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M15: Trickster Rogue Class Changes

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  • thanasiristhanasiris Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    absolutely gutted.. only just getting to end game as TR as my main guy and seen this. other DPS classes have a hard enough time getting into end game content as it is without getting more nerfs.. like so many have said TR wasn't best PVE anyway so why make them worse... RIP
  • exact0khan#1334 exact0khan Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    Way to ruin the game. I'm end game finally and mod 14 made me actually enjoy playing again.. can't wait to start a new mmo come mod 15.. or before. . This is a joke.
  • sundance777sundance777 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    Thanks Elwing for posting some data.

    I was wondering if the AP Gain block on Lurker's was that intentional or a by product of something to do with the Stealth blocking from damage taken.

    There might be an overall trade off in speeding up Duelist and applying stacks more quickly to get to other powers into the SoD timer, but then increasing the cooldowns of popular encounters seem like a double dunk on our output. I can't math this stuff out tho, so hopefully some others on PC are able to test some more things soon.

    TR - Sun: 16000 IL
    OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL

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  • thesomething000thesomething000 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    could you try changing a couple of things at a time, maybe not a giant rework of most of my commonly used powers? last mod we got one buff. now we get some buffs, some nerfs, and straight up taking away the last thing you buffed... it's an awful lot to digest
  • venoxempirevenoxempire Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Pre MOD14 (Neverwinter Dev team on live stream) - "We need to rework the TR class, we realise its not in a good place right now"

    MOD14 - (Dev team issue a small buff as promised), finally TR's are usable in end game content and are finally asked for in end-game group content.

    MOD15 - Nah just joking guys, back to being the most useless class in the game you go.
  • einsiegeinsieg Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Initially the number of instantaneous doomsday rage posters in the first page pissed me off, because I was pretty confident not a single one of them actually went and tested anything with a weight of mechanical knowledge to see the full results of these changes. Nor did they wait for people with that mechanical knowledge to do that testing and publish results to base an opinion on.

    In this case the doomsday posts have panned out to be true. One of the top TR in the International server has already demonstrated how crippling these changes are.

    TR in this state is not a functional class in PvE. I understand the reason behind a lot of the changes, why Power self-buffs were taken out because TR would simply continue to get more ridiculous as gear with more and more power becomes available, but the cleaving away of 50% of the class's overall damage is beyond overkill. TR was already only competing with top DPS with extremely good rotations, specific very expensive gear and extreme abuse of their ability to buff shared power. Now they are half of a DPS with similar gear.

    Bleed damage needs to be reverted. Shadow of Demise needs to be reverted. Press the Advantage needs to be a different damage buff because Combat Advantage is subject to reduced effectiveness the better your gear is. I think Smoke Bomb was also hit way too hard.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User

    Hey Trickster Rogues,

    Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for because this is the major re-balancing of the Trickster Rogue class! The main goals of this pass were to make sure that Trickster Rogues have more than 1 viable feat tree, powers were getting a more even distribution of usage, and troubling interactions were fixed.

    To accomplish this, we have done a lot of work to all three feat trees, adjusted many encounter, at-will, class feature, and daily powers, and changed the way Stealth regenerates. While a lot of these changes are buffs and quality of life improvements, there are definitely some nerfs in there.

    When tackling stealth, we realized that there were a couple of core problems with the mechanic. In most cases, you would enter a fight and use stealth once but then couldn’t really get away long enough to use it again without using powers like Shadowstrike or having access to the Shadow of Demise feat. To fix this, taking damage now reduces your stealth regeneration, instead of halting it, so that you have more consistent opportunities to use it.

    In PvP there were also some frustrations with Stealth. Since Trickster Rogues could re-enter stealth so often, they were basically untargetable for a majority of a fight. Without hindering the mechanic as a whole, we came up with a solution that will only affect the rogue while they are in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players, but still allow you to gain the mechanical advantages of stealth (such as Shadow of Demise).

    We also increased the time it takes to regain the stealth bar, this is mostly because we want Stealth Regeneration to feel more powerful and we wanted more room for it to grow without it becoming a problem. An example of this can be found in Master Infiltrator; Gloaming Cut now offers a Stealth Regeneration buff for a period of time.

    As for the other changes you will see below, we really wanted to focus on getting lesser-used powers into a better state. We also took a pass at some powers that felt clunky to make them feel a bit more fluid, like Duelist’s Flurry and Gloaming Cut.

    Baseline

    • Stealth Changes
    • Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
    • Stealth: Duration increased to 6 seconds (up from 5 seconds)
    • Stealth: Taking damage no longer interrupts Stealth Regeneration
    • Stealth: Taking damage now halves Stealth Regeneration for 2 seconds (instead of stopping it for 3 seconds)
    • Stealth (PvP): Trickster Rogues will now be visible to opponents when they deal damage from stealth. Powers that do not remove stealth will not reveal the rogue and damage over time effects, such as smoke bomb and path of the blade, will not remove stealth. This only occurs while in a PvP mode.

    Powers

    At-will changes

    • Duelist's Flurry (Revamped): Bleed Chance on each swing has been increased to 100%
    • Duelist's Flurry: Final combo now lasts for 6 attacks, instead of 9
    • Duelist's Flurry: Final combo's animation time has been halved (related to the above)
    • Duelist's Flurry: The final combo of this power no longer reduces your stealth meter by a large amount
      • Now reduces Stealth by 7.5% per swing (~70% for a full combo)
    • Duelist's Flurry: Bleed damage lowered by ~40%
    • Cloud of Steel: Maximum stack count increased to 10 (up from 8)
    • Cloud of Steel: Base damage increased by 12%
    • Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff reduced to 4% (Down from 10%)
    • Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff now stacks up to 3 times (for a total of 12%)
    • Gloaming Cut (Reworked): Damage increased by ~25%
    • Gloaming Cut: Charge time reduced to 0.25s (down from 0.7s)
      • This will make the power cast ~45% faster
    • Gloaming Cut: Execution damage increased to 100% at rank 1 (up from 25%)
      • Note: This is the same as the old rank 4 value
    • Gloaming Cut: Execution damage no longer increases at each rank
    • Gloaming Cut: Stealth gain on kill no longer increases at each rank (20% down from 35% at R4)
    • Gloaming Cut: (NEW) Now increases stealth regeneration by 7.5% for 8 seconds
    • Gloaming Cut: (NEW) Now increases the Stealth Regeneration amount by 2.5% per rank
    • Disheartening Strike (Reworked): The damage debuff has been reduced to 6%
    • Disheartening Strike: The damage debuff per rank has been reduced to 2%
    • Disheartening Strike: Now increases damage you deal to the target by 6%
    • Disheartening Strike: Now increases damage you deal to the target by 2% per rank
    • Disheartening Strike: Duration reduced to 12 seconds (down from 15 seconds)
    • Disheartening Strike: Now deals damage every 2 seconds (up from every 1.5 seconds)
    • Disheartening Strike: (NEW) Now deals minor damage when first applied (About 1 ticks worth of the DoT)
    please keep stealth build up to 10 seconds... that is all that i am asking...
    Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • webrador#5350 webrador Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    "Sry no tr" periods are back. (before mod 14)



    Goodbye trickster rogue.
    Post edited by webrador#5350 on
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    Cyan. No idea how to do that with these simple tools

    ok i might be missing something here but shouldn't combat advantage give a full circle around the mobs feet when granted ? it does with HR using aspect of pack. If this assumption is correct then the TR smokebomb isn't giving combat advantage either straight or stealthed. That would be a bug. Tested on dummies in PE. went stealth and dropped smoke bomb, only quarter arc of blue showed not full circle.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,325 Arc User
    Combat Advantage is completely broken on the Preview sever, from what I've heard.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • mafiadelperro#8853 mafiadelperro Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Im in tears here buff my trickster rogue make me great again
  • tremeliques#2035 tremeliques Member Posts: 63 Arc User

    Cyan. No idea how to do that with these simple tools

    ok i might be missing something here but shouldn't combat advantage give a full circle around the mobs feet when granted ? it does with HR using aspect of pack. If this assumption is correct then the TR smokebomb isn't giving combat advantage either straight or stealthed. That would be a bug. Tested on dummies in PE. went stealth and dropped smoke bomb, only quarter arc of blue showed not full circle.

    there is a bug where smoke bomb doesnt work properly on dummies only hitting them with the first it, said combat advantage effect only occurs on its second hit, also comb adv is broken atm on preview u see the blue lines and everything but its doesnt actually benefit from it

  • mechjockeymechjockey Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    jade#0896 said:

    Are you guys serious. We finally after years and years can compete with other dps and because a small percentage complain bout some TR's out dps others your nerfing this much.. what about all the time and real life money we spent on TR's to get them were they are at, to be able to finally join endgame dungeons. Are you going to repay us for all that time and money we spent on them, because a TR will and is pretty much useless to the game if you go ahead with all the nerfs. What will be next,who will be next to complain when they get out dps by another character nerf them to because there not the best in game, there not the highest dps.. Do you really hate TR's that much.. next will be GWF getting nerfed, then all dps characters. I will be asking for ALL the money i spent on my TR back if this change happens and the game will be deleted..

    Having people forced to continually spend money and not receive anything for it is a feature not a bug. The sad thing is my TR was my Alternate to my Archery HR which claimed to have been buffed but now does less damage on test.

  • slysnow#2290 slysnow Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    > @kalina311 said:
    > "in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players"
    >
    > +1000 : D wonderful news

    TRs currently barely scratch me 1v1 but this is a second nail in the coffin. Lol.
  • stachu0jons#2959 stachu0jons Member Posts: 11 Arc User

    "Sry no tr" periods are back. (before mod 14)

    Exactly, it is not difficult to predict it. Who need the weakest dps class...

    After reading these changes, I feel like someone hit me a baseball bat in the head

    #Emotional_Pain
    B)
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