absolutely gutted.. only just getting to end game as TR as my main guy and seen this. other DPS classes have a hard enough time getting into end game content as it is without getting more nerfs.. like so many have said TR wasn't best PVE anyway so why make them worse... RIP
Way to ruin the game. I'm end game finally and mod 14 made me actually enjoy playing again.. can't wait to start a new mmo come mod 15.. or before. . This is a joke.
2
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited September 2018
Please consider everything bellow as Cyan:
I think what is missing is the context, and why TR even works now, as opposed to the common TR of 2 years ago.
Long ago, and mostly not end-game TRs today, use Duelist Flurry to stack bleed.
TR rely on power, and the artificers insignia. There are several variants, SoD first, daily next, or vice versa but the most important part is the daily and the artifacts
1. Stealth->ITC (6% from Cunning Ambusher, and increasing power from Press the Advantage) 2. Using a daily (whirlwind/ courage breaker), increasing self power, proccing Invisible infiltrator buff and Infiltrator’s Action (OH) buff 3. Using an artifact, usually one of the heart artifacts and missing the target. This proccs both Artificers insignia for 15% Power to recovery and AP gain. 4. Stealth->Encounter = SoD 5. More encounters like SB
The most important part to understand is at this point in an optimal group that has AC DC And OP at this point the CD reductions on encounters and AP gain is high enough to repeat the process without any at-wills or only few Sly hits.
There is full investment into self buffs of damage, power from dailies, class features and using the highest AP gain encounters to help maintain this cycle. And allows keep using encounters at a high rate while maintaining the buffs.
This relies heavily on having AC DC and OP, and the synergy with power increase and AP gain is what makes the current TR play-style successful.
Now the changes gutted it completely, returning it to mostly at-will based class, but without fixing the fundamental issues that plagued it about 2 years ago.
Stealth Changes Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds) Stealth: Duration increased to 6 seconds (up from 5 seconds) Stealth: Taking damage no longer interrupts Stealth Regeneration Stealth: Taking damage now halves Stealth Regeneration for 2 seconds (instead of stopping it for 3 seconds)
1. In PvE a TR doesn't run around in stealth, the stealth duration is mostly irrelevant. It was used to force crit on at-wills (and viable for not geared players) but because it couldn't replace stacking the crit stat to 100% without leaving gaps in the roation without crit, players are forced to use stealth as a trigger for SoD or modifier for encounters, and ignore the crit. As such stealth duration is not a buff, more so, this is a nerf to SoD, where players who are not in optimal group will not have enough AP gain to recharge Daily in 6-12 seconds will have to wait for stealth natural recharge to proc SoD again, creating a 6 seconds gap. While currently SoD can be maintained at worst case with 4 seconds gap (6 duration + 4 wait for stealh recharge to 10 seconds)
2. Taking damage didn't interrupt Stealth Regeneration for exe due to SoD, this is again a nerf to SoD as it was part of its benefits.
Duelist's Flurry (Revamped): Bleed Chance on each swing has been increased to 100% Duelist's Flurry: Final combo now lasts for 6 attacks, instead of 9 Duelist's Flurry: Final combo's animation time has been halved (related to the above) Duelist's Flurry: The final combo of this power no longer reduces your stealth meter by a large amount
Now reduces Stealth by 7.5% per swing (~70% for a full combo)
Duelist's Flurry: Bleed damage lowered by ~40%
Good: 1. Lower stealth reduction helps lower geared players to do the last hit in stealth and get a critical bleed. 2. 100% chance helps to have more 'fixed' rotation and less guessing what to do in middle of a fight -> better learning curve for the class.
Bad: 1. Still need 2 Rotations to get the full bleed stacks, this is still the main issue with moving targets or targets that will die fast. 2. The Bleed damage is what made it all worth it. Need to check the numbers but seems that Sly Flourish will be better in most cases.
Cloud of Steel
Not ranged TR, don't see much use of this anyway.
Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff reduced to 4% (Down from 10%) Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff now stacks up to 3 times (for a total of 12%)
This encourages to maintain using Sly debuff over DF bleed making DF even less viable.
Suggestion: -- The bleed uptime of DF should be higher than 5 or so seconds (In PvE) to make it viable for those that can and want to get the most of the class to maintain both the bleed and the debuff. More ticks of bleed after the flurry will allow using DF + another encounter. This will also allow to stack the bleed in a fixed rotation, for example, daily, encounter, encounter, encounter, DF (6 bleed stacks), daily, encounter, encounter, encounter, DF (going to 10 stacks). And not force doing 2 DFs when the encounter off Cooldown.
Also There is no practical reason for the 40% bleed nerf as is. DF is not used in end-game parties, Sly is used instead, so nerfing it makes it even less viable.
I was wondering if the AP Gain block on Lurker's was that intentional or a by product of something to do with the Stealth blocking from damage taken.
There might be an overall trade off in speeding up Duelist and applying stacks more quickly to get to other powers into the SoD timer, but then increasing the cooldowns of popular encounters seem like a double dunk on our output. I can't math this stuff out tho, so hopefully some others on PC are able to test some more things soon.
TR - Sun: 16000 IL OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Please consider everything bellow as Cyan:
Smoke Bomb (Revamped): Damage reduced by 30% Smoke Bomb: Fixed an issue where Smoke Bomb wasn't correctly reading in a damage table (damage increased by ~8%) Smoke Bomb: Duration is now 5 seconds at all ranks (instead of 2-5 based on rank) Smoke Bomb: Stealth: No longer slows enemies Smoke Bomb: Base cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 18 seconds) Smoke Bomb: Stealth: Now grants Combat Advantage against all enemies in Smoke Bomb Smoke Bomb: Now reduces the cooldown by 2s per rank-up Smoke Bomb: Now triggers at the user's feet instead of being 5' in front of them
This is the main AoE skill for TR. 1. It is not Smoke Bomb that is significant to the damage but a wrong interaction with AoC which should be corrected, and smoke bomb damage should be buffed instead to compensate. 2. Smoke Bomb should grant Combat Advantage regardless of stealth because it's a Daze effect and should grant CA. A better Stealth Smoke Bomb variant can be 15% debuff for enemies inside the smoke for example, or self buff, or even party buff, or even wider effect if applied from stealth, but CA should be granted anyway.
Whirlwind of Blades: Now grants +8% outgoing damage for each target hit (up to 5) Whirlwind of Blades: Buff duration reduced to 10 seconds (from 12 seconds)
This is the source of THE nerf in all of this for AoE.
First off all, as described, TR relies on the synergy of power increase and artificers. This kills it. Second, even regardless, the more power there is then the closer doubling it will be closer to 100% damage buff. Meaning that, with 150k power, which is normal for a party, 100% power increase will be 79% damage buff. 250k x 2, will be 86% damage increase. And so on..
Making this 40%... is sad, very very sad....
Combined with the duration reduction and the death of synergy with artificers... RIP.
Courage Breaker: Now slows the target by 70% (down from 90%) Courage Breaker: Now places a 25% Damage Reduction Debuff on the target, +5% per rank Courage Breaker: Now places a 12.5% Damage Resistance Reduction Debuff on the target, +2.5% per rank Courage Breaker: No longer increases player power by 25% Courage Breaker: Duration is now 8 seconds (down from 10 for PvE, up from 5 for PvP)
As above, the synergy with power... 12.5% DR Debuff is not significant especially for a daily if considering the diminishing returns and other class that can apply plenty of those.
Suggestion: Please reconsider the changes to the dailies there... And please remove the AP gain block from Lurkers Assault
could you try changing a couple of things at a time, maybe not a giant rework of most of my commonly used powers? last mod we got one buff. now we get some buffs, some nerfs, and straight up taking away the last thing you buffed... it's an awful lot to digest
Initially the number of instantaneous doomsday rage posters in the first page pissed me off, because I was pretty confident not a single one of them actually went and tested anything with a weight of mechanical knowledge to see the full results of these changes. Nor did they wait for people with that mechanical knowledge to do that testing and publish results to base an opinion on.
In this case the doomsday posts have panned out to be true. One of the top TR in the International server has already demonstrated how crippling these changes are.
TR in this state is not a functional class in PvE. I understand the reason behind a lot of the changes, why Power self-buffs were taken out because TR would simply continue to get more ridiculous as gear with more and more power becomes available, but the cleaving away of 50% of the class's overall damage is beyond overkill. TR was already only competing with top DPS with extremely good rotations, specific very expensive gear and extreme abuse of their ability to buff shared power. Now they are half of a DPS with similar gear.
Bleed damage needs to be reverted. Shadow of Demise needs to be reverted. Press the Advantage needs to be a different damage buff because Combat Advantage is subject to reduced effectiveness the better your gear is. I think Smoke Bomb was also hit way too hard.
its best to split the PVP and PVE servers up and have a selection when you log in to select if you want to go into PVP or PVE and have nerf and buffs for the servers separate. All anyone does is complain about TR in PVP and then they get nerfed. Then if TR is to "op" in PVP nerf it on the PVP server, don't have it affect the TR at end game in PVE and make it useless.
6
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Hopefully this is the moment you’ve all been waiting for because this is the major re-balancing of the Trickster Rogue class! The main goals of this pass were to make sure that Trickster Rogues have more than 1 viable feat tree, powers were getting a more even distribution of usage, and troubling interactions were fixed.
To accomplish this, we have done a lot of work to all three feat trees, adjusted many encounter, at-will, class feature, and daily powers, and changed the way Stealth regenerates. While a lot of these changes are buffs and quality of life improvements, there are definitely some nerfs in there.
When tackling stealth, we realized that there were a couple of core problems with the mechanic. In most cases, you would enter a fight and use stealth once but then couldn’t really get away long enough to use it again without using powers like Shadowstrike or having access to the Shadow of Demise feat. To fix this, taking damage now reduces your stealth regeneration, instead of halting it, so that you have more consistent opportunities to use it.
In PvP there were also some frustrations with Stealth. Since Trickster Rogues could re-enter stealth so often, they were basically untargetable for a majority of a fight. Without hindering the mechanic as a whole, we came up with a solution that will only affect the rogue while they are in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players, but still allow you to gain the mechanical advantages of stealth (such as Shadow of Demise).
We also increased the time it takes to regain the stealth bar, this is mostly because we want Stealth Regeneration to feel more powerful and we wanted more room for it to grow without it becoming a problem. An example of this can be found in Master Infiltrator; Gloaming Cut now offers a Stealth Regeneration buff for a period of time.
As for the other changes you will see below, we really wanted to focus on getting lesser-used powers into a better state. We also took a pass at some powers that felt clunky to make them feel a bit more fluid, like Duelist’s Flurry and Gloaming Cut.
Baseline
Stealth Changes
Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
Stealth: Duration increased to 6 seconds (up from 5 seconds)
Stealth: Taking damage no longer interrupts Stealth Regeneration
Stealth: Taking damage now halves Stealth Regeneration for 2 seconds (instead of stopping it for 3 seconds)
Stealth (PvP): Trickster Rogues will now be visible to opponents when they deal damage from stealth. Powers that do not remove stealth will not reveal the rogue and damage over time effects, such as smoke bomb and path of the blade, will not remove stealth. This only occurs while in a PvP mode.
Powers
At-will changes
Duelist's Flurry (Revamped): Bleed Chance on each swing has been increased to 100%
Duelist's Flurry: Final combo now lasts for 6 attacks, instead of 9
Duelist's Flurry: Final combo's animation time has been halved (related to the above)
Duelist's Flurry: The final combo of this power no longer reduces your stealth meter by a large amount
Now reduces Stealth by 7.5% per swing (~70% for a full combo)
Duelist's Flurry: Bleed damage lowered by ~40%
Cloud of Steel: Maximum stack count increased to 10 (up from 8)
Cloud of Steel: Base damage increased by 12%
Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff reduced to 4% (Down from 10%)
Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff now stacks up to 3 times (for a total of 12%)
Gloaming Cut (Reworked): Damage increased by ~25%
Gloaming Cut: Charge time reduced to 0.25s (down from 0.7s)
This will make the power cast ~45% faster
Gloaming Cut: Execution damage increased to 100% at rank 1 (up from 25%)
Note: This is the same as the old rank 4 value
Gloaming Cut: Execution damage no longer increases at each rank
Gloaming Cut: Stealth gain on kill no longer increases at each rank (20% down from 35% at R4)
Gloaming Cut: (NEW) Now increases stealth regeneration by 7.5% for 8 seconds
Gloaming Cut: (NEW) Now increases the Stealth Regeneration amount by 2.5% per rank
Disheartening Strike (Reworked): The damage debuff has been reduced to 6%
Disheartening Strike: The damage debuff per rank has been reduced to 2%
Disheartening Strike: Now increases damage you deal to the target by 6%
Disheartening Strike: Now increases damage you deal to the target by 2% per rank
Disheartening Strike: Duration reduced to 12 seconds (down from 15 seconds)
Disheartening Strike: Now deals damage every 2 seconds (up from every 1.5 seconds)
Disheartening Strike: (NEW) Now deals minor damage when first applied (About 1 ticks worth of the DoT)
please keep stealth build up to 10 seconds... that is all that i am asking... Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Dear balancing Team. I'm sure you've noticed by now, these changes are *not* what we, as TR players expected, nor were hoping for. I understand the attempt at balancing out the TR's different paragon paths. I do not understand why the main path has to get so horrificly nerfed. I would advise, rather than nerfing the meta, just buffing the non-meta. As others before me, these changes will decrease the TR's damage by ~50%. That is absolutely insane, to say the least. I dont understand how this would be an anticipated change... for anyone. I will summarize the most gravitating changes briefly.
Smoke Bomb: A must have ability for sure. Good AoE and Mob-Group Control, just what we need for pve.
-30% damage debuff though - Too hefty of a change. This is an insane nerf considering some other changes to SoD and other paragon abilites.
As for the cooldown-as far as I can tell from reading and understanding, the cooldown wont be changed much, as it continues to go down the more upgrade points have been invested, so technically it will be even lower than before?
Duelists Flurry: This change is a very weird decision. 100% Blood stack chance is nothing we need. It would usually take 2 to 3 rounds of this ability to reach 10 stacks-with the new changes it will always take 2.(because total cuts have been decreased) Not a big help.
>Reducing the damage by ~40% is also way overboard. This ability used to synergize wonderfully with SoD-(which got nerfed really hard aswell)
Sly Flourish: Obviously not a bad change. It will now take three rotations to get 12% reduction. Thats a good change, as it is an indirect buff. Combined with the changes of Duelists Flurry there was an attempt at balancing, but instead it actually did something that you wanted to fight against-Must have abilities, that are way better than others. Now we got exactly that issue with those 2 Free At-Wills. Sly Flourish seems to outclass Duelists Flurry by alot now
Cloud of Steel: No one plays a ranged TR. This would be a minimal change to some PVP rogues, if even that. I dont see a reason for these changes.
Now for the most questionable changes. I will start with the changes to the Dailys.
Courage Breaker:
>Taking away the 25% bonus Power is an insane change. I am pretty sure reducing enemies damage resistance will not compensate for that. The lost power also has a huge impact on other synergizing effects that grant power.
Whirlwind of Blades: As it is not obvious from the patch notes or from the ingame description of the ability to see how much power that gave before, I cant really say much about that. I will just kindly assume that it was 10% per mob which has been decreased by 2%. A less impactful change, but an unnecessary one nontheless.
-I do understand that the infinite power stacking IS a major reason as to why you decided to change the abilities like you did. I dont understand why the effects of both abilites could not just be made to overwrite each other when used while one is still active.
And now, for the most mind blowing part:
Shadow of Demise.
These changes will make it just as bad, if not worse, as it has been just a couple of Mods ago. I remember the main goal was to adjust TR dps to match other classes dps. Mod 13-14 changes were absolutely amazing and highly enjoyable. It felt balanced and well thought out. Basicly revamping the changes in company with all these other changes is absolutely incomprehensible to me.
There is more minor stuff that will have effects, just as the paragon changes and adjustments, but as mentioned above, I wanted to "briefly" summarize.
I truly hope you will reconsider the changes after reading all these comments of dedicated and desperate Rogue mains. I dont think your goal was to reduce damage of TR's by 50%. I think you wanted to make other paths viable so another kind of playstyle would develope, which would have around the same dps. This is absolutely not the case. Now no path is fully viable anymore.
If these changes go through to global-servers I will feel urged to stop playing again. I had *just* taken a break of the game after the rogue changes somewhere around Mod 10 to 12. I dont want to do that again as I am really enjoying the game at the current state. I have already invested many hundreds since I came back, and I dont want that to feel like an absolute waste of money.
Yours faithfully,
Uburgi, a TR since the first breath of Neverwinter after closed Beta.
This nerf to TR class would make sense if all other classes were toned down as well but they were all buffed instead. I think this change affects TR class more than you realize, its not the first time. With mod14 SoD was changed to be based on mitigated damage intentionally without realizing that it would be double dipping. No shame in it, mistakes happen but please listen to the feedback. We said that SoD change was bad before it went live, it was bad design and was too powerful only to get adjusted few weeks after going live, back to old SoD version where the hit itself is non-mitigated piercing damage.
Please take into consideration what @tremeliques#2035 said one first page of comments and what @micky1p00 said on the 3rd page. Both are experienced players who know how the TR class breathes. This feedback is coming from experienced end-game players and our opinion is that these changes are too much of a nerf. Recently i said: TR is fine as long as they dont touch Daily powers and now you touched our Daily powers.
In Janne's(micky) comment there are two TR guides linked, explaining the core mechanics of the class, taking a look at them will help a lot in balancing TR. Using Daily powers often, high AP gain, high Power stat are crucial things for TR class. All our Power stat increasing abilities are removed (WoB, CB, ITC feat) and we are a class which needs the Recovery the most probably and thus unable to have high Power in the first place, with these new changes.
We had far higher Power stat than any other class due to our old Daily versions and we were only significantly stronger than other classes in certain situtation - long fight, which dont exist in end game. Only example is Arcolith IF you dont use Silvering kit. Thats the only place where TR has time to powerloop and overpower other classes easily. Rest of the situations we are having trouble keeping up with HR, GF and GWF since boss fights are too short to gain any advantage with powerstacking and it wasnt done, Lurkers Assault was used instead in combination with one of the WoB/CB.
Like already mentioned, the change to WoB daily is not even half as good as old WoB was. Maximum buff now is 40% while we were able to pull around 90% with old WoB. High power numbers, i know, but thats what was needed for TR to compete with other classes. WoB buff duration also reduced by 2 secs, another thing not going in our favor.
CB changed to 20% DR debuff is not half as good as our old CB was and duration reduced by 2 seconds, dont really mind the duration reduction. ITC feat no longer giving Power stat either. WoB made CB and ITC give twice more Power than they should have and still it was hard to compete. Smoke bomb proccing AoC 4 times per tick, too much i know, still not making TR overpowered.
If all of these things didnt make TR brokenly powerful in real end-game fight i wonder what will be left of TR when you strip all these things down. Power removal from Dailies and ITC feat affects our benefit from Artificers persuasion, which we rely heavily upon and the fact that Dailies were nerfed by more than 50%. AoC making around 50% of our damage with current interaction with Smoke Bomb, huge nerf when this gets fixed.
Less power> less benefit from Artificers>less Dailies> less class features> less stealth and less SoD.
I like what you did with Saboteur and Scoundrel tho. Duelists flurry, interesting change but wont be used. With lower benefit from Artificers we will suffer more from longer cooldowns.
Here are some bugs that we encountered. As mentioned, Smoke bomb triggers AoC 4 times per tick. Disheartening Strike doesnt have 12% buff in preview if our test is correct. Blade Flurry is bugged and can be used endlessly, if it happens to not bug out it doesnt give AP gain during hits and only gives 3% when it goes on cooldown. While the damage increase is nice its AP gain is terrible as it ever was and thus wasnt/wont be used. AP gain is not on par with other powers. Skullcracker effect is realistically not 10 seconds long and down time is longer than 5 seconds. The mark from this capstone gets applied to bosses but its duration is not extended by 4 more seconds from damage done. Its a capstone with highest down time, needs adjustment. Gloaming cut animation while not a bug still feels slow.
Please consider removing AP gain block on Lurkers Assault if these changes are going to stay.
Cyan. No idea how to do that with these simple tools
ok i might be missing something here but shouldn't combat advantage give a full circle around the mobs feet when granted ? it does with HR using aspect of pack. If this assumption is correct then the TR smokebomb isn't giving combat advantage either straight or stealthed. That would be a bug. Tested on dummies in PE. went stealth and dropped smoke bomb, only quarter arc of blue showed not full circle.
Head up but this will be a long post about all the relevant changes to the class, please read it as it will inform you why things are bad or good, if you wish you can skip the math part ^^. ( this is a PVE analysis and will be dedicated to powers not feats)
I will try to be as direct as possible and tackle all the changes worth mentioning.
Stealth: as mentioned before, all the changes wont affect damage potential simply because every tr should be using a daily at least every 10 seconds, this if it wants any type of chance to stay competitive, and said daily would trigger the Invisible Infiltrator feat that would restore your stealth bar.
At-will changes
Duelist's Flurry: also as said before it takes 2 rotations of the at-will to be able to have the maximum amount of bleed stacks. on its older version u could get the 10 bleed stacks with 2 rotations of the at-will as well, there are 2 bad things here and one ok-ish. -bad thing nº 1: the at-will it self ( needed to have around 7 bleed stacks to be comparable with sly flourish in dps wise, now u made it 40% weaker, in other words it ll never be better then sly even at maximum stacks. -bad thing nº 2: the amount of time that said bleed would last is way to small making the player have to keep using it, doing a full rotation could be enough to make it wear off making it almost worthless since the players has to lose way too much with nothing even worth gaining. -ok-ish thing: the decrease in the at-will duration, still not enough to make it viable though.
Sly Flourish: now this at-will will have a 2% bigger debuff on the target, but will take 3 times longer to apply, not a good buff but not a bad one either.
Gloaming Cut: this power got a really good buff and I can totally start seeing it being used, specially since the class will have to start using more at-wills the choice would be between this power and sly flourish.
Encounter Changes
Smoke Bomb: there is a lot of dilemma with this power so i ll put topics. 1- Its bugged: the thing is, what makes this power so good is not the power itself, its an interaction where it gets extra procs from aura of courage 4 times for every dmg tick of smoke bomb, in other words even if this power did 0 damage, it would still be used simply because of this bug that hasn't been fixed even tho it has been posted multiple times. in other words please fix this bug and actually increase the damage from smoke bomb because its damage is not as great as most think. 2-the cool down in the end will be 2 seconds lower that what it used to be but comparing to the cool downs the class lost with all of these changes its a good thought but doesn't make it to be a positive thing in the end. 3-the fact that it only gives combat advantage from stealth its what i call nonsense, as stated on other comments it should have it as a default part of it, just like every other power that can daze targets so please give it another proper effect ( if needed take more of its damage away and make it being able to buff or debuff, something along those lines, it would make tr more useful in parties which is exactly the opposite of what the class is at the moment.
Impossible to Catch: while talking about this power i ll refer to the feat that also affects it. as similar to the smoke bomb it now has a lower base cool down compared to before but also suffers the same problem of the class not being able to get as many cool downs, another down-point is the fact that it lost 20% of its up-time, might not be much but it is. now referring the feat ( Press the Advantage ), this feat used to increase your power buffed power by 10% making it one of the main causes to use impossible to catch in the first place, taking that away and increasing our combat advantage damage by 10%, I'm not sure if this means that it will multiply our existing combat advantage damage by 1.1 or if it will add 10% to the existing amount, this can't be checked simply because combat advantage is broken on preview and doesn't work. -math ahead:
if it was a 1.1 multiply it would increase the combat advantage damage of the user by around 6%-7% in a best in case scenario, i ll be using the best case for this just to show how big the difference is ( 1+((0.87+0.225+0.025+(0.15+0.1+0.25+0.08+0.1)*1.1)) its around 2.868 times the original damage, this only includes base damage, base critical severity + the extra from boons+ potions+ razorwood bonus + base combat advantage + extra one from charisma+ extra from the combat advantage stat the underdark boon and the new feat) now if we take the feat out and do 2.868/2.758 and can see that it only increases our damage by less then 4%, this is if we count that all our dmg can crit and that's not the case but knowing that around 40% of it cant and knowing the amount combat advantage it will have we can tell that it will increase the player damage overall by 5%, this is nothing! in comparison we would get 10% of our power but thanks to whirlwind of blades we would get 20% ( more explanation about it ahead), if we had 200k power in a party without even using power multiplier abilities, which is nothing special to do now, we would get 40k power, that would be worth (40k+220k)/(40k+200k) = and increase of almost 17%, half that if you don't have whirlwind of blades buff up
TL DR before change it gives 17% damage increase after change it gives 5%. about the 25% damage resistance and movement increase its not something commenting about since it doesn't really affect game-play that much.
Blade Flurry: its damage did get increased by a good amount ( someone forgot to mention in the patch notes that the power now increases by 10% instead of 15% on each rank like before :P ), can be used more now but the thing is that we can use a power like dazing strike to hit enemies for even more damage with less then half the cool down and faster animation. its cool down its still obsolete for something that has a 20 sec cool down giving around 3% action points is laughable, wouldn't use it my self.
Daily Changes( the most important stuff, AKA the core of the class)
Courage Breaker: soo... this daily used increase our power by 25%, it would fall under the same effect of whirlwind as press the advantage, so with whirlwind hitting 5 targets courage breaker would increase our damage by 50%, yes 50% accounting for 200k buffed power before any power multiplier that would be an increase of around 42% more damage, all from this daily ( half that without the buff form whirlwind). now it does a mere 20% debuff, for those that don't know if the target has just 100% debuff on it ( u can reach 200% in good parties BTW) that 20% debuff amounts for ONLY a 8% damage increase, once again this is huge difference.
Whirlwind of Blades: ok, so this ll be the biggest one to try to explain since almost no one knows how it actually works so buckle up. the old tool tip of this power says that the user gains power for each enemy that is it, not very specific isn't it, well it turns out that it works the same as the dragon born power buff, it acts as a multiplier to the user power instead of just adding it being a multiplier of 20% per target hit, example: u have 100 power, u use the daily and double it getting 200 , but u then proc something that gives you extra 2 power, that extra 2 power will also fall under the daily effect making the used end up with 204. now a more real and complicated example with values of an usual endgame run: -math ahead:
the player has 250k power thanks to the power share from his team mates, he then uses whirlwind hitting 5 enemies doubling it ending up with 500k, this by itself is already worth (40k+ 500k)/(40k+250k)= 86% damage increase ( this is just to compare with the actual buff of ONLY 40% dmg increase) , now following that up the user uses courage breaker, increasing its power once again but this time its addictive, so it adds 25% of the existing power, but then again it falls under the whirlwind buff doubling it, in other words it gives 50% making the user have 750 power after that, now to finish it off the player uses impossible to catch triggering its power increasing feat that also falls under the same effect since its an addictive effect, so u end up with 900k power, just form this 3 effects we multiplied our original power by a total of 3.6 times, also after all of this our damage was increased by 324%, yup that much this is what the current TR has to do to stay competitive ( compare it with the mire buffs we got, a 40% one + one worth 5% and another around 8% + a bit more here in there from other powers but nothing close enough to the value that we need to be useful. also as you can deduce the only thing able to do a power loop doesn't occur with whirlwind and courage breaker it can only occur with press the advantage feat and courage breaker since they are both addictive.
TL DR whirlwind acts as a power multiplier when courage breaker and press the advantage only add power, TRs on live servers are able to multiply their power by 3.6 times and thanks to that could get around 324% worth of buffs, meanwhile if this changes go live it wont even reach half that amount.
Final notes: this was only a look at how at-wills, encounters and dailies were affected, this not even accounting for the fact that the loss in damage that the class will have from losing recovery when activating artificers were we get 15% of our power, all of these were the core functions and synergy of the class, please be aware of the changes that weren't accounted for on this TR rework. If any clarification is needed just ask and I ll try my best to explain it depending on my time. Thx for reading.
Cyan. No idea how to do that with these simple tools
ok i might be missing something here but shouldn't combat advantage give a full circle around the mobs feet when granted ? it does with HR using aspect of pack. If this assumption is correct then the TR smokebomb isn't giving combat advantage either straight or stealthed. That would be a bug. Tested on dummies in PE. went stealth and dropped smoke bomb, only quarter arc of blue showed not full circle.
there is a bug where smoke bomb doesnt work properly on dummies only hitting them with the first it, said combat advantage effect only occurs on its second hit, also comb adv is broken atm on preview u see the blue lines and everything but its doesnt actually benefit from it
Are you guys serious. We finally after years and years can compete with other dps and because a small percentage complain bout some TR's out dps others your nerfing this much.. what about all the time and real life money we spent on TR's to get them were they are at, to be able to finally join endgame dungeons. Are you going to repay us for all that time and money we spent on them, because a TR will and is pretty much useless to the game if you go ahead with all the nerfs. What will be next,who will be next to complain when they get out dps by another character nerf them to because there not the best in game, there not the highest dps.. Do you really hate TR's that much.. next will be GWF getting nerfed, then all dps characters. I will be asking for ALL the money i spent on my TR back if this change happens and the game will be deleted..
Having people forced to continually spend money and not receive anything for it is a feature not a bug. The sad thing is my TR was my Alternate to my Archery HR which claimed to have been buffed but now does less damage on test.
1
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited September 2018
"in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players"
+1000 : D wonderful news
Bait and Switch (Reworked): The decoy will now force enemies to attack it when enemies are tricked (this does not work for Bosses)
Comments
How about... instead of nerfing desired powers, making those lesser-used powers more desirable?
I feel like you've nerfed the power we currently use to *force* us to consider powers that are at best "meh"
I think what is missing is the context, and why TR even works now, as opposed to the common TR of 2 years ago.
Long ago, and mostly not end-game TRs today, use Duelist Flurry to stack bleed.
Today, end-game TR relays on dailies and encounters.
The long version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Dwtx9Or-UOhrZOKwOWz8_O_Yzu_mX3Q5xE-QX6OkGA/edit?usp=sharing
The shorter versions (Rotation section):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTPwgW3YB-JQaQb8VU7aoSy3TlWVAHu9sdXUC1fFSjmFEeioeqSErekITGB509P9HqTNIlomE_sTa6m/pub
In essence:
TR rely on power, and the artificers insignia.
There are several variants, SoD first, daily next, or vice versa but the most important part is the daily and the artifacts
1. Stealth->ITC (6% from Cunning Ambusher, and increasing power from Press the Advantage)
2. Using a daily (whirlwind/ courage breaker), increasing self power, proccing Invisible infiltrator buff and Infiltrator’s Action (OH) buff
3. Using an artifact, usually one of the heart artifacts and missing the target. This proccs both Artificers insignia for 15% Power to recovery and AP gain.
4. Stealth->Encounter = SoD
5. More encounters like SB
The most important part to understand is at this point in an optimal group that has AC DC And OP at this point the CD reductions on encounters and AP gain is high enough to repeat the process without any at-wills or only few Sly hits.
There is full investment into self buffs of damage, power from dailies, class features and using the highest AP gain encounters to help maintain this cycle. And allows keep using encounters at a high rate while maintaining the buffs.
This relies heavily on having AC DC and OP, and the synergy with power increase and AP gain is what makes the current TR play-style successful.
Now the changes gutted it completely, returning it to mostly at-will based class, but without fixing the fundamental issues that plagued it about 2 years ago.
Stealth Changes
Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
Stealth: Duration increased to 6 seconds (up from 5 seconds)
Stealth: Taking damage no longer interrupts Stealth Regeneration
Stealth: Taking damage now halves Stealth Regeneration for 2 seconds (instead of stopping it for 3 seconds)
1. In PvE a TR doesn't run around in stealth, the stealth duration is mostly irrelevant. It was used to force crit on at-wills (and viable for not geared players) but because it couldn't replace stacking the crit stat to 100% without leaving gaps in the roation without crit, players are forced to use stealth as a trigger for SoD or modifier for encounters, and ignore the crit. As such stealth duration is not a buff, more so, this is a nerf to SoD, where players who are not in optimal group will not have enough AP gain to recharge Daily in 6-12 seconds will have to wait for stealth natural recharge to proc SoD again, creating a 6 seconds gap.
While currently SoD can be maintained at worst case with 4 seconds gap (6 duration + 4 wait for stealh recharge to 10 seconds)
2. Taking damage didn't interrupt Stealth Regeneration for exe due to SoD, this is again a nerf to SoD as it was part of its benefits.
Duelist's Flurry (Revamped): Bleed Chance on each swing has been increased to 100%
Duelist's Flurry: Final combo now lasts for 6 attacks, instead of 9
Duelist's Flurry: Final combo's animation time has been halved (related to the above)
Duelist's Flurry: The final combo of this power no longer reduces your stealth meter by a large amount
Now reduces Stealth by 7.5% per swing (~70% for a full combo)
Duelist's Flurry: Bleed damage lowered by ~40%
Good:
1. Lower stealth reduction helps lower geared players to do the last hit in stealth and get a critical bleed.
2. 100% chance helps to have more 'fixed' rotation and less guessing what to do in middle of a fight -> better learning curve for the class.
Bad:
1. Still need 2 Rotations to get the full bleed stacks, this is still the main issue with moving targets or targets that will die fast.
2. The Bleed damage is what made it all worth it. Need to check the numbers but seems that Sly Flourish will be better in most cases.
Not ranged TR, don't see much use of this anyway.
Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff reduced to 4% (Down from 10%)
Sly Flourish: Broken Armor debuff now stacks up to 3 times (for a total of 12%)
This encourages to maintain using Sly debuff over DF bleed making DF even less viable.
Suggestion:
-- The bleed uptime of DF should be higher than 5 or so seconds (In PvE) to make it viable for those that can and want to get the most of the class to maintain both the bleed and the debuff.
More ticks of bleed after the flurry will allow using DF + another encounter. This will also allow to stack the bleed in a fixed rotation, for example, daily, encounter, encounter, encounter, DF (6 bleed stacks), daily, encounter, encounter, encounter, DF (going to 10 stacks). And not force doing 2 DFs when the encounter off Cooldown.
Also There is no practical reason for the 40% bleed nerf as is. DF is not used in end-game parties, Sly is used instead, so nerfing it makes it even less viable.
Continue next post...
I was wondering if the AP Gain block on Lurker's was that intentional or a by product of something to do with the Stealth blocking from damage taken.
There might be an overall trade off in speeding up Duelist and applying stacks more quickly to get to other powers into the SoD timer, but then increasing the cooldowns of popular encounters seem like a double dunk on our output. I can't math this stuff out tho, so hopefully some others on PC are able to test some more things soon.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Smoke Bomb (Revamped): Damage reduced by 30%
Smoke Bomb: Fixed an issue where Smoke Bomb wasn't correctly reading in a damage table (damage increased by ~8%)
Smoke Bomb: Duration is now 5 seconds at all ranks (instead of 2-5 based on rank)
Smoke Bomb: Stealth: No longer slows enemies
Smoke Bomb: Base cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 18 seconds)
Smoke Bomb: Stealth: Now grants Combat Advantage against all enemies in Smoke Bomb
Smoke Bomb: Now reduces the cooldown by 2s per rank-up
Smoke Bomb: Now triggers at the user's feet instead of being 5' in front of them
This is the main AoE skill for TR.
1. It is not Smoke Bomb that is significant to the damage but a wrong interaction with AoC which should be corrected, and smoke bomb damage should be buffed instead to compensate.
2. Smoke Bomb should grant Combat Advantage regardless of stealth because it's a Daze effect and should grant CA. A better Stealth Smoke Bomb variant can be 15% debuff for enemies inside the smoke for example, or self buff, or even party buff, or even wider effect if applied from stealth, but CA should be granted anyway.
Whirlwind of Blades: Now grants +8% outgoing damage for each target hit (up to 5)
Whirlwind of Blades: Buff duration reduced to 10 seconds (from 12 seconds)
This is the source of THE nerf in all of this for AoE.
First off all, as described, TR relies on the synergy of power increase and artificers. This kills it.
Second, even regardless, the more power there is then the closer doubling it will be closer to 100% damage buff.
Meaning that, with 150k power, which is normal for a party, 100% power increase will be 79% damage buff.
250k x 2, will be 86% damage increase. And so on..
Making this 40%... is sad, very very sad....
Combined with the duration reduction and the death of synergy with artificers... RIP.
Courage Breaker: Now slows the target by 70% (down from 90%)
Courage Breaker: Now places a 25% Damage Reduction Debuff on the target, +5% per rank
Courage Breaker: Now places a 12.5% Damage Resistance Reduction Debuff on the target, +2.5% per rank
Courage Breaker: No longer increases player power by 25%
Courage Breaker: Duration is now 8 seconds (down from 10 for PvE, up from 5 for PvP)
As above, the synergy with power...
12.5% DR Debuff is not significant especially for a daily if considering the diminishing returns and other class that can apply plenty of those.
Suggestion:
Please reconsider the changes to the dailies there...
And please remove the AP gain block from Lurkers Assault
To be continued later..
Then it was changes to M15's gear and sources of rough AD.
Now It's deleting the only class I find even remotely fun in this linear and boring game.
If these changes go through, Im quitting. Not a threat or a warning. Its a fact!
MOD14 - (Dev team issue a small buff as promised), finally TR's are usable in end game content and are finally asked for in end-game group content.
MOD15 - Nah just joking guys, back to being the most useless class in the game you go.
In this case the doomsday posts have panned out to be true. One of the top TR in the International server has already demonstrated how crippling these changes are.
TR in this state is not a functional class in PvE. I understand the reason behind a lot of the changes, why Power self-buffs were taken out because TR would simply continue to get more ridiculous as gear with more and more power becomes available, but the cleaving away of 50% of the class's overall damage is beyond overkill. TR was already only competing with top DPS with extremely good rotations, specific very expensive gear and extreme abuse of their ability to buff shared power. Now they are half of a DPS with similar gear.
Bleed damage needs to be reverted. Shadow of Demise needs to be reverted. Press the Advantage needs to be a different damage buff because Combat Advantage is subject to reduced effectiveness the better your gear is. I think Smoke Bomb was also hit way too hard.
Stealth: Now takes 12.5 seconds to build a full bar (up from 10 seconds)
Smoke Bomb: A must have ability for sure. Good AoE and Mob-Group Control, just what we need for pve.
-30% damage debuff though - Too hefty of a change. This is an insane nerf considering some other changes to SoD and other paragon abilites.
As for the cooldown-as far as I can tell from reading and understanding, the cooldown wont be changed much, as it continues to go down the more upgrade points have been invested, so technically it will be even lower than before?
Duelists Flurry: This change is a very weird decision. 100% Blood stack chance is nothing we need. It would usually take 2 to 3 rounds of this ability to reach 10 stacks-with the new changes it will always take 2.(because total cuts have been decreased) Not a big help.
>Reducing the damage by ~40% is also way overboard. This ability used to synergize wonderfully with SoD-(which got nerfed really hard aswell)
Sly Flourish: Obviously not a bad change. It will now take three rotations to get 12% reduction. Thats a good change, as it is an indirect buff. Combined with the changes of Duelists Flurry there was an attempt at balancing, but instead it actually did something that you wanted to fight against-Must have abilities, that are way better than others. Now we got exactly that issue with those 2 Free At-Wills. Sly Flourish seems to outclass Duelists Flurry by alot now
Cloud of Steel: No one plays a ranged TR. This would be a minimal change to some PVP rogues, if even that. I dont see a reason for these changes.
Now for the most questionable changes. I will start with the changes to the Dailys.
Courage Breaker:
>Taking away the 25% bonus Power is an insane change. I am pretty sure reducing enemies damage resistance will not compensate for that. The lost power also has a huge impact on other synergizing effects that grant power.
Whirlwind of Blades: As it is not obvious from the patch notes or from the ingame description of the ability to see how much power that gave before, I cant really say much about that. I will just kindly assume that it was 10% per mob which has been decreased by 2%. A less impactful change, but an unnecessary one nontheless.
-I do understand that the infinite power stacking IS a major reason as to why you decided to change the abilities like you did. I dont understand why the effects of both abilites could not just be made to overwrite each other when used while one is still active.
And now, for the most mind blowing part:
Shadow of Demise.
These changes will make it just as bad, if not worse, as it has been just a couple of Mods ago. I remember the main goal was to adjust TR dps to match other classes dps. Mod 13-14 changes were absolutely amazing and highly enjoyable. It felt balanced and well thought out. Basicly revamping the changes in company with all these other changes is absolutely incomprehensible to me.
There is more minor stuff that will have effects, just as the paragon changes and adjustments, but as mentioned above, I wanted to "briefly" summarize.
I truly hope you will reconsider the changes after reading all these comments of dedicated and desperate Rogue mains. I dont think your goal was to reduce damage of TR's by 50%. I think you wanted to make other paths viable so another kind of playstyle would develope, which would have around the same dps. This is absolutely not the case. Now no path is fully viable anymore.
If these changes go through to global-servers I will feel urged to stop playing again. I had *just* taken a break of the game after the rogue changes somewhere around Mod 10 to 12. I dont want to do that again as I am really enjoying the game at the current state. I have already invested many hundreds since I came back, and I dont want that to feel like an absolute waste of money.
Yours faithfully,
Uburgi, a TR since the first breath of Neverwinter after closed Beta.
And hopefully for many years to come.
Goodbye trickster rogue.
Please take into consideration what @tremeliques#2035 said one first page of comments and what @micky1p00 said on the 3rd page. Both are experienced players who know how the TR class breathes. This feedback is coming from experienced end-game players and our opinion is that these changes are too much of a nerf. Recently i said: TR is fine as long as they dont touch Daily powers and now you touched our Daily powers.
In Janne's(micky) comment there are two TR guides linked, explaining the core mechanics of the class, taking a look at them will help a lot in balancing TR. Using Daily powers often, high AP gain, high Power stat are crucial things for TR class. All our Power stat increasing abilities are removed (WoB, CB, ITC feat) and we are a class which needs the Recovery the most probably and thus unable to have high Power in the first place, with these new changes.
We had far higher Power stat than any other class due to our old Daily versions and we were only significantly stronger than other classes in certain situtation - long fight, which dont exist in end game. Only example is Arcolith IF you dont use Silvering kit. Thats the only place where TR has time to powerloop and overpower other classes easily. Rest of the situations we are having trouble keeping up with HR, GF and GWF since boss fights are too short to gain any advantage with powerstacking and it wasnt done, Lurkers Assault was used instead in combination with one of the WoB/CB.
Like already mentioned, the change to WoB daily is not even half as good as old WoB was. Maximum buff now is 40% while we were able to pull around 90% with old WoB. High power numbers, i know, but thats what was needed for TR to compete with other classes. WoB buff duration also reduced by 2 secs, another thing not going in our favor.
CB changed to 20% DR debuff is not half as good as our old CB was and duration reduced by 2 seconds, dont really mind the duration reduction.
ITC feat no longer giving Power stat either. WoB made CB and ITC give twice more Power than they should have and still it was hard to compete.
Smoke bomb proccing AoC 4 times per tick, too much i know, still not making TR overpowered.
If all of these things didnt make TR brokenly powerful in real end-game fight i wonder what will be left of TR when you strip all these things down. Power removal from Dailies and ITC feat affects our benefit from Artificers persuasion, which we rely heavily upon and the fact that Dailies were nerfed by more than 50%.
AoC making around 50% of our damage with current interaction with Smoke Bomb, huge nerf when this gets fixed.
Less power> less benefit from Artificers>less Dailies> less class features> less stealth and less SoD.
I like what you did with Saboteur and Scoundrel tho.
Duelists flurry, interesting change but wont be used.
With lower benefit from Artificers we will suffer more from longer cooldowns.
Here are some bugs that we encountered.
As mentioned, Smoke bomb triggers AoC 4 times per tick.
Disheartening Strike doesnt have 12% buff in preview if our test is correct.
Blade Flurry is bugged and can be used endlessly, if it happens to not bug out it doesnt give AP gain during hits and only gives 3% when it goes on cooldown. While the damage increase is nice its AP gain is terrible as it ever was and thus wasnt/wont be used. AP gain is not on par with other powers.
Skullcracker effect is realistically not 10 seconds long and down time is longer than 5 seconds. The mark from this capstone gets applied to bosses but its duration is not extended by 4 more seconds from damage done.
Its a capstone with highest down time, needs adjustment.
Gloaming cut animation while not a bug still feels slow.
Please consider removing AP gain block on Lurkers Assault if these changes are going to stay.
ok i might be missing something here but shouldn't combat advantage give a full circle around the mobs feet when granted ? it does with HR using aspect of pack. If this assumption is correct then the TR smokebomb isn't giving combat advantage either straight or stealthed. That would be a bug. Tested on dummies in PE. went stealth and dropped smoke bomb, only quarter arc of blue showed not full circle.
I will try to be as direct as possible and tackle all the changes worth mentioning.
Stealth:
as mentioned before, all the changes wont affect damage potential simply because every tr should be using a daily at least every 10 seconds, this if it wants any type of chance to stay competitive, and said daily would trigger the Invisible Infiltrator feat that would restore your stealth bar.
At-will changes
Duelist's Flurry:
also as said before it takes 2 rotations of the at-will to be able to have the maximum amount of bleed stacks.
on its older version u could get the 10 bleed stacks with 2 rotations of the at-will as well, there are 2 bad things here and one ok-ish.
-bad thing nº 1: the at-will it self ( needed to have around 7 bleed stacks to be comparable with sly flourish in dps wise, now u made it 40% weaker, in other words it ll never be better then sly even at maximum stacks.
-bad thing nº 2: the amount of time that said bleed would last is way to small making the player have to keep using it, doing a full rotation could be enough to make it wear off making it almost worthless since the players has to lose way too much with nothing even worth gaining.
-ok-ish thing: the decrease in the at-will duration, still not enough to make it viable though.
Sly Flourish:
now this at-will will have a 2% bigger debuff on the target, but will take 3 times longer to apply, not a good buff but not a bad one either.
Gloaming Cut:
this power got a really good buff and I can totally start seeing it being used, specially since the class will have to start using more at-wills the choice would be between this power and sly flourish.
Encounter Changes
Smoke Bomb:
there is a lot of dilemma with this power so i ll put topics.
1- Its bugged: the thing is, what makes this power so good is not the power itself, its an interaction where it gets extra procs from aura of courage 4 times for every dmg tick of smoke bomb, in other words even if this power did 0 damage, it would still be used simply because of this bug that hasn't been fixed even tho it has been posted multiple times.
in other words please fix this bug and actually increase the damage from smoke bomb because its damage is not as great as most think.
2-the cool down in the end will be 2 seconds lower that what it used to be but comparing to the cool downs the class lost with all of these changes its a good thought but doesn't make it to be a positive thing in the end.
3-the fact that it only gives combat advantage from stealth its what i call nonsense, as stated on other comments it should have it as a default part of it, just like every other power that can daze targets so please give it another proper effect ( if needed take more of its damage away and make it being able to buff or debuff, something along those lines, it would make tr more useful in parties which is exactly the opposite of what the class is at the moment.
Impossible to Catch:
while talking about this power i ll refer to the feat that also affects it.
as similar to the smoke bomb it now has a lower base cool down compared to before but also suffers the same problem of the class not being able to get as many cool downs, another down-point is the fact that it lost 20% of its up-time, might not be much but it is.
now referring the feat ( Press the Advantage ), this feat used to increase your power buffed power by 10% making it one of the main causes to use impossible to catch in the first place, taking that away and increasing our combat advantage damage by 10%, I'm not sure if this means that it will multiply our existing combat advantage damage by 1.1 or if it will add 10% to the existing amount, this can't be checked simply because combat advantage is broken on preview and doesn't work.
-math ahead:
about the 25% damage resistance and movement increase its not something commenting about since it doesn't really affect game-play that much.
Blade Flurry:
its damage did get increased by a good amount ( someone forgot to mention in the patch notes that the power now increases by 10% instead of 15% on each rank like before :P ), can be used more now but the thing is that we can use a power like dazing strike to hit enemies for even more damage with less then half the cool down and faster animation.
its cool down its still obsolete for something that has a 20 sec cool down giving around 3% action points is laughable, wouldn't use it my self.
Daily Changes( the most important stuff, AKA the core of the class)
Courage Breaker:
soo... this daily used increase our power by 25%, it would fall under the same effect of whirlwind as press the advantage, so with whirlwind hitting 5 targets courage breaker would increase our damage by 50%, yes 50% accounting for 200k buffed power before any power multiplier that would be an increase of around 42% more damage, all from this daily ( half that without the buff form whirlwind).
now it does a mere 20% debuff, for those that don't know if the target has just 100% debuff on it ( u can reach 200% in good parties BTW) that 20% debuff amounts for ONLY a 8% damage increase, once again this is huge difference.
Whirlwind of Blades:
ok, so this ll be the biggest one to try to explain since almost no one knows how it actually works so buckle up.
the old tool tip of this power says that the user gains power for each enemy that is it, not very specific isn't it, well it turns out that it works the same as the dragon born power buff, it acts as a multiplier to the user power instead of just adding it being a multiplier of 20% per target hit, example: u have 100 power, u use the daily and double it getting 200 , but u then proc something that gives you extra 2 power, that extra 2 power will also fall under the daily effect making the used end up with 204.
now a more real and complicated example with values of an usual endgame run:
-math ahead:
also as you can deduce the only thing able to do a power loop doesn't occur with whirlwind and courage breaker it can only occur with press the advantage feat and courage breaker since they are both addictive.
Final notes:
this was only a look at how at-wills, encounters and dailies were affected, this not even accounting for the fact that the loss in damage that the class will have from losing recovery when activating artificers were we get 15% of our power, all of these were the core functions and synergy of the class, please be aware of the changes that weren't accounted for on this TR rework.
If any clarification is needed just ask and I ll try my best to explain it depending on my time.
Thx for reading.
+1000 : D wonderful news
Bait and Switch (Reworked): The decoy will now force enemies to attack it when enemies are tricked (this does not work for Bosses)
does this work on players in pvp ?
> "in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players"
>
> +1000 : D wonderful news
TRs currently barely scratch me 1v1 but this is a second nail in the coffin. Lol.
After reading these changes, I feel like someone hit me a baseball bat in the head
#Emotional_Pain