As long as u have good support that know wat they are doing and the dps knows their stuff tbh u could sub the gf for an hr or tr etc. If a gf misses their timing that's a pretty big lose, time wise we're talking a min or so I guess instead of another dps if they know wat they're doing. Nothing too big, its all about balancing ur party buffs and debuffs. I would personally swap an ac out for a templock in the 1st grp. U get power share from the pally and if everyone is using Shepard's ur good on defense, ac might have ff/exalt but a templock can bring a lot of buffs/debuffs and heals in addition to combat advantage if u don't run a gf as the dps. Last boss with sun sword, the do could swap to ac and double pop dailies when whoever has the sunsword uses that one encounter so hg and as are up. Plus temp lock will usually do more damage than an ac dc.
Here's another question. Can a group of Tank OP and Healer OP with 3 DPS beat 2nd boss CR before it turns into a huge whirlwind of death?
I consider - no, not really. What do you think? The boss would remain with around 23-25% of HP I think.
2 OP and 3 dps? Anything else we need to know? We are willing to prove you wrong so if you have any other special wishes, now is the time.
I fail to see the point of running 2 op in a 5 man... Their power share doesn't stack neither do their aura of wisdom/courage. It just seems pointless to me instead of bringing a dc/mof/temp/gf instead of a healadin when u have an op already.
Hey! its ya boy, random commenter, i dont usually like to talk to walls but this is a pretty one.
about the teams thingy,
1 party : MoF/ Dc /Dc /Gf /Op 2 party : Sw /MoF /SS /Op /Dc
if everyone had like rank 10s and such the second group would be better simply because dc ac is the most gear dependent class IMO, if everyone is maxed out and plays their class to their best possible team 1 would win but the difference shouldn't be much either, probably a few mins like less then 5 min easily, most of said mins would be due to the speed that the gf gives out of battle cuz the most time u waste on a dungeon is just walking from place to place.
and now u wonder, wouldn't gf give more to the party? like wouldn't his burst dmg be good? well here's the thing, u cant skip much on this dungeon, last boss,both teams could one phase it and still have to wait for the mechanic, on the second boss, assuming the best in case scenario with gf i can see a one rotation, for the cw if its not a one rotation wouldn't be much far behind ( this both using silver kit) so lets say like 30secs loss tops, for the first boss should be around the same for both, i guess the gf would one phase the first sister, but would still have to kill the other two normally, lets say that the gf team would beat the other by like 1 min maximum. ( i know , this r lot of assumptions and that i could be totally wrong but from what ive seen so far of how classes play this shouldnt be that far off).
now, if we say that everyone would have rank 10s but everyone still knew how to play their classes the team nº2 would win by far cuz of the reason mentioned above, lets be real, who needs rank 13s? the only one that would actually benefit from it would be dc ac and op a bit less, the rest can have rank 7s the results wont vary much as long as they know what they r doing ( bondings and weapon enchant would the the only enchants that would be nice to get up
P.S.: having 2 dcs at endgame is only beneficial compared to other options IF and only IF one of the dcs has a lot of gear and items invested on it so it can run ac effectively, in other words its performance scales the most with its items, if u wanna compare it with other classes where they can be 13k and run cr without much difference from 16k then sure, go ahead, i dont agree with that tho.
P.S.S.: im a big fan c1k keep up the endgame alive
Here's another question. Can a group of Tank OP and Healer OP with 3 DPS beat 2nd boss CR before it turns into a huge whirlwind of death?
I consider - no, not really. What do you think? The boss would remain with around 23-25% of HP I think.
Was this intended to be taken seriously? Do you actually believe that 3 dps + 2 OPs couldn't beat the second boss?
The folks who are lining up to record a video showing it can be done are right to be confident. I haven't seen that exact composition but I've seen enough no-DC runs to know that it's doable.
And if you use make use of something like the silvering kit, then it will be a burn.
Assuming you were being serious, this is strong evidence that you don't really have a firm grasp on the capabilities of different classes. I want to be respectful, but you continue to claim that you have strong knowledge of this game and then follow up with assertions that indicate quite strongly to the contrary...
Your whole restrictions to the second group sounds like you restrict them further, until someone says, that the first group runs the dungeon in 5 min and for the second group its impossible to complete it. So restrict the second group to "assume all members are lvl 1. Which group will complete the dungeon faster?"
You cant compare an optimized group to a non-optimized group. I mean optimized equipment. A Player, who refuse to optimize the char shouldnt be able to complete a dungeon in a reasonable time like an optimized char.
Heh.
I like how you consider them to be as restricted as LVL 1 chars.
Question is why wouldn't the selected party be viable to play with and manage to beat content better than group 1?
Other players pointed out already, that the 2nd party is viable like the 1st one.
In both cases there are both DC and OP, yet you say how I restricted one group over another by not giving them optimized equipment.
Well, guess what? I shouldn't be giving them optimized equipment in the first case scenario as content should be beaten with any sub-par weapon enchantment without much time/damage penalty.
Why should players, which have invested much in there euipment (better equipment = higher investment) have not an advantage above players, which refuse to do that?
And as other players pointed out this too, there is no such big difference in time and effort.
But this is another case altogether, my specific point was to have class SYNERGY as the main dish here, rather than explaining what each char wears.
Obviously the party 1 wins, but nobody wants to tag along and explain why so in-detail. Only one person did it, but others know or do not want to acknowledge it nor see it as anything bad even though it's a str8 example without much beating around the bush.
And, yeah, LFG is filled with that. How to stop that? That's the question. The question is not whether everyone is optimized with all R13s - R14s etc.
How to stop that? The answer to this question is simple: change the mind of humanity. The misbehave and ignorance of the LFG-caller can't be changed from the devs. It is possible to complete all content with not optimized groups. Yes, it is harder, but not impossible and not by that much, like you want to make believe.
Here's another question. Can a group of Tank OP and Healer OP with 3 DPS beat 2nd boss CR before it turns into a huge whirlwind of death?
Please take my advice, don't actually challenge someone to do that. That would be a piece of cake.
@c1k4ml3kc3 One thing that has been brushed over a few times here is important. I will keep this post short and sweet. It is simple to understand, really. I can also offer a concrete example, and a funny one, to illustrate my point.
Point: Motivation
Right now, motivation is highly lacking in Neverwinter. The hardest available content doesn't require BIS groups, or the "Meta Squad" to complete it.
Cryptic suffers, as a result. Here is why...
This is just one example. The same thing can be said, and proven, in a much more drastic way. Trust me.
There is absolutely no need for a player to upgrade their enchantments past R13s (R13s aren't even remotely necessary). Upgrading just one toon from full R13s to full R14s provides a very marginal gain, and the cost is ASTRONOMICAL. I know a lot of players that choose to stay at R13s, why blame them? What is going to change? The average run time decrease by 20 seconds? What is the point. Some of these players might work full-time jobs, unable to grind like some of us. These players would dish out the $$$$, if it were necessary, but it isn't.
If Cryptic could motivate even 100 players, using at least primarily real money, to upgrade from R13s to R14s...imagine.
Hey Cryptic. If I can do that for you, ^ can I keep 5%?
I would honestly go so far to say that, Cryptic, you are lucky that ANY (non-PvP) players are sporting R14s.
Now, to the final example. A long time ago, I lurked on someone's Twitch stream. It was a awhile ago, right after Mod 14 was released. They had a 4-5 hour video of back to back 20-30 minute CRs.
Here is the kicker...
They opened their inventory, I saw around 10 million AD.
They opened their character sheet. I SAW TWO GREEN WEAPONS (main/off-hand)! LOLOLOL
I was seriously, actually, 100%, without a doubt, laughing. That video was viral worthy.
I'm not going to name any names here, but if you are reading, what a champ.
Well lol I do say this after reading till page 9 I finally realized that @c1k4ml3kc3 hates this game and everyone who doesn't agree with him. Talks in circles and blames everything on everyone else. I log into this site to learn and try to help when I can been playing this game since it launched on xbox. these guys have done nothing but try to help you in every way until you insulted them. by the looks of your huge posts you need to have the last word with everyone that talks to you that must be rough. I guess I should just do you a favor because you have so much more to worry about and flag myself before leaving. I really do hope you get everything figured out
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
edited August 2018
Deviation from topic split into a new discussion, along with some minor cleanup.
I've seen the news that new class balance changes are going to be made in MOD15, and this puts me in a really good mood.
I do not know of all the changes so far, but I hope to see them and get around it.
On another point, my apologies for everyone to whom I haven't answered on their points and arguments. If you'd like me to answer you even though new changes are coming, please say so in the topic.
If anyone else feels like I owe explanation or anything similar, please say so or notify me via private message.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Well lol I do say this after reading till page 9 I finally realized that @c1k4ml3kc3 hates this game and everyone who doesn't agree with him. Talks in circles and blames everything on everyone else
Hahahaha. I also electrify elephants like Thomas Edison, too.
Well, hello to you too! You are correct, I do not agree with your statement that I hate the game or anyone who does not agree with me. I do dislike certain aspects within it, not so different from anyone that you can meet in-game. It's called an opinion.
If I had to choose only one thing I really and actually hate about Neverwinter, that would be its descriptions of powers. It's the one thing that tends to really grind my gears sometimes. But other than that, no, not really. I do not find pleasure in "hate" of anything.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Comments
about the teams thingy,
1 party : MoF/ Dc /Dc /Gf /Op
2 party : Sw /MoF /SS /Op /Dc
if everyone had like rank 10s and such the second group would be better simply because dc ac is the most gear dependent class IMO, if everyone is maxed out and plays their class to their best possible team 1 would win but the difference shouldn't be much either, probably a few mins like less then 5 min easily, most of said mins would be due to the speed that the gf gives out of battle cuz the most time u waste on a dungeon is just walking from place to place.
and now u wonder, wouldn't gf give more to the party? like wouldn't his burst dmg be good? well here's the thing, u cant skip much on this dungeon, last boss,both teams could one phase it and still have to wait for the mechanic, on the second boss, assuming the best in case scenario with gf i can see a one rotation, for the cw if its not a one rotation wouldn't be much far behind ( this both using silver kit) so lets say like 30secs loss tops, for the first boss should be around the same for both, i guess the gf would one phase the first sister, but would still have to kill the other two normally, lets say that the gf team would beat the other by like 1 min maximum. ( i know , this r lot of assumptions and that i could be totally wrong but from what ive seen so far of how classes play this shouldnt be that far off).
now, if we say that everyone would have rank 10s but everyone still knew how to play their classes the team nº2 would win by far cuz of the reason mentioned above, lets be real, who needs rank 13s? the only one that would actually benefit from it would be dc ac and op a bit less, the rest can have rank 7s the results wont vary much as long as they know what they r doing ( bondings and weapon enchant would the the only enchants that would be nice to get up
P.S.: having 2 dcs at endgame is only beneficial compared to other options IF and only IF one of the dcs has a lot of gear and items invested on it so it can run ac effectively, in other words its performance scales the most with its items, if u wanna compare it with other classes where they can be 13k and run cr without much difference from 16k then sure, go ahead, i dont agree with that tho.
P.S.S.: im a big fan c1k keep up the endgame alive
The folks who are lining up to record a video showing it can be done are right to be confident. I haven't seen that exact composition but I've seen enough no-DC runs to know that it's doable.
And if you use make use of something like the silvering kit, then it will be a burn.
Assuming you were being serious, this is strong evidence that you don't really have a firm grasp on the capabilities of different classes. I want to be respectful, but you continue to claim that you have strong knowledge of this game and then follow up with assertions that indicate quite strongly to the contrary...
And as other players pointed out this too, there is no such big difference in time and effort. How to stop that? The answer to this question is simple: change the mind of humanity. The misbehave and ignorance of the LFG-caller can't be changed from the devs. It is possible to complete all content with not optimized groups. Yes, it is harder, but not impossible and not by that much, like you want to make believe.
@c1k4ml3kc3
One thing that has been brushed over a few times here is important. I will keep this post short and sweet. It is simple to understand, really. I can also offer a concrete example, and a funny one, to illustrate my point.
Point: Motivation
Right now, motivation is highly lacking in Neverwinter. The hardest available content doesn't require BIS groups, or the "Meta Squad" to complete it.
Cryptic suffers, as a result. Here is why...
This is just one example. The same thing can be said, and proven, in a much more drastic way. Trust me.
There is absolutely no need for a player to upgrade their enchantments past R13s (R13s aren't even remotely necessary). Upgrading just one toon from full R13s to full R14s provides a very marginal gain, and the cost is ASTRONOMICAL. I know a lot of players that choose to stay at R13s, why blame them? What is going to change? The average run time decrease by 20 seconds? What is the point. Some of these players might work full-time jobs, unable to grind like some of us. These players would dish out the $$$$, if it were necessary, but it isn't.
If Cryptic could motivate even 100 players, using at least primarily real money, to upgrade from R13s to R14s...imagine.
Hey Cryptic. If I can do that for you, ^ can I keep 5%?
I would honestly go so far to say that, Cryptic, you are lucky that ANY (non-PvP) players are sporting R14s.
Now, to the final example. A long time ago, I lurked on someone's Twitch stream. It was a awhile ago, right after Mod 14 was released. They had a 4-5 hour video of back to back 20-30 minute CRs.
Here is the kicker...
They opened their inventory, I saw around 10 million AD.
They opened their character sheet. I SAW TWO GREEN WEAPONS (main/off-hand)! LOLOLOL
I was seriously, actually, 100%, without a doubt, laughing. That video was viral worthy.
I'm
notgoing to name any names here, but if you are reading, what a champ.I really do hope you get everything figured out
I've seen the news that new class balance changes are going to be made in MOD15, and this puts me in a really good mood.
I do not know of all the changes so far, but I hope to see them and get around it.
On another point, my apologies for everyone to whom I haven't answered on their points and arguments. If you'd like me to answer you even though new changes are coming, please say so in the topic.
If anyone else feels like I owe explanation or anything similar, please say so or notify me via private message.
Well, hello to you too! You are correct, I do not agree with your statement that I hate the game or anyone who does not agree with me.
I do dislike certain aspects within it, not so different from anyone that you can meet in-game. It's called an opinion.
If I had to choose only one thing I really and actually hate about Neverwinter, that would be its descriptions of powers. It's the one thing that tends to really grind my gears sometimes. But other than that, no, not really. I do not find pleasure in "hate" of anything.