M15: Trickster Rogue Class Changes



  • slash#6527
    slash#6527 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Hey Trickster Rogues,

    Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for .... Mod. 15: TR - 50% dps = R.I.P
  • scottyfnc#2957
    scottyfnc#2957 Member Posts: 15 Arc User

    blur#5900 said:

    snip ...but I can't tell which people are complaining because they don't want to actually figure something out again (or wait for someone to tell them what to do in a guide) or if it really is dead... snap

    This is coming from a player who wrote the guide, TRs core mechanics were played with in this rework, probably with good intentions but it totally crippled the class because it broke the things which TR relies the most on - Daily abilities which increase Power.

    Using different feat tree or something instead ITC or Oppressive Darkness wont change anything since it isnt relevant to core mechanism of the class. Reading the guide might help you understand why these changes are so bad.
    I'll take you up on that. link me your guide. I get the jist though, no power gain on CB sucks, and the 40% damage is less than power from gobs of enemies on WoB. but how bad is that difference? drop in bleeds is concerning, but to do the other buffs make up for it? I guess i just always have a "can do" attitude.
    The difference amounts to a 50% drop or more in dps for end game TRs. It’s not that we are opposed to figuring new things out. Please understand that some of the TRs on here have been figuring things out on TRs for years and years. The changes we object to are changes that affect the endgame playability (dps) in all feat trees whether you play Sabo, Scoundrel, or Exe. It is fine if you don’t use the tools we have found that allow our damage to be competitive with other DPS classes, but if you do, this will be seriously detrimental to our damage, and therefore, our desirablity in endgame groups and dungeons.

    Here is a link to the guide. Read it, because there is a lot of information there that will help. https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Dwtx9Or-UOhrZOKwOWz8_O_Yzu_mX3Q5xE-QX6OkGA/edit?usp=sharing
    i have read plenty of guides for ideas, so i'd be lying to say i didn't pick up tips from peeps online, guildies, the general community and i thank you all for it. In fact im sure someone somewhere has my exact build somewhere and did it first and does it better. Just a simple message, to those who figured it out...keep on figuring it out. Keep on providing constructive criticism and saying stuff that cryptic can do and letting cryptic know what's up - that's cool. Just the people screaming i effing quit and crying...good lawd. Thanks for the link btw.

  • sc00by#2972
    sc00by#2972 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    I took my 14.5k TR onto the preview server. I wish I hadn't. I solo River district sHEs regularly on live, so as that was where I spawned I thought i'd have a go at one.
    It was like being a noobie again, nothing died except almost me, 3 times... I planned to go to Chult as I'd just been running round Chult on live this morning, but the River District experience rather upset me.
    I don't really care about being the most uberist ever, but please, not this... It was like trying to solo my CW only with 4k more item level that wasn't doing a whole lot for me.
  • sociald#9983
    sociald#9983 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Well, TRs are clearly going back to the "not wanted" in PvE. I do not see end-game groups wanting TRs as the primary DPS any more.

    If this was prompted by the "TRs are too strong in PvP", then why, why not just make a change to a few key powers, making their effects different depending on whether they were affecting other players (in PvP) or regular mobs (in PvE?

    This would have made PvP a bit more balanced, while still kept TRs as viable primary DPSers in PvE.

    Is someone getting paid to basically destroy the game to get everyone to move over to the new M:tG game?

    To me its more like TRs are going from not wanted very much to not wanted at all. I dont see big desire for TRs in PVE right now let alone with the preview changes I mean you dont see people asking for TRs for a group right now hardly ever. As far as pvp they could change the way abilities function in pvp whithout changing how they work in pvp if they wanted to. So this has to be either an intentional kill the rogues or otherwise incompetence.
  • ash234
    ash234 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Silence from the developer's end is almost deafening.
  • kiraskytower
    kiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    ash234 said:

    Silence from the developer's end is almost deafening.

    You do have to remember that they posted these changes for people to look at right before they left Friday afternoon. Then, like the rest of the world, they took the weekend off. So getting back today they have pages and pages of feedback across many topics to read, digest, discuss and figure out how to respond to ....

    Oh, and somewhere in there they actually have to spend some time working on the numerous known issues with mod 15 too. Give then a few days and see where this ends up.
    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • webrador#5350
    webrador#5350 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    @balanced#2849 I invite the developer persons to the subject.

    This is a very crazy nerf. We should discuss this issue together.

    You have to take into account the wishes of the players.

    Post edited by webrador#5350 on
  • finalfantasyac7
    finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    Well done Devs. You just destroyed the tr for low item level players both pve and pvp.
    Those changes will not hurt high item level pvp tr's tho.
    Thank god i only play neverwinter once a month or something lol.
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • jim#8036
    jim#8036 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    please don't do this to us... my DO is dead too, I've got nothing left in this game, No one will ask for a TR. I am shy of 18k, and even today do not feel adequate in dungeons.. we are DEAD
    Actually embarrassed to ask to join groups if this goes ahead, I guess I have fashion to look forward too, and mastering cloak tower... I’ll quit.
    Post edited by jim#8036 on
  • sabre10
    sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User

    ash234 said:

    Silence from the developer's end is almost deafening.

    You do have to remember that they posted these changes for people to look at right before they left Friday afternoon. Then, like the rest of the world, they took the weekend off. So getting back today they have pages and pages of feedback across many topics to read, digest, discuss and figure out how to respond to ....

    Oh, and somewhere in there they actually have to spend some time working on the numerous known issues with mod 15 too. Give then a few days and see where this ends up.
    Ordinarily I'd agree with you Winter, but they've been responding to other threads every day following the announcement.
    e.g. (from the DC thread)...

    I wanted to pop in to say that this is being read through, still working through the 250 responses so it may not be until tomorrow that there is an actual response but I did want to let everyone know the thread isn't being ignored.

    Acknowledgement of the TR community's concerns would go along way. @noworries#8859

    Civil Anarchy Officer
    Fabled Alliance
  • naruto#1755
    naruto#1755 Member Posts: 1 New User
    edited September 2018
    I agree with the thought of @skatopsixos7 in the next mod you devs are destroying a class. I started playing at Neverwinter last year. I've always been discarded in the queues, because everyone preferred other class same HR, GWF.

    Perhaps the TR is too strong now, But the Peanut community worked hard to help all trs. We do not deserve this treatment, ok nerf but this mod15 destroy the TR, think again about this nerf.

    Kind Regards,
    Kirito (PS4).
  • rattler72#5135
    rattler72#5135 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    I’ve played a Tr for a few years and getting into pug groups to run dungeons was painfull as a Tr while leveling up, and now it’s great, all classes are getting a run it’s 99% easier to get a run if you friends are not on if this goes ahead I’m not just changing classes I’m changing games I’ve got everything I need for my Tr love the play style of the class but if I’m going to be a support dps class I’m like the majority of the others and finished
  • miche80
    miche80 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    These changes are not a balancing of the class, but destroying it. Please avoid these errors. It is right to nerfy the class but so it is exaggerated is like having a new pg. From module 5/6 you did not see a strong TR in pve. We all waited a long time (years) and now in a few months destroyed...

    SoD (Xbox)
  • joanona
    joanona Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2 Arc User
    Since I can’t add much more regarding how punishing this nerf is, I just want to be sure you know that most TRs are not happy at all. So, I will leave here one more comment, from someone that spent both time and money in this game.

    I have played TR since early 2014, I had a break once because I couldn’t find anything to do in the game and I am now a proud 17.8k pve TR. Like anyone who wants to play end-game content, I am exe.
    Now, what I have learnt this last mod, is that not that much is dependent on me. Even with all my rotations in the right place, I had TONG runs from 13min to 1h13min (I must add that I rarely do power loop since it does not seem fluid enough to my game style). I have one phased bosses, and failed the same bosses just the next run with a different group (I do use a lot the random system). I say this because it seems that you are basing these changes on videos of TRs doing lots of damage. These videos are made with highly optimized parties of knowledgeable support players (and OP dependent). Furthermore, similar videos are available for any dps class (+ GF).

    Yeah, TRs do lots of damage, they could even use a nerf, but not like this. You don’t seem to be able to make your mind about things, and that is very telling about the way you work… I mean, how many times have you revamped SOD? You added a DOT portion to it, I thought, because now every single boss you add to the game, suddenly stops receiving damage many times during a fight, leading to SOD being wasted (since it is a 6 sec delayed source of damage). And now, you take that. Why? Really, why? Why did you add it then? What changed?

    Also, why take every viable way of a TR to buff their own power? Couldn’t you come up with any other way to avoid the power loop? If that was the case you have decent suggestions in this thread, please acknowledge them.

    Finally, I really don’t mind changing paragon path as I have played sabo in the past. However, please make it competitive to other DPS classes (there is a reason why players that can go past Chult are executioners). It seems that these changes were made by an antisocial and introvert dev that wants nothing to do with running dungeons.

    And yes, I might also pause the game if you murder my TR, since my plan B was a DC DO (that I created during the “sry, no TR” times).
  • promytheas
    promytheas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    If you gave every TR the option to convert his/her character to another class, how many end game PVE TRs do you think would be left in the game? I am talking about a complete conversion (campaign progression, equivalent gear etc). Just something to think about ...
    Post edited by promytheas on
  • kalimoucho44
    kalimoucho44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    Most Tr don't want ALL this changes.

    Please listen to your community of players.

    There's a lot of posts from experts tr, asking for some changes (and accepting nerfs for some powers).

    Take a look at them.
    Tr BlackbombA
    French guild : L'Ordre Du Dragon Noir
  • crow#2304
    crow#2304 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    TR is far from overpowered like some want to believe, it needs a whole lot of time and currency to develop into a competing dps, and learning the pinnacle of tweaks for that real high damage output people see and talk about is only reached by very view. This is not balancing, this is bowing to those who never learn but just complain, and showing those with dedication nothing but the finger.
    Crow @ xxxWANTEDxxx
  • morgulknife
    morgulknife Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    You are destroying TR's. This has been a long process going back several years and we have stuck with you because you kept promising you would fix it. You did a slight fix last mod. Not a rework like all other classes have had and now this.

    That deep well of trust is now empty....

    When the the Lostmouth set was nerfed, you provided a vendor for players to trade out their equipment to something else. That vendor is still there and operational.

    This is far worse.

    The fact that this is because a very few TR's who are highly geared, highly experienced, supported by an entire party buffing then can reach levels of damage output equal to an average GWF who in moderately equipped in the hands of an average gamer sounds too ridiculous to be believed but looks to be true. What then is the role of the TR if not "a force of sudden and most certain death." It certainly will not be "devastating" attacks... Traps were effectively thrown out a while back so there is NO reason for someone to take a TR into a party and that is how it is now unless you are in the upper 1% of TR's in the game. When the changes coming go into effect not even the 1% will be invited.

    We know what is driving this and it is PVP. Most of us never play PVP. We do not care about PVP. Either eliminate PVP or PVE, separate them completely or eliminate the TR class and give us a method to transfer over to some class.

    If this goes thru you must allow those with TR's to use that vendor or some other method for us to switch over or you will see all of us walk away from any of the games your company makes forever. Those that know TR's know just how damning these changes are going to be. We wonder how is it that others do not who are supposed to be the experts.

    You are killing this class. Get it over with and give us a life boat like you did with the Lostmouth vendor.