I created during the “sry, no TR” times).
I've been playing TR as main since the beginning of this game and this is my first ever post concerning the changes to this class.
As a lot of experienced players have mentioned before, the changes that you are making right now will absolutely make the class deal sub par dps which will eliminate the class from obtaining a place at end game content.
While i appreciate what you did with gloaming cut and am fine with the bleed damage reduction by 40% and overall damage reduction from duellists flurry and even the shadow of demise changes, the fact that you eliminate all of our means (WoB, CB and ITC) to gain power is what hurts the fundamental aspect of how the mechanics of the class work in doing damage.
TR needs recovery and crit stacks to do proper damage. Hence we cant just stack power and hope to gain anything out of it. If you would observe how dungeon runs go, a TR needs to do substantially more amount of things in a very short period in the right order with proper if not impeccable timing to be able to stay competitive with other dps classes. just because a handful of TRs in the server are able to manage to out dps the other classes does not make it enough reason to completely nerf the fundamental mechanics at this proportion. Even where TR stands right now, most TRs at the same Item Level are most likely to be out dpsed by a GWF at the same position when all other variables are kept constant simply because the mechanics of this class are more complicated and it took a certain number of people a lot of time and research to figure out how to optimise the damage output.
What i'd propose is making WoB power gain have depreciating results upto 5 targets. So first target gives full power as now, second one gives less and so on. Additionally, any power gained during the affected time will only be half as effective than what it is right now. That way it is still a solid nerf, without taking the class out of the dps scene.
Also, it has been pointed out many times, that smoke bomb interaction with AoC is what does the high damage. it is foolish to reduce the base damage of the power itself without fixing this interaction. You should fix this and increase the base damage of the power so it is still viable.
So yeah.. there's powerlooping apparently... which I imagine some end game players no doubt use to amazing ability.. But what about the casual players? The players who are around the 12k IL Mark? The ones who invested so much time and likely money to get their toon to where it is? Nerfing all these abilities will have a huge impact on us. - wouldn't merely stopping certain powers stacking prevent the looping without the huge nerfs to the abilities which actually do damage? There are many solo players and many players like myself who even though playing pretty much daily still are not at a level to run end game/ T3 dungeons as we just can't compete damage wise against others.. I have a hard enough time just running through chult at times... now I feel ill be pretty much just having to run away from all encounters (IF my stealth actually comes up with the longer wait time too ).
Please just remember there is a vast mix of level and ability players on this game... not everyone can get crazy dps as it is... and now you're nerfing pretty much everything I use in an attempt to actually do some damage
I mean if I'm missing something, I'd honestly love the devs to point me in the right direction.. but arnt TRs supposed to be a dps class??? We can't tank, heal/ or buff others... so what exactly do we have left as a dps class which can't do dps?
If you gave every TR the option to convert his/her character to another class, how many end game PVE TRs do you think would be left in the game? I am talking about a complete conversion (campaign progression, equivalent gear etc). Just something to think about ...
Post edited by promytheas on
1
kalimoucho44Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 28Arc User
Most Tr don't want ALL this changes.
Please listen to your community of players.
There's a lot of posts from experts tr, asking for some changes (and accepting nerfs for some powers).
TR is far from overpowered like some want to believe, it needs a whole lot of time and currency to develop into a competing dps, and learning the pinnacle of tweaks for that real high damage output people see and talk about is only reached by very view. This is not balancing, this is bowing to those who never learn but just complain, and showing those with dedication nothing but the finger.
You are destroying TR's. This has been a long process going back several years and we have stuck with you because you kept promising you would fix it. You did a slight fix last mod. Not a rework like all other classes have had and now this.
That deep well of trust is now empty....
When the the Lostmouth set was nerfed, you provided a vendor for players to trade out their equipment to something else. That vendor is still there and operational.
This is far worse.
The fact that this is because a very few TR's who are highly geared, highly experienced, supported by an entire party buffing then can reach levels of damage output equal to an average GWF who in moderately equipped in the hands of an average gamer sounds too ridiculous to be believed but looks to be true. What then is the role of the TR if not "a force of sudden and most certain death." It certainly will not be "devastating" attacks... Traps were effectively thrown out a while back so there is NO reason for someone to take a TR into a party and that is how it is now unless you are in the upper 1% of TR's in the game. When the changes coming go into effect not even the 1% will be invited.
We know what is driving this and it is PVP. Most of us never play PVP. We do not care about PVP. Either eliminate PVP or PVE, separate them completely or eliminate the TR class and give us a method to transfer over to some class.
If this goes thru you must allow those with TR's to use that vendor or some other method for us to switch over or you will see all of us walk away from any of the games your company makes forever. Those that know TR's know just how damning these changes are going to be. We wonder how is it that others do not who are supposed to be the experts.
You are killing this class. Get it over with and give us a life boat like you did with the Lostmouth vendor.
Duelist's Flurry: Final combo now lasts for 6 attacks, instead of 9 Duelist's Flurry: Final combo's animation time has been halved (related to the above)
I really like the long duration cause this means i'm immune to most control effects and often use this as a mechanic. Related with this
Sneak Attack: Increases your Movement Speed and Recharge Speed by an additional 5% per rank (down from 10%)
Skillful Infiltrator: Base Run speed increased to 7.5% at rank 1 (from 5%) Skillful Infiltrator: Run speed per rank reduced to 2.5% (from 5%)
These whole changes feels like penalization in PvE while they are made for regulating PvP. For sure it is easier to equalize things for both modes (i don't care for any PvP at all) but this doesn't mean i have to like it.
Comments
Here is a link to the guide. Read it, because there is a lot of information there that will help. https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Dwtx9Or-UOhrZOKwOWz8_O_Yzu_mX3Q5xE-QX6OkGA/edit?usp=sharing
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for .... Mod. 15: TR - 50% dps = R.I.P
It was like being a noobie again, nothing died except almost me, 3 times... I planned to go to Chult as I'd just been running round Chult on live this morning, but the River District experience rather upset me.
I don't really care about being the most uberist ever, but please, not this... It was like trying to solo my CW only with 4k more item level that wasn't doing a whole lot for me.
So now with SoD and bleeds doing half the damage, we will drop to one of the less desirable dps classes. It's not dramatic to state that it makes the TR worthless, because what else are they good at? AoE damage? Buffing the group? Ranged attacks? Ha, you took away the one thing that let us contribute to a party.
Like others, It makes no sense to balance abilities internally within the TR class by bringing the good stuff down to the crappy level of everything else. That just devalued the TR vs EVERY other class. Seriously, I spent two months and money building a character to fast track it to end game and got really really close then you kill it. I won't be fooled again. A game isn't worth the money if the company make whimsical changes that make it all disappear over night.
Oh, and somewhere in there they actually have to spend some time working on the numerous known issues with mod 15 too. Give then a few days and see where this ends up.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
This is a very crazy nerf. We should discuss this issue together.
You have to take into account the wishes of the players.
Those changes will not hurt high item level pvp tr's tho.
Thank god i only play neverwinter once a month or something lol.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Actually embarrassed to ask to join groups if this goes ahead, I guess I have fashion to look forward too, and mastering cloak tower... I’ll quit.
And as a content creator (Galactic underwear ) I find these changes to greatly diminish my wanting to create guides,
content, and how to videos for Tr's.. most content creators for tr's would feel the same..
Anyways down to business.
First of all , why would you even consider removing every single ability and option we have as TR'S, to self buff ?
are we even considered a dps class if these change go through to live ?
2 - I remember a community stream where FOSS, said , '' TR's need to be top dps'ers on single target due to us being so squishy and being a melee class, we need to dodge/roll many times to not die ( can't dps if you're dead ), as a result of all the dodging /rolling, we lose dps, since we can't attack in this state .. So what changed your minds?
3 - I think you all are well aware we are a DPS class, and not tanks/healers/buffers , so removing all our dps abilities
would just make us a support dps class with minimal impact as dps'ers, we would end up debuffing, with wicked reminder ,sly flourish and Courage breaker rather than providing any sort of help dps wise on single targets.
4- Tr's have always had issues being invited to groups, the norm was to ask for gwf, but never a tr.
we got our few months of glory only to have it ripped apart to such an extent that i know many are considering quiting
and just giving up with neverwinter , and if you add the huge ban wave that happened along with these changes, than you can see how a mass exodus is very possible ( my youtube comments on these changes are overwhelming and adamant about giving this game up )
i myself love the game, as do most of us, and rather see it survive than crash and burn..
5- I'm not saying we didnt need some sort of nerf, to some abilities, i think we needed some nerfing in some areas,
but this is overkill and unwaranted . Please re-think these huge nerfs, or trust me, the end result will not be in your favor.
6- Trying to balance all trees in the feat tree by destroying executioner isnt exactly a game plan IMO.
ITC and COURAGE BREAKER ,are our main self buffing powers, adding WWOB to that mix and artificers, made us be competitive and usefull.
Power looping was the only way we could achieve our goal of being relevant and wanted in groups.
You could of just slightly reduced sod, id be okay with it staying at 50% and leave the rest as it was.
That way we would still be usefull and competitive in groups. ( don't give me that one phasing nonesense since i know 5 different classes who can one phase, that comes down to skill and group compositions )
7- If these changes persist, and reach live, we will be doing 50% or more, less damage than we did in the past few months.
I find that unacceptable, let alone the players who have spent thousands of dollars investing in the game and the tr itself.
As a business i think this isnt to your advantage..
8- And to end this , i would like to ask you developers to really re-think this, and take a different approach to balancing.
many really good number crunchers/testers and awesome people in here, have given you the right idea ( like tremeliques, mickeypoo, and blur. ) i hope you take the advice given and do something about it that is productive , that will want players to continue playing, enjoy the game, and spend money on it..
like i said earlier, sure, nerf some things, rebalance some powers, but please don't kill the class we have come to love and enjoy for so many years..
Ps. wouldnt you rather be remembered as the team who made neverwinter great again?
instead of the ones who killed it? seems harsh, but not far from the truth.
Regards
Galactic underwear.
e.g. (from the DC thread)... Acknowledgement of the TR community's concerns would go along way. @noworries#8859
Perhaps the TR is too strong now, But the Peanut community worked hard to help all trs. We do not deserve this treatment, ok nerf but this mod15 destroy the TR, think again about this nerf.
Kind Regards,
Kirito (PS4).
SoD (Xbox)
I am most unpleased with the increase it takes to rebuild stealth (12) seconds
I am also unpleased with our mobility nerf (we lost movement speed with sneak attack and skillful infiltrator)
I build my TR around stealth and speed, not power. All that is null and void now.
Yes I saw there is a boon for mobility boost in mod 15 but it falls way short of how much we lose with your proposed changes..
TR should be fast..... stealthy...
when will beta mode end?
I have played TR since early 2014, I had a break once because I couldn’t find anything to do in the game and I am now a proud 17.8k pve TR. Like anyone who wants to play end-game content, I am exe.
Now, what I have learnt this last mod, is that not that much is dependent on me. Even with all my rotations in the right place, I had TONG runs from 13min to 1h13min (I must add that I rarely do power loop since it does not seem fluid enough to my game style). I have one phased bosses, and failed the same bosses just the next run with a different group (I do use a lot the random system). I say this because it seems that you are basing these changes on videos of TRs doing lots of damage. These videos are made with highly optimized parties of knowledgeable support players (and OP dependent). Furthermore, similar videos are available for any dps class (+ GF).
Yeah, TRs do lots of damage, they could even use a nerf, but not like this. You don’t seem to be able to make your mind about things, and that is very telling about the way you work… I mean, how many times have you revamped SOD? You added a DOT portion to it, I thought, because now every single boss you add to the game, suddenly stops receiving damage many times during a fight, leading to SOD being wasted (since it is a 6 sec delayed source of damage). And now, you take that. Why? Really, why? Why did you add it then? What changed?
Also, why take every viable way of a TR to buff their own power? Couldn’t you come up with any other way to avoid the power loop? If that was the case you have decent suggestions in this thread, please acknowledge them.
Finally, I really don’t mind changing paragon path as I have played sabo in the past. However, please make it competitive to other DPS classes (there is a reason why players that can go past Chult are executioners). It seems that these changes were made by an antisocial and introvert dev that wants nothing to do with running dungeons.
And yes, I might also pause the game if you murder my TR, since my plan B was a DC DO (that I created during the “sry, no TR” times).
As a lot of experienced players have mentioned before, the changes that you are making right now will absolutely make the class deal sub par dps which will eliminate the class from obtaining a place at end game content.
While i appreciate what you did with gloaming cut and am fine with the bleed damage reduction by 40% and overall damage reduction from duellists flurry and even the shadow of demise changes, the fact that you eliminate all of our means (WoB, CB and ITC) to gain power is what hurts the fundamental aspect of how the mechanics of the class work in doing damage.
TR needs recovery and crit stacks to do proper damage. Hence we cant just stack power and hope to gain anything out of it. If you would observe how dungeon runs go, a TR needs to do substantially more amount of things in a very short period in the right order with proper if not impeccable timing to be able to stay competitive with other dps classes. just because a handful of TRs in the server are able to manage to out dps the other classes does not make it enough reason to completely nerf the fundamental mechanics at this proportion. Even where TR stands right now, most TRs at the same Item Level are most likely to be out dpsed by a GWF at the same position when all other variables are kept constant simply because the mechanics of this class are more complicated and it took a certain number of people a lot of time and research to figure out how to optimise the damage output.
What i'd propose is making WoB power gain have depreciating results upto 5 targets. So first target gives full power as now, second one gives less and so on. Additionally, any power gained during the affected time will only be half as effective than what it is right now. That way it is still a solid nerf, without taking the class out of the dps scene.
Also, it has been pointed out many times, that smoke bomb interaction with AoC is what does the high damage. it is foolish to reduce the base damage of the power itself without fixing this interaction. You should fix this and increase the base damage of the power so it is still viable.
But what about the casual players? The players who are around the 12k IL Mark? The ones who invested so much time and likely money to get their toon to where it is?
Nerfing all these abilities will have a huge impact on us.
- wouldn't merely stopping certain powers stacking prevent the looping without the huge nerfs to the abilities which actually do damage?
There are many solo players and many players like myself who even though playing pretty much daily still are not at a level to run end game/ T3 dungeons as we just can't compete damage wise against others.. I have a hard enough time just running through chult at times... now I feel ill be pretty much just having to run away from all encounters (IF my stealth actually comes up with the longer wait time too
Please just remember there is a vast mix of level and ability players on this game... not everyone can get crazy dps as it is... and now you're nerfing pretty much everything I use in an attempt to actually do some damage
I mean if I'm missing something, I'd honestly love the devs to point me in the right direction.. but arnt TRs supposed to be a dps class??? We can't tank, heal/ or buff others... so what exactly do we have left as a dps class which can't do dps?
Please listen to your community of players.
There's a lot of posts from experts tr, asking for some changes (and accepting nerfs for some powers).
Take a look at them.
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That deep well of trust is now empty....
When the the Lostmouth set was nerfed, you provided a vendor for players to trade out their equipment to something else. That vendor is still there and operational.
This is far worse.
The fact that this is because a very few TR's who are highly geared, highly experienced, supported by an entire party buffing then can reach levels of damage output equal to an average GWF who in moderately equipped in the hands of an average gamer sounds too ridiculous to be believed but looks to be true. What then is the role of the TR if not "a force of sudden and most certain death." It certainly will not be "devastating" attacks... Traps were effectively thrown out a while back so there is NO reason for someone to take a TR into a party and that is how it is now unless you are in the upper 1% of TR's in the game. When the changes coming go into effect not even the 1% will be invited.
We know what is driving this and it is PVP. Most of us never play PVP. We do not care about PVP. Either eliminate PVP or PVE, separate them completely or eliminate the TR class and give us a method to transfer over to some class.
If this goes thru you must allow those with TR's to use that vendor or some other method for us to switch over or you will see all of us walk away from any of the games your company makes forever. Those that know TR's know just how damning these changes are going to be. We wonder how is it that others do not who are supposed to be the experts.
You are killing this class. Get it over with and give us a life boat like you did with the Lostmouth vendor.
This too reads at it is made for PvP.
And again.
These whole changes feels like penalization in PvE while they are made for regulating PvP. For sure it is easier to equalize things for both modes (i don't care for any PvP at all) but this doesn't mean i have to like it.