Ok....MAY...change. At least till you have spent a fortune on upgrading Bondings and enchants to make up for the coming nerf.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited September 2017
I Dissapointed when i saw forghammer of gond in mystik videos. Glad it got fixed. And i am saying this is not nice to promote cw as a class abusing bugs to deal damage.
There are no updated 12b guides (worth looking at) that I am aware of. Quite frankly, unless you are just a copy and paste kind of player, the CW Mechanics Guide from @thefabricant is the best we have at the moment, coupled with being up to speed on the 12/12b changes.
Whether you can call the use of Forgehammer an exploit of a bug or not I cannot say, but at least we have YOU @mamalion1234 to keep us on the moral path of righteousness. I think of it more as an interaction between two mechanics that the devs overlooked and later nerfed,fixed,changed. It certainly was not the reason why the likes of Mystik, Freedom, Sharpie are able to pump out the damage that they do.
Post edited by niadan on
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
There are no updated 12b guides (worth looking at) that I am aware of. Quite frankly, unless you are just a copy and paste kind of player, the CW Mechanics Guide from @thefabricant is the best we have at the moment, coupled with being up to speed on the 12/12b changes.
Whether you can call the use of Firgehammer an exploit of a bug or not I cannot say, but at least we have YOU @mamalion1234 to keep us on the moral path of rightousness. I think of it more as an interaction between two mechanics that the devs overlooked and later nerfed,fixed,changed. It certainly was not the reason why the likes of Mystik, Freedom, Sharpie are able to pump out the damage that they do.
gond made cw to have permanent recovery on power critical build and permanent dailies that result fast completions of any content.( talking only for 1 person i saw to use it let out freedom and sharp)>
AND its too bad that the thing still exists but limited to 10 sec duration and cooldown 60 sec( artificier persuation need tone down my opinion same and for sherped devotion)>
can MoF Rimefire DoT for the 2nd CW to SS proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage?
@ruslan1404#8974 I haven't checked specifically if Rimefire applied by a 2nd CW can proc stuff. The general rule of thumb as pointed out above would be no, but since I haven't checked it specifically I will refrain from giving an answer. This game loves to break that rule every now and again. (Storm Spell offhand bonus can proc itself, Tenebrous enchant can proc off procs.)
can MoF Rimefire DoT for the 2nd CW to SS proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage?
@ruslan1404#8974 I haven't checked specifically if Rimefire applied by a 2nd CW can proc stuff. The general rule of thumb as pointed out above would be no, but since I haven't checked it specifically I will refrain from giving an answer. This game loves to break that rule every now and again. (Storm Spell offhand bonus can proc itself, Tenebrous enchant can proc off procs.)
thanks. I translate and distribute to friends CW in Russia your guide therefore I asked, this is for those who have a bad English
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lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
Just wanted to post that news of another mechanics guide by Sharp brought me back to the game after a 6-8 month hiatus. Glad to see you back to leading the community here. TY for all the work.
Can't believe I've only recently become aware of this piece of work. Perhaps the most in-depth investigation into Neverwinter mechanics ever done?
I have a few questions and hope someone can answer them. They might be very obvious but I better ask and be sure then to keep on wondering.
I am on Xbox so u have to rely on PC testing, to know what's bis as some descriptions don't really make sense.
In the guide it says lighting is best if I use aoe on aoe and bilethorn is best if aoe on single target.
1. At rank 11 and up, bilethorn states that after four seconds it deals damage to nearby enemies, while before it says it takes extra damage after four seconds. Does that mean it only passes on damage after rank 11 or it also passes on the damage?
2. Your primary target is slowed, stacking up to three times. Does that mean the slow stacks up to three times? ... or the entire enchantment does?
3. If I go into a single target fight and I go the extra mile to have a second weapon enchantment in the first place, why wouldn't I switch to single target powers?
Which brings me to my fourth questions...
4. Is bilethorn damage higher on single target fights using aoe, then if I use vorpal, dread or feytouched with single target powers?
Thank you for reading and taking time to answer
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2017
The duration of Combustive Action is increased by 5 seconds by applying it with Oppressive Force.
THat is incorrect the duration extends much lesser than 5 seconds.
here we see 5 sec duration.
here we see 8 sec duration. A friend helped me so i was casting here opressive force and he casting non stop ray of frost.
here we against the golem in elol. 8 sec.
Here a screenshot that shows the ray of frost hit for 5 sec with debuff after ice knife. Yes here we see 5 seconds combustive action
According to above tests vs dummies and non dummies and a test with the combustive with other daily like ice knife, we can see combustive action duration is between 5 and 6 seconds ( combustive tooltip do not say the duration ) and the opressive force do not extend the duration by 5 seconds.
Note an enemy to get the full " extended time " it needs to get hit from all the opressive tics like the golem in screenshot( on dummy maybe miss due dummy dies but vs a very slow monster like that golem and his big size very hard to miss)
P.S. test was without the twisting immolation feat to reflect the guide statement.
In the guide it says lighting is best if I use aoe on aoe and bilethorn is best if aoe on single target.
1. At rank 11 and up, bilethorn states that after four seconds it deals damage to nearby enemies, while before it says it takes extra damage after four seconds. Does that mean it only passes on damage after rank 11 or it also passes on the damage?
Bilethorn is split into two different hits: the initial hit, and after 4 seconds have elapsed, you'll hit them again for a second hit. Or:
When your attack hits a target, you deal 15% of your weapon damage (scales with buffs/debuffs/can crit).
4 seconds afterwards, you'll deal 25% of your weapon damage (scales with buffs/debuffs/sometimes Crits, depending on ability, check page 2 in this thread to figure out which abilities allow the secondary hit to Crit or not).
3. If I go into a single target fight and I go the extra mile to have a second weapon enchantment in the first place, why wouldn't I switch to single target powers?
Yes, you'll want single target powers at the ready.
4. Is bilethorn damage higher on single target fights using aoe, then if I use vorpal, dread or feytouched with single target powers?
Bilethorn inherits the properties of the ability which procs it, so if, say your Ice Knife Crits, then your Bilethorn hits will Crit. If you have Focused Wizardry, your Bilethorn on Disintegrate recieves the Focused Wizardry buff.
Assuming you aren't using Icy Terrain right now, I would personally pick the Feytouched if you have a Paladin.
Feytouched buffs 30%+ of your DPS (Aura of Courage). It is pretty decent with Storm Spell, Disintegrate, and Ice Knife, as well as the rest of the single target abilities.
So, but then, if I switch to single target powers when fighting single mobs like bosses, then it is better to go with vorpal, Fey or dread.
Having 100% critical chance, I understand that Fey is better than vorpal, right? Does that mean Fey is also better than dread?
Thanks again. Great help.
Assuming 100% crit chance, it depends on your crit damage (before vorpal or dread).
Without going into maths, the general idea is:
The more crit damage you have means that adding additional crit damage will impact your overall dps less.
The reason fey is recommended (and I recommend it too) is because CWs actually have large portions our damage damage which cannot crit.
If something cannot crit (storm spell, assailant, aura of courage from a pally), then dread or vorpal doesn't boost it at all.
The bonus from fey however, is a straight damage buff that affects everything. Since we're an encounter heavy class, we have no worries about keeping the fey buff up, thus making it an excellent choice for single target.
Note that if your fey enchant isn't trans, fey does have a cooldown attached to it. The cooldown really kills fey's potential, to the point that vorpal/dread are better than fey up until you get to the trans level.
So has anyone included the items listed in the guide that are broken for the October Bug Fix Month? I noticed some changes to CW but not everything noted in the guide that are listed as broken.
> @dairyzeus said: > Ok, thank you for that info. > > > > So, but then, if I switch to single target powers when fighting single mobs like bosses, then it is better to go with vorpal, Fey or dread. > > > > Having 100% critical chance, I understand that Fey is better than vorpal, right? Does that mean Fey is also better than dread? > > > > Thanks again. Great help. > > Assuming 100% crit chance, it depends on your crit damage (before vorpal or dread). > > Without going into maths, the general idea is: > > The more crit damage you have means that adding additional crit damage will impact your overall dps less. > > The reason fey is recommended (and I recommend it too) is because CWs actually have large portions our damage damage which cannot crit. > > If something cannot crit (storm spell, assailant, aura of courage from a pally), then dread or vorpal doesn't boost it at all. > > The bonus from fey however, is a straight damage buff that affects everything. Since we're an encounter heavy class, we have no worries about keeping the fey buff up, thus making it an excellent choice for single target. > > Note that if your fey enchant isn't trans, fey does have a cooldown attached to it. The cooldown really kills fey's potential, to the point that vorpal/dread are better than fey up until you get to the trans level.
Ok, that helps me to understand the reason behind it. Thank you so much for that
Ice knife proc some of the scaling weapon enchantments 4 times.
Feytouched and holy avenger is not the case.
feytouched 0 procs.
holy avenger 3 procs.
It is easier to write, "Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times," then to write:
"Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times except feytouched since it is a known bug that feytouched does not proc on daily powers and holy avenger since holy avenger has an ICD on the WE proc." If you want specific info like that though, I did list it all here. Those are specific mechanics unique to those 2 enchants which make them behave differently. Every enchant has some minor quirk and I don't really want to clutter my guide by listing all of the quirks. For those people interested in those quirks though, each subsection links to a relevant spreadsheet which should show all of them. Please note however those spreadsheets may be out of date.
Ice knife proc some of the scaling weapon enchantments 4 times.
Feytouched and holy avenger is not the case.
feytouched 0 procs.
holy avenger 3 procs.
It is easier to write, "Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times," then to write:
"Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times except feytouched since it is a known bug that feytouched does not proc on daily powers and holy avenger since holy avenger has an ICD on the WE proc." If you want specific info like that though, I did list it all here. Those are specific mechanics unique to those 2 enchants which make them behave differently. Every enchant has some minor quirk and I don't really want to clutter my guide by listing all of the quirks.
They were known you are saying but i dont see any post here in neverwinter official forums.
Ice knife proc some of the scaling weapon enchantments 4 times.
Feytouched and holy avenger is not the case.
feytouched 0 procs.
holy avenger 3 procs.
It is easier to write, "Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times," then to write:
"Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times except feytouched since it is a known bug that feytouched does not proc on daily powers and holy avenger since holy avenger has an ICD on the WE proc." If you want specific info like that though, I did list it all here. Those are specific mechanics unique to those 2 enchants which make them behave differently. Every enchant has some minor quirk and I don't really want to clutter my guide by listing all of the quirks.
They were known you are saying but i dont see any post here in neverwinter official forums.
It was always there.
I also posted about it on the weapon enchant rework thread ages ago in mod 11.5 and I am sure @rjc9000 mentions some of this stuff in his weapon enchantment guide.
Ice knife proc some of the scaling weapon enchantments 4 times.
Feytouched and holy avenger is not the case.
feytouched 0 procs.
holy avenger 3 procs.
It is easier to write, "Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times," then to write:
"Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times except feytouched since it is a known bug that feytouched does not proc on daily powers and holy avenger since holy avenger has an ICD on the WE proc." If you want specific info like that though, I did list it all here. Those are specific mechanics unique to those 2 enchants which make them behave differently. Every enchant has some minor quirk and I don't really want to clutter my guide by listing all of the quirks.
They were known you are saying but i dont see any post here in neverwinter official forums.
It was always there.
I also posted about it on the weapon enchant rework thread ages ago in mod 11.5 and I am sure @rjc9000 mentions some of this stuff in his weapon enchantment guide.
Ok then. i have a question based on the spreadsheet : You are saying that ice knife proc weapon enchantments 4 times is a bug. Icy storm proc the enchantments 2 times is it normal or a bug?
Ice knife proc some of the scaling weapon enchantments 4 times.
Feytouched and holy avenger is not the case.
feytouched 0 procs.
holy avenger 3 procs.
It is easier to write, "Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times," then to write:
"Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times except feytouched since it is a known bug that feytouched does not proc on daily powers and holy avenger since holy avenger has an ICD on the WE proc." If you want specific info like that though, I did list it all here. Those are specific mechanics unique to those 2 enchants which make them behave differently. Every enchant has some minor quirk and I don't really want to clutter my guide by listing all of the quirks.
They were known you are saying but i dont see any post here in neverwinter official forums.
It was always there.
I also posted about it on the weapon enchant rework thread ages ago in mod 11.5 and I am sure @rjc9000 mentions some of this stuff in his weapon enchantment guide.
Ok then. i have a question based on the spreadsheet : You are saying that ice knife proc weapon enchantments 4 times is a bug. Icy storm proc the enchantments 2 times is it normal or a bug?
Its a bug...
If an ability hits once, it should proc an enchant once.
Comments
And i am saying this is not nice to promote cw as a class abusing bugs to deal damage.
Whether you can call the use of Forgehammer an exploit of a bug or not I cannot say, but at least we have YOU @mamalion1234 to keep us on the moral path of righteousness. I think of it more as an interaction between two mechanics that the devs overlooked and later nerfed,fixed,changed. It certainly was not the reason why the likes of Mystik, Freedom, Sharpie are able to pump out the damage that they do.
AND its too bad that the thing still exists but limited to 10 sec duration and cooldown 60 sec( artificier persuation need
tone down my opinion same and for sherped devotion)>
When procs can proc procs you get into the danger of infinite damage loops and other silly game breaking things.
(not that that's a great example, given how broken it was regardless of class...)
Perhaps the most in-depth investigation into Neverwinter mechanics ever done?
Brilliantly done Sharp!
With great power comes great responsibility!
I have a few questions and hope someone can answer them. They might be very obvious but I better ask and be sure then to keep on wondering.
I am on Xbox so u have to rely on PC testing, to know what's bis as some descriptions don't really make sense.
In the guide it says lighting is best if I use aoe on aoe and bilethorn is best if aoe on single target.
1. At rank 11 and up, bilethorn states that after four seconds it deals damage to nearby enemies, while before it says it takes extra damage after four seconds. Does that mean it only passes on damage after rank 11 or it also passes on the damage?
2. Your primary target is slowed, stacking up to three times. Does that mean the slow stacks up to three times? ... or the entire enchantment does?
3. If I go into a single target fight and I go the extra mile to have a second weapon enchantment in the first place, why wouldn't I switch to single target powers?
Which brings me to my fourth questions...
4. Is bilethorn damage higher on single target fights using aoe, then if I use vorpal, dread or feytouched with single target powers?
Thank you for reading and taking time to answer
THat is incorrect the duration extends much lesser than 5 seconds.
here we see 5 sec duration.
here we see 8 sec duration. A friend helped me so i was casting here opressive force and he casting non stop ray of frost.
here we against the golem in elol. 8 sec.
Here a screenshot that shows the ray of frost hit for 5 sec with debuff after ice knife.
Yes here we see 5 seconds combustive action
According to above tests vs dummies and non dummies and a test with the combustive with other daily like ice knife,
we can see combustive action duration is between 5 and 6 seconds ( combustive tooltip do not say the duration ) and the opressive force do not extend the duration by 5 seconds.
Note an enemy to get the full " extended time " it needs to get hit from all the opressive tics like the golem in screenshot( on dummy maybe miss due dummy dies but vs a very slow monster like that golem and his big size very hard to miss)
P.S. test was without the twisting immolation feat to reflect the guide statement.
@spideymt, a certain egghead is stealing your name! Bilethorn is split into two different hits: the initial hit, and after 4 seconds have elapsed, you'll hit them again for a second hit. Or:
When your attack hits a target, you deal 15% of your weapon damage (scales with buffs/debuffs/can crit).
4 seconds afterwards, you'll deal 25% of your weapon damage (scales with buffs/debuffs/sometimes Crits, depending on ability, check page 2 in this thread to figure out which abilities allow the secondary hit to Crit or not).
Yes, you'll want single target powers at the ready. Bilethorn inherits the properties of the ability which procs it, so if, say your Ice Knife Crits, then your Bilethorn hits will Crit. If you have Focused Wizardry, your Bilethorn on Disintegrate recieves the Focused Wizardry buff.
Assuming you aren't using Icy Terrain right now, I would personally pick the Feytouched if you have a Paladin.
Feytouched buffs 30%+ of your DPS (Aura of Courage). It is pretty decent with Storm Spell, Disintegrate, and Ice Knife, as well as the rest of the single target abilities.
So, but then, if I switch to single target powers when fighting single mobs like bosses, then it is better to go with vorpal, Fey or dread.
Having 100% critical chance, I understand that Fey is better than vorpal, right? Does that mean Fey is also better than dread?
Thanks again. Great help.
Without going into maths, the general idea is:
The more crit damage you have means that adding additional crit damage will impact your overall dps less.
The reason fey is recommended (and I recommend it too) is because CWs actually have large portions our damage damage which cannot crit.
If something cannot crit (storm spell, assailant, aura of courage from a pally), then dread or vorpal doesn't boost it at all.
The bonus from fey however, is a straight damage buff that affects everything. Since we're an encounter heavy class, we have no worries about keeping the fey buff up, thus making it an excellent choice for single target.
Note that if your fey enchant isn't trans, fey does have a cooldown attached to it. The cooldown really kills fey's potential, to the point that vorpal/dread are better than fey up until you get to the trans level.
> Ok, thank you for that info.
>
>
>
> So, but then, if I switch to single target powers when fighting single mobs like bosses, then it is better to go with vorpal, Fey or dread.
>
>
>
> Having 100% critical chance, I understand that Fey is better than vorpal, right? Does that mean Fey is also better than dread?
>
>
>
> Thanks again. Great help.
>
> Assuming 100% crit chance, it depends on your crit damage (before vorpal or dread).
>
> Without going into maths, the general idea is:
>
> The more crit damage you have means that adding additional crit damage will impact your overall dps less.
>
> The reason fey is recommended (and I recommend it too) is because CWs actually have large portions our damage damage which cannot crit.
>
> If something cannot crit (storm spell, assailant, aura of courage from a pally), then dread or vorpal doesn't boost it at all.
>
> The bonus from fey however, is a straight damage buff that affects everything. Since we're an encounter heavy class, we have no worries about keeping the fey buff up, thus making it an excellent choice for single target.
>
> Note that if your fey enchant isn't trans, fey does have a cooldown attached to it. The cooldown really kills fey's potential, to the point that vorpal/dread are better than fey up until you get to the trans level.
Ok, that helps me to understand the reason behind it. Thank you so much for that
MY tests:
Ice knife proc some of the scaling weapon enchantments 4 times.
Feytouched and holy avenger is not the case.
feytouched 0 procs.
holy avenger 3 procs.
"Ice knife procs weapon enchantments 4 times except feytouched since it is a known bug that feytouched does not proc on daily powers and holy avenger since holy avenger has an ICD on the WE proc." If you want specific info like that though, I did list it all here. Those are specific mechanics unique to those 2 enchants which make them behave differently. Every enchant has some minor quirk and I don't really want to clutter my guide by listing all of the quirks. For those people interested in those quirks though, each subsection links to a relevant spreadsheet which should show all of them. Please note however those spreadsheets may be out of date.
It was always there.
I also posted about it on the weapon enchant rework thread ages ago in mod 11.5 and I am sure @rjc9000 mentions some of this stuff in his weapon enchantment guide.
You are saying that ice knife proc weapon enchantments 4 times is a bug.
Icy storm proc the enchantments 2 times is it normal or a bug?
If an ability hits once, it should proc an enchant once.