[...] Long ago, and mostly not end-game TRs today, use Duelist Flurry to stack bleed. [...] Also There is no practical reason for the 40% bleed nerf as is. DF is not used in end-game parties, Sly is used instead, so nerfing it makes it even less viable. [...]
[...] Duelists flurry, interesting change but wont be used. [...]
I just want to add that you have a point by saying Duelist's Flurry isn't used by end-game parties. One reason for that are really short boss fights (because of all the buffs and power). In longer encounters with non burning mobs the bleeding damage is essential for your overall damage. So the reduction of bleeding damage has a massive impact.
I have two TRs on my account, Silvane Stardust and Goro Thay. I never pay much attention to these posts of players shouting "You are nerfing it!" or "You are making it OP!" However, Mr. @balanced#2849 should I get in Barovia on November 6th and get my butt handed to me on a silver platter... I will know who is to blame.
Meanwhile... I think it is already horrible what Cryptic did to our TRs back when they stopped traps from doing their jobs. Yes, I am talking about VIP cheats and how players just walk across the traps. You took away the one thing special about the class and tossed it in the garbage. If this behavior continues both Goro Thay and Stardust and some other TRs will form a labor union and have a legal grievance filed against you.
> @skatopsixos7 said: > You guys kidding me right now?
guys I have TR if they do it i am leaving game my friends do same so they will lose 25 players . I hope they wont do it because it will be the end of class and i am not waisting my time making new from 0 . no way its not worth it . no one would play tr not even want to take to party . we are screwed if they do this . my guild was thinking about oficial complain . ifthey do this most of us leaving or just droping tr and hoping they put it back . I spend alot money onit . cryptic jus wants to torture us . I am starting to give up on game . RIP TR
Why?? I have one character. A TR. I found this character wise the one that appeals to me the most. I play every.single.day. Now I'm not end game but finally getting to a point where I can compete. I don't powerloop but can manage reasonable dps to be part of a team... however these changes will cripple that.
I've also spent a lot on this game.. far more than buying a new console game and even DLC...
What's the point of continuing with it with these changes? Even if I make a new character I can't transfer all the campaign work I've put in, the companions, mounts or gear I've grind so hard for.
Where's the enjoyment in playing a game people don't want to play with you anymore?
Great job and thanks ... guess that's me finding something new to do then. Pretty gutted.
I think a class retrain token as many have mentioned would be the only saving grace now- at least could keep most of our stuff.. bar a few bits of tr gear (weapons and possibly some armour)...
I think a class retrain token as many have mentioned would be the only saving grace now- at least could keep most of our stuff.. bar a few bits of tr gear (weapons and possibly some armour)...
I don't even play a TR, but this NERF seems pretty savage. From what I can see, TR was pretty sad, then you buffed it so it was actually a really good dps, maybe a little overpowered, but in your efforts to "balance" you have completely wrecked the TR. it's a damage class, they can't heal other classes, they can't tank, they are there to help in pve by doing hella damage. Instead of taking them from a 3/10 rating to a 9/10 then slashing them back to a 1/10, why didn't you take them down to a 7/10? That's what I'd class as balancing. I don't think you have balanced the classes at all
Several high geared TRs have tried to point out how bad this change will be. And how endgame TRs will be no more. And they have tried to come up with other solutions to make it viable but still accepting nerfs. Are u devs even aware that the only thing thats really to strong on the TR right now is the power looping? Right now i can still be competitive on endgame content, i can still enjoy it, and i can still have fun, do the needed dmg. And thats without using ITC, or combo whirlwind + CB to get the insane high power. I still have high AP gain, good rec so i can proc a SoD every 8-10 sec. But im using more at wills that the supposed meta TR, i use the bleed to give me the edge on longer fights.
But that also means i will never be doing speed runs, i will never have the fastest clear times. But i never had anyone complain about my DPS either. Do i think i should be doing more than a GWF with this playstyle. Ofc i do, im a boss killer. But im still able to be competitive and do the job.
With the changes u wanna make, and i assume many of them is to remove the power looping, u not just hitting the power loopers. Ur hitting everyone. My DMG as a none power looping player will be lowered by 50%+. So if u wanna get rid of power looping do that. Give all power increasing powers the same buff or something. So if u use power gaining ability number 2, instead of adding, u override what powerlooping ability number 1 gave u. That way u can either get some power from ITC, CB or WWoB, but not all of them. U changed it on WWoB long ago to work that way. Why not do add the others into the mix? It removes the powerlooping, but still lets us be relevant.
I would hope u guys read all these posts, and change course before mod 15 hits. Not in mod 16 or mod 17 like u normally do with things u change for the worse. Do u still remember how u "worked" on the SW? Remove most of the critting from powers, give them some buffing capabilities in a mod. Then u realize what u did made them obsolete, they couldnt DPS, they didnt really buff enough to give them a slot on a group. A few mods later u give them critting on powers back, buff their dps, and rework alot to make them better buffers. Can u please listen to player feedback instead of keep doing this "lets ruin a class for a few mods".
Several high geared TRs have tried to point out how bad this change will be. And how endgame TRs will be no more. And they have tried to come up with other solutions to make it viable but still accepting nerfs. Are u devs even aware that the only thing thats really to strong on the TR right now is the power looping? Right now i can still be competitive on endgame content, i can still enjoy it, and i can still have fun, do the needed dmg. And thats without using ITC, or combo whirlwind + CB to get the insane high power. I still have high AP gain, good rec so i can proc a SoD every 8-10 sec. But im using more at wills that the supposed meta TR, i use the bleed to give me the edge on longer fights.
But that also means i will never be doing speed runs, i will never have the fastest clear times. But i never had anyone complain about my DPS either. Do i think i should be doing more than a GWF with this playstyle. Ofc i do, im a boss killer. But im still able to be competitive and do the job.
With the changes u wanna make, and i assume many of them is to remove the power looping, u not just hitting the power loopers. Ur hitting everyone. My DMG as a none power looping player will be lowered by 50%+. So if u wanna get rid of power looping do that. Give all power increasing powers the same buff or something. So if u use power gaining ability number 2, instead of adding, u override what powerlooping ability number 1 gave u. That way u can either get some power from ITC, CB or WWoB, but not all of them. U changed it on WWoB long ago to work that way. Why not do add the others into the mix? It removes the powerlooping, but still lets us be relevant.
I would hope u guys read all these posts, and change course before mod 15 hits. Not in mod 16 or mod 17 like u normally do with things u change for the worse. Do u still remember how u "worked" on the SW? Remove most of the critting from powers, give them some buffing capabilities in a mod. Then u realize what u did made them obsolete, they couldnt DPS, they didnt really buff enough to give them a slot on a group. A few mods later u give them critting on powers back, buff their dps, and rework alot to make them better buffers. Can u please listen to player feedback instead of keep doing this "lets ruin a class for a few mods".
I think it's the inability to comprehend the scale of the nerf that's not allowing people to realize why this is a terrible HAMSTER' idea. I stopped playin' TR a while ago since it's just not my piece of cake, but the changes here are beyond nasty.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Trickster Artifact offhand weapon class feature power(tenacious concealment) needs to be changed before this mod goes live. As it stands.. this offhand power is out of sync with the idea of mod 15 because it says (reduces stealth loss 20%)
please modify it to increase stealth recharge or negate slow stealth recharge when attacked. I would personally love to see it say... "allows stealth recharge while in stealth"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Great, I started week ago and my main is TR so i will loose nothing except 100-200 euro I invested to gear up to 11k. But today after this news almost all ppl from my guild just quit game and moved to another. So this mean TR is just a trash now in PvE? Should i reroll? I wanna play with daggers it was so fun!
A glaring example of the disconnect between players and developers was made clear to me today. I main a 17.8k tr near bis missing only a couple of plus 5 rings. I run a 14.8k gwf alt. This morning running weeklies on both I fought batari rare mobs. My tr was a constant scrabble of linking together daily powers, stealth use at wills encounters along with artifact and mount power use .
My gwf was plant my feet hold down weapon master strike pop determination causally pick up loot.
Looking at preview notes my gwf is getting several buffs and that's about it.
My tr every single power I used to defeat that mob is getting nerfed!
I honestly hope that the changes are not as bad as they seemed to be right now. For 2 and 1/2 years i've poured thousands of hours play time and enough cash to fund a very nice tropical vacation into building a character that has finally became a desirable addition to a party. With one patch note you have made all of that effort and investment feel wasted. Why try hard on a sub par toon when I can just stand still and hold the trigger down and get better results. Sincerely Jahfar Revlis The deflated tr
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
A glaring example of the disconnect between players and developers was made clear to me today. I main a 17.8k tr near bis missing only a couple of plus 5 rings. I run a 14.8k gwf alt.
This morning running weeklies on both I fought batari rare mobs.
My tr was a constant scrabble of linking together daily powers, stealth use at wills encounters along with artifact and mount power use .
My gwf was plant my feet hold down weapon master strike pop determination causally pick up loot.
Looking at preview notes my gwf is getting several buffs and that's about it.
My tr every single power I used to defeat that mob is getting nerfed!
I honestly hope that the changes are not as bad as they seemed to be right now. For 2 and 1/2 years i've poured thousands of hours play time and enough cash to fund a very nice tropical vacation into building a character that has finally became a desirable addition to a party. With one patch note you have made all of that effort and investment feel wasted. Why try hard on a sub par toon when I can just stand still and hold the trigger down and get better results.
Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
Stealth: Duration increased to 6 seconds (up from 5 seconds)
Stealth: Taking damage no longer interrupts Stealth Regeneration
Stealth: Taking damage now halves Stealth Regeneration for 2 seconds (instead of stopping it for 3 seconds)
Stealth (PvP): Trickster Rogues will now be visible to opponents when they deal damage from stealth. Powers that do not remove stealth will not reveal the rogue and damage over time effects, such as smoke bomb and path of the blade, will not remove stealth. This only occurs while in a PvP mode.
I'm ok with that,
But you have to rework the feat "Tenacious Concealment" and the dedicated Artifact off-hand power if your goal is
Smoke Bomb (Revamped): Damage reduced by 30% Smoke Bomb: Fixed an issue where Smoke Bomb wasn't correctly reading in a damage table (damage increased by ~8%) Smoke Bomb: Duration is now 5 seconds at all ranks (instead of 2-5 based on rank) Smoke Bomb: Stealth: No longer slows enemies Smoke Bomb: Base cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 18 seconds) Smoke Bomb: Stealth: Now grants Combat Advantage against all enemies in Smoke Bomb Smoke Bomb: Now reduces the cooldown by 2s per rank-up Smoke Bomb: Now triggers at the user's feet instead of being 5' in front of them
Since you nerf Courage Breaker, Power Looping, the Press the Advantage feat AND the damages of Smoke Bomb, i'm still ok with that,
As long as you allow us to benefit from the Combatant Manoeuver insigna bonus when using Smoke Bomb, Dazing Strike, and Scoundrel daze feats
Courage Breaker: Now slows the target by 70% (down from 90%) Courage Breaker: Now places a 25% Damage Reduction Debuff on the target, +5% per rank Courage Breaker: Now places a 12.5% Damage Resistance Reduction Debuff on the target, +2.5% per rank Courage Breaker: No longer increases player power by 25% Courage Breaker: Duration is now 8 seconds (down from 10 for PvE, up from 5 for PvP) Whirlwind of Blades: Now grants +8% outgoing damage for each target hit (up to 5) Whirlwind of Blades: Buff duration reduced to 10 seconds (from 12 seconds)
You want to nerf powerloop. I understand that. And for a TR playing Solo, thoses changes will not be a hard nerf.
BUT. For team synergy, it's really bad.
Sure, the 3 TR feats trees will be viable for midgame solo content. But for Group Content and Endgame content, thoses changes make literally any of the 3 feets competitives with other DPS Classes.
In Endgame content with current and next-mod meta, where everyone have 100% Resistance ignored, and 3 or 4 support class heavily debuff the targets,
Damage Resistance Reduction debuff can be useless in Endgame group content. We have a lot of debuffs from support classes, and for the same reasons TRs don't use Wicked Reminder in Endgame Group Content, Courage Breaker will not be used if you change it like that. I suggest you to consider the possibility of changing that for a 4/6/8/10% direct Damage Bonus for the TR, AND a 10% Damage Resistance Reduction debuff for the Party, as you seems to consider this daily as a Support Daily.
And concerning Whirlwind of Blades
A +40% max outgoing damage bonus is not bad for Solo content. In this context, it's not a big big nerf for 50K+ Power players (again, when soloing content), at least, not a hard nerf if taken individually.
BUT. With Courage Breaker nerfed (and even with the change i propose for it), Press the Advantage nerfed (even with the changes i will propose for it), Smoke Bomb damage nerfed, and DF Bleed damages nerfed,
it's a total BIG Nerf when we talk about a TR as main or secondary DPS against Bosses or Big Mobs or even groups of mobs, in group endgame content. Again, i suggest you to consider the possibility of changing that for a +10% (instead of 8) outgoing damage for each target hit (up to 8 (instead of 5)) AND a 10% DR debuff for the party.
Before submiting some very small changes ideas, i want to say that what your want to do, is good. Balancing Feat Trees will allow us to play another build than the overplayed Peanut Stabber EXE build (and i'm pretty sure your already read the guide of James weeks ago).
And, after few hours of tests on preview, it can works.
Sabo, Scound, and EXE can all be viables.
But only for low/mid-game.
Concerning Endgame content (for 12K-18K meta team players in my point of view)
Sabo was already good for mobs but less efficient than exe concerning Boss fights. But that was with Power Looping active.
Scondrel was good too for mobs, while less than sabos and exes, again, with power looping, thanks to the meta.
As James said it in its guide :
Personally, I like to run a Saboteur build against mobs and swap back to this build against bosses. Others prefer to run executioner against mobs and bosses, and that is just as effective if played correctly, and that is where our focus is with this guide. Note: Scoundrel is also effective against mobs. Whisperknives, too, probably. Okay, mobs die really fast. It’s not hard to kill mobs. Everyone can kill mobs. Even that one guy in your guild who is awful kills mobs. It’s the bosses that set the true stabbers above the treecutters.
Now, without the Power Loop, not only the three trees are less effective for endgame team synergies, but you nerf SoD, and the DF bleed, decreasing dramatically the effectiveness of TR against Bosses. The Best Tree is nerfed, and, in the same time ALL viables builds are nerfed, even thoses using others trees. I play my TR since few years now, and I remember distinctly the modules where TR were left aside cause of their lack of overall DPS in PVE, and there was more of thoses modules than modules where TR were as viable as others top DPS classes.
Exposed Weakness (New): Moved from the Executioner tree to this tree Gutterborn's Touch (Reworked): Dealing combat advantage damage to an enemy increases your Armor Penetration and Damage Dealt by 2/4/6/8/10%
While moving this to Sabo Tree seems a good idea, this feat need a rework, at least for PVE, since even Sabo will not be permanently stealthed, they will still building their Arpen to reach 100% RI, so, they will not use this feat. Please consider the possibility to allow us to ignore an additional 5/10/15/20/25% of our target's armor when we have Combat Advantage. Since we are more often in situation of Combat Advantage than stealthed, this will allow us to less focus on Arpen. In compensation, I suggest to remove the Arpen buff from Gutterborn's Touch and lowering a little the Damage Dealt buff.
Shadowy Opportunity (Reworked): Now causes you to gain Shadowy Opportunity for 5 seconds after leaving stealth. While active, your attacks deal an additional 10/20/30/40/50% weapon damage as piercing damage. Shadowy Opportunity: No longer procs on every hit of Duelist's Flurry, now only procs on the first and last hits.
This feel like a Buff. Thanks. But 50% of unbuffable Weapons Damages ? I’m pretty sure you know what TRs thinks about their Weapons Damages and how low Shadow Opportunity damages ticks are until now, please, take this in consideration.
Press the Advantage (Reworked): Now causes Impossible to Catch to increase your Combat Advantage damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for its duration.
Please, consider the possibility to change this for something like the Reworked Gutterborn's Touch, maybe something like : “Using Impossible to Catch when you have Combat Advantage grant you a +5% Damage Dealt buff for its duration.” ?
Master Infighter (Reworked): Deflecting an attack grants you the "Reversal" buff for 6 seconds. "Reversal" - Causes you to deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage and take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from the target whose attack you deflected Mocking Gesture (Reworked): Every second your Deflection Chance increases by 1/2/3/4/5%, stacking up to 20 times. Deflecting an attack resets this bonus and causes you to riposte the attacker, dealing 40/80/120/160/200% of your weapon damage as physical damage.
I like it. Really, I like the idea of deflect as a weapon, good for a concept of a Combat TR, like in the old time when I tried the reflect build of Rustlord. The only “meh” thing is the weapon damages, too insignificant in PVE.
The rest of the scoundrel Tree is pretty good, out of Concussive Strikes duration (but I understand why) and the combo of useless feats Bloody Brawler/Roll with the punches wich take us 5 points for almost nothing efficient. The order of the feats in the tree still let it behind Sabo and Exe in overall damages, because we can mix Sabo/Scound, Exe/Scound (hello Back Allay) or even Sabo/Exe in a more efficient way than we can mix Scound/Sabo or Scound/Exe.
Executioner
On paper, if we take each feats individually, out of SoD and the weapon damages of BSB, it seems good. But in a context of nerfed dailies, encouters, and no power loop, it’s not enough for pretenting being a better or on par main or secondary DPS in endgame content. But it’s not irremediable, it’s a good tree. We just need a small buff of our synergies (Dailies) and SoD to be competitive. That’s all. The Goal is not to be the better DPS, the Goal is only to be viable as a DPS. Support Teams deserve the right to have the choice between DPS classes, and shouldn’t be forced to be leaded by Kryptonians with giant toothpicks.
I've played 5 classes so far and I enjoy TR playstyle the most, so that's the class I've put all my post-level-70 effort into.
I'm not an elite player by any means, but I follow the Peanut Stabber guide and think I have a pretty good handle on how to play my character. The one notable thing I don't do is power looping, but I've got all my boons, maxed ArPen, 4/5 best-in-slot companions, all the right insignia bonuses, etc.
Still, I'm reminded with nearly every dungeon and skirmish I run that I NEVER out-damage an equivalently equipped GWF. Now, since M14 I don't embarrass myself as long I get my rotations timed almost perfectly, but of course I depend on Courage Breaker, Whirlwind of Blades, Smoke Bomb, and Shadow of Demise to make that possible!
As far as I can see, my total damage output will drop 30-50% with the proposed changes, and I'm not seeing that I can make up the difference with different powers. And I honestly don't know how I'll manage solo PvE in Barovia or Omu with the massive nerfs to Smoke Bomb, and to a lesser degree Whirlwind. We have so few options when tackling groups...
As others have said, I approve of the intent to make other powers and feats more competitive with the current meta, but with the possible exception of power looping the meta wasn't over-powered, so nerfing the things we all currently depend on to bring them down to the level of the other options seems like the wrong approach.
PLEASE consider the suggestions that others have made with respect to solving the power looping and PvP issues more directly rather devastating the class for everyone.
I'm really not looking forward to seeing "sry no TR" in lfg all the time. I don't know that it would make me quit the game forever - I think people who say that are being ridiculous. But I'd certainly be putting it down in favor of Fallout 76, and maybe check back next year some time to see if anything improved.
So after the mods of endless nerfs and M14 that actualy allowed TRs to be able to play more than FBI and rare tongs you are going to drasticaly nerf our main powers in exchange to buff entirely useless powers that are entirely useless even after buff. I really hoped for TR rework to be less depending on one tree and whisperknife being viable but it seems you got it like we want our ONLY powers left that are actualy doing any dps see downgraded to whisperknife. Congratulations DEVS you finaly did it, this is going to kill entire class that seem to be really hated by you. Why I say it? Because last mod gave us hope. Now this hope is more than ruined, the last things we have are going to be nerfed. Please, STOP TORTURING TRS, IF YOU WANT TO REMOVE CLASS FROM THE GAME JUST DO IT and compensate us, TRs, I want to remember my main TR as actual dps class, not as the broken... something without any chance to play outside of solo content. This community have tons of experienced TRs willing to help you find a way to balance things, please dont kill our class while lying us in the first sentence with cheerful announcement we are getting what we always wanted.
I wonder, how is it possible that module 14 we have improved SOD to make us more competitive, and module 15 as well as putting back SOD as it was module 13, and there nerf everything else?
Well, I wonder who is in charge of class balancing in your company, if it is really competent, and how did its calculations with the class Tr? I would like to understand his thought, as he did to reach this conclusion to say the least catastrophic.( probably you did not play enough to understand the TR class)
Many speak of a reroll token to make another character, NO I do not want any token, I love my class and I do not want to use any more.
Here it is understood that the company is not serious, and not worth my time and my money.
I'm not here to cry, much less to pray not to make the changes you have announced, do as you wish, I have willingly played the last 5 years, even if only in recent months I really enjoyed it.
on November 6th we will see what happens, cause and unforeseeable effect.
So in testing a few abilities a little bit preview vs live - Lashing Blade 23.5% damage decrease Dazing Strike 75.5% damage increase Duelists Flurry 31.5% damage decrease on first and second hits and a 40.5% damage decrease on the follow up hits. Bleed proc 40.5% damage decrease Shadow of Demise 72.9% damage decrease
Weapon enchant procs doing doing alot less also but someone told me they arent working properly so i dont know about those Although I tested my CW and his weapon procs are doing more damage .. along with his abilities. so i dunno. Havent tested anything else yet but its not promising.
I completely built my tr mod 13 after reading your changes to make tr viable for mod 14 with the buffs you implemented. I spent alot of money and resources to do this as to being a viable dps in pve. Now with this your burying the tr!!!!. I want my money from the legendary comp and 4 other comps. I want my rp and my 8mill swarm mount back and you can delete my Tr.
"Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for because this is the major re-balancing of the Trickster Rogue class! " Well, that's NOT me, as you are killing the TR now. It was already a pain to find a group wanting a TR for run a DG.... now will be totally impossible!! And TR will be DEAD at PVE.... Thanx again for you doing the wrong thing one more time. Hope you (Cryptic) gets these feedback from this post and really think about what your doing.
Comments
(Because you guys like guides let me quote the "Peanut Stabber Guide" (https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Dwtx9Or-UOhrZOKwOWz8_O_Yzu_mX3Q5xE-QX6OkGA/edit?usp=sharing): “However, unless your party is melting the boss in less than 20-30 seconds (in that case, use sly flourish), I’d use this against bosses. ” (p. 94) and Micky's ”Trickster Rogue Guide” (https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTPwgW3YB-JQaQb8VU7aoSy3TlWVAHu9sdXUC1fFSjmFEeioeqSErekITGB509P9HqTNIlomE_sTa6m/pub) “Duelist’s Flurry - The go to for bosses, or any case when things die slow (for example low buff group).”.)
This nerfed the TR in PvE (sorry yall), and seriously buffed the TR for PvP.
I can't wait to see the PvP forum posts
Hilarious.
Again, sorry "PvEers"
Meanwhile... I think it is already horrible what Cryptic did to our TRs back when they stopped traps from doing their jobs. Yes, I am talking about VIP cheats and how players just walk across the traps. You took away the one thing special about the class and tossed it in the garbage. If this behavior continues both Goro Thay and Stardust and some other TRs will form a labor union and have a legal grievance filed against you.
Good Day Sir!
F
> You guys kidding me right now?
guys I have TR if they do it i am leaving game my friends do same so they will lose 25 players . I hope they wont do it because it will be the end of class and i am not waisting my time making new from 0 . no way its not worth it . no one would play tr not even want to take to party . we are screwed if they do this . my guild was thinking about oficial complain . ifthey do this most of us leaving or just droping tr and hoping they put it back . I spend alot money onit . cryptic jus wants to torture us . I am starting to give up on game . RIP TR
I have one character. A TR. I found this character wise the one that appeals to me the most.
I play every.single.day.
Now I'm not end game but finally getting to a point where I can compete.
I don't powerloop but can manage reasonable dps to be part of a team... however these changes will cripple that.
I've also spent a lot on this game.. far more than buying a new console game and even DLC...
What's the point of continuing with it with these changes? Even if I make a new character I can't transfer all the campaign work I've put in, the companions, mounts or gear I've grind so hard for.
Where's the enjoyment in playing a game people don't want to play with you anymore?
Great job and thanks
But that also means i will never be doing speed runs, i will never have the fastest clear times. But i never had anyone complain about my DPS either. Do i think i should be doing more than a GWF with this playstyle. Ofc i do, im a boss killer. But im still able to be competitive and do the job.
With the changes u wanna make, and i assume many of them is to remove the power looping, u not just hitting the power loopers. Ur hitting everyone. My DMG as a none power looping player will be lowered by 50%+. So if u wanna get rid of power looping do that. Give all power increasing powers the same buff or something. So if u use power gaining ability number 2, instead of adding, u override what powerlooping ability number 1 gave u. That way u can either get some power from ITC, CB or WWoB, but not all of them. U changed it on WWoB long ago to work that way. Why not do add the others into the mix? It removes the powerlooping, but still lets us be relevant.
I would hope u guys read all these posts, and change course before mod 15 hits. Not in mod 16 or mod 17 like u normally do with things u change for the worse. Do u still remember how u "worked" on the SW? Remove most of the critting from powers, give them some buffing capabilities in a mod. Then u realize what u did made them obsolete, they couldnt DPS, they didnt really buff enough to give them a slot on a group. A few mods later u give them critting on powers back, buff their dps, and rework alot to make them better buffers. Can u please listen to player feedback instead of keep doing this "lets ruin a class for a few mods".
As it stands.. this offhand power is out of sync with the idea of mod 15 because it says (reduces stealth loss 20%)
please modify it to increase stealth recharge or negate slow stealth recharge when attacked.
I would personally love to see it say... "allows stealth recharge while in stealth"
This morning running weeklies on both I fought batari rare mobs.
My tr was a constant scrabble of linking together daily powers, stealth use at wills encounters along with artifact and mount power use .
My gwf was plant my feet hold down weapon master strike pop determination causally pick up loot.
Looking at preview notes my gwf is getting several buffs and that's about it.
My tr every single power I used to defeat that mob is getting nerfed!
I honestly hope that the changes are not as bad as they seemed to be right now. For 2 and 1/2 years i've poured thousands of hours play time and enough cash to fund a very nice tropical vacation into building a character that has finally became a desirable addition to a party. With one patch note you have made all of that effort and investment feel wasted. Why try hard on a sub par toon when I can just stand still and hold the trigger down and get better results.
Sincerely
Jahfar Revlis
The deflated tr
1) I'm ok with that,
But you have to rework the feat "Tenacious Concealment" and the dedicated Artifact off-hand power if your goal is 2) Since you nerf Courage Breaker, Power Looping, the Press the Advantage feat AND the damages of Smoke Bomb, i'm still ok with that,
As long as you allow us to benefit from the Combatant Manoeuver insigna bonus when using Smoke Bomb, Dazing Strike, and Scoundrel daze feats
3) You want to nerf powerloop. I understand that. And for a TR playing Solo, thoses changes will not be a hard nerf.
BUT. For team synergy, it's really bad.
Sure, the 3 TR feats trees will be viable for midgame solo content. But for Group Content and Endgame content, thoses changes make literally any of the 3 feets competitives with other DPS Classes.
In Endgame content with current and next-mod meta, where everyone have 100% Resistance ignored, and 3 or 4 support class heavily debuff the targets,
Damage Resistance Reduction debuff can be useless in Endgame group content. We have a lot of debuffs from support classes, and for the same reasons TRs don't use Wicked Reminder in Endgame Group Content, Courage Breaker will not be used if you change it like that.
I suggest you to consider the possibility of changing that for a 4/6/8/10% direct Damage Bonus for the TR, AND a 10% Damage Resistance Reduction debuff for the Party, as you seems to consider this daily as a Support Daily.
And concerning Whirlwind of Blades
A +40% max outgoing damage bonus is not bad for Solo content. In this context, it's not a big big nerf for 50K+ Power players (again, when soloing content), at least, not a hard nerf if taken individually.
BUT. With Courage Breaker nerfed (and even with the change i propose for it), Press the Advantage nerfed (even with the changes i will propose for it), Smoke Bomb damage nerfed, and DF Bleed damages nerfed,
it's a total BIG Nerf when we talk about a TR as main or secondary DPS against Bosses or Big Mobs or even groups of mobs, in group endgame content.
Again, i suggest you to consider the possibility of changing that for a +10% (instead of 8) outgoing damage for each target hit (up to 8 (instead of 5)) AND a 10% DR debuff for the party.
Before submiting some very small changes ideas, i want to say that what your want to do, is good.
Balancing Feat Trees will allow us to play another build than the overplayed Peanut Stabber EXE build (and i'm pretty sure your already read the guide of James weeks ago).
And, after few hours of tests on preview, it can works.
Sabo, Scound, and EXE can all be viables.
But only for low/mid-game.
Concerning Endgame content (for 12K-18K meta team players in my point of view)
Sabo was already good for mobs but less efficient than exe concerning Boss fights.
But that was with Power Looping active.
Scondrel was good too for mobs, while less than sabos and exes, again, with power looping, thanks to the meta.
As James said it in its guide : Now, without the Power Loop, not only the three trees are less effective for endgame team synergies, but you nerf SoD, and the DF bleed, decreasing dramatically the effectiveness of TR against Bosses.
The Best Tree is nerfed, and, in the same time ALL viables builds are nerfed, even thoses using others trees.
I play my TR since few years now, and I remember distinctly the modules where TR were left aside cause of their lack of overall DPS in PVE, and there was more of thoses modules than modules where TR were as viable as others top DPS classes.
Scoundrel Please, consider the possibility to change this for something like the Reworked Gutterborn's Touch, maybe something like : “Using Impossible to Catch when you have Combat Advantage grant you a +5% Damage Dealt buff for its duration.” ? I like it. Really, I like the idea of deflect as a weapon, good for a concept of a Combat TR, like in the old time when I tried the reflect build of Rustlord. The only “meh” thing is the weapon damages, too insignificant in PVE.
The rest of the scoundrel Tree is pretty good, out of Concussive Strikes duration (but I understand why) and the combo of useless feats Bloody Brawler/Roll with the punches wich take us 5 points for almost nothing efficient. The order of the feats in the tree still let it behind Sabo and Exe in overall damages, because we can mix Sabo/Scound, Exe/Scound (hello Back Allay) or even Sabo/Exe in a more efficient way than we can mix Scound/Sabo or Scound/Exe.
Executioner
On paper, if we take each feats individually, out of SoD and the weapon damages of BSB, it seems good.
But in a context of nerfed dailies, encouters, and no power loop, it’s not enough for pretenting being a better or on par main or secondary DPS in endgame content.
But it’s not irremediable, it’s a good tree. We just need a small buff of our synergies (Dailies) and SoD to be competitive. That’s all. The Goal is not to be the better DPS, the Goal is only to be viable as a DPS. Support Teams deserve the right to have the choice between DPS classes, and shouldn’t be forced to be leaded by Kryptonians with giant toothpicks.
I'm not an elite player by any means, but I follow the Peanut Stabber guide and think I have a pretty good handle on how to play my character. The one notable thing I don't do is power looping, but I've got all my boons, maxed ArPen, 4/5 best-in-slot companions, all the right insignia bonuses, etc.
Still, I'm reminded with nearly every dungeon and skirmish I run that I NEVER out-damage an equivalently equipped GWF. Now, since M14 I don't embarrass myself as long I get my rotations timed almost perfectly, but of course I depend on Courage Breaker, Whirlwind of Blades, Smoke Bomb, and Shadow of Demise to make that possible!
As far as I can see, my total damage output will drop 30-50% with the proposed changes, and I'm not seeing that I can make up the difference with different powers. And I honestly don't know how I'll manage solo PvE in Barovia or Omu with the massive nerfs to Smoke Bomb, and to a lesser degree Whirlwind. We have so few options when tackling groups...
As others have said, I approve of the intent to make other powers and feats more competitive with the current meta, but with the possible exception of power looping the meta wasn't over-powered, so nerfing the things we all currently depend on to bring them down to the level of the other options seems like the wrong approach.
PLEASE consider the suggestions that others have made with respect to solving the power looping and PvP issues more directly rather devastating the class for everyone.
I'm really not looking forward to seeing "sry no TR" in lfg all the time. I don't know that it would make me quit the game forever - I think people who say that are being ridiculous. But I'd certainly be putting it down in favor of Fallout 76, and maybe check back next year some time to see if anything improved.
Please, STOP TORTURING TRS, IF YOU WANT TO REMOVE CLASS FROM THE GAME JUST DO IT and compensate us, TRs, I want to remember my main TR as actual dps class, not as the broken... something without any chance to play outside of solo content.
This community have tons of experienced TRs willing to help you find a way to balance things, please dont kill our class while lying us in the first sentence with cheerful announcement we are getting what we always wanted.
Well, I wonder who is in charge of class balancing in your company, if it is really competent, and how did its calculations with the class Tr? I would like to understand his thought, as he did to reach this conclusion to say the least catastrophic.( probably you did not play enough to understand the TR class)
Many speak of a reroll token to make another character, NO I do not want any token, I love my class and I do not want to use any more.
Here it is understood that the company is not serious, and not worth my time and my money.
I'm not here to cry, much less to pray not to make the changes you have announced, do as you wish, I have willingly played the last 5 years, even if only in recent months I really enjoyed it.
on November 6th we will see what happens, cause and unforeseeable effect.
I dedicate my time and my money elsewhere.
I like hit. I think i will play that for solo content instead of Exe.
Lashing Blade 23.5% damage decrease
Dazing Strike 75.5% damage increase
Duelists Flurry 31.5% damage decrease on first and second hits and a 40.5% damage decrease on the follow up hits.
Bleed proc 40.5% damage decrease
Shadow of Demise 72.9% damage decrease
Weapon enchant procs doing doing alot less also but someone told me they arent working properly so i dont know about those Although I tested my CW and his weapon procs are doing more damage .. along with his abilities. so i dunno.
Havent tested anything else yet but its not promising.
Well, that's NOT me, as you are killing the TR now.
It was already a pain to find a group wanting a TR for run a DG.... now will be totally impossible!!
And TR will be DEAD at PVE....
Thanx again for you doing the wrong thing one more time.
Hope you (Cryptic) gets these feedback from this post and really think about what your doing.